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DLCC Exec Director beautifully schools Jon Favreau on Democratic Party successes (Original Post) ehrnst Apr 2018 OP
"I love facts - tasty tasty facts" R Burgandy (maybe) The Polack MSgt Apr 2018 #1
So the Democratic Party ISN'T a "failure?" EffieBlack Apr 2018 #6
Post removed Post removed Apr 2018 #10
That poll is from February 2017, just weeks after the inauguration. Got a current one or... George II Apr 2018 #13
better than bad is not health Egnever Apr 2018 #17
So what do you think is wrong with the Democratic Party? (nt) ehrnst Apr 2018 #23
And less than perfect isn't "failure." EffieBlack Apr 2018 #25
To the dualistic worldview there is no in-between. (nt) ehrnst Apr 2018 #33
But in the real world, the in-between is just about the whole thing. EffieBlack Apr 2018 #35
Yes, that's reality. (nt) ehrnst Apr 2018 #37
Absolutely true Egnever Apr 2018 #47
I was referring to a comment made by one of our "allies" a couple of weeks ago. EffieBlack Apr 2018 #48
You know that people can read your posts, don't you? ehrnst Apr 2018 #51
Interesting! cilla4progress Apr 2018 #2
I really wish it were titled differently - "how to get the Dem.Party ready for the mid-terms" or flygal Apr 2018 #3
Yep. (nt) ehrnst Apr 2018 #14
I hate all these guys that start off with "What's wrong with the Democratic Party?" George II Apr 2018 #4
What makes anyone an expert Egnever Apr 2018 #8
That doesn't make one an expert on the party, just the part of the administration ehrnst Apr 2018 #11
ok again what makes one an expert? Egnever Apr 2018 #12
I wasn't calling anyone an expert. Perhaps you are confusing me with another poster. ehrnst Apr 2018 #20
ok Egnever Apr 2018 #22
That's a vague question. ehrnst Apr 2018 #24
Are you asking me what makes one an expert on the Democratic party? ehrnst Apr 2018 #26
what a silly response Egnever Apr 2018 #40
What a silly evasion of a question. ehrnst Apr 2018 #50
You zooooomed right past my first sentence. Do you like people dwelling on "what's wrong".... George II Apr 2018 #16
I appreciate people willing to recognize reality Egnever Apr 2018 #21
So who are those who "aren't willing to recognize reality?" ehrnst Apr 2018 #27
Seems like the person who supposedly schooled faverau Egnever Apr 2018 #32
How is it that she's "not seeing reality?" ehrnst Apr 2018 #36
it's right here Egnever Apr 2018 #39
Not seeing where that makes her tweet "not seeing reality" ehrnst Apr 2018 #41
K&R for Jessica Post... sheshe2 Apr 2018 #5
How was he schooled? Egnever Apr 2018 #7
Here's a link to the full tweet by Favreau that she was responding to: ehrnst Apr 2018 #9
If that's the case her tweet reads as if she didn't even read the article. Egnever Apr 2018 #15
I believe that she was pointing out the omission of the state legislative chamber ehrnst Apr 2018 #19
But she is wrong Egnever Apr 2018 #29
In what way is she "wrong and horribly so." ehrnst Apr 2018 #31
again winning races does not indicate the health of the party Egnever Apr 2018 #38
So tell me again - where is she "missing reality" in her post? ehrnst Apr 2018 #42
I have spelled it out in multiple posts in this thread Egnever Apr 2018 #44
No, you haven't explained how her tweet is "horribly wrong" ehrnst Apr 2018 #46
Her tweet doesn't say a thing about Hillary or the party Egnever Apr 2018 #43
Are you saying that she's wrong about the races that we won? ehrnst Apr 2018 #45
Hillary Won that's self-evident.. for anyone who's been Cha Apr 2018 #59
What is wrong with the Democratic Party? NewJeffCT Apr 2018 #18
"Democrats are never as organized as Republicans " EffieBlack Apr 2018 #28
I agree with that Egnever Apr 2018 #30
Agreed. I love finding common ground. EffieBlack Apr 2018 #34
Democrats certainly have a different constituency that they have to convince, whereas the Republican JCanete Apr 2018 #57
Yes! And add in Russia Today as another anti/Democrat R B Garr Apr 2018 #49
And yet they rarely address thing one and two that you stated. They don't make a clean break from JCanete Apr 2018 #56
The same Favreau whose claim to fame was "cupping" the breast of Hillary question everything Apr 2018 #52
Yep. Says so much, doesn't it? (nt) ehrnst Apr 2018 #53
I would absolutely LOVE to have the "what is wrong with the D party" Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #54
Very well articulated. (nt) ehrnst Apr 2018 #55
Thank you, Jessica Post! Big Doses of Reality.. always Cha Apr 2018 #58

The Polack MSgt

(13,188 posts)
1. "I love facts - tasty tasty facts" R Burgandy (maybe)
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 10:36 AM
Apr 2018

we have flipped 39 state leg seats and a state legislative chamber since Trump.

That is some tasty facts

Response to EffieBlack (Reply #6)

George II

(67,782 posts)
13. That poll is from February 2017, just weeks after the inauguration. Got a current one or...
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 12:06 PM
Apr 2018

....the republican side of the polls?

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
17. better than bad is not health
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 12:11 PM
Apr 2018

and the last data point is june 2017 after the election and trump in office and the trend is down.

The republicans are in worse shape https://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/republican-party-favorable-rating

but again better than bad is not health.

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
47. Absolutely true
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 12:53 PM
Apr 2018

John never called the democratic party a failure. Nor do I.

We clearly have work to do on many fronts though and the idea this person somehow schooled him because he wants to reach out and find ways to help improve the party is ridiculous.
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
51. You know that people can read your posts, don't you?
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 01:06 PM
Apr 2018

Didn't call the Democratic party a failure?

cilla4progress

(24,733 posts)
2. Interesting!
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 10:48 AM
Apr 2018

Heard him discuss his planned docupod series on Pod Save America yesterday. Plan to call in..Love that podcast!

flygal

(3,231 posts)
3. I really wish it were titled differently - "how to get the Dem.Party ready for the mid-terms" or
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 11:19 AM
Apr 2018

something more positive. Forward thinking. You know, progressive.

George II

(67,782 posts)
4. I hate all these guys that start off with "What's wrong with the Democratic Party?"
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 11:19 AM
Apr 2018

Almost as though there's nothing RIGHT with the Democratic Party. What makes Jon Favreau an expert on the Democratic Party anyway?

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
11. That doesn't make one an expert on the party, just the part of the administration
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 11:59 AM
Apr 2018

that one is in.

There is a difference.

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
12. ok again what makes one an expert?
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 12:04 PM
Apr 2018

he worked in the white house he worked Obamas campaign almost from the beginning he has since launched a successful podcast network that focuses on politics and the Dem party.

what in your mind makes one an expert?

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
20. I wasn't calling anyone an expert. Perhaps you are confusing me with another poster.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 12:14 PM
Apr 2018

I simply pointed out that serving in an administration doesn't make one an expert in party leadership.

Is that clearer?

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
26. Are you asking me what makes one an expert on the Democratic party?
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 12:21 PM
Apr 2018

Or an expert in general?

And expert in the party history?

An expert on election strategy?

An expert on policy?

Again.... expertise can be specific, and simply participating isn't enough to make one "an expert."

Which may have many different nuances and definitions.

Please be specific.

Vague questions don't show one has put much thought into a concept, but rather simply challenging another person, and leaving room to change the goal posts.

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
40. what a silly response
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 12:36 PM
Apr 2018

seems you don't want to answer the question

What makes one an expert on the democratic party?

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
50. What a silly evasion of a question.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 01:03 PM
Apr 2018

You might as well ask, "What makes one an expert on families?"

Can't answer the question, so you call the person asking silly.

One can't articulate an emotional response, so it's not surprising one one can't even clarify one's question.

George II

(67,782 posts)
16. You zooooomed right past my first sentence. Do you like people dwelling on "what's wrong"....
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 12:10 PM
Apr 2018

....rather than what's right? To me and many that gives the impression that nothing is good or right.

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
21. I appreciate people willing to recognize reality
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 12:18 PM
Apr 2018

And work towards fixing it which is what Jon is trying to do.

I don't agree with everything he says but I do appreciate that he is actually looking to get input and work towards improvement instead of pretending that because we are winning elections currently in the face of Trump somehow everything is ok.

Trump will be gone eventually and what bogyman will we rely on then? I would much rather we don't bury our head in the sand and pretend everything is just peachy because we are currently winning elections.

The public overall is not happy with either party and if we don't do some serious soul searching and do something about it we will be right back to losing in no time.

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
32. Seems like the person who supposedly schooled faverau
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 12:28 PM
Apr 2018


The party is in trouble despite the wins we are currently getting. We are winning right now because trump is that bad. His party is not turning out and ours is. That is not a recipe for long term success.
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
36. How is it that she's "not seeing reality?"
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 12:31 PM
Apr 2018

I think that her vantage point as DLCC Exec Director gives her a much broader and more accurate view of the upcoming elections, and what is going right and wrong in reality.

What expertise do you have concerning the Democratic Party that allows you to "see reality" concerning the state of Democratic candidates more so than Post?

What part of this is "not seeing reality?"

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
41. Not seeing where that makes her tweet "not seeing reality"
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 12:37 PM
Apr 2018

Can you specify where she "misses reality" in her tweet?



Or is it the fact that she's not bashing the party that she's "not seeing reality?"

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
7. How was he schooled?
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 11:52 AM
Apr 2018

Not seeing it.

Wins do not mean the democratic party has no issues. It just means the other party is worse.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
9. Here's a link to the full tweet by Favreau that she was responding to:
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 11:57 AM
Apr 2018

The article that he is referencing is what her response is about.

I hope that clarifies things.


 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
15. If that's the case her tweet reads as if she didn't even read the article.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 12:06 PM
Apr 2018

the first paragraph..

Maybe you feel pretty good about the 43 seats Democrats have flipped in the elections that have been held since 2016. Maybe you’re confident in the seven-point lead Democrats hold in the generic House ballot. Maybe you’re buoyed by the surge in grassroots activism and first-time candidates, and believe the energy we’ve seen from the Women’s March to the March for Our lives will translate into the votes we need to take back Congress, and ultimately the White House.



Meanwhile
https://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/democratic-party-favorable-rating

The Dem party is in trouble. Just not as much as the Republicans https://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/republican-party-favorable-rating and absent another party that might be enough but healthy it ain't.


 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
19. I believe that she was pointing out the omission of the state legislative chamber
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 12:12 PM
Apr 2018

And politely dealing with the bashing of Hillary and the party later in the article - if you read down a little.

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
29. But she is wrong
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 12:24 PM
Apr 2018

and horribly so.

We are currently winning mostly because people are so repulsed by Trump. His party turnout is depressed and ours is energized. It is not because we are in good health we are just not as bad as the other guy and our base is motivated.

When trump is gone that motivation will be gone and if we don't do something to work on our favorability as a party in general we will be right back to losing.

Jon was nice and didn't push back but he was not schooled by any means. If anything it seems to be a warning sign that this woman is not doing much more than cheer leading and that is a problem.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
31. In what way is she "wrong and horribly so."
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 12:27 PM
Apr 2018

I'm not seeing that she is.

I would think that being the executive director of the DLCC gives her access to way more expertise (that word again...) than someone who is not, concerning data and strategy on the upcoming races, realistically speaking.

Don't you?

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
38. again winning races does not indicate the health of the party
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 12:34 PM
Apr 2018

and yet again we are currently winning because the republican party is losing, That will not last that is not long term health. That is purely a function of Trump.

Our base is motivated because Trump and the republicans are such a shit show right now. Their base is currently depressed for the same reason.

Meanwhile both parties are horribly unpopular.

We need to fix ours. This person (and you) seems to think that cause we are currently winning everything is just great and it most certainly is not.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
42. So tell me again - where is she "missing reality" in her post?
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 12:40 PM
Apr 2018

And please define "health of the party" if it doesn't include winning races, and why her tweet "misses reality."

Are her statistics wrong? Where is she "horribly wrong" in that tweet?

You still haven't specified that.

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
44. I have spelled it out in multiple posts in this thread
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 12:43 PM
Apr 2018

if you haven't got it by now you never will.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
46. No, you haven't explained how her tweet is "horribly wrong"
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 12:47 PM
Apr 2018

or how she "misses reality" by giving statistics, offering updated ones and offering to go on his podcast.

Just a bunch of vague proclamations that you are the only one here who "sees reality," asking people repeatedly about what "makes an expert?"

Apparently anyone who isn't bashing the Democratic party as "a failure" fits the description of "missing reality" and is "horribly wrong" where you are concerned, even if you can't articulate why.

Especially if they have some real expertise on how things are going in elections around the country - which you say is "no indication of the health of the party."

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
43. Her tweet doesn't say a thing about Hillary or the party
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 12:41 PM
Apr 2018

only winning!

the rest is your own projection.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
45. Are you saying that she's wrong about the races that we won?
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 12:44 PM
Apr 2018

She's offering to talk with him, as someone who is up to speed on nationwide elections and strategy - which is her job.

The article bashes the party, and peripherally Hillary, and she is offering her actual expertise to him, as he is asking the general public to do.

Is that clearer?

I think your "she's wrong and horribly so" is the projection.

Cha

(297,232 posts)
59. Hillary Won that's self-evident.. for anyone who's been
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:09 PM
Apr 2018

following how it was stolen from her and us.

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
18. What is wrong with the Democratic Party?
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 12:12 PM
Apr 2018

1) They don't have huge media conglomerates dedicated to bashing the other side 24/7/365 like Republicans have with talk radio, Fox News, One America, Sinclair and a large majority of the country's newspapers. You live in Small Town USA and hear nothing but Fox News and RW radio for 20 years, and it takes its toll.
2) They don't have megabucks donors dedicated to destroying the other side by throwing hundreds of millions of dollars at elections like Republicans have with the Koch Brothers and others (is Richard Mellon Scaife still around?) Sure, George Soros gave a few million to MoveOn in 2004 and a few million more a few years later, but those donations are what the Kochs give monthly, not to mention Sheldon Adelson and others also giving.
3) Democrats are never as organized as Republicans - it's almost impossible for Democrats to get out and repeat the same talking points like Republicans do all the damn time.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
28. "Democrats are never as organized as Republicans "
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 12:24 PM
Apr 2018

I think it's less about being less organized than it is about being both honest and diverse. We have and respect different perspectives and views and we don't march around in lockstep lying our asses off because that's the party line. That makes it much harder to present a cohesive message - but it also makes us not be lying demagogues willing to say and do anything it takes to win.

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
30. I agree with that
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 12:26 PM
Apr 2018

the Dem party trying to play fair is a big disadvantage but not one I would give up.

 

JCanete

(5,272 posts)
57. Democrats certainly have a different constituency that they have to convince, whereas the Republican
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 02:16 PM
Apr 2018

constituency ranges from those who aren't particularly sophisticated to those who don't care that their politicians are lying so long as they win. I'd say that's what makes it easy for republicans to appear to be organized. They are lazy ass motherfuckers, and they'll say shit that pops into their head off the cuff and they don't even maintain a consistency at an individual level, let alone a party level, but they can suddenly pretend like we were always at war with East Asia and nobody will bat an eye. They aren't beholden to what they said last week, let alone what they said or voted for a year or years back.

R B Garr

(16,954 posts)
49. Yes! And add in Russia Today as another anti/Democrat
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 12:56 PM
Apr 2018

media drone. Constant undermining and badmouthing, and Democrats are still winning.

 

JCanete

(5,272 posts)
56. And yet they rarely address thing one and two that you stated. They don't make a clean break from
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 02:08 PM
Apr 2018

the megabucks that aren't really serving them anyway. They don't call out the media as a corporate tool. And pointing to the fact that Trump is finally winning us elections doesn't necessarily speak to us doing things right.

Eliot Rosewater

(31,112 posts)
54. I would absolutely LOVE to have the "what is wrong with the D party"
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 01:36 PM
Apr 2018

conversation the same way I would LOVE to discuss what color to paint my kitchen walls, but NOT until I put the fire out in the living room.

Jon is a good guy, worked for Obama, etc. He is youthful and might want to remind people that no matter what he thinks is wrong, that everybody must vote for Democrats no matter what.

Cha

(297,232 posts)
58. Thank you, Jessica Post! Big Doses of Reality.. always
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 06:37 PM
Apr 2018

the healthy way to go!

Thanks for Jessica, ehrnst!

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