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forgotmylogin

(7,532 posts)
Mon Apr 30, 2018, 10:50 AM Apr 2018

"When they go low, we go high" does not mean "Turn the other cheek."

I've responded this in a couple threads, but I thought it should be called out.

These are wise words of Michelle Obama, and they can apply at many different levels. Of course we want to take the high road whenever possible as many have interpreted this statement, but consider this:

"Going high" is attacking. It implies we are already in a brawl. It is punching back, but aiming for a knockout by hitting the head or the jaw instead of fighting dirty to cause humiliation and pain by aiming for the groin, privates, or "pussy" if you will.

It is not crumbling into a corner, apologizing for making the attacker mad, and promising never to do it again. It is not stoically ignoring the blows landed by the attacker because we are philosophically better than they are and we know how to take it, shaking our heads sadly, hoping they will eventually learn a valuable lesson from witnessing our restraint.

"Going high" means the fight has already started. It means punch hard and make it count so you can end it. Reasoning with the attacker and teaching them a lesson no longer applies.

Don't pull the punch, don't show mercy, don't bother with hundreds of glancing cheap shots, because if they're "going low" and we're "going high", then we're already past solving the issue the way we'd prefer. We're fighting fair, we're fighting with truth, and we want to win.

For those who believe Michelle Wolf was going low, ask yourself specifically "Which of her statements were not true?" Speaking truth to power is never a low blow.

31 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
"When they go low, we go high" does not mean "Turn the other cheek." (Original Post) forgotmylogin Apr 2018 OP
Excellent!!! Phoenix61 Apr 2018 #1
Never underestimate lunatica Apr 2018 #2
I like your post! awesomerwb1 Apr 2018 #3
Michelle Wolf was a writer for the Daily Show. SunSeeker Apr 2018 #8
K&R!!! Takket Apr 2018 #4
Absolutely, if they bring a knife to the fight then should bring a sharp pen, but procon Apr 2018 #5
And do not apologize for speaking truth to power dalton99a Apr 2018 #6
K & R SunSeeker Apr 2018 #7
And it doesn't mean, "Assume the position!" deurbano Apr 2018 #9
Or "Please sir, may I have another". SammyWinstonJack Apr 2018 #10
Should be a 2-person operation. . .a CHOP BLOCK. DinahMoeHum Apr 2018 #11
. NCTraveler Apr 2018 #16
This is probably one of the most common sense posts I have read on DU in 10 years! BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #12
Thank you. I never viewed Michelle Obama's statement that way. Makes sense Pepsidog Apr 2018 #13
"Stoically... hoping they will eventually learn..." Excellent phrasing. Beartracks Apr 2018 #14
I don't think Michelle intended her advice to apply to comedians. EffieBlack Apr 2018 #15
I remember when H2O Man Apr 2018 #17
Khaleesi and her dragons go high all the time IronLionZion Apr 2018 #18
And they are forgetting that she was talking about what to do when you yourself ehrnst Apr 2018 #19
The US Air Force's motto is Aim High IronLionZion Apr 2018 #20
K&R MontanaMama Apr 2018 #21
"I won't dignify that with an answer" -example of 'going high'. poboy2 Apr 2018 #22
"I won't dignify that with an answer" is an answer. forgotmylogin May 2018 #24
Thanks for this nt Sunsky Apr 2018 #23
"Turn the other cheek?" Wasn't that guy misanthrope May 2018 #25
I like to imagine Jesus was being cheeky there. forgotmylogin May 2018 #26
Just for some context... N_E_1 for Tennis May 2018 #27
I guess that's why I felt the need to post this. forgotmylogin May 2018 #28
Your welcome... N_E_1 for Tennis May 2018 #29
Donald Trump is ugly mythology May 2018 #30
How does that help us? What "cost" do you think Wolf should pay? forgotmylogin May 2018 #31

Phoenix61

(17,019 posts)
1. Excellent!!!
Mon Apr 30, 2018, 11:03 AM
Apr 2018

That's the best way I've heard it put. I'm so tired of the "go high" means sitting on our hands doing nothing. I'm a firm believer in not starting a fight and trying to avoid them but sometimes folks are just insistent. Then it's game on, play fair but play to win.

awesomerwb1

(4,268 posts)
3. I like your post!
Mon Apr 30, 2018, 11:10 AM
Apr 2018

You're exactly right.

If they go low, we destroy them.

I'm very disappointed Dems tend not to be on point soooo often.

Republicans are on message all the time, so disciplined because they know repeating shit over and over sticks.

Dems need that discipline and a pinch, no, a heaping teaspoon of ruthlessness.

My only criticism of Michelle Wolf is that she could work on her delivery a little bit.

SunSeeker

(51,724 posts)
8. Michelle Wolf was a writer for the Daily Show.
Mon Apr 30, 2018, 01:13 PM
Apr 2018

She is not really a stand-up comedian. Given that, she did great.

procon

(15,805 posts)
5. Absolutely, if they bring a knife to the fight then should bring a sharp pen, but
Mon Apr 30, 2018, 11:19 AM
Apr 2018

also an F-22 as backup. I take "going high" to mean that we need to be on top of the game. We don't let the Republicans keep destroying the norms of society and we will fight them with every tool we can think of (yeah, comedians count, too!) and call out every lie Trump tries to pass offmouth. Even more importantly, hold the press accountable. Call them out for their laziness in filling airtime with start to finish coverage of every partisan political rally Trump turns into a hate fest. The media is failing us, not just Democrats, but Republicans as well, when they skirt around Trump's incompetence and ignore his efforts to undermine every aspect of life in this country.

Beartracks

(12,821 posts)
14. "Stoically... hoping they will eventually learn..." Excellent phrasing.
Mon Apr 30, 2018, 01:33 PM
Apr 2018

Also applicable in other important situations, such as:
"hoping they will eventually learn a valuable lesson from witnessing... our willingness to throw our own under the bus."

A la Al Franken. Ironically, I'm sure the GOP *did* learn a valuable lesson when we did that, just not one that would've been helpful.

=========

H2O Man

(73,622 posts)
17. I remember when
Mon Apr 30, 2018, 01:39 PM
Apr 2018

Malcolm X explained that "turning the other cheek" can include breaking the aggressive opponent's jaw.

Recommended.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
19. And they are forgetting that she was talking about what to do when you yourself
Mon Apr 30, 2018, 01:40 PM
Apr 2018

are faced with discrimination and hate from the powers that be.

Not comedians speaking truth to power.

 

poboy2

(2,078 posts)
22. "I won't dignify that with an answer" -example of 'going high'.
Mon Apr 30, 2018, 02:01 PM
Apr 2018

Its a loser no matter how its recast or spun. Now this OP is an attempt to redefine the common usage of the term, and if that is what you want to do, fine. Lots of words to do so, half of which have nothing to do with going high or low.

What I do know is "I won't dignify that with an answer" is a fucking loser.

'going high' as is currently overwhelmingly understood is a LOSER.

So we'll lose if thats what is done.

forgotmylogin

(7,532 posts)
24. "I won't dignify that with an answer" is an answer.
Tue May 1, 2018, 01:03 AM
May 2018

+1 what you said, however the proper way to not dignify something with an answer is to not even answer. When bad press stirs up, the less it's acknowledged, the quicker attention diverts as events move quickly these days. Many politicians understand this. Bill Clinton fucked up, but he didn't call his attackers out, and even when the right wing starts yammering about it he feels no need to dignify them with an answer. And he doesn't even need to say "I won't dignify that with an answer."

This is why politicians learn "the pivot". This is why Fox always has a rampaging panda story or an amazing feta cheese nachos recipe to cut directly to when news breaks they don't want to linger on.

misanthrope

(7,428 posts)
25. "Turn the other cheek?" Wasn't that guy
Tue May 1, 2018, 01:33 AM
May 2018

betrayed by one of his own close-knit group then publicly executed and tortured by the state in a gruesome method?

forgotmylogin

(7,532 posts)
26. I like to imagine Jesus was being cheeky there.
Tue May 1, 2018, 02:00 AM
May 2018

In context, they were heretics, and I imagine you might consider His people the analog of protestors.

But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.


Skimming through multiple translations of Matthew 5:39 - all of them specify "right cheek" and "other cheek". (Only the "Good News" translation specifies "left cheek".)

http://biblehub.com/matthew/5-39.htm

I like to think the text translations here might be cleverly specifying "other cheek" instead of "left cheek" - specifically "your other right cheek" literally "offer them a view of your ass and run away rather than fight (resist)" - not at all staunchly stand and dare an attacker hit you again. Jesus may have made a very highbrow butt joke.

I'm sure they don't like to teach that in Sunday School though!

Addendum:

And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well.


Because, you know the cloak probably goes with the tunic, and you're going to look silly standing there naked in a cape. And now the other guy has to stand next to a naked person in the courtroom because he's the one who needs more clothes.

N_E_1 for Tennis

(9,782 posts)
27. Just for some context...
Tue May 1, 2018, 07:24 AM
May 2018

I agree with you forgotmylogin. I checked on the context of Michelle Obama’s saying had to do it for my own sanity. Here is an article from the Atlantic dated October 14, 2016.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/10/michelle-obama-goes-high/504203/


Excerpts

But what does it mean to “go high” in a campaign against a man like Donald Trump, whose xenophobic rhetoric and casual calls to violence represent a notable low-point in American politics?

“Going high” is how Clinton’s surrogates explained why she wasn’t nastier to Trump in the second presidential debate. While some pundits were puzzled that Clinton hadn’t delivered a death blow to her opponent, jumping on every opportunity to underscore his deficiencies and hypocrisies, her supporters had an explanation: She was focusing on actual issues and ideas. She was simply going high.

But, as Michelle Obama demonstrated on the campaign trail this week, going high doesn’t mean focusing on policy over politics—and it doesn’t mean avoiding an attack on one’s opponent. Going high doesn’t mean staying silent when bullied, but speaking out. And going high means reframing the focus on Trump’s most repugnant characteristics by zeroing in on how those qualities affect the people who might vote for him. This election isn’t just about Trump and who he is, the message goes, it’s about the rest of America and who we want to be.

“And we simply cannot endure this, or expose our children to this any longer—not for another minute, and let alone for four years,” Obama said. “Now is the time for all of us to stand up and say enough is enough. This has got to stop right now.”

This approach is what made Obama’s speech in New Hampshire on Thursday so riveting, so resonant, and so damning to Trump. Without once uttering his name, Obama laid out—in painful detail—exactly what’s so dangerous about him. And instead of describing the singular threat he’d pose in the Oval Office as a thin-skinned narcissist unfit to lead the country, she drilled down on the fact that he proudly and all-too-typically represents the sexism that women face every single day. He is an uncommon presidential candidate in large part because what he represents is so familiar.


forgotmylogin

(7,532 posts)
28. I guess that's why I felt the need to post this.
Tue May 1, 2018, 09:37 AM
May 2018

I kept reading so many people saying that Michelle Obama's quote meant that we shouldn't "sink to their level" when it's really about fighting better than they do because we have the higher position and standards socially and philosophically. "Going high" doesn't mean you skip the chance to uppercut.

Thanks for the article!

N_E_1 for Tennis

(9,782 posts)
29. Your welcome...
Tue May 1, 2018, 10:41 AM
May 2018

Yeah, some of those comments were starting to shake the rust off my brain. I remembered it quite differently. We must stand up to the bullies in this world not cower under the blankets.

Thanks for being the impetus for my search.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
30. Donald Trump is ugly
Tue May 1, 2018, 11:10 AM
May 2018

I believe that to be an objectively true statement. It's also going low.

She wasn't funny or insightful. It's hard to give some credit for "speaking truth to power" when there's no cost to the speaker. You are entitled to think she's something special. Others of us are entitled to think her act was boorish and didn't accomplish anything.

forgotmylogin

(7,532 posts)
31. How does that help us? What "cost" do you think Wolf should pay?
Tue May 1, 2018, 12:26 PM
May 2018

I understand you're entitled to your opinion of her set, but her statements are receiving a ton more media scrutiny and coverage than if she'd gone up and rattled off some "Boy, doesn't Melania look grumpy?" jokes.

I've seen non-comedy news shows relating chafed, pearl-clutching rightwing tweets and soundbites about how people are shocked, shocked at the lowbrow comedian immediately contrasted with the President's similarly boorish and bullying statements about people's appearances. People are hearing Wolf's words, and none of her words were untrue.

Wolf has managed to turn a rock over and expose a rare side to the sunlight that many media outlets had been glossing over. I think there are legit media outlets bristling at the "you created this monster" comments by going "Oh, you think we're not capable of putting him in his place? (papers shuffling...)"

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