Frustrated by those who seem to not be interested in that.

Too much too soon too late not enough.....


Looks like someone was planning on making several columns on this and her apology took the wind out of their sails

you know who.

Or we'll be here all day. Don't worry about all the glass around. Your house will be fine.

Your focus on this issue seems really odd to me.

and over.

It makes one wonder.

We all would, if we thought about it.

You solved the age old dilemma about "conservatives?"

So what are they? Stupid? Or are they liars?

Sorry for being a cryptic. Feel free to read between the lines. We agree.

Just expanding on what you said between those lines.

I make no claim of ownership, nor leadership.

Should also be noted that DU isn't falling for it. Lots of responses and zero recs

Don't you wish we could not g the unrec back?

Was all the rage in certain quarters.

Good lord people!

And if you don't see that, I think you might not understand the situation we are in.

And I assuming here you actually want to defeat the Republicans.

I love her, but don't let her lying become normalized too.

Public flogging?

Walk of shame?

Fire her?

What would satisfy you?

Just because it's our strong voices m as king the mistake.

You don't anyways have to punish bad behavior.

YMMV, of course, but I do not see any benefit to continuing to try and embarrass her over things she said quite a few years ago, unless the goal is to weaken her voice.

Last edited Mon Apr 30, 2018, 01:55 PM - Edit history (1)

Including calling out dishonesty among our best voices.

It gives us strength.

It teaches us how to be even stronger.

For example, Michelle Wolfe can be criticized from the left for her eye makeup joke not because it was an attack on her appearance (it was not) but because it could be easily claimed to be about appearance.

Almost all of her other jokes were amazing. The impact was weakened by the one joke that wasn't thoroughly considered.

That other- basically good people, mind you- made and or make mistakes? That blows my mind. RWers are deliberately twisting words and we should go along with it? I guess we should also pretend none of them are on the Joy reid outrage train?

It is a lle and i'm not bolstering it. I'm articulating how Michelle can be an even stronger voice. Joy can also be an even stronger voice.

We are all stronger by being our best selves. By confronting the opponents easiest criticism of us and strengthening that.

I agree with your instincts to protect our best voices. We desperately need them right now. Including Joy and Michelle.

... correct the record by confronting the rw liars and recognize where they found the opportunity for the lie to stick (a joke that was hard to follow and included a detail on her appearance) . We should become stronger by accepting constructive criticism from our own side that can be valuable in strengthening us.

About appearance! Is it possible she doesn’t get the double entendres about “softballs” and divisiveness in the press room? Doubtful.

Last edited Mon Apr 30, 2018, 04:14 PM - Edit history (1)

I assumed it was a gym teacher reference.

Awesome, but hard to follow.

Take responsibility for it. Her past is her past. Own it.
She's obviously grown, as a person, and doesn't hold the views of her past. Her actions are what matters.

This is neither ownership of her past nor an apology.

“Here’s what I know, I genuinely do not believe I wrote those hateful things because they are completely alien to me, but I can definitely understand based on things I have tweeted and I have written in the past why some people don’t believe me,"

it's very similar to the old "if I offended you, I'm sorry"...like if you weren't offended the person isn't sorry for what they did/said?

Own it. Apologize and move on.

She's not going to lose her job, nor should she. But don't sit there an lie about being hacked and put the blame on the people who don't believe her lie.

Not recognizing the words as her own don't make them someone else's.
She wasn't hacked. People aren't making believe she wrote what she wrote.
She wrote it. No one else wrote it. It wasn't a conspiracy to make her look bad. She wrote those words.

Own that shit and move on.

By everything I've read, she has owned it and apologized.

the story's over.

I'm still disappointed she still won't take responsibility for her own words.

At least we got a break from Bernie.

Makes her going with the "my blog was hacked" excuse all the more disappointing, but I'm sure my concern about that has been noted.

Or have you transitioned straight from her being hacked and the victim of right-wing lies to “she apologized... why are you still upset”?

Nothing if not entertaining... but some self-reflection could be appropriate at this time.

The points have been made.


Won't you finally let the blowflies and scavenger beetles finally have their day) and that poor carcass be laid to rest?

Did you seriously just post "undeserved accusations toward fellow DUers continue to be slung" ???

Or maybe someone hacked your DU account?

I was basically called a right-wing shill for not believing her hacking story. In a bold moment of irony, I was told I didn't understand how the internet worked when I said it would be near impossible to hack the multiple internet archive stores of her blog.

But now that it is clear that she was lying about the "hacking," it's all good and "don't beat a dead horse."

Frankly, fuck that. Until those that defended her and accused anyone who doubted the story of being a right-wing, racist, misogynist apologize for the way they treated those that dared to actually question what was, frankly, a laughable lie about hacking, I think it's fair to say this.

We can't just let people slide because they are on the left. Do I have a problem with Joy and want to see here gone? No. Of course not. Do I want to give her a pass for lying? Hell no. She had the perfect opportunity to talk about her growth as a human and how she regrets the views she held a decade ago and what she has learned in that decade. But, no, "I was hacked."

And even now, it's "well, I guess I wasn't hacked but I don't really remember writing those things." Uggh. We would never accept that from someone on the right; we shouldn't accept it from our own.

for the past two weeks.

But it gets a little disingenuous when last week was spent telling anyone that questioned Joy to just shut up and when it becomes clear we were right about it all that, once again, we are being told to shut up. Seems like a weird way to make the party bigger and stronger. Saying "I was wrong; shouldn't have said those things" would go a long way.

support of the LGBT community.

Oh wait... it appears that the hacking is more profound than we thought.

For the record... I don't think I've ever seen her show and have never formed an opinion about her at all.

I'm just not a fan of lying... even by progressives... or a fan of those knee-jerks who assume that there are no lying progressives and even the most obvious cases must be right-wing propaganda being used to hurt our own. Especially when they're incapable of admitting their mistakes (while continuing to imply that those were had the correct read on the subject are NOW right-wing propaganda because they can't "let it go&quot .

Second, what supporters of the LGBT community didn’t do was post nasty jokes and slurs about our fellow human beings who belong to that community.. I know I never did. It’s nothing I have to remember, I never did it.

Joy is a journalist, and a damn good one, but I’m disappointed she chose to lie. She’s definitely one of the best out there.

are not only NOT supporters of the LGBT community but are very ANTI LGBT.

Are there liberal gay people and for that matter conservative gay people who are hurt, angry at Joy over this? Yep, I am not addressing them.

I am addressing the FAKE "concerned" people out there and they are EVERYWHERE.

Jeez Louis...

hack her down.

Afraid of the truth.

People abuse the "no interference forum moderation" alerts and juries read posts about alerts being called at all as a violation.

I tried to do an ATA regarding this but Skinner apparently has no opinion, so post about jury service at your peril.

Should DU be reduced to: "Trump is a MORON!" and "+1000" posts and responses?

Her apology seems to have been accepted by the slighted community. We are better than republicansbuts its way past time for what's good for the goose is good for the gander. As long as they can keep grifters, sexual devients, conmen and other pieces of reprobate trash in all manners of influential positions without answering for it. There is no longer to keep blunting our weapons to maintain a moral high ground that the other side cares nothing about.

We will never be them, our goals are completely incompatible with being what the GOP and their ilk has become. When they decide they want to return to the stage of decentcy we can meet them there, but as long as they are embracing the ugliness directly or remaining silent, then they are complicit and should not pretend they have a horse to be high on about the garbage words that have come out of any bodies mouth at any point past or present.

You would be absolutely correct IF that’s what happened when the story first came out.

The extended run of “someone else hacked my account... I never said that” is not irrelevant.

On top of that... we should consider how bad she mad her defenders look in the process.

With our government? Who's going to call all of them out for crying economic anxiety rather than we hate all brown and black folks? Anybody, nah well get another think piece about how it isn't their fault. If you want to cut down one of are best voices for employing the same tactics the other side has used effectively to get us into this mess then you do it. Unfortunately we don't have time to be 100% pure while the world burns. We'll have to make do with 90% and a second chance.

Surely it can't be that progressives should accept any behavior that is "not as bad as Trump"?

that I didn't make clear.

a mistake was made and sitting around arguing the finer points of it isn't going to get anything done. Now, pretend you don't know what my point is and continue your trolling without me.

No one gives a shit WHAT she said a decade ago, they care that she LIED about it.
Kinda breaks the trust one has with someone who is supposed to report the TRUTH.

Has nothing to do with the GOP.

Please be specific.

You asked for, and got, exactly what her lie was. Is it your position that the DU post was also a hack (again this was a verbatim quote)? She clearly was putting the Hardaway post in the category of posts which had been altered. Equally clearly that didn't happen. That is a lie by pretty much any definition of the word.

I asked you a question. You answered it. End of discussion.

If you’re looking for a fight, I suggest you look elsewhere. I’m not biting.

dedicated to LGBT causes.

No, I dont wonder, I know the answer.

Look, Joy is a woman, she is black AND she is anti Rump. I am surprised they havent accused her of being the mother of some alien race by now. Oh, she is anti ONE other person as well, which is the main reason for all this.

I have been an out teacher in less than terrific schools to be one for several years.

THAT was a lie.

Republicans get. Look at how Franken was railroaded on allegations while Republicans can be caught red handed in real time. Yet some how Republicans stick around trying to outrun the backlash. I don't pretend to know what she was thinking but I don't doubt it probably played a part.

Fuck the GOP. This has nothing to do with them. This has to do with someone breaking the public’s trust. She lied. End. Of. Story.

political insights. She's a presenter and you should probably redirect that end.of.story outrage at the folks that broke the public trust by allowing trump and his people unfettered access to cripple this country. That would be the GOP and the folks that run the networks(most likely republican).

and the GOP for lying, too?

I do not walk in lockstep with anyone. Reid is supposed to be a truth teller. She lied. She has not apologized for lying. No one gets a free pass just because they’re a Democrat. Blind ideology is bad, no matter what side is practicing it.

You can live in your bubble, but I refuse to blindly follow anyone just because their politics agree with mine. That’s what Republicans do.

hacked don't...care. And I believe it was a collection of the far right joined by far left who attempted to take Joy out because she is effective...with the Russia story, and she had the nerve to criticize Sen. Sanders...getting her a tongue lashing from Jane Sanders...so a big who cares...made sure to watch her show both Saturday and Sunday.

The fact that so many are glossing over that part of what she said is the same kind of blind eye-ism we accuse the right of.

It's an uphill battle, with the non-stop lies and attacks on the media from the Trump admin... When our own are lying, they should be called out. Every time.

My sentiments exactly.

Thank you for sharing it!

Last edited Mon Apr 30, 2018, 03:11 PM - Edit history (1)

Lots of info there to digest. Just want to see exactly what you want her to do now.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210546080

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142046369

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210552228

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210542398

In terms of what I would want her to do now, I've already mentioned that in several of my threads on the subject.

Acknowledge that the blog posts were not hacked and apologize for stating otherwise.

That's pretty much the central point that everyone who is taking any issue with any of this is making.

The hallmark of any good discussion forum member.

The idea that this shames "conservatives" has been debunked, has it not?

Ok so Joy made a few mistakes. Who hasn't? Are you going to seriously try to tell me she's as atrocious as "conservatives?"

The only thing I have any issue with is the dubious claim of her blog being hacked.

This is a excess we can ill afford, and this has nothing whatsoever to do with walking or chewing gum.

But they, themselves, cannot be criticized.

You're right. It's an odd sense of entitlement.

not our side.

She is a reporter and she flat out lied.

That's hard to walk back from as a reporter in my book.

They sow discord and discontent.

her weren't dividing the party? Especially when those same people are now telling me that when they are wrong.

So, basically, you are saying that a certain group here on DU can't ever be questioned or we are dividing the party but others can be told to stop saying things and those people aren't dividing the party.

That sounds like cliquish bullshit to me.

The Koch brothers spend a billion dollars to generate much the same kind of message. I don't think they would make.that investment without some hope of some return.

I oppose their Democrats suck message and like hell if I am going to proliferate that message. Do you want to proliferate "Democrats suck?" If you don't wish to proliferate "Democrats suck" then you need to objectively weigh your need for self expression against your need to elect Democrats. That's called being functional. That's called having discipline.

When you lash out against Democrats such as myself for having the temerity to ask you to have discipline, what do you accomplish? I can tell you my reaction. I write you off.

I guess I am just not 'pure' enough to understand the benefit of eating our own.

Because she had the chance to say that she was wrong and talk about that and about her growth, but she lied. Add to that that she is a reporter and SHE LIED. That's kind of a big deal for journalists.

It's not about eating our own as much as it is holding our own to the same standards we want in Republicans.

It‘s not a coincidence that many of the people jumping all over this are also quick to jump to invoke the “of course I know racism is a problem, but that’s not what happened THIS time” whitesplain whenever an obviously racist incident is discussed.

What can you do but just take it for what it’s worth?

she wrote are not really so bad. I know anti gay discrimination is a problem but let me straight splain why this isn't it.

Are we not all on the same side? I am under the impression that we are. Am I wrong?

I still have to wonder how people can be so sure that Joy wasn't hacked, and the hack covered up by the hackers.

Set aside for a moment how difficult it generally is to prove a negative. Even so, the Democratic National Committee, which presumably has access to far more sophisticated (and expensive) computer expertise, was hacked. John Podesta, who likewise is most probably far better protected than someone who was--at that time anyway--a more or less obscure blogger--was also hacked. E-mails and materials from both were then altered, and disseminated in an effort to discredit them.

We have at least one foreign government dedicated to screwing Democrats and progressives, backed by a coterie of shit stirrers and rat fuckers here in the US funded by what Paul Simon calls "a loose affiliation of millionaires and billionaires."

Yet I'm expected to take the word of more or less anonymous "experts" that there is simply no conceivable way the same thing happened to Joy. Because internet platforms are just so incredibly dedicated to the integrity of the product they deliver. And it is impossible--beyond the realm of all possibility--that screen shots and time stamps can be doctored or in any way altered to support further rat fucking.

Sorry, but for now I think I'll take Joy's word on this, and accept what looked to me to be a heart-felt apology. I could be wrong--and pardon my ignorance--but that's the way I see it right now.

It’s pretty transparent.

Because there are captured images in the Internet Archive that are not actual web pages but "pictures" taken by spiders (computer programs) and then archived. They would have to manually change the image which would leave clear traces it had been done.

Just because you don't understand it, doesn't make it false. Argumentum ad ignorantiam and all that.

Not on the word of "experts" whose agenda I don't know, and whose veracity I can't verify. Especially when we now know there is a history of computer manipulation by folks who are determined to sow discord among Democrats and discredit anyone whose voice is respected by progressives.

"People who track that down for a living...." You mean like the professionals at Facebook who assured us our personal data was safe?

I'll wait a while until I pass final judgment. Something tells me that--like with Wiki-leaks and the Assuage/Trump connection--there will be more information forthcoming on this issue. In the meantime, I'll give Joy the benefit of the doubt.

That's why we have the "well, I don't REMEMBER making those posts, but I guess I did" "apology."

But hey, whatever makes the world make sense to you, I guess.

Too bad you’re so hung up over it.

you'll be fine with that, too, then, I guess.

And, yeah, sorry if I worry that journalists lie.