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''Every seat in the theater in LA filled up so Bernie went outside to talk to the people ... '' (Original Post) Donkees Jun 2018 OP
I love Bernie !!! SamKnause Jun 2018 #1
Me too! SammyWinstonJack Jun 2018 #17
Me three! InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2018 #18
Me four. He's a great public servant. 💙 AtomicKitten Jun 2018 #37
He's the Senator from Vermont in the midst of a re-election campaign.... George II Jun 2018 #101
Congratulations George, you just won the 2018 Bernie Bashing Award in the catagory of... InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2018 #210
Nitpicking? MY Democratic Senators don't travel around the country.... George II Jun 2018 #245
That is because they have to worry about getting elected in New York. Sophia4 Jun 2018 #428
Actually, no they don't brooklynite Jun 2018 #450
Do you think crowds in California would come out to see speeches by Schumer Sophia4 Jun 2018 #463
You seem awfully hung up on crowd size EffieBlack Jun 2018 #465
Obsession with crowd size seems to be a theme with ehrnst Jun 2018 #586
Schumer and Gillibrand wouldn't go out to California to speak. They're too busy.... George II Jun 2018 #513
Sanders is called "Bernie" by most of his constituents and ANY Vermonter who has the least karynnj Jun 2018 #574
Woohoo! Our two Senators are readily accessible too, and many of us are on a first name basis.... George II Jun 2018 #580
Good - That's the way it should be karynnj Jun 2018 #581
Imagine that.... (nt) ehrnst Jun 2018 #587
Bzzzzt! Wrong! I live in Connecticut!!!!! George II Jun 2018 #462
Well hells bells I wanted that damn award! BannonsLiver Jun 2018 #340
Better luck next year... InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2018 #385
Sweet! BannonsLiver Jun 2018 #495
Ooohh! Pretty! I want one! NastyRiffraff Jun 2018 #550
I live in Vermont and saw him in Burlington Tuesday night karynnj Jun 2018 #219
If he's not concerned about the opppsition- why is he using the Dem party to help him? I'd have bettyellen Jun 2018 #310
No, the Democratic party does not want a three way race karynnj Jun 2018 #359
But if he has no plans to run as a democrat? Isn't that rigging it? Seems so. bettyellen Jun 2018 #365
No it is not rigging it karynnj Jun 2018 #370
So running in a primary under a party banner you plan to leave is straightforward normal and honest? bettyellen Jun 2018 #371
I wondered that as well. ehrnst Jun 2018 #475
I fell like it's a bait and switch thing, some people just vote Dem. I'd be pissed off. bettyellen Jun 2018 #527
There can be no official Democratic candidate to run against him ehrnst Jun 2018 #460
Even an incumbent is not seen as an "official candidate" of the Democratic party karynnj Jun 2018 #469
I find it ironic that Senator Sanders is the beneficiary of a process by where ehrnst Jun 2018 #472
I find it ironic... tonedevil Jun 2018 #478
Straw man much? ehrnst Jun 2018 #481
Nothing is ever clearer... tonedevil Jun 2018 #487
Actually, no. ehrnst Jun 2018 #496
I may well be overestimating... tonedevil Jun 2018 #497
I guess you told me, huh? ehrnst Jun 2018 #499
I don't think there is any new thing... tonedevil Jun 2018 #505
Well it's progress that you can finally admit that my opinion is not going to harm your Senator. ehrnst Jun 2018 #506
Why would you call him... tonedevil Jun 2018 #510
Mea culpa. I thought that you were from Vermont. ehrnst Jun 2018 #543
You sure are in a hurry to bully me off this board... tonedevil Jun 2018 #562
No one is "trying to bully you off this board..." ehrnst Jun 2018 #567
The Democratic Party did NOT choose the candidate before the primary karynnj Jun 2018 #483
You can tell yourself that all you want. ehrnst Jun 2018 #504
The people of Vermont will choose the nominees in the primaries and the Senator in the general karynnj Jun 2018 #507
So that makes it OK that the Democratic establishment selects ehrnst Jun 2018 #544
The Democratic establishment has not "chosen" the nominee karynnj Jun 2018 #547
Are you saying that the Vermont Democratic establishment *didn't* select Bernie? ehrnst Jun 2018 #549
It is pretty clear that you have never even visited Vermont karynnj Jun 2018 #560
You keep saying that one needs to be in Vermont to have any sort of ehrnst Jun 2018 #566
By simply having this arrangement, they show that they selected Bernie as the candidate. ehrnst Jun 2018 #568
The Vermont Democratic party is doing what is best for the Vermont Democratic party karynnj Jun 2018 #572
And they believe that making sure that Bernie is the official Democratic candidate ehrnst Jun 2018 #575
Post removed Post removed Jun 2018 #577
What part of the Vermont Democratic party picking Bernie as the ehrnst Jun 2018 #582
For the life of me I don't recall any "attacks" on Vermont. George II Jun 2018 #583
Neither do I. ehrnst Jun 2018 #584
Bernie is campaigning to get Democrats out to vote. Sophia4 Jun 2018 #429
He is using the Democratic party in Vermont to exclude any Dem primary opponents. ehrnst Jun 2018 #461
The stunt that sanders is pulling in Vermont is very sad Gothmog Jun 2018 #491
What other individual running as a Democrat or Independent can draw crowds Sophia4 Jun 2018 #494
If sanders runs in the Democratic primary and wins, then he needs to run in General election Gothmog Jun 2018 #501
Actually he is avoiding any issue... tonedevil Jun 2018 #512
"Crowds" - so it's the Trump defense. bettyellen Jun 2018 #529
Who can compete with Trump when it comes to drawing crowds? Sophia4 Jun 2018 #530
I just looked up crowds and it's interesting. betsuni Jun 2018 #534
Crowds alone can't win, but if a candidate can't draw good crowds, that's a bad sign. Sophia4 Jun 2018 #535
But if they just make sure that they get a venue near a college campus ehrnst Jun 2018 #561
Mitt Romney crowds just before election day lunamagica Jun 2018 #578
Yes. But being able to speak well enough to draw a crowd while it does not Sophia4 Jun 2018 #579
In Anaheim, CA to advocate for a city ballot initiative requiring a higher minimum wage EffieBlack Jun 2018 #381
He is trying to get California Democrats to get out and vote. Sophia4 Jun 2018 #427
He was there to urge Anaheim residents to vote for a municipal ballot initiative affecting only them EffieBlack Jun 2018 #448
Me five!! Kentonio Jun 2018 #225
'We have one system of justice for the wealthy and another system for the poor and people of color.' Donkees Jun 2018 #2
Yes we do. Go Bernie! mountain grammy Jun 2018 #5
Ah. sheshe2 Jun 2018 #3
Riiiight. Did he ever talk to the people who were actually inside waiting for him? And was there... Hekate Jun 2018 #7
Lol sheshe2 Jun 2018 #9
... NurseJackie Jun 2018 #12
I also noticed a lot of the attention of the crowd??? sheshe2 Jun 2018 #13
LOL! Nice try! nt USALiberal Jun 2018 #28
So why are the cameras pointed to the right? sheshe2 Jun 2018 #38
Susan Sarandon or maybe Killer Mike? oasis Jun 2018 #42
Had not thought of them. sheshe2 Jun 2018 #46
Kamala Harris. George II Jun 2018 #67
Yes!!!!! sheshe2 Jun 2018 #76
I'd buy a ticket in the front row for that debate. oasis Jun 2018 #82
Embracing Sanders' Medicare for All, like she did? SMC22307 Jun 2018 #241
You mean Ted Kennedy's and John Dingell's Medicare for All? George II Jun 2018 #248
+1 betsuni Jun 2018 #251
Kennedy is no longer with us and Dingell retired. SMC22307 Jun 2018 #282
The point is that everyone is talking about Medicare for All like it's Sanders'.... George II Jun 2018 #287
Not to mention, iirc, that when LBJ got it through he intended people to love it so much for grandma Hekate Jun 2018 #317
No the point is someone is taking up the torch. someone with the visibility to give it a kick LiberalLovinLug Jun 2018 #324
So, let me get this straight EffieBlack Jun 2018 #331
+1000 (nt) ehrnst Jun 2018 #482
"Embracing Sanders' Medicare for All?" sheshe2 Jun 2018 #393
Well, BS hasn't said anything new in almost 60 years DURHAM D Jun 2018 #70
**snort** sheshe2 Jun 2018 #77
He's been saying the same things for almost 60 years. mountain grammy Jun 2018 #95
"Saying" being the operative word EffieBlack Jun 2018 #104
What he wasn't doing was voting for mountain grammy Jun 2018 #119
No - he was voting for the crime bill and "speaking out" against things while others were doing the EffieBlack Jun 2018 #133
Great! betsuni Jun 2018 #140
. yes, I remember that photo of Sheila Jackson Lee.. mountain grammy Jun 2018 #142
He "spoke out" - so what? He's a US senator. Did he DO anything besides promise EffieBlack Jun 2018 #150
And exactly what did Democrats "do" about the SC vacancy?? mountain grammy Jun 2018 #273
I'm not talking about the other Democrats. I'm talking about Bernie EffieBlack Jun 2018 #284
Well sheshe2 Jun 2018 #394
No, I didn't. mountain grammy Jun 2018 #406
Indeed. Compelling points, EffieBlack. calimary Jun 2018 #144
Stand by Me. sheshe2 Jun 2018 #160
Blaming Bernie for GOP obstruction of Obama's Supreme Court choice is libelous. doxyluv13 Jun 2018 #208
Bernie, who ran for potus as a Dem, went on record SAYING he would ditch Garland if elected. WHY Hekate Jun 2018 #326
If anything that helped Garland, not enough obviously... Tom Rinaldo Jun 2018 #334
Self Deleted. Copy of my reply above this one n/t Tom Rinaldo Jun 2018 #335
Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ehrnst Jun 2018 #216
That's my problem with Bernie supporters MountCleaners Jun 2018 #237
The only time they talk about them is to call them "sellouts." EffieBlack Jun 2018 #269
Exactly BuddhaGirl Jun 2018 #376
Agreed EffieBlack Jun 2018 #379
I am friends with several CBC members Gothmog Jun 2018 #420
Houston congressman arrested with George Clooney Gothmog Jun 2018 #321
Spot on, Effie Hekate Jun 2018 #322
I wont hear a word he says until he shows me his tax returns. Eliot Rosewater Jun 2018 #280
So, what are his results, specifically, in those 60 years? BTW.... George II Jun 2018 #180
Hm sheshe2 Jun 2018 #193
+1. KPN Jun 2018 #200
And he's so DREAMY! EffieBlack Jun 2018 #204
Yeah, no one says that about Bernie, or most politicians. SMC22307 Jun 2018 #247
"swooning over Obama"? betsuni Jun 2018 #254
That's how I felt about it, too, SMC22307 Jun 2018 #259
Nobody "swooned" over Obama. betsuni Jun 2018 #261
That's funny. If I cared enough I'd dig up... SMC22307 Jun 2018 #276
I admit I swooned over Obama in 2008. AtomicKitten Jun 2018 #521
... mcar Jun 2018 #278
Thank you. The BOG appreciates your avoidance. Hekate Jun 2018 #328
... George II Jun 2018 #353
;) sheshe2 Jun 2018 #395
Obama, too?? Here I thought it was just anti-Hillary. nt R B Garr Jun 2018 #343
What's wrong with "swooning" over Obama? George II Jun 2018 #354
What's with the attacks on Obama ? He was President and many were Happy to have him there JI7 Jun 2018 #398
Your damn right KPN, Bernie doesn't triangulate... and I, like millions of others, are InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2018 #211
I've been saying many of the same things for years, too. ehrnst Jun 2018 #217
Great post. He never needed to "evolve," SMC22307 Jun 2018 #244
But evolve they did and good for them mountain grammy Jun 2018 #256
Wow, such venom towards Obama and Clinton. Somehow I'm not buying it's why you say though. bettyellen Jun 2018 #313
There are real life and death consequences when people are marginalized. mountain grammy Jun 2018 #375
It's a shame Sanders took a while to evolve then- since 2006 bettyellen Jun 2018 #382
You do realize that Sanders didn't support same sex marriage as recently as 2006, maybe even.... George II Jun 2018 #399
Your wrong... disillusioned73 Jun 2018 #455
("Your wrong"?) No, I'm NOT wrong, and my "smear game", as you put it.... George II Jun 2018 #459
Ok, so he voted AGAINST something.. disillusioned73 Jun 2018 #471
Tis. KPN Jun 2018 #263
He was not for gay marriage in 06, so Sanders evolved. bettyellen Jun 2018 #380
But that's different EffieBlack Jun 2018 #383
The Russian trolls out a lot of energy into Bernie myths on FB and people still believe them today! bettyellen Jun 2018 #384
Thank you so much for posting facts. This "evolving is bad" insult is stupid. betsuni Jun 2018 #389
Post removed Post removed Jun 2018 #396
Same sex marriage is a states rights issue? Then why did the Supreme Court rule on it? George II Jun 2018 #402
Sanders is ok with individual, fundamental rights being upheld - or not - on a state by state basis? EffieBlack Jun 2018 #403
Yeah for the SCOTUS Gothmog Jun 2018 #423
"States rights"? Isn't that the mantra of the right wing conservatives? George II Jun 2018 #401
Tax returns, etc., this, that , the other. List is long, but folks ignore the long list of issues Eliot Rosewater Jun 2018 #467
To get onto the ballot in a number of blue states, sanders will have to file tax returns Gothmog Jun 2018 #477
FanFUCKINGtastic. Now EVERYBODY will start at first base. Wait, if that isnt Eliot Rosewater Jun 2018 #479
He's evolving on trade, too. betsuni Jun 2018 #446
But he did fantasize about rape NastyRiffraff Jun 2018 #553
And yet, we don't have tuition-less public colleges and universities, universal healthcare Sophia4 Jun 2018 #431
By crowd I assume you mean a few hundred people and DURHAM D Jun 2018 #433
The LA Times reported that the rally was attended by "hundreds"! See my post #57 George II Jun 2018 #58
The LA Times is a sellout, oligarchs, Establishment EffieBlack Jun 2018 #106
"Fake news" perhaps? George II Jun 2018 #108
That, too EffieBlack Jun 2018 #110
I swear to Gawd, George, that is exactly the term I think of R B Garr Jun 2018 #270
Why in the world would anyone feel the need to exaggerate crowd size. sheshe2 Jun 2018 #400
Bazinga! George II Jun 2018 #409
Exaggerating crowd size. Hmm. betsuni Jun 2018 #412
Let me sleep on that. sheshe2 Jun 2018 #414
Exactly! Crowd fakeness sounds familiar.... nt R B Garr Jun 2018 #488
You are using facts against a silly talking point Gothmog Jun 2018 #421
You are asking questions that you already know the answer to. Captain Stern Jun 2018 #234
Yes. Bernie often draws such large crowds that he has to speak to many people Sophia4 Jun 2018 #430
Crickets... chirp! chirp! InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2018 #485
See post 502 sheshe2 Jun 2018 #503
Obama for one... sheshe2 Jun 2018 #502
Right. Obama. Who else? Sophia4 Jun 2018 #508
Is this what they call moving the goal posts! sheshe2 Jun 2018 #514
It's a miracle! n/t NastyRiffraff Jun 2018 #551
... EffieBlack Jun 2018 #23
Made Me Laugh Me. Jun 2018 #27
Do you... sheshe2 Jun 2018 #34
... Me. Jun 2018 #132
--- sheshe2 Jun 2018 #138
You're not supposed to notice those things. comradebillyboy Jun 2018 #35
;) sheshe2 Jun 2018 #39
Shaun King: Donkees Jun 2018 #4
Thanks for drawing attention to this... can't be mentioned enough. InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2018 #10
And then he moved to Vermont EffieBlack Jun 2018 #24
Moved to Vermont! The horror! BlueWI Jun 2018 #43
Nothing wrong with it EffieBlack Jun 2018 #51
Not only one of the whitest states, but a STATE with about one-quarter of the population of.... George II Jun 2018 #120
Double the horror!! BlueWI Jun 2018 #232
Actually 5.1 times "the horror". lapucelle Jun 2018 #239
Sure - pile on, why not. BlueWI Jun 2018 #246
Tammy Baldwin? Not a comparative example, she was born and grew up in Wisconsin. George II Jun 2018 #250
Sure she was BlueWI Jun 2018 #294
Ah, the ol' "moveable goal post" claim. The sub-discussion is that Sanders left a diverse.... George II Jun 2018 #452
+1 betsuni Jun 2018 #454
Did that poster just accuse you of "concern trolling?" Eliot Rosewater Jun 2018 #474
Yes indeed. George II Jun 2018 #480
I just heard the open primary in CA might result in GOP winning, open primary Eliot Rosewater Jun 2018 #489
You're calling Lapucelle a "troll"? Really? George II Jun 2018 #253
Nothing says "unity" like calling someone names. lapucelle Jun 2018 #279
I agree that I'm contributing to the pot-stirring that I didn't start, BlueWI Jun 2018 #289
If someone resorts to personal insults.. Cha Jun 2018 #364
I responded to the arguments in a post BlueWI Jun 2018 #281
Wasn't there an OP here just the other day... sheshe2 Jun 2018 #413
Bernie's divisive EffieBlack Jun 2018 #419
Yep. sheshe2 Jun 2018 #425
How can someone who supports the D party be a russian bot? Eliot Rosewater Jun 2018 #476
It's the hypocrisy. Tammy Baldwin doesn't put herself R B Garr Jun 2018 #258
I see your point BlueWI Jun 2018 #292
Bernie lived in New York which is known for diversity. R B Garr Jun 2018 #305
So the answer is to litigate where Bernie lives and why he moved? BlueWI Jun 2018 #307
Because Bernie is still out there criticizing Democrats in R B Garr Jun 2018 #311
The Clintons have a long record of fighting for civil rights and strong relationships with the black EffieBlack Jun 2018 #318
Here we go round the mulberry bush. BlueWI Jun 2018 #350
Harlem was BC's second choice. AtomicKitten Jun 2018 #523
So what? He still picked Harlem, instead of anyplace else in the state he could have gone EffieBlack Jun 2018 #524
As they say, actions speak louder than words. lapucelle Jun 2018 #266
Congratulations on being a doer. BlueWI Jun 2018 #300
Thank you for your spot on observations and KPN Jun 2018 #272
Thanks! BlueWI Jun 2018 #295
All you have is a personal attack.. "..your concern trolling.." Cha Jun 2018 #366
Bashing Democratic leaders is "helping to unify." ehrnst Jun 2018 #372
I believe that all 100 senators are accountable BlueWI Jun 2018 #387
Interesting that Bernie is so often held up as different and apart from other Senators because he's EffieBlack Jun 2018 #397
Damn good question. sheshe2 Jun 2018 #407
Things like this give me brainaches. betsuni Jun 2018 #411
Yep. (nt) ehrnst Jun 2018 #444
Who else is not being taken into account? When everyone but Sanders is accused of ehrnst Jun 2018 #442
You totally missed the point. Twice. Have a great day. George II Jun 2018 #249
So running in Vermont canceled all his work he did, and any cred he may have garnered before that? LiberalLovinLug Jun 2018 #123
Who said it cancelled anything out? EffieBlack Jun 2018 #146
There's no denying that! NurseJackie Jun 2018 #308
I don't see how anyone is 'miliking' the time of his participation of his youth LiberalLovinLug Jun 2018 #330
What in my post evidenced "hate" toward Sanders? EffieBlack Jun 2018 #333
I don't think you are so hateful LiberalLovinLug Jun 2018 #337
If you don't think you are a "fan," then I probably wasn't talking about you. EffieBlack Jun 2018 #338
Fair enough Effie LiberalLovinLug Jun 2018 #341
Yep! EffieBlack Jun 2018 #345
excuse me, Bernie did not "walk away" from all that. garybeck Jun 2018 #126
Really? How can has he "engage(d) in civil rights struggle" since the late 1960s? I've seen here.. George II Jun 2018 #139
Check his voting record. I guess that doesn't count? garybeck Jun 2018 #426
Voting isn't "engagement" - it's the most basic thing a Senator does EffieBlack Jun 2018 #456
He does a lot more than vote, as I said. garybeck Jun 2018 #473
He votes and he gives speeches. EffieBlack Jun 2018 #484
you still haven't answered my question garybeck Jun 2018 #515
Since when do facts matter to Bernie Bashers?!?! InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2018 #196
Moving to Vermont may not have prevented BS from doing anything, but lapucelle Jun 2018 #231
Have I heard this take before? BlueWI Jun 2018 #240
But that's where his inheritance bought him land. He would have Ninsianna Jun 2018 #265
Not going to do much to help the poor oppressed masses and the plight of minorities... George II Jun 2018 #63
Jon Stewart's dig at Howard Dean works with Bernie, too EffieBlack Jun 2018 #183
HAH! Near-unanimous, all 8,000 of them. There were more Blacks at the NY Mets game today! George II Jun 2018 #184
from a congressional seat? Really? From a senatorial seat? Those don't have reach JCanete Jun 2018 #201
Exactly EffieBlack Jun 2018 #286
And sheshe2 Jun 2018 #47
Might want to read up on the back-to-the-land movement of the '60s and '70s. SMC22307 Jun 2018 #64
Back to the land after one protest? sheshe2 Jun 2018 #81
What does that even mean? SMC22307 Jun 2018 #157
No one said anyone's not "allowed" to do anything and no one accused anyone of racism EffieBlack Jun 2018 #159
Horseshit. Vermont and its 95% (or is it 99%?) is nothing but... SMC22307 Jun 2018 #164
Trust me. When I accuse people of racism, I come out and say it. EffieBlack Jun 2018 #166
Yes, my mindset is that "Vermont is X% white"... SMC22307 Jun 2018 #173
It's simple EffieBlack Jun 2018 #178
Along with tax returns or the lack thereof and voting AGAINST russian sanctions I want to Eliot Rosewater Jun 2018 #554
In 1970 (two years after he fled to Vermont) NYS was... George II Jun 2018 #186
You're wrong, AGAIN. You are comparing NYC... SMC22307 Jun 2018 #257
No, he was a resident of NYC before he moved to Vermont. Anyone with an understanding.... George II Jun 2018 #260
Doesn't matter. He moved from a state that was nearly 87% white... SMC22307 Jun 2018 #275
In 1970 there were 22,000 minority residents in Vermont, in NYC* there were 1,850,000. George II Jun 2018 #548
Wow, never thought of that before. Fits perfectly into what i KNOW though. Eliot Rosewater Jun 2018 #552
LOL, you have no idea what Brooklyn was like back in the day, do you? bettyellen Jun 2018 #316
In all fairness, sheshe, the urge to find a simpler purer life was fairly widespread... Hekate Jun 2018 #344
I don't fault him for moving to Vermont EffieBlack Jun 2018 #346
Yes indeed it does make us roll our eyes Hekate Jun 2018 #361
And how did that "movement" work out? From what I can find, it died in the 1970s. George II Jun 2018 #92
Read the Rolling Stone link I posted, it's quite interesting. SMC22307 Jun 2018 #161
I did read it, unless I missed it there's nothing noted since the 1970s. BTW... George II Jun 2018 #181
Yes, because his Democratic predecessor was a terrible person, even if his policies were better karynnj Jun 2018 #221
So does Maryland and Massachusetts. Ugh. For various reasons though it happens n/t Tom Rinaldo Jun 2018 #224
Transforming the political landscape is significant... SMC22307 Jun 2018 #238
No it didn't karynnj Jun 2018 #220
This message was self-deleted by its author BannonsLiver Jun 2018 #156
Yes, and Vermont has about one-quarter of the population of his hometown (and mine) of... George II Jun 2018 #112
So? SMC22307 Jun 2018 #48
Not mad at Bernie at all EffieBlack Jun 2018 #52
Macedonian trolls, perhaps. You getting duped by them? SMC22307 Jun 2018 #111
Does he really get held up as a civil rights KPN Jun 2018 #288
Yes, he does. Frequently. Read the board. EffieBlack Jun 2018 #293
I've followed the Bernie Sanders discussion KPN Jun 2018 #297
... NurseJackie Jun 2018 #360
Can you scoot over a little bit? EffieBlack Jun 2018 #362
"He's been defended, not iconized." NurseJackie Jun 2018 #363
That's US!!! EffieBlack Jun 2018 #368
Bwahahahhaha sheshe2 Jun 2018 #410
I am, I am mad as hell. but I cant say why Eliot Rosewater Jun 2018 #555
It's curious sheshe2 Jun 2018 #59
He's had his share of votes AGAINST gun control legislation that might have stemmed the slaughter... George II Jun 2018 #118
Yes. He had a chance on gun control. sheshe2 Jun 2018 #137
I can't stop watching that gif. betsuni Jun 2018 #141
AWESOME gif! EffieBlack Jun 2018 #151
Stealing that LOL Eliot Rosewater Jun 2018 #556
LOL, and in 1970, New York state was almost 87% white. SMC22307 Jun 2018 #153
You mean "angry" as opposed to "mad", don't you? George II Jun 2018 #114
I'm not speaking British English. SMC22307 Jun 2018 #154
If that's the case, British OR American, saying one is "mad" is saying she's "mentally disturbed". George II Jun 2018 #158
You're wrong. There is a difference between British AND American... SMC22307 Jun 2018 #162
FYI sheshe2 Jun 2018 #163
And? (n/t) SMC22307 Jun 2018 #165
Your British dig. sheshe2 Jun 2018 #169
"We see you"? LOLOLOL! Didn't Glenn Beck use that line... SMC22307 Jun 2018 #175
You swung at George and missed. sheshe2 Jun 2018 #179
Discussions of Beck were all over DU. SMC22307 Jun 2018 #235
ZZZZZZZing Eliot Rosewater Jun 2018 #557
It's desperation.. disillusioned73 Jun 2018 #457
His choice of where to live 50 years ago is now a KPN Jun 2018 #277
If a 55-year-old protest is relevant, his other choices during that time and since are also relevant EffieBlack Jun 2018 #285
Yes! mountain grammy Jun 2018 #98
Why hasn't King formed that third party he was screaming about?? Blue_Tires Jun 2018 #492
Candidate Obama did this when he came to my town. Qutzupalotl Jun 2018 #6
Bernie has always been about classy... it's what makes him so damn appealing. InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2018 #16
I find absolutely nothing appealing or classy about calling Democrats "ideologically bankrupt"... NurseJackie Jun 2018 #45
;) sheshe2 Jun 2018 #49
Thank you. EffieBlack Jun 2018 #56
Apparently so. InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2018 #89
Being consistent matters to me. You can't pretend one side is taking money and the other isn't, or JCanete Jun 2018 #205
Thanks, and arent there a dozen or more similar attacks of the D party? Eliot Rosewater Jun 2018 #558
Your comment, in light of posts #3, 7, 9, 12, 13, 23, 27... DRoseDARs Jun 2018 #72
Alas, I can't see posts #3,7,9,12,13,23,27... shanny Jun 2018 #78
Every 1 in a while I have to take a break from seeing certain posters, but always eventually unblock DRoseDARs Jun 2018 #83
My ignore list is short, but apparently well-targeted. shanny Jun 2018 #85
Oh I certainly understand. Sometimes individuals can be infuriating and it's best to block. DRoseDARs Jun 2018 #90
Maybe it's because my actual family is so crazy shanny Jun 2018 #115
:) sheshe2 Jun 2018 #195
...... mountain grammy Jun 2018 #103
LOL me either. nt Snotcicles Jun 2018 #155
Neither Obama nor Clinton (are you refighting the primary perhaps?) would be "campaigning".... George II Jun 2018 #99
Refighting the primary? That's pure projection and you are naked. DRoseDARs Jun 2018 #109
In a discussion about Sanders in 2018 you bring up Hillary Clinton. Me, projection? So.... George II Jun 2018 #148
"BTW, I'm fully clothed." sheshe2 Jun 2018 #597
Obama campaigned for others in 2004 because he faced an easy general election karynnj Jun 2018 #223
Seriously? sheshe2 Jun 2018 #168
Of course you want to make this about barricades Qutzupalotl Jun 2018 #369
''We don't have liberty and justice for all ... '' Donkees Jun 2018 #8
Bernie tellin' it like it is... another brillant appearance, showing why he is the most popular InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2018 #11
Ha! NurseJackie Jun 2018 #14
. stonecutter357 Jun 2018 #202
Right on, Bernie.. mountain grammy Jun 2018 #107
''We have tens of thousands of people in jail that cannot afford cash bail. '' Donkees Jun 2018 #15
!!!! SammyWinstonJack Jun 2018 #19
So true! Sophia4 Jun 2018 #432
I didn't know that. Thanks, Bernie! EffieBlack Jun 2018 #468
Post removed Post removed Jun 2018 #20
Lol. MrsCoffee Jun 2018 #29
Definitely a man of the people. jalan48 Jun 2018 #21
You can say that again!! InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2018 #197
Yes! SammyWinstonJack Jun 2018 #386
.@SenSanders ends his speech with "no more jails, no more incarceration. Let's educate our children" Donkees Jun 2018 #22
Great. Now what? EffieBlack Jun 2018 #26
The promotion of OR candidates BannonsLiver Jun 2018 #30
Meh EffieBlack Jun 2018 #44
Another rally. nt sheshe2 Jun 2018 #66
That looks like it's indoors, what about your OP? Why don't you respond to questions.... George II Jun 2018 #128
George Soros has been donating money to DA's focused on these issues Tavarious Jackson Jun 2018 #25
That is an indisputable fact you raise. Lucky Luciano Jun 2018 #31
Yes it is. Tavarious Jackson Jun 2018 #33
I am sorry, but that seems like a very cynical remark rurallib Jun 2018 #32
How was he deeply involved in civil rights in the 60's? Tavarious Jackson Jun 2018 #36
So how many have you been to? rurallib Jun 2018 #40
This OP bears repeating EffieBlack Jun 2018 #55
No, it doesn't. Not really. Hassin Bin Sober Jun 2018 #62
Thanks for the kick EffieBlack Jun 2018 #65
Happy to kick this thread (I don't think you know how this works) Hassin Bin Sober Jun 2018 #69
I know exactly how this works. You kick the thread, you kick my post and more people read it EffieBlack Jun 2018 #73
Yes it really does. sheshe2 Jun 2018 #125
Why not? Maybe in your opinion it doesn't, but certainly in the opinion of many here... George II Jun 2018 #130
Yes, it absolutely does. Cha Jun 2018 #424
+10000000 betsuni Jun 2018 #105
I agree with you, it does Tom Rinaldo Jun 2018 #227
I agree with everything you said EffieBlack Jun 2018 #267
Fair enough Tom Rinaldo Jun 2018 #309
Well said, as always! mcar Jun 2018 #283
Good job of trivializing Bernie's activities KPN Jun 2018 #296
You must not have read my post. EffieBlack Jun 2018 #302
I did read it. The entire thing. KPN Jun 2018 #303
Then we'll have to go with the second option. eom EffieBlack Jun 2018 #304
I'm sure. KPN Jun 2018 #327
I am still waiting to see what Sanders has actually accomplished. Gothmog Jun 2018 #357
See it how you will. I'll take Sanders' honest critique of our economic-political system KPN Jun 2018 #388
Because no one knew about any of this before Bernie started talking about it ... EffieBlack Jun 2018 #390
Making speeches do not accomplish anything in the real world Gothmog Jun 2018 #404
So sanders has no accomplishments in the real world? Gothmog Jun 2018 #392
That's great. It was the 1960s, and not that many white males were interested Sophia4 Jun 2018 #434
So is Sanders still appearing on Russia-propaganda station RT? pnwmom Jun 2018 #54
You should probably read your own links... Hassin Bin Sober Jun 2018 #61
The links don't say where Thom Hartmann is broadcasting from now. Or whether pnwmom Jun 2018 #91
I watch him on Free Speech TV. Nanjeanne Jun 2018 #230
He only learned about people being jailed for not affording tickets when he went to some sort of bettyellen Jun 2018 #320
In other words Soros is DOING something about those issues instead of just talking about them? George II Jun 2018 #88
The Harris County DA is one of the DA's who was supported by Soros Gothmog Jun 2018 #356
Another Sanders thread? guillaumeb Jun 2018 #41
Post removed Post removed Jun 2018 #50
He's been doing the right thing for 50+ years. No need to "evolve" like some politicians. jalan48 Jun 2018 #80
Yes indeed... you'll never see Bernie with his finger in the air... InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2018 #102
+1 jalan48 Jun 2018 #113
+1 shanny Jun 2018 #116
During the last year of Obama's presidency mountain grammy Jun 2018 #127
I heard him call for our beloved president to be primaried. sheshe2 Jun 2018 #149
He also criticized the nomination because he said he was too conservative and promised EffieBlack Jun 2018 #152
Bernie has always set an example for what it means to be a real advocate for change... InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2018 #182
"Advocating" for change is great - but he's a U.S. Senator with the power to DO things EffieBlack Jun 2018 #185
Gee, I don't know... InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2018 #189
Wow. That's quite a stretch EffieBlack Jun 2018 #203
You wanna talk about stretching?! LOL InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2018 #209
Truth.. mountain grammy Jun 2018 #252
Love what you said here grammy... you put it into words better than anyone could have InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2018 #290
Thank you. mountain grammy Jun 2018 #373
You got that right grammy! And cuz of your appreciation for, and defense of Bernie... InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2018 #374
Haha.. that's great! mountain grammy Jun 2018 #377
This message was self-deleted by its author InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2018 #291
+1 BlueWI Jun 2018 #391
Oh, good Lord EffieBlack Jun 2018 #405
You say it's 'great' that he advocates for change Kentonio Jun 2018 #229
Enthusiasm is a great thing mountain grammy Jun 2018 #188
Don't say that to Bernie bashers, they might get upset and tell you, but Bernie is not a Democrat! InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2018 #190
It wins elections mountain grammy Jun 2018 #191
History shows that's what it takes to drive folks to the polls... not just buses. InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2018 #192
UMHMMM sheshe2 Jun 2018 #199
Please name one Democratic politician who can draw the crowds that Bernie draws. Sophia4 Jun 2018 #435
"Drawing crowds?" EffieBlack Jun 2018 #458
Rare indeed... why he has such a loyal following and his progressive ideals have taken hold. InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2018 #84
"HIS" progressive ideas have taken hold? EffieBlack Jun 2018 #100
I know! NurseJackie Jun 2018 #349
Bernie/Booker for 2020! rgbecker Jun 2018 #53
Do you have anything other than that tweet? In fact, the LA Times has an article on the rally.... George II Jun 2018 #57
The author of the tweet sheshe2 Jun 2018 #74
Yes - here's his LinkedIn profile: George II Jun 2018 #79
It figures. NurseJackie Jun 2018 #86
The key to filling up a theater for a rally - rent a tiny theater! George II Jun 2018 #93
Ha! NurseJackie Jun 2018 #97
The theater in Los Angeles -- probably cost a king's ransom. Sophia4 Jun 2018 #437
Bernie held several rallies in Southern California. Sophia4 Jun 2018 #436
Very nice! Owl Jun 2018 #60
He's never ever going to be president ismnotwasm Jun 2018 #68
Let's see how he responds when another Democrat tries to talk about it EffieBlack Jun 2018 #75
That's exactly right. You're not the only one who sees the inconsistency. NurseJackie Jun 2018 #87
That's an excellent idea ismnotwasm Jun 2018 #94
"He's never going to be president." BannonsLiver Jun 2018 #129
And getting Democratic voters to the polls this coming Tuesday (primaries in California). Sophia4 Jun 2018 #438
Our Revolution is not doing well in California Gothmog Jun 2018 #599
Nevertheless, Bernie got Democrats, especially young Democrats, out to vote. Sophia4 Jun 2018 #600
Do you have any proof this claim?? Gothmog Jun 2018 #601
Why do I need any? His appearances made the news. The news reports remind Sophia4 Jun 2018 #602
Sanders had little or no effect in the real world Gothmog Jun 2018 #603
Analysis: How did Bernie Sanders Democrats do in the primaries? Gothmog Jun 2018 #606
Wow! eom LittleGirl Jun 2018 #71
Did he finally release his tax returns? NanceGreggs Jun 2018 #96
is he the candidate? shanny Jun 2018 #117
He hoped to be the candidate ... NanceGreggs Jun 2018 #121
Tells me that somebody is moving the goalposts shanny Jun 2018 #122
It's not just the lack of disclosure ... NanceGreggs Jun 2018 #134
There are special rules for special candidates grantcart Jun 2018 #212
+1 mountain grammy Jun 2018 #136
No, that's not what it tells you. It tells you about hypocrisy. R B Garr Jun 2018 #268
He has been a candidate for Congress, Senate or president for the past 30+ years stevenleser Jun 2018 #352
I hope NOT. Cha Jun 2018 #367
A bigger crowd than the LA Times' "hundreds". He and Jane PROMISED them by the end of April..... George II Jun 2018 #143
Like Hillary's emails, no one gives a shit about the tax returns. (n/t) SMC22307 Jun 2018 #167
No one gave a shit about her emails because they read them AFTER SHE RELEASED THEM and saw there was EffieBlack Jun 2018 #170
Apparently ... NanceGreggs Jun 2018 #171
Thank you for bringing more Pro-Bernie news Donkees to DU! nt LostOne4Ever Jun 2018 #124
We need "Pro-" anyone "news"? What's the definition of "Pro-xxxxx news"? News??? George II Jun 2018 #135
Yeah, that is the purpose of this site to promote liberals and Liberalism! LostOne4Ever Jun 2018 #176
You know it! Bernie embodies the progressive spirit that drew me to DU many years ago. InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2018 #194
Yep sheshe2 Jun 2018 #206
Loves me some Bernie! FirstLight Jun 2018 #131
Yes, he was good.. same great message. mountain grammy Jun 2018 #262
Other Democrats should join him and say what they really think. Sophia4 Jun 2018 #439
Me too! nt Raine Jun 2018 #441
Looks like the Black turnout in that crowd was small nini Jun 2018 #145
I know, right? You're not the only one who noticed. NurseJackie Jun 2018 #339
Considering the Black vote stands to save this country he's got a huge problem nini Jun 2018 #342
Kind of like the Black voter turnout in 2016. progressoid Jun 2018 #358
I'm not sure why so many on DU talk about Bernie so much. He ditched the Democratic Party the catbyte Jun 2018 #147
.... sheshe2 Jun 2018 #172
NEWS FLASH! That photograph posted by Mr. Rabin-Havt appears to be FAKE!!! Sanders appeared... George II Jun 2018 #174
Lol. He spoke at the church and then at The Million Dollar Theater in LA. Back to the drawing board. Hassin Bin Sober Jun 2018 #207
The tweet was posted shortly after 5:00 PM local time, the Million Dollar Theater rally... George II Jun 2018 #464
What?! A fake photo??!! NurseJackie Jun 2018 #315
The only distortion of reality is claiming the church rally is the theater rally. Hassin Bin Sober Jun 2018 #378
Sanders was also at the Million Dollar theater in L.A. at 5 PM according to what I found online nini Jun 2018 #355
That trick he did with the loaves and fishes was awesome! VOX Jun 2018 #177
Heh. betsuni Jun 2018 #187
Took the words out of my mouth! n/t pnwmom Jun 2018 #213
Nailed it! NurseJackie Jun 2018 #312
Post removed Post removed Jun 2018 #470
Wow. That's an LA crowd? ... you sure it wasn't a bunch of Vermonters? fleabiscuit Jun 2018 #198
I imagine many people have also noticed the same thing... NurseJackie Jun 2018 #314
Indeed, Jackie EffieBlack Jun 2018 #319
There are reasons Bernie Sanders has a lot of supporters around the country. democrank Jun 2018 #214
Russian Trolls like to create conflict in the Democratic Party by attacking Bernie LostOne4Ever Jun 2018 #215
:ROFL: NurseJackie Jun 2018 #347
So posting facts is attacking Bernie? sheshe2 Jun 2018 #532
I'm over in Vermont about every day and can even get the lone Trumphumper I know to admit Vinca Jun 2018 #226
Here we go again... tavernier Jun 2018 #218
California has an important primary election in two days. ucrdem Jun 2018 #222
Some of his Ideas are Good for a Democracy where Social Justic Supports Social Democracy ... Civic Justice Jun 2018 #228
Part 2 Civic Justice Jun 2018 #233
Seems to me that we do make changes in leaps and jumps aikoaiko Jun 2018 #242
That's a good thing for people to converse and learn. Civic Justice Jun 2018 #243
I'm not waiting another 100 years shanny Jun 2018 #416
We won't have to, Obama's ACA was step one, Civic Justice Jun 2018 #447
That's more than a little misleading. Captain Stern Jun 2018 #236
Wow! I read upthread that this was circumstantial and R B Garr Jun 2018 #264
Bringing up Bernie sure seems to cause a lot of discord here - does that mean Bernie is "divisive" EffieBlack Jun 2018 #274
Wow! KPN Jun 2018 #299
Well, Bernie himself isn't being divisive here. Captain Stern Jun 2018 #306
Nicely done! Well played, you! NurseJackie Jun 2018 #348
;) sheshe2 Jun 2018 #526
There is not always a one-to-one correspondence when seats are filled still_one Jun 2018 #255
I am done with Bernie katmondoo Jun 2018 #271
again? KPN Jun 2018 #298
Apparently a lot of folks agree with Disney. KPN Jun 2018 #301
This is the Justice Reform Rally at the Million Dollar Theater. There were several events that day Donkees Jun 2018 #329
Yes there were. Thanks for posting. KPN Jun 2018 #351
That doesn't look anything like the Million Dollar Theater: George II Jun 2018 #516
Has sanders accomplished anything yet? Gothmog Jun 2018 #323
So, if I wanted to find a list of his major legislative accomplishments, where would I look? NurseJackie Jun 2018 #336
Well, there are a lot of post offices still unnamed. George II Jun 2018 #408
You bad. sheshe2 Jun 2018 #417
I want a Juanita Jean post office in my congressional district Gothmog Jun 2018 #422
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Jun 2018 #325
not a real strong heaven05 Jun 2018 #332
I am sure many here would have been much happier shanny Jun 2018 #418
I am sure heaven05 Jun 2018 #445
minor leaders of a very minor faction shanny Jun 2018 #451
strictly your opinion heaven05 Jun 2018 #545
Then Clinton could have taken the kid gloves off Gothmog Jun 2018 #576
asserting something that didn't happen is worthless shanny Jun 2018 #596
Sanders was a very weak general election candidate who would be destroyed Gothmog Jun 2018 #605
This message was self-deleted by its author chwaliszewski Jun 2018 #415
Apparently you do. SammyWinstonJack Jun 2018 #443
This message was self-deleted by its author chwaliszewski Jun 2018 #449
I place a great deal of blame on Sanders Gothmog Jun 2018 #490
This message was self-deleted by its author chwaliszewski Jun 2018 #498
BERNIE SANDERS VOTERS HELPED TRUMP WIN AND HERE'S PROOF Gothmog Jun 2018 #509
This message was self-deleted by its author chwaliszewski Jun 2018 #517
GOP voter suppression, Russia, Stein, Sanders, Comey and others bear a great deal of the blame Gothmog Jun 2018 #520
This message was self-deleted by its author chwaliszewski Jun 2018 #525
LOL-Hillary is not going to run again Gothmog Jun 2018 #531
This message was self-deleted by its author chwaliszewski Jun 2018 #533
Who cares? Gothmog Jun 2018 #536
This message was self-deleted by its author chwaliszewski Jun 2018 #537
I answered your question Gothmog Jun 2018 #538
This message was self-deleted by its author chwaliszewski Jun 2018 #539
You asked about Bernie, not Hillary. betsuni Jun 2018 #541
This message was self-deleted by its author chwaliszewski Jun 2018 #542
It is a good book Gothmog Jun 2018 #564
Clinton is not going to run again and so the attempt by sanders supporter to deflect amuse me Gothmog Jun 2018 #546
This message was self-deleted by its author chwaliszewski Jun 2018 #571
And yet sanders voters played a large role in the election of trump Gothmog Jun 2018 #573
This message was self-deleted by its author chwaliszewski Jun 2018 #585
LOL-I am amused that you are unable to deal with facts and reality Gothmog Jun 2018 #589
This message was self-deleted by its author chwaliszewski Jun 2018 #591
Hsve fun with the idiots on jPR Gothmog Jun 2018 #592
It cant be clearer who contributed to her loss. Yet, many so called progressives wont hear it. Eliot Rosewater Jun 2018 #559
Russia fed lies and fake news to sanders supporters Gothmog Jun 2018 #563
I mentioned somewhere that I frequent a youtube chat for a progressive talker Eliot Rosewater Jun 2018 #565
Russia is very skilled at feeding fake news to US voters Gothmog Jun 2018 #570
raises hand. Of course he did. Lil Missy Jun 2018 #528
This message was self-deleted by its author chwaliszewski Jun 2018 #540
Read the materials posted Gothmog Jun 2018 #604
I love Bernie, always have and Raine Jun 2018 #440
K&R.. disillusioned73 Jun 2018 #453
Well worth his time. About twenty percent of them will vote for him in the primary. NCTraveler Jun 2018 #466
"because he does what he does, because he cares" disillusioned73 Jun 2018 #486
Oh, Sanders' "arrest story". Wow! He was held in a gymnasium with dozens of others.... George II Jun 2018 #511
And they wonder why people roll their eyes at him EffieBlack Jun 2018 #518
Just for you: George II Jun 2018 #519
I love you! EffieBlack Jun 2018 #522
Why didn't he just book a bigger venue then? Blue_Tires Jun 2018 #493
..and then he handed out loaves and fishes to the crowd NastyRiffraff Jun 2018 #500
I am Jewish and we are still waiting for the first coming Gothmog Jun 2018 #569
:) NastyRiffraff Jun 2018 #588
You cannot have a second coming until you have the first Gothmog Jun 2018 #590
This is awesome Raysawesome34 Jun 2018 #593
Welcome to DU :) Donkees Jun 2018 #594
Thanks! Raysawesome34 Jun 2018 #595
Our Revolution is flopping Gothmog Jun 2018 #598

George II

(67,782 posts)
101. He's the Senator from Vermont in the midst of a re-election campaign....
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 10:46 PM
Jun 2018

....what's he doing out in California speaking at a rally, in the words of the LA Times, "attended by hundreds"?

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-bernie-sanders-disneyland-20180602-story.html

If he were my Senator I'd be mighty concerned with him ignoring his own constituency.

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
210. Congratulations George, you just won the 2018 Bernie Bashing Award in the catagory of...
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 03:20 AM
Jun 2018

Biggest Stretch to Nitpick and Find Some Picayune Reason for Criticizing Bernie... well done!!

George II

(67,782 posts)
245. Nitpicking? MY Democratic Senators don't travel around the country....
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 09:54 AM
Jun 2018

...when the Senate isn't in session, they both return to our state to meet with constituents and attend local events throughout the state.

That's what Senators who are dedicated to their constituents do. They are representing the people of our state.

brooklynite

(94,624 posts)
450. Actually, no they don't
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 09:25 AM
Jun 2018

Neither Schumer nor (despite the wishes of some folks here) Gillibrand are at the slightest risk of losing a Primary or a GE. Gillibrand's only "oppenent" (Berniecrat Scott Nolen) failed to get on the ballot.

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
463. Do you think crowds in California would come out to see speeches by Schumer
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 11:29 AM
Jun 2018

and Gillibrand? I don't know one way or the other. But I think it is a good practice for Democratic politicians to make themselves available to give inspiring speeches.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
586. Obsession with crowd size seems to be a theme with
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 08:04 PM
Jun 2018

white male candidates, doesn't it? Doesn't always predict performance at the polls, however...




George II

(67,782 posts)
513. Schumer and Gillibrand wouldn't go out to California to speak. They're too busy....
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 06:29 PM
Jun 2018

....addressing their own constituents in New York.

karynnj

(59,504 posts)
574. Sanders is called "Bernie" by most of his constituents and ANY Vermonter who has the least
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 02:54 PM
Jun 2018

interest in politics has likely met him at a town hall. He has done town halls across the state for years. Leahy, Welch and Sanders are all accessible.

George II

(67,782 posts)
580. Woohoo! Our two Senators are readily accessible too, and many of us are on a first name basis....
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 06:07 PM
Jun 2018

...with them as well as our Governor, and they have about six times the constituency than Vermont state-wide office holders.

Murphy did a walk across the state last Fall, met with hundreds (if not thousands) in the course of the walk AND held a Town Hall on each of the five nights during that walk.

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
385. Better luck next year...
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 08:11 PM
Jun 2018

BTW, here's the coveted Bernie Bashers Golden Hammer Award trophy that you missed out on, which will be awarded to the lucky winners at this year's Award night dinner banquet:



Keep working on it though... you may still get an Award in one of the 11 other categories.

karynnj

(59,504 posts)
219. I live in Vermont and saw him in Burlington Tuesday night
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 06:36 AM
Jun 2018

We were in a restaurant and saw him walking to his car through the restaurant's window. A few people took photos, most just looked and smiled. It is common enough, no one ran out.

I appreciate your concern, but he has an approval rating over 70 percent. Not to mention, he has no strong opposition in the primary or general election.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
310. If he's not concerned about the opppsition- why is he using the Dem party to help him? I'd have
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 12:50 PM
Jun 2018

thought he could easily get reelected without us? Is it just for money or other resources?

karynnj

(59,504 posts)
359. No, the Democratic party does not want a three way race
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 05:00 PM
Jun 2018

Where the Democtats have a weak candidate. If there is s super popular Democrat, he or she can still defeat him on the Democratic ballot.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
365. But if he has no plans to run as a democrat? Isn't that rigging it? Seems so.
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 05:28 PM
Jun 2018

Plus the whole joining and quitting has gotten old. It’s insulting, and only drains our resources. I don’t know what we get out of it, to be honest, except for a stab on the back.

karynnj

(59,504 posts)
370. No it is not rigging it
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 06:57 PM
Jun 2018

If a Democrat beats Bernie in the primary, he or she IS the Democratic nominee. Only if Bernie is stronger does he run without a Democratic opponent in the general election.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
371. So running in a primary under a party banner you plan to leave is straightforward normal and honest?
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 07:28 PM
Jun 2018

I think it’s pretty weird and deceptive. I bet a lot of voters expect him to stay Dem if they choose him as the Dem nominee. If a third party isn’t viable in a place like Vermont, why is Jane threatening Dems with one? None of it makes much sense to me.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
460. There can be no official Democratic candidate to run against him
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 11:21 AM
Jun 2018

That candidate would be denied funding and access to marketing and strategy.

Why do you think that Bernie does this instead of primary as an independent?

karynnj

(59,504 posts)
469. Even an incumbent is not seen as an "official candidate" of the Democratic party
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 11:55 AM
Jun 2018

The primary is to PICK the official Democratic nominee. The DSC, which would provide funds for Senate candidates, usually does not back anyone in a contested primary. They certainly would not award money for anyone to use in this primary where they (and all VT politicos) see Bernie as as a close to a sure thing as there is. You very likely remember that he got over 85% of the 2016 Presidential vote. Part of that was that a favorite son affect, but it also reflected that he is very respected here - even by the people who know him the best and know his flaws. How much money would you recommend that the DSC waste on any announced opponent to Bernie Sanders?

The process to get on the ballot and to set up a campaign is known. Because YOU, who are not a resident of Vermont, want Bernie out, you ignore that there is NO Democrat in the state who could beat Bernie Sanders. If Bernie had announced that he was NOT running, there would have been a set of serious candidates who would have run to get the position - just like in other states. The people who are running are not even of the caliber of the other primary challengers against powerful, well regarded Senators -- like Jonathan Tasini against Clinton in 2006.

PS In Vermont, being on the general election ballot as "independent" -- means that you are not representing a party. Therefore, it makes no sense to speak of "primary as an independent".


Have you even spent a day in the state of Vermont?

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
472. I find it ironic that Senator Sanders is the beneficiary of a process by where
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 12:20 PM
Jun 2018

the party chooses the candidate prior to the primary.

One doesn't need to spend a minute in Vermont to think that, does one?

And you are correct, I am not a resident of Vermont, so how could "wanting him out" be my perview or business? I find it interesting that you think it makes some sort of difference - enough to bring up.

I also find it interesting that if "no Democrat in the state could beat Bernie Sanders" it seems he wouldn't have to primary at all and simply announce his candidacy as an Independent while the Democratic Primary proceeds. Is that clearer?

But yet he primaries as a Democrat, with full plans to turn down the nomination and again run as the "anti-establishment" candidate once the establishment has prevented any Democratic challengers.



 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
478. I find it ironic...
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 12:40 PM
Jun 2018

that someone who isn't from Vermont thinks their opinion of Vermont politics is more important than that of someone from Vermont. I am glad to think that nothing you carpetbaggers do or say will change the fact that Senator Sanders is going to remain Senator Sanders in the next Session.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
481. Straw man much?
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 12:44 PM
Jun 2018
someone who isn't from Vermont thinks their opinion of Vermont politics is more important than that of someone from Vermont.


You certainly have misrepresented what I wrote, which was point out how someone else was giving my opinion far more weight than I am. Here it is, in case you missed it the first time:

And you are correct, I am not a resident of Vermont, so how could "wanting him out" be my perview or business? I find it interesting that you think it makes some sort of difference - enough to bring up.


Is that clearer?

Also, you use the word "carpetbagger." I do not think it means what you think it does.




 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
487. Nothing is ever clearer...
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 01:10 PM
Jun 2018

because you have explained things you don't have to ask me again. You have spent at least two posts explaining to karynnj why their impression of Vermont politics is flawed and they need to understand as you do. I understand you have not made a bag from carpet scraps and gone to a different state in hopes of exploiting the local populous. In this case I use it to refer to someone with no local connection or interest trying to affect a local race.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
496. Actually, no.
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 03:31 PM
Jun 2018
You have spent at least two posts explaining to karynnj why their impression of Vermont politics is flawed and they need to understand as you do.


I was defending my observations as being based in fact. Perhaps you are confusing me with Bettyellen? But you might want to try using smaller stones. That glass house looks pretty thin.

I understand you have not made a bag from carpet scraps and gone to a different state in hopes of exploiting the local populous.


Sweetie, we all know what you meant by calling me a carpetbagger, and you clearly are doubling down since you've been called out on it. No one is marching to Vermont to hurt Bernie. And from what I'm told, he's unbeatable, even if some meanie did. Look up defiinitions of words before you use them - you'll be more credible.

car·pet·bag·ger

a political candidate who seeks election in an area where they have no local connections.
historical

(in the US) a person from the northern states who went to the South after the Civil War to profit from the Reconstruction.

a person perceived as an unscrupulous opportunist.
"the organization is rife with carpetbaggers"


Like I said - that word doesn't mean what you think it does.

In this case I use it to refer to someone with no local connection or interest trying to affect a local race.


Still not any of the definitions of a "carpetbagger." I think you vastly overestimate the potential for my posts, or anyone else's on DU to affect a local race in Vermont.

However, are you talking about all the donations that come from outside Vermont to support his Senate campaign by people who have been convinced that Bernie will run for POTUS in 2020? Like the request for money that they sent to my sister in Pennsylvania, who never signed up for his mailing list? Can't imagine how his people would have gotten her email address...

Sisters and Brothers -
If we are going to defeat right-wing Republicans in 2018 and 2020, we need to win in states that Trump won, like Pennsylvania. And, in my view, the only way we win in those states is by supporting progressive candidates who have the guts to defend working-class families - white, black, Latino, Asian American, Native American - and take on the power and greed of the billionaire class.

Here's some very good news. In Pennsylvania there are three strong progressive candidates who can win their primary fights and win the general election. But they need your help...

Split a $3 donation between John Fetterman, Greg Edwards and Jess King. This is our chance to elect three great progressives who will help lead the fight against Donald Trump and the dangerous Republican agenda. They need our help to win in Pennsylvania.


Here's the donation page:

NOTE: Your contribution will be divided evenly between Jess King, John Fetterman, and 2 other groups. Click here to allocate amounts differently or view all recipients:

secure.actblue.com/donate/bernie-pennsylvania?refcode=em180501-t1-c


Here are the "two other other groups":

John Fetterman (PA-Lt Gov)
Greg Edwards (PA-07)

Jess King (PA-11)
Bernie Sanders (VT-Sen)


And unsurprisingly, Our Revolution had no problems WHATSOEVER with huge $$$ donations for their preferred candidate for Virginia governor Tom Periello coming from out of state - you know, people with no local connections or interest trying to affect a local race.

http://www.dailypress.com/news/politics/dp-nws-campaign-finance-governor-20170418-story.html

George Soros, the liberal billionaire Republicans often see as the financial boogeyman behind progressive causes, gave $250,000 to Democratic hopeful Tom Perriello's campaign. His sons kicked in another $135,000, possibly thanks to Virginia's lack of caps on political giving.




 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
497. I may well be overestimating...
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 03:41 PM
Jun 2018

the potential for your posts on DU to affect a local race in Vermont as it is impossible to underestimate your potential for affecting anything. With that in mind I am certain I have overestimated a lot about you.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
499. I guess you told me, huh?
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 05:14 PM
Jun 2018

I see you have no actual response, so you go for the playground taunt.

 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
505. I don't think there is any new thing...
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 05:38 PM
Jun 2018

that has been added to the "Senator Sanders is running in the Vermont Democratic Senate primary and won't accept the nomination" discussion in well over a month. You have added nothing new or unique to the discussion with this go around and frankly neither have I. There obviously has been no change of positions by either of us and no further understanding of where one and other stand. I still don't care that you find the Vermont Democratic Party and Senator Sanders to be wrong to pursue the strategy they have pursued together since 1991. It seems doubtful they care about your opinion either. I for one am glad to know that Senator Sanders will continue to be a Senator into the next session because of his actions and those of the Vermont Democratic Party.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
506. Well it's progress that you can finally admit that my opinion is not going to harm your Senator.
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 05:54 PM
Jun 2018

And I'm hoping that you are getting the idea that by articulating what I've observed isn't some accusation that you are flawed or need to think like I do. That's your invention, not my intent. This is a discussion forum, and differences are part of that. If that bothers you, I suggest you take a look at why you are here, and consider the possibility of your accusations of me to be projection.

We're adults here... and I guess I should be flattered that you feel a need to continue to reply to my posts when you say that I have "added nothing to the discussion" and "don't care" about my opinion. It makes your insults almost endearing.

I'm just expressing the irony in what I see when Senator Sanders seems to require the services of the Democrat establishment in Vermont to restrict funding and other support for any Democratic primary opponents.

It's important to understand that when any politician expands their ambition, they also expand the scrutiny. You may feel a need to jump in to cover Bernie's back more as his ambitions expand.

 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
510. Why would you call him...
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 06:13 PM
Jun 2018

my Senator? I'm a Californian my Senators are Feinstein and Harris. I do admire Senator Sanders, but he is hardly mine and I'm not sure what you mean when you say I may feel a need to jump in to cover Bernie's more as his ambitions grow.
When I wrote you have added nothing to the discussion, I only meant that everything you expressed in this thread has been expressed during previous discussions of this issue. My not caring is based on my thinking your ramblings on DU amount to a hill of beans outside of here. Just to be sure mine don't amount to anything greater than yours.
I too am observing. What I observe is a lot of people here are arguing that the Vermont Democratic Party should not leave the nomination blank if Senator Sanders wins, but declines the nomination. None of those people who are arguing that live in Vermont. For my part I think it is the business of the Vermont Democratic Party and the voters of Vermont so I think those who are out-of-state and sticking their noses in to this have no legitimacy.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
543. Mea culpa. I thought that you were from Vermont.
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 07:56 AM
Jun 2018
What I observe is a lot of people here are arguing that the Vermont Democratic Party should not leave the nomination blank if Senator Sanders wins, but declines the nomination.


I am not one of those people.

For my part I think it is the business of the Vermont Democratic Party and the voters of Vermont so I think those who are out-of-state and sticking their noses in to this have no legitimacy.


When you say, "sticking their noses in to this," you mean discussing it? Or just in a way that doesn't make you happy, or doesn't flatter Senator Sanders? You certainly seem to be "sticking your nose in this" with your posts....

When you say that those who are, "have no legitimacy," you mean that they have said something you don't like?

If differences in observations disturb you, then I suggest you use the ignore feature for anyone who disagrees with you.



 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
562. You sure are in a hurry to bully me off this board...
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 12:29 PM
Jun 2018

I've never used the ignore feature it seems to me like it would be a sign of being a weak suck, YMMV.
I will admit you have confused me greatly with your answer to my observation that a lot of people are arguing that the Vermont Democratic Party should not leave the nomination blank if Senator Sanders wins, but declines the nomination. You say:

I am not one of those people.

Does this mean you are cool with the arrangement Senator Sanders and the Vermont Democratic Party have arrived at? I had not detected that in either your tone or content. Anybody can be part of the peanut gallery and shout out what ever they want, but in a state election only the people of that state have a legitimate place to decide who qualifies to run for political office and how they run. This does eliminate me from having any legitimacy in this matter, but I'm lucky the Vermont Democratic Party and Senator Sanders are doing things I am in favor of.
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
567. No one is "trying to bully you off this board..."
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 01:13 PM
Jun 2018

The ignore feature is not "a sign of being a weak suck, YMMV," nor does it bounce you "off this board." It's a helpful feature for those who get very upset when certain other members post things. Clearly you do.

Does this mean you are cool with the arrangement Senator Sanders and the Vermont Democratic Party have arrived at? I had not detected that in either your tone or content. Anybody can be part of the peanut gallery and shout out what ever they want, but in a state election only the people of that state have a legitimate place to decide who qualifies to run for political office and how they run.


No, it means I haven't argued one way or another about this. I pointed out that it's ironic after 2016. Is that clearer?

But after saying....

I think those who are out-of-state and sticking their noses in to this have no legitimacy.


Your demand that I weigh in on that gives one whiplash...

karynnj

(59,504 posts)
483. The Democratic Party did NOT choose the candidate before the primary
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 12:58 PM
Jun 2018

Anyone can file the paperwork and get on the ballot against Sanders. All they did was to ENCOURAGE Sanders to file the paperwork and to get on the Democratic primary ballot, because he caucuses with the Democrats and the Democratic party needs to defend 25 seats currently held by Democrats and to challenge 9 Republican held seats. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/democrats-horrible-2018-senate-map-couldnt-have-come-at-a-better-time/

We need to keep ALL our seats and flip two to get the majority in the Senate. Sanders very likely would win the Democratic nomination as a write in, but it is possible that not enough people would bother to write him in without a campaign for people to do just that. Then, we face a three way race -- again, it is likely Sanders wins. Two questions? Would you argue that the DSC should fund and support the Democrat - knowing that he/she is likely the weakest of the three and the effect is that it would pull more votes from Sanders than the Republican? That would 100% waste money needed elsewhere and have some potential for giving a safe Sanders seat to the Republicans.

If you spent even a short time in Vermont, you would know that ordinary, unconnected people have far more ability to - and do - get their concerns heard by their elected officials. Disclaimer - the only states my husband and I have lived in that we can compare are NY, NJ and Indiana. We have been active in grassroots politics in all three. Vermont - hands down - has a culture where people can and do meet their mayors, governors, Senators and Representative and local officials.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
504. You can tell yourself that all you want.
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 05:37 PM
Jun 2018

But in terms of reality, yes, it hamstrings any democratic challengers.


The unauthorized Democratic candidate in 1990, Delores Sandoval, an African American faculty member at the University of Vermont, was amazed that the official party treated her as a nonperson and Bernie kept outflanking her to her right. She opposed the Gulf build-up, Bernie supported it. She supported decriminalization of drug use and Bernie defended the war on drugs, and so on.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1990/08/22/challenge-from-the-left-in-vermont/f10e03d5-0540-4c54-9c89-bd926503e5d7/


In 1993, Sandoval lamented the state party’s coordination against her much in the same way that Sanders now blasts the Democratic establishment.

“This lack of state party support even after the primary brings forth the question: were the voters deprived of their civil rights in not having their voice count when the Democratic party did not support the candidate of their Party and of their choice?” Sandoval wrote in a response to a Federal Elections Commission complaint against her campaign.

In her complaint, Sandoval reported that the Vermont Democratic party “did not even provide one dollar of financial support,” nor did it attempt to align her campaign with any relevant Political Action Committees.

http://www.talkmedianews.com/featured/2016/05/30/when-bernie-was-the-man/




Why do you think Bernie feels a need to do this, repeatedly if indeed he is so unbeatable?

And no, I don't need to spend any time in Vermont to point this out, and that seems to be your main rebuttal to my posts...

You seem to think that unless you live in Vermont, you can't make any observations about anything that goes on there.

Two questions? Would you argue that the DSC should fund and support the Democrat - knowing that he/she is likely the weakest of the three and the effect is that it would pull more votes from Sanders than the Republican?


It sounds like you think that the Democrat establishment should choose who is the most viable candidate prior to the primary, and restrict funding from any challengers. Interesting to say the least...

karynnj

(59,504 posts)
507. The people of Vermont will choose the nominees in the primaries and the Senator in the general
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 06:02 PM
Jun 2018

election. Here, the text in your copied block is from David Broder, essentially a Republican. (Note - Smith complains that Bernie Sanders was a celebrity and buttons just said Bernie. At that point, he had only been mayor of Burlington, where he did a great job. Miro Weinberger, the current mayor, has also done a very good job, but he is not known statewide. Bernie was known state wide because he went to town halls everywhere meeting with people all over the state. The fact that Smith made that comment showed that Sanders had created a following.

The second is from a person who comments on Fox News. As to Sandoval, maybe there was a reason - beyond money - that she got only 3% of the vote -- and was not endorsed by Madeline Kunin, an advocate for women in politics and a very nice person or Peter Welch or Pat Lashy.

The fact is the party almost always to some degree favors the incumbent -- and Bernie is the incumbent and he caucuses with the Democrats.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
544. So that makes it OK that the Democratic establishment selects
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 07:57 AM
Jun 2018

the Democratic candidate prior to the primary?



karynnj

(59,504 posts)
547. The Democratic establishment has not "chosen" the nominee
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 10:43 AM
Jun 2018

IF someone else gets more votes than Bernie, he/she will be the nominee. It is up to Vermont Democrats. The only thing the party did was to ASK Bernie to get his name on the ballot. He agreed, but then said that if he won he would decline the designation. That was an honest thing to do, rather than running without saying that. The fact is - he is easily the most popular politician in the state. (Note Howard Dean got nowhere near 85% of the primary vote in 2004 - that number reflects how popular he is - though most people did not think he had a chance to win the nomination from Hillary.)

By the way, consider that in Massachusetts, a candidate needs 15% of the delegates at the party convention to get on the Democratic primary ballot at all -- Vermont does not do that. You just need a relatively small number of signatures by Vermont voters.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
549. Are you saying that the Vermont Democratic establishment *didn't* select Bernie?
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 11:04 AM
Jun 2018

And hasn't every time he runs?

And that restricting funding and access to political action committees to any challenger isn't giving their chosen candidate a leg up?

The unauthorized Democratic candidate in 1990, Delores Sandoval, an African American faculty member at the University of Vermont, was amazed that the official party treated her as a nonperson and Bernie kept outflanking her to her right. She opposed the Gulf build-up, Bernie supported it. She supported decriminalization of drug use and Bernie defended the war on drugs, and so on.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1990/08/22/challenge-from-the-left-in-vermont/f10e03d5-0540-4c54-9c89-bd926503e5d7/


In 1993, Sandoval lamented the state party’s coordination against her much in the same way that Sanders now blasts the Democratic establishment.

“This lack of state party support even after the primary brings forth the question: were the voters deprived of their civil rights in not having their voice count when the Democratic party did not support the candidate of their Party and of their choice?” Sandoval wrote in a response to a Federal Elections Commission complaint against her campaign.

In her complaint, Sandoval reported that the Vermont Democratic party “did not even provide one dollar of financial support,” nor did it attempt to align her campaign with any relevant Political Action Committees.

http://www.talkmedianews.com/featured/2016/05/30/when-bernie-was-the-man/


And if he is "easily the most popular politician in the state" why does he feel the need to use this manuever every time he runs? Why does he use the Democratic establishment machine to hamstring any Democratic challenger, instead of letting the Democratic primary play out, then run against the actual Democratic challenger in the General, and getting that easy victory?

He raises money for his Senate re-election campaign from out of state as well. Being as he is, the most popular politician in the state, I'm curious as to why he seeks that outside money to win - and why he solicits that kind of "outside involvement from people who don't live in Vermont."

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10693163

karynnj

(59,504 posts)
560. It is pretty clear that you have never even visited Vermont
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 12:20 PM
Jun 2018

The Vermont state party does not fund people running in the primary. They also have no control over the DCCC and the DSC.

Your link is about a 1990 race and you are treating a losing candidate's comments as truth. Note that she complains that the state Democratic party did not give her money or "align her campaign with relevant Political Action Committees. The later is clearly something SHE and her campaign should have done.

Did you have a problem with Hillary Clinton having fund raisers ask for the maximum allowable in 2006 for both the primary (where her opponent was pretty unknown) and the general election against a very lame Republican -- mostly from outside the state? https://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/21/us/politics/21donate.html Consider that in 2006, like now, we were struggling to take back Congress - which we very narrowly did. If it is wrong for Bernie to raise money this year - either to have money to give via a leadership PAC or to run in 2020 - wasn't it wrong of Clinton too?

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
566. You keep saying that one needs to be in Vermont to have any sort of
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 12:41 PM
Jun 2018

right to discuss Vermont.

However... you are happy to defend the soliticiation of donations of of those not living in Vermont to support his campaign.

The link is about a Democratic candidate that tried to run against Bernie in the primary, and I believe she is the last one that attempted it. The fact that the last one was in 1990 I think shows just how effective using the Democratic establishment to eliminate any other official primary candidates has been for him. I just find that ironic in 2018.

And we have Hillary Whataboutism for the win! The last vestige of a losing argument concerning Sanders - and not even an accurate one! I never said a word about Hillary's fundraising - let alone against raising it from PACs. I was talking about Bernie Sanders directly soliciting donations from Pennsylvania, from Democrats that never signed up for his mailing list, but have been getting emails from Sanders since December of 2015. Just imagine the hue and cry if people here on DU who had never signed up for Onward Together started getting fundraising emails...

And to answer your question, no, I don't think it's wrong for Bernie to solicit money from any legal sources or for Hillary to do the same, despite your strawman. I was pointing out that YOU change your tune on "people who have never set foot in Vermont should not be involved - even posting on DU - when I point out that Bernie is more than happy for out of state financial involvement.

But do go on about "taking back congress," and trying to imply that I am the one being inconsistent here.

Anything to deflect from directly addressing the elephant in the room.






 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
568. By simply having this arrangement, they show that they selected Bernie as the candidate.
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 01:17 PM
Jun 2018
If you spent even a short time in Vermont


Copy and paste this all you like, but one does not have to be in Vermont to note the irony of this arrangement, or to comment on Senator Sanders.

When a politicians ambitions expand so does the scrutiny in equal measure. Especially when one's ambitions expand to the oval office. Bernie is sending emails soliciting funds to Pennsylvania residents. Clearly one doesn't need to spend even a short time in Vermont to be considered a donor by Bernie, so perhaps your defensiveness towards anyone outside Vermont who comments on Sanders's activities should be informed by that.

karynnj

(59,504 posts)
572. The Vermont Democratic party is doing what is best for the Vermont Democratic party
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 02:52 PM
Jun 2018

The action has MORE to do with the Vermont party - Not Sanders - and I am sick of Hillary supporters not over the 2016 primary smearing a wonderful state. Incidentally, I do not think Bernie should be our 2020 nominee. I DO agree that it makes sense for the Democratic party here to encourage Sanders to be on their ballot. This is NOT a race that the party should have to waste money on. Yet, your posts seem to suggest that they should have wasted money in 1990. No amount of money would have made someone who got 3% of the vote the winner. 3% when she was listed as the Democrat, shows she had practically no grassroots support.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
575. And they believe that making sure that Bernie is the official Democratic candidate
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 03:39 PM
Jun 2018

to the exclusion of being open to any others is what is best for the Vermont Democratic party. I don't doubt that at all.

I'm just saying that we should call it what it is, and not dance around the idea that many find it ironic.

I am sick of Hillary supporters not over the 2016 primary smearing a wonderful state.


If you call pointing out the facts are "a smear" then that's on you. It sounds like HRC supporters aren't the ones who are "not over the primary," as you put it.

Yet, your posts seem to suggest that they should have wasted money in 1990.


Where do they suggest that? I simply posted what was written. Attacking straw men does not further your case.


Response to ehrnst (Reply #575)

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
582. What part of the Vermont Democratic party picking Bernie as the
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 07:15 PM
Jun 2018

candidate prior to the primary is non-factual? Honey, if you want to ignore reality, sure, anyone can file paperwork. But those of us who don't ignore reality understand when a candidate is being prevented from accessing the resources that official candidates gets. You could file the paperwork - does that mean you have any kind of chance of being a viable candidate? Please.

The entire point of the except about 1990 was about the party not giving money or support to a candidate that they correctly assessed could not win. YOU obviously posted that for some reason.


No, it was about how the candidate was kept out of funding and connections with PACs. That was the reason. Is that clearer?

However, one thing I hated was that the Clinton campaign considered it fair game to attack Vermont - in a way I have never seen a state attacked before in any primary.


Can you specify how the "Clinton campaign considered it fair game to attack Vermont - in a way I have never seen a state attacked before in any primary."

And once again, the Whataboutism concerning Hillary whenever anyone points out an inconsistency in Senator Sanders is just amazing. And glass house cheap shots at Arkansas (so, have YOU ever stepped foot in Arkansas? Somehow I doubt that...) don't give your attempts to derail the discussion any more credibility than a seemingly endless supply of strawmen to attack...






George II

(67,782 posts)
583. For the life of me I don't recall any "attacks" on Vermont.
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 07:57 PM
Jun 2018

What would have been the point of doing that?

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
584. Neither do I.
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 07:59 PM
Jun 2018

But a lot of malfeasance is attributed to HRC's campaign that didn't happen. Apparently the wilder the accusation, the more some people are willing to believe it.

The Russian and GOP propaganda machines found some very eager consumers on the left, didn't they?

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
429. Bernie is campaigning to get Democrats out to vote.
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 02:17 AM
Jun 2018

He is not using the Dem party to help him, he is helping the Democratic Party.

The Democratic Party primary is this Tuesday in California. This is a "get out the Democratic vote," remind Democrats to vote campaign tour.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
461. He is using the Democratic party in Vermont to exclude any Dem primary opponents.
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 11:24 AM
Jun 2018

With their cooperation.

Is that clearer?

Gothmog

(145,359 posts)
491. The stunt that sanders is pulling in Vermont is very sad
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 02:44 PM
Jun 2018

Sanders is running in the Democratic Primary and they will withdraw and keep the Vermont Democratic Party from having anyone on the ballot. In Texas, the Democratic Party could replace a candidate on the ballot who pulled this stunt

This stunt will hurt Democratic down ballot candidates

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
494. What other individual running as a Democrat or Independent can draw crowds
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 02:50 PM
Jun 2018

(and thus voters) as Bernie can?

Could it be his personality?

Or is it maybe his message?

Is he offering hope to working people while so many others offer silence on economic and justice issues?

Most Democrats probably agree with his stances on wages, our justice system and other issues, but who is willing to speak up and risk offending donors who may have "special interests"?

Anyone who draws crowds like Bernie?

Gothmog

(145,359 posts)
501. If sanders runs in the Democratic primary and wins, then he needs to run in General election
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 05:27 PM
Jun 2018

This disgusting stunt has sanders running in the Democratic primary and then not running in the general election if he wins the primary. The result is that the Vermont Democratic Party does not have a candidate on the general election ballot.

In most states, the party could replace on the ballot a candidate who pulls this stunt.

Sanders can avoid any issue simply by either not running in the Democratic primary or running in the general election as a Democrat

 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
512. Actually he is avoiding any issue...
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 06:18 PM
Jun 2018

by running in cooperation with the Vermont Democratic Party. He just isn't avoiding your dislike.

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
530. Who can compete with Trump when it comes to drawing crowds?
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 10:06 PM
Jun 2018

Call it whatever, but we need someone like Bill Clinton, Bernie or Obama who has charisma. The ability to draw and excite a large crowd for your ideas is one of the indications of charisma. No point in running and supporting a candidate if that candidate can't do that one, most basic political thing.

betsuni

(25,550 posts)
534. I just looked up crowds and it's interesting.
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 12:10 AM
Jun 2018

Mondale ("Nobody who's been with me for the last few days and seen these crowds ... something's happening in this country" ), Dukakis ("It's something in the crowds. Something is happening" ), Kerry, Romney, all were sure they'd win because of large enthusiastic crowds.

So historically I guess size doesn't always matter in the end.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
561. But if they just make sure that they get a venue near a college campus
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 12:21 PM
Jun 2018

then that always gets a turnout that will also make a lot of noise and applause. Good marketing.

However, some candidates are told that having large crowds makes them appear to expect to be "crowned with the nomination" so going to listening sessions is preferable.

Because really, how can one listen if one is lecturing? Listening is how one learns.

Oh, wait...

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
579. Yes. But being able to speak well enough to draw a crowd while it does not
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 05:40 PM
Jun 2018

indicate the ability to win without a doubt, should be a fundamental requirement for any candidate for the presidency.

When people go to hear a speech by a politician, it suggests that they are more likely to get out and go to the polls and vote for that politician than if they don't bother to get out and go to a speech by him/her.

It's one of a number of key indicators -- the ability to inspire voters to come to see you speak.

It's no guarantee of a win, but it should be a prerequisite for a run for president.

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
427. He is trying to get California Democrats to get out and vote.
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 02:14 AM
Jun 2018

Our primary election is Tuesday.

Bernie is trying to get people to vote for Democrats.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
448. He was there to urge Anaheim residents to vote for a municipal ballot initiative affecting only them
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 08:58 AM
Jun 2018

sheshe2

(83,804 posts)
3. Ah.
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 08:41 PM
Jun 2018

Quick work to build a stage add a podium, barricades and sound system after the theater filled up. Wow. I applaud the crew that built all that so quickly.

Hekate

(90,727 posts)
7. Riiiight. Did he ever talk to the people who were actually inside waiting for him? And was there...
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 08:57 PM
Jun 2018

...an outside sound system to handle the overflow crowds?

Such a saint.

sheshe2

(83,804 posts)
13. I also noticed a lot of the attention of the crowd???
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 09:07 PM
Jun 2018

Cameras and people seem to be focused on something else. Look to the right side of the picture. Do you know who else appeared with Bernie?

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
282. Kennedy is no longer with us and Dingell retired.
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 11:16 AM
Jun 2018

And I could probably count on one finger the percentage of Americans who could name John Dingell or any of his positions. Sanders is well-known with high approval ratings, and has been the most vocal proponent of Medicare for All. Glad to see Kamala and others on board.

George II

(67,782 posts)
287. The point is that everyone is talking about Medicare for All like it's Sanders'....
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 11:27 AM
Jun 2018

....revolutionary idea and he's a pioneer on the issue, despite the fact that John Dingell SENIOR first introduced the idea of "Medicare for All" way back in 1943 (two years after Sanders was born)

And despite the fact that John Dingell Jr. is now retired, his wife Debbie Dingell is now in that seat and SHE is promoting the concept of Medicare for All. Good to see that Sanders is on board with Kennedy's and the Dingells' decades-long proposal.



Hekate

(90,727 posts)
317. Not to mention, iirc, that when LBJ got it through he intended people to love it so much for grandma
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 01:12 PM
Jun 2018

...that they would want it for their kids, and then for themselves.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,175 posts)
324. No the point is someone is taking up the torch. someone with the visibility to give it a kick
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 01:30 PM
Jun 2018

Did you want it to die along with the Dingells when they finally leave us?

What is it with this obsession with Bernie not getting any credit for anything. So he could put years, decades into a good cause but darn it he's just a usurper, hes a thief, because he didn't first speak about it (because he was a child at the time). Golly gee, I'll bet someone's also talked about higher minimum wages, maternity leave...

I'll bet even the idea of free college was one he didn't invent either so he should just drop that too.

What do you know? A bit of googling and I find out it was first proposed in Arizona in 1935!

https://www.edvisors.com/plan-for-college/money-saving-tips/colleges-with-free-tuition/history-of-free-college-tuition/

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
331. So, let me get this straight
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 01:50 PM
Jun 2018

If Bernie doesn't "give it a kick," it won't have any visibility and if he doesn't "take up the torch," the issue will "die along with the Dingells when they finally leave us?""

Because 65-year-old representative Debbie Dingell is the only person in Congress besides Bernie addressing the issue and when she "leaves us," thank God the currently-76-year-old Bernie to be there to keep the fight going?

Golly gee, indeed.

DURHAM D

(32,610 posts)
70. Well, BS hasn't said anything new in almost 60 years
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 10:19 PM
Jun 2018

so I assume they were bored and easily distracted.

mountain grammy

(26,629 posts)
95. He's been saying the same things for almost 60 years.
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 10:40 PM
Jun 2018

and that's why we love him.. he never had to change or evolve on civil rights, gay rights, women's rights or human rights and neither have I, so I'm never bored or distracted by someone who has held most of the same beliefs as me as long as he's been a public figure. He never once said for political gain "marriage is between a man and a woman." He never, for political gain, demanded secrecy and silence from gays in the military.

Did you have to 'evolve' on any of the rights listed above? Many Democrats have you know.


mountain grammy

(26,629 posts)
119. What he wasn't doing was voting for
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 10:59 PM
Jun 2018

'don't ask don't tell' or DOMA. Bernie opposed both.. he's been doing plenty. If more representatives would speak up and speak out loud and often, maybe Congress would have restored the voting rights act, maybe Obama would have had his SCOTUS pick as he should have,maybe we'd have universal health care and, maybe, just maybe, we'd have a cleaner and fairer justice system. Yes, silence hasn't worked so well for us.

Would you be happier if he said nothing? Should he not speak out about injustice, about inequality, about racism? Do you not want public figures to speak out on these issues, or is it just Bernie Sanders?

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
133. No - he was voting for the crime bill and "speaking out" against things while others were doing the
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 11:17 PM
Jun 2018

heavy lifting.

No one denies he speaks up loud and often - that’s the problem. All he does is talk but he doesn’t actually do anything - and all-too-often it would be better if he just stayed quiet.

For example, if Bernie had bothered to actually fight for President Obama’s Supreme Court nominee instead of whining that the was too conservative and promising that, if elected president, he would withdraw Garland’s nomination and replace him with someone else, that would have been helpful.

Speaking of “more representatives” needing to speak up like Bernie, you’ve heard of the Congressional Black Caucus, right? While Bernie’s off somewhere “speaking out,” they’re actually doing something. So are plenty of other representatives. But y’all go ahead and keep telling us about how Bernie’s ideas are finally catching on.


Congressmen arrested for protesting over immigration outside Trump Tower

September 19, 2017

Three congressmen were among a group of protesters arrested outside Trump Tower on Tuesday, where they were participating in a demonstration in support of immigrants and protections recently ended by the Trump administration.

Democratic Reps. Luis Gutierrez of Illinois, Raul Grijalva of Arizona and Adriano Espaillat of New York were arrested on civil disobedience charges along with the speaker of the New York City Council, Melissa Mark-Viverito, and six others, according to lawmakers' offices and Robin Levine, the spokeswoman with Mark-Viverito's office.



https://www.cnn.com/2017/09/19/politics/congressmen-arrested-trump-tower-daca/index.html


Congressman Gutierrez Arrested At White House Protest
July 26, 2011

U.S. Rep. Luis Gutierrez (D-Illinois) was arrested during an immigration protest at the White House on Tuesday.

Gutierrez spokesman Douglas Rivlin confirmed the congressman was arrested outside the White House Tuesday afternoon, along with about 11 other people who were sitting on the sidewalk in front of the White House as part of an immigration protest.
?w=640&h=360&crop=1

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/07/26/congressman-gutierrez-arrested-at-white-house-protest/


8 Congressmen Arrested During Immigration Rally In D.C.
October 8, 2013

At least eight Democratic members of the House were among about 200 people arrested Tuesday after they blocked a main street near the Capitol during a massive rally seeking to push Republicans to hold a vote on a stalled immigration reform bill.

Police would not identify those arrested. Representatives of the social policy organization Center for Community Change and The Associated Press witnessed the arrests of Reps. John Lewis, D-Ga.; Luis Gutiérrez, D-Ill.; Raúl Grijalva, D-Ariz.; Keith Ellison, D-Minn.; Joseph Crowley and Charles Rangel, both D-N.Y.; Al Green, D-Texas; and Jan Schakowsky, D-Ill.,
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/10/08/rep-john-lewis-arrested-during-washington-rally/



5 Lawmakers Arrested In Darfur Protest

April 27, 2006

Five Congress members were arrested and led away from the Sudanese Embassy in plastic handcuffs Friday in protest of the Sudanese government's role in atrocities in the Darfur region.
"The slaughter of the people of Darfur must end," Rep. Tom Lantos, D-Calif., a Holocaust survivor who founded the Congressional Human Rights Caucus, said from the embassy steps before his arrest.

Four other Democratic Congress members — James McGovern and John Olver of Massachusetts, Sheila Jackson Lee of Texas and Jim Moran of Virginia — were among 11 protesters arrested on charges of disorderly conduct and unlawful assembly, a misdemeanor subject to a fine.






https://www.cbsnews.com/news/5-lawmakers-arrested-in-darfur-protest/

mountain grammy

(26,629 posts)
142. . yes, I remember that photo of Sheila Jackson Lee..
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 11:28 PM
Jun 2018

what a look she gave them all. She's something else and still re-claiming her time.

I heard Bernie many times speaking out about GOP obstruction of Obama's choice. I never saw an interview where he didn't bring it up.

I proud of every Congressperson who puts themselves out there. There are far too few. I'm glad Sanders is one of them.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
150. He "spoke out" - so what? He's a US senator. Did he DO anything besides promise
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 11:35 PM
Jun 2018

Last edited Sun Jun 3, 2018, 11:00 PM - Edit history (1)

to withdraw the nomination?

I suspect President Obama would have preferred if the good Senator had just kept his mouth shut because, not helpful, Bernie.

mountain grammy

(26,629 posts)
273. And exactly what did Democrats "do" about the SC vacancy??
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 11:02 AM
Jun 2018

Huh? and what is justbkeotbhis? Never heard President Obama use that. I'm honestly curious as to what that means..

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
284. I'm not talking about the other Democrats. I'm talking about Bernie
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 11:20 AM
Jun 2018

The other Democrats aren't going around claiming they did more than anyone else.

But since you asked, here's one example. Many Democrats worked directly with civil rights organizations to strategize and push back on Republican obstruction of Garland. They sat down with them and worked hand-in-hand with them, helped them shape messages and to generate grassroots pushback in communities across the country through protests, letter writing, calls, emails. It ultimately proved unsuccessful, but they got in there and helped, as they often do on civil rights and social justice issues. Bernie never participated in any of this. And people in the civil rights community were pretty disgusted when he undermined their efforts by saying that if he was elected president, he would withdraw Garland's nomination and select someone more liberal.

In fact, Bernie rarely works with us on these issues. He's just not in the mix, and not because he hasn't been asked.

So the idea that his supporters are trying to convince people that he took the lead in fighting for Garland because he "spoke out" is laughable and counter-factual, to put it nicely. I know better.

sheshe2

(83,804 posts)
394. Well
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 10:53 PM
Jun 2018
I heard Bernie many times speaking out about GOP obstruction of Obama's choice. I never saw an interview where he didn't bring it up.


Well I heard he wanted a sitting, very popular President primaried. Did you support that?

doxyluv13

(247 posts)
208. Blaming Bernie for GOP obstruction of Obama's Supreme Court choice is libelous.
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 02:47 AM
Jun 2018

Is divisiveness your only goal?

Please remove the picture of Thurgood Marshall from your profile. He'd puke if he read your posts.

Hekate

(90,727 posts)
326. Bernie, who ran for potus as a Dem, went on record SAYING he would ditch Garland if elected. WHY
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 01:35 PM
Jun 2018

...did he feel compelled to JOIN REPUBS in running down Merrick Garland at a crucial time? WHY?

Of course he didn't lead the GOP or anything of the sort. But he certainly made it easier for them to stall until the election was over and Hillary lost, then stall until Obama was gone and then get their own man into the SCOTUS so the SCOTUS now has a historic rightward tilt.

I fail to understand Bernie's motives.

Tom Rinaldo

(22,913 posts)
334. If anything that helped Garland, not enough obviously...
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 02:00 PM
Jun 2018

The only argument that made any of the Republicans have any second thoughts about stonewalling Garland was the possibility that they could lose the presidency in November and potentially be faced with a new nominee less centrist than Garland was then perceived to be. Without that threat it was a freebie for Republicans to block Garland. If they won the presidency they could get a rightist on the court. If they lost the presidency they still got the guy who was in part chosen to overcome their objections in the first place. Fear that a more liberal justice might be the next nominee instead was their only real incentive to seat Garland before the election.

MountCleaners

(1,148 posts)
237. That's my problem with Bernie supporters
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 09:21 AM
Jun 2018

For decades I've lived in a district represented by various Black Caucus members. They are the true progressive leadership in the Congress and Bernie supporters don't follow them or their activities, and give them NO credit. I've talked to some of them and they barely know who the Black Caucus is or what their positions are.

BuddhaGirl

(3,608 posts)
376. Exactly
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 07:54 PM
Jun 2018

I saw Bernie on Bill Maher's show on Friday and he made his usual stump speech points - all of which I agree with - but he didn't mention women or women's issues once and only mentioned Black Lives Matter one time (but didn't elaborate).

Didn't.Mention.Women.Once.

I really hope he doesn't run for president again. I think he is more suited to the Senate.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
379. Agreed
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 08:04 PM
Jun 2018

And his rants usually consist of a string of sentences beginning with “We gotta ...” to which his fans cheer and cheer because he named the problem.

“We claim to have justice for all in this country. That would be naïve to believe. We have one system of justice for the wealthy and another system for the poor and people of color.”

While I think, “We’ll, duh. I already knew that. Knew that a long time ago. What are you gonna DO about it?”

Nothing like hearing a U.S. Senator saying “Somebody oughta do something!”

Gothmog

(145,359 posts)
420. I am friends with several CBC members
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 12:58 AM
Jun 2018

Heck Al Green was arrested back in 2012 with George Clooney before Clooney was married. He offered to raffle off Clooney's cell number at a fundraiser

Gothmog

(145,359 posts)
321. Houston congressman arrested with George Clooney
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 01:24 PM
Jun 2018

Congressman Al Green had fun being arrested https://www.click2houston.com/news/houston-congressman-arrested-with-george-clooney_20151124151855447

Houston U.S. Rep. Al Green (D-TX) was arrested Friday outside of the Sudanese Embassy in Washington, D.C., along with movie star George Clooney and several elected leaders and civil rights activists.

On Saturday, Green told Local 2 he thinks he made the right decision, even if it meant going to jail.

"You can arrest people, but you can't stop them from standing up for what they believe in for others," Green said. "And that arrest was a small price to pay if we can save one child's life, feed one child. What a small price to pay."

They were protesting a humanitarian crisis in Sudan that threatens to lead to the starvation and genocide of thousands of people.

"I have paid a fine. I've been released, and I'm proud to say I was arrested for a cause I will never be ashamed of," said Green.

I was at a fundraiser the day after this happened. People tried to get Al to auction off Clooney's phone number

George II

(67,782 posts)
180. So, what are his results, specifically, in those 60 years? BTW....
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 12:28 AM
Jun 2018

...he's 76 years old, he's been saying that since he was 16? How do we know?

He also said some strange things when he was 30, if he hasn't evolved in 60 years does he still believe those things?

sheshe2

(83,804 posts)
193. Hm
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 01:02 AM
Jun 2018
mountain grammy
95. He's been saying the same things for almost 60 years.

and that's why we love him.. he never had to change or evolve on civil rights, gay rights, women's rights or human rights and neither have I, so I'm never bored or distracted by someone who has held most of the same beliefs as me as long as he's been a public figure. He never once said for political gain "marriage is between a man and a woman." He never, for political gain, demanded secrecy and silence from gays in the military.

Did you have to 'evolve' on any of the rights listed above? Many Democrats have you know.


So change is not good? Evolving, growing, knowing, learning is a bad thing? 60 years? So he learned all he had to know about life was at 16 and has never grown past those years? These are your words, not mine. He knew life's intricate structures about women, human rights, civil rights, gays and their right of choice. Your words, he has been saying this for 60 years. He is 76. So he learned all he needed to know at 16 years old and has never changed his opinion. Are you serious?

KPN

(15,646 posts)
200. +1.
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 01:54 AM
Jun 2018

And for most of those years a relative lone elected official voice. The man has a seemingly endless reserve of persistence, consistency, and unapologetic frankness to go along with his common sense view of the times and world we live in. He speaks and has been saying for decades exactly what is on the minds of many. He never triangulates. Which is all why millions are inspired by, admire and as you say, love and admire him.

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
247. Yeah, no one says that about Bernie, or most politicians.
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 10:00 AM
Jun 2018

But there was a helluvalotta swooning over Obama. Nice projection, Eff!

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
276. That's funny. If I cared enough I'd dig up...
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 11:08 AM
Jun 2018

old threads, especially the one with pics of him in the ocean. The cowboy hat. The dark sunglasses. Etc.

 

AtomicKitten

(46,585 posts)
521. I admit I swooned over Obama in 2008.
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 08:39 PM
Jun 2018

He campaigned as a leftie liberal but governed as a centrist. With a filibuster-proof (for approximately 60 days) congress, he and the corporate Democrats gave us right-wing think tank (Heritge Foundation) medical insurance reform. Why? Because of the corrupt, corporate Democrats we're told are the only ones that can win. What's the point if they reliably vote with the Republicans? He promised to end the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Instead he expanded our footprint to seven countries. But I digress. I wept in 2008 when Obama was elected.

George II

(67,782 posts)
354. What's wrong with "swooning" over Obama?
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 03:57 PM
Jun 2018

As a straight man, even I find him attractive and if I were a woman I'd sure swoon over him!

Even if he wasn't physically attractive (DAMN I'm jealous of that smile!) just his demeanor, speech delivery, upbeat personality and of course ideology would make anyone "swoon" over him, man or woman. Not a combination one finds often in politicians these days.

On top of that, he won the Democratic nomination for President in 2008 (certainly swoon-worthy), won the election, and re-election in 2012.

If that doesn't make one admire him, i.e., "swoon", I don't know what would.

JI7

(89,254 posts)
398. What's with the attacks on Obama ? He was President and many were Happy to have him there
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 11:10 PM
Jun 2018

and enjoyed seeing the things he was doing and posting about it .

i wish we had him or another democrat as president now.

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
211. Your damn right KPN, Bernie doesn't triangulate... and I, like millions of others, are
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 03:33 AM
Jun 2018

damn proud of Bernie for that!! I know that's disappointing to some, who buy into "Third-Way" politics, but that's who Bernie is and, just ONE of the many reasons why we love and admire the guy.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
217. I've been saying many of the same things for years, too.
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 06:16 AM
Jun 2018

I would expect more than talk from a career politician after 30+ years on Capitol Hill.

However, I've also changed my opinions when I got new facts or data on a topic, because I respect expertise and scholarship. I would expect that from any person with intellectual curiosity, let alone after decades in leadership.

I think that rigidity of thought is often confused for constancy.

“A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day. — 'Ah, so you shall be sure to be misunderstood.' — Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.”

Ralph Waldo Emerson

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
244. Great post. He never needed to "evolve,"
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 09:53 AM
Jun 2018

he was on the right side from the beginning.

The entertainment value of those twisting for those who DID need to evolve is priceless.

mountain grammy

(26,629 posts)
256. But evolve they did and good for them
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 10:39 AM
Jun 2018

when I heard Obama say. "I believe marriage is between a man and a woman" my heart just sank..but he changed and that's good. Clinton did too. Now, did they really believe in what they stated? If not, that means they were speaking strickly for political gain and not out of a deep seated religious belief, but let's not go there. The important thing is they changed, and if a few gays died for the cause along the way... meh.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
382. It's a shame Sanders took a while to evolve then- since 2006
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 08:06 PM
Jun 2018

is not “always”. There’s always so much fake news about his campaign, sucks the Russians latched on to him, isn’t it?

George II

(67,782 posts)
399. You do realize that Sanders didn't support same sex marriage as recently as 2006, maybe even....
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 11:11 PM
Jun 2018

....more recently.

I could reiterate most of your post above with respect to Sanders but you get the point.

 

disillusioned73

(2,872 posts)
455. Your wrong...
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 11:06 AM
Jun 2018

Bernie voted against DOMA in 1996 - get your smear game on point...

[link:http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/sep/29/chuck-todd/nbcs-chuck-todd-bernie-sanders-there-same-sex-marr/|

"On DOMA itself, Sanders was part of a smaller group of opponents, just 67. The bill passed and President Bill Clinton signed it in September."

George II

(67,782 posts)
459. ("Your wrong"?) No, I'm NOT wrong, and my "smear game", as you put it....
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 11:17 AM
Jun 2018

.....IS on point (need you be insulting?)

Like many of his other votes (i.e., gun control, Russia sanctions, 1994 crime bill, etc.), he left himself an "out" - Sanders voted against DOMA because he felt the issue was one of states' rights, not that he was against the actual content of the bill. He felt each state should decide for itself. In fact, he WAS against same-sex marriage at the time, and remained so at least until 2006, perhaps even beyond 2006.

"In 2006, he took a stand against same-sex marriage in Vermont, stating that he instead endorsed civil unions. Sanders told the Associated Press that he was “comfortable” with civil unions, not full marriage equality."

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2015/10/05/bernie_sanders_on_marriage_equality_he_s_no_longtime_champion.html

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
384. The Russian trolls out a lot of energy into Bernie myths on FB and people still believe them today!
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 08:11 PM
Jun 2018

Response to bettyellen (Reply #380)

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
403. Sanders is ok with individual, fundamental rights being upheld - or not - on a state by state basis?
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 11:21 PM
Jun 2018

Interesting.

Eliot Rosewater

(31,112 posts)
467. Tax returns, etc., this, that , the other. List is long, but folks ignore the long list of issues
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 11:45 AM
Jun 2018

for some reason.

Pretty sad.

Now that the illegal SC has decided bigotry against gay people is legal, we are in for it big time.

I now who the allies are and ARE NOT.

Gothmog

(145,359 posts)
477. To get onto the ballot in a number of blue states, sanders will have to file tax returns
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 12:38 PM
Jun 2018

This is the case in Maryland already and a number of other states will be adopting ballot access laws that will require the release of tax returns to be on the ballot

Eliot Rosewater

(31,112 posts)
479. FanFUCKINGtastic. Now EVERYBODY will start at first base. Wait, if that isnt
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 12:40 PM
Jun 2018

happening in every state then someone can just ignore those states and if they are small enough... ... ...

Personally I am unable to understand why anybody would support a candidate who refused to do this.

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
431. And yet, we don't have tuition-less public colleges and universities, universal healthcare
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 02:22 AM
Jun 2018

and all the things he has been saying for 60 years.

Once we get fair wages, etc., then maybe Bernie will think of some new answers to our problems.

The crowds love him.

Does any other Democrat draw crowds like that?

DURHAM D

(32,610 posts)
433. By crowd I assume you mean a few hundred people and
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 02:35 AM
Jun 2018

yes many DEMOCRATS draw bigger crowds. Elizabeth Warren and Kamala Harris to name a few.

R B Garr

(16,955 posts)
270. I swear to Gawd, George, that is exactly the term I think of
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 11:00 AM
Jun 2018

now when I see these threads. Fake legislation, now crowds that were there to see a movie. You described it perfectly.

sheshe2

(83,804 posts)
400. Why in the world would anyone feel the need to exaggerate crowd size.
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 11:14 PM
Jun 2018

When in truth the "huge crowd" was there to see a movie. Perhaps that is why the OP image shows many cameras facing away from the podium. Was this a movie premier and perhaps some celebs were present?

Gothmog

(145,359 posts)
421. You are using facts against a silly talking point
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 12:59 AM
Jun 2018

Facts get in the way of talking about bernie's many accomplishments

Captain Stern

(2,201 posts)
234. You are asking questions that you already know the answer to.
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 09:13 AM
Jun 2018

Nothing wrong with that..it is what it is.

Bernie's words are so awesome that a building can't contain them, safely. I am glad that he had the forethought (but, of course, he would have) to provide contingencies just in case his awesomeness flowed outside.

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
430. Yes. Bernie often draws such large crowds that he has to speak to many people
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 02:20 AM
Jun 2018

outside the official venue.

Can you name another Democrat that draws crowds as large as that?

sheshe2

(83,804 posts)
502. Obama for one...
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 05:34 PM
Jun 2018
Barack Obama
Obama tells adoring crowd in Berlin: ‘We can’t hide behind a wall’

Former US president gets hero’s welcome as he reunites with Angela Merkel and urges crowd to ‘fight those who divide us’



Speaking in front of the Brandenburg Gate, which was once cut off by the Berlin Wall, the former US president was greeted with cries of “Barack, Barack” as he urged the 70,000-strong crowd to “push back against those trends that would violate human rights or suppress democracy or restrict individual freedoms” and to “fight against those who divide us”.




https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/25/barack-obama-draws-crowd-of-tens-of-thousands-in-berlin

sheshe2

(83,804 posts)
514. Is this what they call moving the goal posts!
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 06:31 PM
Jun 2018

You asked someone to name "another" I gave you one and now your request more.

Sophia4 (2,641 posts)
430. Yes. Bernie often draws such large crowds that he has to speak to many people

outside the official venue.

Can you name another Democrat that draws crowds as large as that


I could name another off the top of my head who had a massive crowd. Yet that would be refighting the primaries now wouldn't it. Am I to go back and check the size of the crowds of those no longer with us as well...to start, Martin, Bobby and John.


PS. Talking about it and actually doing something about our current situation makes the difference size does not matter, actions do. Hint, Russian sanctions and the vote.
 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
51. Nothing wrong with it
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 09:53 PM
Jun 2018

But if people are going to rave on and on about how he used his privilege to lead sit-ins in the early 60s, it also bears mentioning that he then used his white privilege to, instead of staying in Chicago or returning to New York or going down South to fight for the cause, he made the choice that his privilege provided him to walk away and move to one of the whitest states in the country where he was unlikely to live near or regularly encounter people of color or encounter or engage in the civil rights struggle in any meaningful way for the next 50 years or so.

So, not mad at him, but a little tired of his fans holding him up as some kind of a civil rights icon. It's not only inaccurate, it's insulting to the people who really DID use/give up their privilege and those who didn't have any privilege to give up but sacrificed and fought in the trenches while Bernie was up in Vermont.

George II

(67,782 posts)
120. Not only one of the whitest states, but a STATE with about one-quarter of the population of....
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 11:02 PM
Jun 2018

...his hometown of Brooklyn, NY.

lapucelle

(18,282 posts)
239. Actually 5.1 times "the horror".
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 09:42 AM
Jun 2018
Vermont has one of the worst track records when it comes to the criminal justice system. According to Vermonters for Criminal Justice Reform (VCJR) white people are equally as likely to be involved with drugs as black people are, yet, “on average, black and brown people are incarcerated in Vermont state prisons at a rate 5.1 times higher the imprisonment of whites. Vermont has a higher rate of incarceration of black and brown men than any other state. 1 in 14 black and brown men in the state of Vermont are incarcerated.”

https://middleburycampus.com/37955/local/vermonts-criminal-justice-system-a-series-unveiling-challenges-practices/

BlueWI

(1,736 posts)
246. Sure - pile on, why not.
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 09:58 AM
Jun 2018

I live in Wisconsin, which competes with Wisconsin for implicit bias and unequal justice in incarceration.

So what's my option here? Do I join you in your concern trolling with a focus on Tammy Baldwin, who's been in office for 6 years and is up for reelection this year in a predominantly white (86%) state, about why her presence hasn't moved the needle on equal treatment for people of color in Wisconsin?

Do I look up where other Wisconsin Democrats lived, just in case they moved here from a state with more POC, and speculate on whether they meet my self-imposed and unmeasurable standard of using your privilege properly to empower others?

Do I respond to the complicated and vexing problem of inequality with broad brush dismissals of entire political careers?

Or would these actions be a complete waste of time, solving nothing, contributing nothing except to pump up my own self-righteous attitudes toward other Democratic voters?

Here's my choice: I appreciate all sincere and consistent efforts by Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton, et al., to connect with core Democratic constituencies that have been underserved by many, many elected Democrats.

You get to choose your own option. I hope that whatever it is, it helps Democrats unify and win a CRITICAL midterm election in November.


BlueWI

(1,736 posts)
294. Sure she was
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 11:45 AM
Jun 2018

and now I know more about the moveable goal posts when it comes to being a pro-civil rights politician. It doesn't matter if the needle hasn't moved on equality in outcomes for POC, that doesn't affect your reputation as long as you were born in the state in question.

Or, do you also need satisfactory evidence that you've "used your privilege" to address inequality, or some equally fuzzy standard?

Bottom line: be a Sanders skeptic and enjoy it if you want. Just don't harbor the illusion that this obsession with a Vermont residence helps produce progressive legislation or defeat Trump.

George II

(67,782 posts)
452. Ah, the ol' "moveable goal post" claim. The sub-discussion is that Sanders left a diverse....
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 10:06 AM
Jun 2018

...city with minorities that were in dire need of advocacy to move to the sparsely (and mostly white) populated state of Vermont, where there are very few beleaguered minorities.

Seemingly by comparison you bring up Tammy Baldwin, who was born in Wisconsin, was raised and educated there, and remained there to help the people of her state. BIG difference, in this context there is absolutely no comparison between Sanders and Baldwin.

On the other hand, let's look a little closer at the facts - Sanders was a "civil rights advocate" in the 1960s. So what does he do to build on that? Shortly after he "marched on Washington" in his mid-20s he moved up to a state that is ~96% white and did virtually nothing to advance the cause of civil rights for decades.

Why did he do that?

Eliot Rosewater

(31,112 posts)
489. I just heard the open primary in CA might result in GOP winning, open primary
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 01:37 PM
Jun 2018

law was put in by GOP and progressives.

BlueWI

(1,736 posts)
289. I agree that I'm contributing to the pot-stirring that I didn't start,
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 11:32 AM
Jun 2018

not on this topic, and not on this thread. Usually I don't bother to repond, but the Sanders pile-on is so persistent that even when I stop by for news two years after the 2016 primary, the Sanders pile on is relentless.

As far as how I responded to you, concern trolling" isn't a name, it's a description of a behavior. I also used the phrase "self-righteous attitude toward other Democratic voters," which I think is fair given the way that the anti-Sanders crowd has piled on to even this news post about Sanders, but if you find the phrasing over the top, I can understand that and I apologize.

If you want to address my substantive points, feel free of course, otherwise, PEACE.

BlueWI

(1,736 posts)
281. I responded to the arguments in a post
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 11:15 AM
Jun 2018

which was a response to my post. I'm not as deeply steeped in the network of reputations on this site that you seem to inhabit.

sheshe2

(83,804 posts)
413. Wasn't there an OP here just the other day...
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 11:55 PM
Jun 2018

Hmmm, yeah I remember. It was about the word wypipo and how horrible and offensive and divisive to call other DUers names, when nobody called them such a thing. If you do not act that way you are not a wypipo. Then we have in this thread people calling DUers trolls. I have also read that we are accused of being Russian bots. None of that is offensive or divisive I guess. I have a thick skin and can take the attacks.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
419. Bernie's divisive
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 12:44 AM
Jun 2018

I mean, look at how much people disagree about him. Bernie threads are like “Wypipo” discussions on steroids.

No one should be allowed to talk about Bernie because, you know, divisive

sheshe2

(83,804 posts)
425. Yep.
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 01:36 AM
Jun 2018

He is divisive and his divisiveness divides. I am so tired of his attacks on Democrats. He is one man. One independent that time and again attacks our party. Yeah, I hear it said he caucuses with us and he does. Yet leaves us wanting on gun legislation and Russian sanctions, Yet here he is again running as a dem in VT and will refuse that honor and run once again as a indie. you are with us or you are not.

Eliot Rosewater

(31,112 posts)
476. How can someone who supports the D party be a russian bot?
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 12:35 PM
Jun 2018

From what I can tell myself and those who I identify with here have ONE main thing in common, we SUPPORT the party and it's leadership.

I can only dance around the nonsense so long and eventually someone is going to HAVE to come out and address the faction out to destroy our party who are not republicans.

R B Garr

(16,955 posts)
258. It's the hypocrisy. Tammy Baldwin doesn't put herself
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 10:41 AM
Jun 2018

out there as a national savior, which invites an examination of credibility. If you move out of an area where there is diversity into an area that is largely white, then that brings into question your credibility if you claim to be a civil rights leader. Like if your issue is child hunger, but you move to Beverly Hills, then you have inoculated yourself from actually doing anything about child hunger because that isn’t an issue in rich areas.

Seriously, this isn’t hard.

BlueWI

(1,736 posts)
292. I see your point
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 11:38 AM
Jun 2018

and my take is different. What else is new? How long has this argument continue over where Bernie Sanders lives and what it signifies?? You don't like Bernie Sanders or don't think he has civil rights bona fides, more power to you, be an honest skeptic and free yourself from the endless justifications.

As obvious as your opinion seems to you, it equally obvious to me that to focus obsessively on where Bernie Sanders lives does nothing to elect Democrats or to get progressive legislation, and supposedly, that's what we're all seeking on this site.

Otherwise, I guess we all need to move to Georgia, or we're all posers.

R B Garr

(16,955 posts)
305. Bernie lived in New York which is known for diversity.
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 12:14 PM
Jun 2018

Lots of inner city problems where he could roll up his sleeves and get truly involved. Instead, he chose to move to a small white state where he can critique others from afar while not actually doing anything himself.

That is hypocrisy, which brings credibility into question. You should think about that before accusing others of not being an honest skeptic. Moving away from problems you claim to care about is more the dishonest skeptic. That’s the point of bringing up the hypocrisy.





BlueWI

(1,736 posts)
307. So the answer is to litigate where Bernie lives and why he moved?
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 12:25 PM
Jun 2018

And you actually think this is productive?

It's ok to agree to disagree about whether it's valid to criticize where Bernie Sanders chose to live. I don't see it as productive, and most of the time, I don't even bother to post in opposition to this exceedingly absurd obsession.

Here's my bottom line: I understand the critique of living outside of where the problem of inequality appears to be most prevalent. What I object to is why this critique is only applied to Bernie Sanders. The Clintons live in New York - and their home neighborhood is as exclusive as any other. Where does Chuck Schumer live - is he subject to the same critique? What about Pat Leahy? Did he run away to live in Vermont, like Bernie Sanders, or does he get a pass if he's from Vermont?

Once the opposing interpretations are stated, there's nothing else to say. That's my point. Why beat a dead horse two years running?

R B Garr

(16,955 posts)
311. Because Bernie is still out there criticizing Democrats in
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 12:55 PM
Jun 2018

the name of helping when that is not what is happening. Talk about beating a dead horse. He puts himself out there as a savior of my party, so of course his consistency/credibility will be questioned.

Look around this front GD page and you’ll see the threats his wife just made yesterday about her/his visions for Democrats. She is saying they are going to dictate the changes or there will be a third party (I’m on my phone, can’t link, but look for the thread). No one else you mention denigrates Democrats, so there is no comparison. It’s the hypocrisy.

edit-She is at Left Forum, Google and listen to the undermining of Democrats and threat of a third party.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
318. The Clintons have a long record of fighting for civil rights and strong relationships with the black
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 01:19 PM
Jun 2018

community and didn't spend their entire adult lives living in an all-white enclave - and, of all the place Bill Clinton could have located his post-presidency office, he chose Harlem - so their choice of homes at this point is completely irrelevant. And neither Chuck Schumer nor Pat Leahy don't go around touting their civil rights props and their supporters don't consistently hold them up as civil rights heroes because of a protest they participated in 55 years ago, so their choices of domicile are also irrelevant.

BlueWI

(1,736 posts)
350. Here we go round the mulberry bush.
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 03:25 PM
Jun 2018

You and many others have firmly decided their opinions on "the first black president" and former senator Clinton. I am sure there's an archive of DU posts from 2002-2016 that cover all sides of this topic, so like many recent food fights like this, there's not much to add. I will beat this dead horse deader for a minute, why not!

You'd think that New York and Arkansas have no racial equity gaps, with as much praise as is heaped on the Clintons. What about the straight up white collar robbery of black home equity in the 2000s that happened right under the noses of Clinton and Schumer during their Senate terms? In the midst of the endless Bernie bashing, are you implying that the Democratic leader of the Senate has no responsibility for pursuing racial equity with conviction? With as much leverage as the Clintons and Schumer have pursued in the banking and finance industries, I would think that such vigilant champions for black causes might have found their voice during the Great Black Depression, with the Wells Fargo of the world settling out of court after padding their fat pockets with equity stolen from black communities. Did they stand up for black homeowners against big finance and I missed it???

So, out of 47 members of the Democratic/Independent causus, not to mention 51 Republicans, the only person I hear you holding accountable for his racial record is Sanders. Your single-mindedness on this point is remarkable.

Obviously there's nuance here, and I will be canvassing and voting for Democrats as I always do, although Senator Baldwin definitely heard from me about the Franken debacle. My proposal is that as a progressive community, we hold all Democrats accountable for defeating Republicans as quickly and effectively as we defeated a senator from our own party. Then maybe we wouldn't be facing a corrupt autocrat in the White House and a Republican congressional majority THAT WE STILL NEED TO BEAT after achieving a supermajority in 2008.

Of course, nothing I say will lead to any rethinking of the Bernie bashing, so charge on. I am out.

 

AtomicKitten

(46,585 posts)
523. Harlem was BC's second choice.
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 09:15 PM
Jun 2018
... of all the place[s] Bill Clinton could have located his post-presidency office, he chose Harlem


https://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/13/nyregion/criticized-on-office-rent-clinton-looks-to-harlem.html

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/4/10/1513624/-There-s-a-funny-story-about-Bill-Clinton-choosing-Harlem-for-his-office

Faced with a barrage of criticism for his decision to rent lavish office space in Manhattan, former President Bill Clinton yesterday abandoned his plans to move into the 56th floor of a Midtown skyscraper. He is now looking uptown, at more modest space on Harlem's main shopping boulevard, with equally panoramic views.

lapucelle

(18,282 posts)
266. As they say, actions speak louder than words.
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 10:50 AM
Jun 2018

Personally, I'm still making phone calls for Democratic candidates in my state primary, and I've already started canvassing at train stations in my purple district for Democratic candidates running unopposed in the GE .

Options for engagement include "posing" or "doing". I choose to do. When I vote, I find it more useful to focus broadly on what a candidate has actually done to advance Democratic party core values rather than on what he/she merely talks about potentially doing.

Those bewildered by vexing hypotheticals would better serve the clarity of their own thinking by avoiding the broad dismissals based on unwarranted assumptions that they themselves purport to bemoan.

BlueWI

(1,736 posts)
300. Congratulations on being a doer.
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 12:05 PM
Jun 2018

Your service is noted and appreciated. We all need to do more.

I am in a purple state, and we just had four big wins in April locally to flip a city council toward the more progressive side, and we have a ghost of a chance to beat Scott Walker and a likely opportunity to keep the U.S. Senate seat blue.

Given the state of things, no one is above criticism. It should be fair criticism, though, and that includes the whole Democratic party's record on civil rights and racial equality.

As far as "vexing hypotheticals" - I'm too simple to unpack that one, but I'm pretty confident in the clarity of my thinking, as you are.

Peace and all the best through the campaign season.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
372. Bashing Democratic leaders is "helping to unify."
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 07:29 PM
Jun 2018


Of course any criticism of Sanders is "bashing" and pointing out the actual achievements of Democrats is "divisive."

Well, as you say, "I'm out."

BlueWI

(1,736 posts)
387. I believe that all 100 senators are accountable
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 09:44 PM
Jun 2018

and deserve credit for their achievements and criticism for their failures. Nothing more, nothing less. If you represent the public and work in public institutions, accept accountability or find a different profession. I have met and am on a first name basis with the majority of state legislators in my area, Republican and Democrat. My partner holds public office and I know several of our county commissioners and judges. I greatly respect what public officials do. But I also respect the importance of the offices enough that I am believe that accountability is critical for every officeholder, regardless of party affiliation. Don't you?

I take issue with the groupthink on this thread that does exactly what you accuse - that holds Sanders accountable for his record and his choice of residence, but no one else. The sacred cows in the Senate can't be criticized, even when they fail to act in a way that reduced inequality, such as during the Great Recession's ripoff of black equity, their culpability in black mass incarceration, etc. This thread talks about racial issues and the need to walk the talk. So here we are.

Do you dispute the notion of accountability for all senators, not just Sanders? Beyond the racial issues, we're all frustrated with the huge loss of seats among Democrats nationwide in 2016. Plenty of accountability to go around. Bill Clinton plays golf on a course built by Trump and attended his wedding. Lots of New York and New Jersey politicians looked the other way or profited from Trump's shady business actions long before his presidency. Why is it ok to mention the Trump- Sanders Russian trolling, but not to mention the lax regulatory environment that enabled Trump's rise in a mostly blue city?

So it goes.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
397. Interesting that Bernie is so often held up as different and apart from other Senators because he's
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 11:04 PM
Jun 2018

supposedly so unique and special - but when it's pointed out that he's not all that special, the response is "Why are you treating him different? What about the OTHER senators?! He's not doing anything THEY'RE not doing, so why are you singling BERNIE out?!"

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
442. Who else is not being taken into account? When everyone but Sanders is accused of
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 06:42 AM
Jun 2018

being ineffectual at best, and corrupt at worst, then that's not holding everyone to account.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,175 posts)
123. So running in Vermont canceled all his work he did, and any cred he may have garnered before that?
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 11:08 PM
Jun 2018

For whatever reason he chose to settle there after University. He first ran in Vermont in '72. He served as the mayor of Burlingham as well 1981–1989. How long does a politician have to make excuses for where he lives and runs in? And every white politican is not required to prove their commitment to things like black injustice by making what could be seen as a symbolic act of living in and running for a State with a greater populace of African Americans. He wins in Vermont, I don't blame him for staying and winning there again and again. Winning is the only way he can make a difference in Washington. Have his voice heard, one that stands up for minorities and disadvantaged, and not afraid of Wall Street. I like how he relied on small donations in his last run for P.

I don't know why some on here are hell bent on making him an enemy. I think even if you, for whatever reason, don't like him, at least appreciate any extra votes he brings along with his popularity, even if you are baffled about it.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
146. Who said it cancelled anything out?
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 11:31 PM
Jun 2018

As I said, Not mad at him. I’m just tired of people who obviously don’t know jack squat about the civil rights movement and therefore think that Bernie Sanders’ participation was something unusual or special, trying to tell me that he deserves some kind of lifetime achievement award because he marched and sat in a few times 55 years ago.

Yes, Bernie did more 55 years ago than many white people did. But he did far less than many others. Compared to many white people who worked in the movement during that time, Bernie’s participation was very limited, minimal and temporary and came with very little risk. That’s not a criticism - it’s good that he participated - but that’s just a fact. And in my experience, most white liberals who participated during that time - including those who worked harder, longer and at considerably greater risk to their education, careers, status, relationships, safety and lives than Bernie did and stayed in the fight long after Bernie moved on to other things - would never even think of milking their efforts the way Bernie supporters milk his brief time in the movement.


NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
308. There's no denying that!
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 12:39 PM
Jun 2018
And in my experience, most white liberals who participated during that time - including those who worked harder, longer and at considerably greater risk to their education, careers, status, relationships, safety and lives than Bernie did and stayed in the fight long after Bernie moved on to other things - would never even think of milking their efforts the way Bernie supporters milk his brief time in the movement.
There's no denying that!

LiberalLovinLug

(14,175 posts)
330. I don't see how anyone is 'miliking' the time of his participation of his youth
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 01:47 PM
Jun 2018

The OP was not about that either. He certainly isn't bragging about it.

It is just one of the many things to admire about him. Of course there were others that did more, many more did less. But even in the small amount of protest and organization he did do in his youth, it was probably more than most any other white representative. Why should someone thumb their noses at that? Sure he could have done more. You can say that about anyone. But as he matured he chose to direct his energies to more good causes with politics. Expanding his world to all of the country and including other issues affecting Americans too. Its not like he abandoned 'the movement', he fought it in a different way, a different arena instead of the streets. Why single him out as somehow being less than perfect for the road he chose? When he did a lot more than most. Isn't that enough to show you that he is a good person?

Every time anyone posts anything positive about him there is a barrage of hate posts. I'm just so tired of it.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
333. What in my post evidenced "hate" toward Sanders?
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 01:58 PM
Jun 2018

Was it this? I think it's great that Bernie Sanders and tens of thousands of other young white college students participated in civil rights protests across the country during the 1960s. They truly made a difference, whatever their contribution.

Or this? Some, like Bernie, participated in protests at or near their schools ... But whatever the degree and depth of their participation, every one made a difference.

Or maybe this? Bernie Sanders' participation was admirable and laudable and appreciated.

How about this? For me, the bottom line is that Bernie Sanders did the right thing in 1963. I give him a lot of credit for that.

Or was it this coup de grace of Bernie hate? So, again, I say, Thank you, Senator Sanders for doing the right thing 55 years ago and joining with us to help bring America closer to the more perfect union that we ALL want it to be.

That's a whole lotta Bernielove in one post. If this post were any more laudatory toward him, I'd be nominated to be an honorary bruh...

So, please spare me the accusations about hating on Bernie.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,175 posts)
337. I don't think you are so hateful
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 02:11 PM
Jun 2018

When I said I was tired of it, I was talking more about some others that are much more transparent in their hate.

but you must admit you have been giving him backhanded compliments. As well as his supporters. Reducing us to "fans" and that we are holding him up as "a civil rights icon". As if we are dumb enough to use that as our only reason to support him. You are certainly more fair than others. Some here it seems their only job is to tear down Sanders. That is what I am tired of. and I'm sorry if I lump you in with the more extreme haters. Its always the same group. I think I need a nap now.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
338. If you don't think you are a "fan," then I probably wasn't talking about you.
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 02:14 PM
Jun 2018

And I don't give backhanded compliments. When I compliment people, including Bernie, I mean it as a compliment. When I want to criticize, I come out and criticize.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,175 posts)
341. Fair enough Effie
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 02:15 PM
Jun 2018

Lets all work together with all of our friends and allies to take back the House this year!

garybeck

(9,942 posts)
126. excuse me, Bernie did not "walk away" from all that.
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 11:11 PM
Jun 2018

" he made the choice that his privilege provided him to walk away and move to one of the whitest states in the country where he was unlikely to live near or regularly encounter people of color or encounter or engage in the civil rights struggle in any meaningful way for the next 50 years or so. "

excuse. me. his living in Vermont has not prevented him from doing anything and to say that he has not engage in civil rights struggle in the last 50 years is factually inaccurate. he has spent the last 50 years doing just that.

George II

(67,782 posts)
139. Really? How can has he "engage(d) in civil rights struggle" since the late 1960s? I've seen here..
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 11:22 PM
Jun 2018

...whenever it's pointed out that he couldn't even get his policies enacted in his own (current) state of Vermont it's said that "he isn't in state or local government".

So, please, WHAT specifically has he done in the "last 50 years"? Anything?

garybeck

(9,942 posts)
426. Check his voting record. I guess that doesn't count?
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 01:41 AM
Jun 2018

Or the many rallies here in Vermont that I here personally seen him speak at.

He speaks publicly at rallies and on weekly radio shows.

He writes books about all these things

And he proposes legislation and votes on legislation

What else do you want him to do, get arrested for civil disobedience?

garybeck

(9,942 posts)
473. He does a lot more than vote, as I said.
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 12:30 PM
Jun 2018

What else would you like him to do?

Again, he proposes legislation, he attends many many rallies and speaks publicly about civil rights and other important issues, he writes books about all of these things. What else would you like him to do?

garybeck

(9,942 posts)
515. you still haven't answered my question
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 07:28 PM
Jun 2018

first you said he has done nothing

then I listed several things that he does and you only acknowledged one of them and said that is the bare minimum that politicians are required to do.

then I pointed out that you neglected to acknowledge the other things he does.

now you say his books are just about his speeches, which is not correct.

in all this you have refused to answer my question.

what would you like him to do that he is not doing?

what are other politicians doing that he is not doing that make you feel so strongly motivated to criticize him and say he is doing nothing?

Is he doing less than Patrick Leahy, the other Senator from my state?

Is he doing less than your senators?

what exactly would you like him to do?

the fact is he does more for the common people than most politicians. he speaks the truth. I have learned a lot by just listening to his radio interviews and public speeches. and everything he says turns out to be true.

so if you are going to be so publicly critical of him and say that he does nothing I think you owe it to him and anyone reading this what you think he should be doing, and what every one else is doing besides him, that he is not.

because I think you will find that your claim is no substance and he is in fact doing as much or more than most other politicians.

have a nice day.

lapucelle

(18,282 posts)
231. Moving to Vermont may not have prevented BS from doing anything, but
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 09:06 AM
Jun 2018
what has he actually done to help Black Vermonters who make up just 1.2% of its population, but 10.7% of its incarcerated?

There seem to be pronounced racial disparities in the criminal justice system in VT.

"Vermont has one of the worst track records when it comes to the criminal justice system. According to Vermonters for Criminal Justice Reform (VCJR) white people are equally as likely to be involved with drugs as black people are, yet, 'on average, black and brown people are incarcerated in Vermont state prisons at a rate 5.1 times higher the imprisonment of whites. Vermont has a higher rate of incarceration of black and b
rown men than any other state. 1 in 14 black and brown men in the state of Vermont are incarcerated.'”

https://middleburycampus.com/37955/local/vermonts-criminal-justice-system-a-series-unveiling-challenges-practices/

"Almost nowhere in the United States is the racial disparity in incarceration rates more pronounced than in Vermont, where a study by the Sentencing Project found that black people are jailed at a rate more than 10 times greater than those of whites."

http://digital.vpr.net/post/lawmakers-hope-sharpen-focus-racial-justice-vermont#stream/0

BlueWI

(1,736 posts)
240. Have I heard this take before?
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 09:45 AM
Jun 2018

Sure!! Who hasn't??

Is Bernie Sanders a civil rights icon like John Lewis? No, obviously. Does it make a difference that Sanders is a consistent voice for justice issues in the US Senate and in his appearances around the country? IMO, yes, but opinions vary. So be it.

Is that a reason pop in on Bernie threads religiously just in case some of his "fans" confuse Bernie Sanders for John Lewis? I guess for you and some others, it is. I would rather respect the differences in what people value in public servants by opting out of concern trolling of politicians that are part of the Democratic caucus, even though I'm not a particular "fan."

I do admire any citizen, elected official or not, who is as dedicated as Bernie is to speaking out on justice-related issues nationally to constituencies that, if their energy were tapped, would help Democrats win elections, including the couldn't be more critical 2018 midterms. As November gets closer, credit should be given where credit is due to anyone for reaching out to expand the base of the party and to help more voters connect justice issues with economic populism.

But, the default choice seems to be to nitpick about where Bernie Sanders resides and play this shell game with other Democratic voters while the current chief executive wrecks havoc in DC and beyond. It is what it is.

Ninsianna

(1,349 posts)
265. But that's where his inheritance bought him land. He would have
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 10:49 AM
Jun 2018

had to have become part of the WWC class anywhere else.
Trump and Bernie have a whole lot in common.

George II

(67,782 posts)
63. Not going to do much to help the poor oppressed masses and the plight of minorities...
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 10:14 PM
Jun 2018

....in Vermont.

Demographics (https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/VT ) :

Population: 623,000
White: 589,000 (96.6%)
Black: 8,100 (1.3%)
Hispanic: 11,800 (1.9%)

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
183. Jon Stewart's dig at Howard Dean works with Bernie, too
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 12:34 AM
Jun 2018

“Bernie Sanders today touted his near-unanimous support in the Vermont African-American community.

Or, as they’re known in Vermont: Neil.” (Flashing a picture of the black guy named Neil)

 

JCanete

(5,272 posts)
201. from a congressional seat? Really? From a senatorial seat? Those don't have reach
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 02:01 AM
Jun 2018

beyond the borders of his state? How long has he been in politics?


But sure, I think Sanders should get credit for what he did do, but that it doesn't have to get blown out of proportion. His sentiments were apparently on the right side of history, but he absolutely had the luxury/privilege to allow other considerations to take him away from the epicenters of the civil rights movement.


Truly no reason to make it more than, nor less than, it was.

sheshe2

(83,804 posts)
47. And
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 09:48 PM
Jun 2018

Vermont Population by Race
Population information, segmented by race, is displayed in the following table. The highest percentage of the population is White at 95.3%. 1.7% of the population is Two or more races, making that the second largest group.

See the chart http://www.usacityfacts.com/vt/population/

Hmmm.

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
64. Might want to read up on the back-to-the-land movement of the '60s and '70s.
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 10:15 PM
Jun 2018

It's a thing.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/how-the-back-to-the-land-movement-paved-the-way-for-bernie-sanders-20160419

In your zeal to trash Sanders you're missing the reasons why so many across the country took part: Vietnam, pollution, transforming politics, "simple living" in homes in the woods rather than cramped apartments in noisy cities, etc.

'Hmmm,' nothing, but at least you gave it the ol' college try.

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
157. What does that even mean?
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 11:57 PM
Jun 2018

And in case you missed my other post, in 1970 New York state was almost 87% white. Be sure to let us know what ratio of white to non-white is acceptable before a person is allowed to move without thinly veiled charges of racism.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
159. No one said anyone's not "allowed" to do anything and no one accused anyone of racism
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 11:59 PM
Jun 2018

veiled or not.

Strawmen don’t work with me, so don’t throw them over here.

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
164. Horseshit. Vermont and its 95% (or is it 99%?) is nothing but...
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 12:09 AM
Jun 2018

thinly veiled charges of racism.

And again, New York state was almost 87% white at the time, so do tell what the acceptable percentage is. What's the cutoff?

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
166. Trust me. When I accuse people of racism, I come out and say it.
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 12:12 AM
Jun 2018

What you choose to infer from my comments is on you. And that you chose to infer - even after I told you otherwise - that I’m accusing Bernie of being a racist speaks volumes about YOUR mindset.

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
173. Yes, my mindset is that "Vermont is X% white"...
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 12:19 AM
Jun 2018

is a thinly veiled charge of racism. Whether you -- one person -- says it or not is immaterial. But it's tossed around with abandon -- do tell what it's supposed to mean.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
178. It's simple
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 12:26 AM
Jun 2018

It means that “Mr. Civil Rights” moved to a part of the country where there were hardly any people of color and virtually no opportunity to be involved in the civil rights movement he was supppsedly so committed to.

That doesn’t make him a racist. It just makes him not all that committed to the cause and certainly not committed enough for anyone to hold him up as some great civil rights champion. True civil rights champions stayed in the movement among the people in the movement. That’s not Vermont.

Eliot Rosewater

(31,112 posts)
554. Along with tax returns or the lack thereof and voting AGAINST russian sanctions I want to
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 12:05 PM
Jun 2018

know when will folks take off the blinders?

George II

(67,782 posts)
186. In 1970 (two years after he fled to Vermont) NYS was...
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 12:42 AM
Jun 2018

...76% White, 21% Black (1.7M, about 3X the TOTAL population of Vermont, white/black/hispanic/asian!) and 16% Hispanic. I'm sure the numbers in Brooklyn would be more extreme.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_New_York_City

As they say, "nice try".

George II

(67,782 posts)
260. No, he was a resident of NYC before he moved to Vermont. Anyone with an understanding....
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 10:43 AM
Jun 2018

....of the State of New York knows that there are essentially "two" states - the NYC Metropolitan Area and most of the rest of the state.

Not sloppy, realistic.

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
275. Doesn't matter. He moved from a state that was nearly 87% white...
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 11:04 AM
Jun 2018

to one that was only 8% more white (since everyone is so fond of throwing around percentages). He was born and raised in the city and went to college in the city... it's unbelievably petty to begrudge a person's decision to get out of a cramped, noisy city to live in a more peaceful environment. You're also conveniently discounting Vietnam, the environmental movement (rivers on fire, anyone?), etc. It was a tumultuous time.

Activist Pete Seeger lived in a cabin in the woods. You trash him, too?

George II

(67,782 posts)
548. In 1970 there were 22,000 minority residents in Vermont, in NYC* there were 1,850,000.
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 10:44 AM
Jun 2018

Last edited Tue Jun 5, 2018, 12:04 PM - Edit history (1)

If one were truly a civil rights advocate working for the poor and disadvantaged, which would be the best place to do so?

*Again, he's a native of Brooklyn, NYC.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
316. LOL, you have no idea what Brooklyn was like back in the day, do you?
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 01:11 PM
Jun 2018

NY the state is a very different place.

Hekate

(90,727 posts)
344. In all fairness, sheshe, the urge to find a simpler purer life was fairly widespread...
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 02:35 PM
Jun 2018

...among my generation. For instance, it engendered a lot of communes, with or without tie-dye, and though most probably didn't know it, utopian communal living has a long long history in the US. Back to the land.

Going to live in a small town or rural state after the pressures of the Big City -- I do not fault anyone for that. Many of us made those choices, if we were able to.

I focus on Bernie's other choices -- like allowing his newfound followers to give him credit for the achievements of others from before they were born.
I fault him for being a lifelong scold to the Democratic Party without giving at least equal time to the GOP.
I fault him for his one-size-fits-all solution to all our problems -- classic Marxist economic theory -- that will magically make all our other problems (racism, misogyny, social inequality) go away.
I fault him for allowing his newfound followers to disrespect women like Dolores Huerta and Barbara Boxer and Nancy Pelosi, whose lifetime of grinding work should be recognized and who should not be shouted down and physically shoved aside by men young enough to be their grandsons, who don't know and don't care what was done before they were born.

I'm not blaming you or arguing with you, dear she; this was the only place I could think of to insert my comment in a subthread that seems to be going down a rabbit hole. Moving to a very small state like Vermont allowed him to be elected to the US Senate, and be re-elected year after year. I get that part, and it's fine. What he's accomplished is another topic; and his rise to national prominence at an advanced age opens him to critiques he never had to endure before.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
346. I don't fault him for moving to Vermont
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 02:46 PM
Jun 2018

But it's hard to claim credit for extraordinary commitment to the civil rights struggle when you move that far away from where it's happening and who is engaging in it.

It doesn't discount what he actually did do - but it does make people roll their eyes whenever he or his supporters try to lecture people who actually stayed in the struggle about civil rights.

Hekate

(90,727 posts)
361. Yes indeed it does make us roll our eyes
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 05:09 PM
Jun 2018

Especially the bit about the ignorance of his young acolytes

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
161. Read the Rolling Stone link I posted, it's quite interesting.
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 12:03 AM
Jun 2018

I wasn't aware of this, but the movement changed Vermont from a red state that for over a century had voted for Republican presidents (and almost always Republican governors) to a reliably blue state. A wonderful progressive state was formed. Go ahead, pooh-pooh. Optics! LOL

George II

(67,782 posts)
181. I did read it, unless I missed it there's nothing noted since the 1970s. BTW...
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 12:31 AM
Jun 2018

...that "progressive" state has a republican governor.

karynnj

(59,504 posts)
221. Yes, because his Democratic predecessor was a terrible person, even if his policies were better
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 07:03 AM
Jun 2018

The current governor was the or Governor and was on local public radio frequently giving him far greater name recognition than the excellent Democrat who ran in 2016.

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
238. Transforming the political landscape is significant...
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 09:31 AM
Jun 2018

in spite of you working overtime to attempt to diminish it.

Tossing out "Republican governor" is like Sean Hannity frothing about record snowfall in an attempt to deny climate change.

karynnj

(59,504 posts)
220. No it didn't
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 06:59 AM
Jun 2018

Look up the bio of our It Governor, who still is an organic farmer. Alternatively, note that Burlington generates all its electricity from sustainable, green sources.

Some of good values of the 60s and 70s thrive in Vermont today - though they gained from taking on many old time Vermont values.

Response to SMC22307 (Reply #64)

George II

(67,782 posts)
112. Yes, and Vermont has about one-quarter of the population of his hometown (and mine) of...
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 10:51 PM
Jun 2018

...Brooklyn, NY.

Appears to be the inverse of Frank Sinatra's signature song!

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
48. So?
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 09:49 PM
Jun 2018

I've only been there for skiing and leaf-peeping, but it seems like a great place to live. Especially for someone born and raised in the city looking to "get back to the land" as many did in the '60s and '70s. Some people like quiet. Woods. Rural. Henry David Thoreau.

It's curious why a certain segment of DUers can't seem to grasp that. And that a person can speak out from anywhere.

Or you just mad that Bernie and racist-outer Shaun King have paired up to fight the good fight?

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
52. Not mad at Bernie at all
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 09:54 PM
Jun 2018

Just tired of his acolytes holding him up as a civil rights icon because he protested during college.

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
111. Macedonian trolls, perhaps. You getting duped by them?
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 10:50 PM
Jun 2018

Most of us just view Sanders as someone on the right side of history by participating in the civil rights movement, not that he's some sort of MLK. But you know that...

KPN

(15,646 posts)
288. Does he really get held up as a civil rights
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 11:31 AM
Jun 2018

icon? Seems like an exaggeration. His record on civil rights gets defended by people from time to time when he is attacked on civil rights. His early civil rights record was part of the biographical pieces that were written and produced about him in 2015/16 when he ran in the primary. But "icon"? Seems a bit of a reach.

sheshe2

(83,804 posts)
59. It's curious
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 10:08 PM
Jun 2018
It's curious why a certain segment of DUers can't seem to grasp that. And that a person can speak out from anywhere.

Or you just mad that Bernie and racist-outer Shaun King have paired up to fight the good fight?

Shaun King

@ShaunKing


Even as a teenager, Bernie Sanders understood that he had to use his white privilege to fight against bigotry. That's why Bernie helped lead the first known sit-in in the University of Chicago.

Bernie hates to tell these stories. So I'm going to tell them for him. #RealJusticeLA
https://
twitter.com/BernieSanders/
status/1003070623059304448

8:43 PM - Jun 2, 2018

1,165

323 people are talking about this

.............................

So after the 60's and had moved to a state that is 95% white. What exactly
has he done for black lives? Actions and laws that he initiated and passsed, , not just forceful speeches. This said actions speak louder than words.



George II

(67,782 posts)
118. He's had his share of votes AGAINST gun control legislation that might have stemmed the slaughter...
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 10:58 PM
Jun 2018

...of Blacks in our cities.

OH, but he voted against the war in Iraq yet voted for every single bill that funded that war.

sheshe2

(83,804 posts)
137. Yes. He had a chance on gun control.
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 11:19 PM
Jun 2018

He left it behind.

Damn awesome gif, George. Thank you for that and your comment.

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
153. LOL, and in 1970, New York state was almost 87% white.
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 11:47 PM
Jun 2018

Tell us, what ratio of white to non-white is acceptable to you? It's kinda cute that you think you're proving something nefarious by tossing out "95% white," but you're really not. Trust me.

Hmm, just stumbled upon this:

List of landmark African-American legislation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_landmark_African-American_legislation

That's a fascinating list. No legislation since the Civil Rights Act of 1991. Forget Sanders who is just one man -- where are all the other members of our party, "initiating" and "passing" laws? Bernie just introduced The Workplace Democracy Act to fight poverty wages and income inequality and boost unions -- is the Democratic Party on board?

I know it really sticks in your craw that Shaun King and a BLM co-founder have embraced Sanders and his ideas, but seriously, let it go. Kamala Harris has embraced Sanders' Medicare for All and since you have shared personal information on this site, I KNOW you're not going to pooh-pooh that, right She?

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
175. "We see you"? LOLOLOL! Didn't Glenn Beck use that line...
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 12:22 AM
Jun 2018

back in the early Teabagger days?

Who is "we"? Do tell.

It was hardly a dig -- get out of micro-aggression mode.

sheshe2

(83,804 posts)
179. You swung at George and missed.
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 12:27 AM
Jun 2018

Now you are having a sad.



Glenn Beck? You bring up Glen Beck

"We see you"? LOLOLOL! Didn't Glenn Beck use that line...

back in the early Teabagger days?


I would have no clue, never watched the ass. Did you?

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
235. Discussions of Beck were all over DU.
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 09:16 AM
Jun 2018

Surely you remember. I imagine you even participated in such threads but don't care enough to dig up any. "We see you." OK, now what?

It's adorable that you're defending your lil' buddy George, but he was wrong and I corrected him. Tis George who missed. And you, for that matter.

Eliot Rosewater

(31,112 posts)
557. ZZZZZZZing
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 12:11 PM
Jun 2018

If what happened recently happens again in November I am going to get real angry and loud, REAL angry and REAL loud.

 

disillusioned73

(2,872 posts)
457. It's desperation..
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 11:14 AM
Jun 2018

pay it no mind.. very small segment of smear merchants here and elsewhere.. people are catching onto it.. I got the old "implied" treatment myself recently...

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
285. If a 55-year-old protest is relevant, his other choices during that time and since are also relevant
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 11:21 AM
Jun 2018

Qutzupalotl

(14,319 posts)
6. Candidate Obama did this when he came to my town.
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 08:54 PM
Jun 2018

It is a classy move, only costs a little time, and means a whole lot to people who waited in line. Keeps them as motivated voters, and now they like you a little more.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
45. I find absolutely nothing appealing or classy about calling Democrats "ideologically bankrupt"...
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 09:46 PM
Jun 2018
Bernie has always been about classy... it's what makes him so damn appealing.
I find absolutely nothing appealing or classy about calling Democrats "ideologically bankrupt" or "corrupt" or "feeble".

All I'm trying to say is that it seems that you and I have very different ideas about what qualifies as being "classy" and "appealing".

 

JCanete

(5,272 posts)
205. Being consistent matters to me. You can't pretend one side is taking money and the other isn't, or
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 02:10 AM
Jun 2018

that when one side takes money its clearly evil and that they are doing the Koch brothers bidding, but that we are just immune to its influence when we put a D on our jersey.

That is not classy, nor trustworthy.

And, if his voters are any indication, being that they are the ones who I'd bet most cared about what he was saying, nothing he said about the Democratic part's direction appears to have taken away any votes from Clinton, given that they, we, came out for her in the GE by and large.

Sanders has not been among the voices saying that there's no difference between dems and Republicans, and infact, he has said quite clearly that Republicans(the leadership and the party) are beyond saving.

Eliot Rosewater

(31,112 posts)
558. Thanks, and arent there a dozen or more similar attacks of the D party?
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 12:13 PM
Jun 2018

WHEN

ARE

PEOPLE

GONNA

TAKE

OFF

THE

BLINDERS

 

DRoseDARs

(6,810 posts)
72. Your comment, in light of posts #3, 7, 9, 12, 13, 23, 27...
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 10:20 PM
Jun 2018

I wonder if they'd've'd the gall back then to shit on Obama having done it. Or if Hillary did it during her campaigns (I know at least once she was out in the rain and shaking hands.).

 

DRoseDARs

(6,810 posts)
83. Every 1 in a while I have to take a break from seeing certain posters, but always eventually unblock
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 10:28 PM
Jun 2018

Unlike some posters who delight in chasing off others who are not bots or spammers or trolls, I prefer to look at everyone here as part of my chosen family. I can ignore for a time, but we'll speak again.

 

DRoseDARs

(6,810 posts)
90. Oh I certainly understand. Sometimes individuals can be infuriating and it's best to block.
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 10:35 PM
Jun 2018

But like I said, I choose to see them again.

George II

(67,782 posts)
99. Neither Obama nor Clinton (are you refighting the primary perhaps?) would be "campaigning"....
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 10:43 PM
Jun 2018

....in California in the midst of either their Illinois Senate Re-election (Obama) or New York Re-election (Clinton) campaigns.

 

DRoseDARs

(6,810 posts)
109. Refighting the primary? That's pure projection and you are naked.
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 10:49 PM
Jun 2018

Nice try, though. Wasn't clever, but... nice try.

George II

(67,782 posts)
148. In a discussion about Sanders in 2018 you bring up Hillary Clinton. Me, projection? So....
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 11:34 PM
Jun 2018

....how does she fit into the picture here?

BTW, I'm fully clothed.

karynnj

(59,504 posts)
223. Obama campaigned for others in 2004 because he faced an easy general election
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 07:10 AM
Jun 2018

Clinton similarly did not stay in NY during her 2006 election. She campaigned for others as well as did fund raisers.

sheshe2

(83,804 posts)
168. Seriously?
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 12:16 AM
Jun 2018

He had a stage built with a sound system and podium with this plaque on the front, barricade's assembled in less than an hour after his theater was to full to handle the crowd. Wow. I knew he was good, yet that was awesome!!! Then Obama walked on water to the stage.

LOL...I love my President...to be clear I mean Obama...Love him. Best President ever, yet that never happened.


Qutzupalotl

(14,319 posts)
369. Of course you want to make this about barricades
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 05:57 PM
Jun 2018

Last edited Sun Jun 3, 2018, 07:06 PM - Edit history (1)

but I’m talking about the OP.

I made it inside the arena (barely), so I didn’t witness it directly. There was a story about it in the local paper, though. Given your strange responses (“yet that never happened”?), I don’t feel inclined to look it up for you. The article included a photo of Obama shaking hands outside before going in. I do not recall the configuration of barricades, and don’t see how it is relevant to the discussion. They are not hard to set up, and if they anticipate large crowds they would have ample time to do so.

You seem more intent on tearing down Sanders at all costs, even if it means denying good behavior on Obama’s part.

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
11. Bernie tellin' it like it is... another brillant appearance, showing why he is the most popular
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 09:06 PM
Jun 2018

active politician today.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
468. I didn't know that. Thanks, Bernie!
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 11:45 AM
Jun 2018

Now if only someone in a position of power, like, say, a U.S. senator, would come up with a plan to do something about it, that would be awesome!


Response to Donkees (Original post)

BannonsLiver

(16,403 posts)
30. The promotion of OR candidates
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 09:29 PM
Jun 2018

That say a lot of neat things like this but are strangely unable to win elections. So not much, really.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
44. Meh
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 09:45 PM
Jun 2018

He always talks like he's an outside advocate yelling for someone to do something, not a U.S. Senator who is actually on the inside with some power to get something done.

George II

(67,782 posts)
128. That looks like it's indoors, what about your OP? Why don't you respond to questions....
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 11:13 PM
Jun 2018

...addressed to you about your OPs or other posts?

Do you have anything other than tweets to document any of this?

Thanks in advance!

 

Tavarious Jackson

(1,595 posts)
25. George Soros has been donating money to DA's focused on these issues
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 09:24 PM
Jun 2018

that Bernie is talking about. Recently 12 District Attorney races Soros funded won. Seems to me Bernie is after Soros money. It's a good cause and I believe in what Soros is doing.. It's probably just a coincidence that Bernie is now speaking of justice reform..

rurallib

(62,431 posts)
32. I am sorry, but that seems like a very cynical remark
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 09:31 PM
Jun 2018

I've been listening to Sanders on the Thom Hartmann show for a long time.
Equal justice has been one of his central themes forever.

IIRC there were many stories of Sanders deeply involved in civil rights in the 60s.

That is quite a jump in logic you have made there.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
55. This OP bears repeating
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 10:00 PM
Jun 2018
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210468176

Why "Bernie was arrested in '63" is an inappropriate answer to criticism of his civil rights record

Let me preface this by saying this is in no way an attack on - or even a criticism of - Bernie Sanders or a diminishment of his civil rights activism in the 1960s or an effort to "refight the primaries."

But all too frequently, any attempt to question or, God forbid, criticize, Sanders' record, attitudes or comments on civil rights today is met with a reminder that he was arrested while protesting for civil rights in 1963, often with an accompanying photograph and sarcastic comments such as "Here's a picture of Bernie hating black people," or similarly snide remarks.

So, let me explain why such responses to questions about Sanders' current record are not only completely beside the point, but show an ignorance about the civil rights movement, not to mention an arrogance and paternalism that is very galling to me and many other African Americans. Maybe, once folks understand this in a little more depth, they will be less likely to dismiss us in such a way.

First, I think it's great that Bernie Sanders and tens of thousands of other young white college students participated in civil rights protests across the country during the 1960s. They truly made a difference, whatever their contribution.

Some, like Bernie, participated in protests at or near their schools. Some traveled to other parts of the country to protest. Some went into the deep South to help organize and work on an ongoing basis. Some joined protests that put them in serious danger - such as the Freedom Riders who had no idea whether they would come back alive and, sadly, some did not. But whatever the degree and depth of their participation, every one made a difference.

Bernie Sanders' participation was admirable and laudable and appreciated. But he did not get involved or make the kinds of sacrifices that many other students made. Again - that's not a knock on him, just the reality. He participated in protests in which he knew that he would not face great harm or risk to his body, life or future. He joined a protest in which the students planned to be arrested, practiced for it (the movement trained protesters in non-violence and how to be arrested so as not to be injured or accused of resisting arrest). He also likely knew, going in, that, like most white students in these protests, he would not be physically abused, his rights would be protected, he would be released shortly thereafter and his penalty would be a small fine - in this case $25 - and the arrest would not have any negative impact on his education or future career.

The benefit of this type of protest did not come in the suffering or brutality that many black and white protesters endured elsewhere, but in showing the country the power and numbers behind the movement. And they were very important and very effective.

So, I have nothing but praise for what Bernie did in 1963. He was a small part of something very important. He did the right thing. He could have stayed in his comfy dorm room, but he went out, inconvenienced himself, and lent himself to the fight. He was on the right side of history.

But people should recognize that participating in a righteous fight in the past does not, in and of itself, completely define a person for all time. Charlton Heston marched with Dr. King. As a college student, Mitch McConnell participated in the March on Washington and worked for a senator who helped to break the filibuster of the 1964 Civil Rights Act. I'm certainly not comparing Bernie to these two men, but just noting that support for civil rights in 1964 does not, by itself, mean that someone's positions can't be and shouldn't be questioned. And it surely doesn't make those who participated in it civil rights experts or icons who must be revered by virtue of what they did 55 years ago.

But more important is this simple fact: The civil rights movement was not a gift to black people. It wasn't a movement in which white people GAVE something to or did something for us. It was a movement, led by black people, in which Americans of all races joined together, prayed together, fought together and died together not to save us but to save AMERICA.

So, in my view, the notion that participation in the movement confers on a white person some special grace because they did something for black people and, as a result, black people must be forever grateful and cannot ever raise any question about their positions is not just insulting, it shows an incredible lack of understanding of what the civil rights movement really was. And it reveals a shallow and paternalistic view of civil rights and social justice as a movement based on an erroneous assumption that YOU did something for US and we should be forever grateful - and if we aren't, we are somehow betraying YOU.

For me, the bottom line is that Bernie Sanders did the right thing in 1963. I give him a lot of credit for that. But that credit is not unlimited and it definitely isn't a bottomless store of goodwill that shields him from any responsibility for or scrutiny of his subsequent actions, positions, views, or comments today. I appreciate what he did, but I don't OWE him anything, including reverent acceptance of whatever he says or does, for it.

So, again, I say, Thank you, Senator Sanders for doing the right thing 55 years ago and joining with us to help bring America closer to the more perfect union that we ALL want it to be. Now, let's talk about how you can continue to walk on that path with us now.


There's another point I want to make today. Just as Dr. King predicted, the rise of black southerners to full citizenship also lifted their white neighbors. "It is history's wry paradox," he said, "that when Negroes win their struggle to be free, those who have held them down will themselves be free for the first time."

After Selma, free white and black southerners crossed the bridge to the new South, leaving hatred and isolation on the far side—building vibrant cities, thriving economies, and great universities, a new South still enriched by the oldtime religion and rhythms and rituals we all love, now open to all things modern and people of all races and faiths from all over the world, a new South in which whites have gained at least as much as blacks from the march to freedom. Without Selma, Atlanta would never have had the Super Bowl or the Olympics. And without Selma, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton would never have been elected President of the United States.
...
My fellow Americans, this day has a special meaning for me, for I, too, am a son of the South, the old, segregated South. And those of you who marched 35 years ago set me free, too, on Bloody Sunday, free to know you, to work with you, to love you, to raise my child to celebrate our differences and hallow our common humanity.

I thank you all for what you did here. Thank you, Andy and Jesse and Joe, for the lives you have lived since. Thank you, Coretta, for giving up your beloved husband and the blessings of a normal life. Thank you, Ethel Kennedy, for giving up your beloved husband and the blessings of a normal life.

And thank you, John Lewis, for the beatings you took and the heart you kept wide open. Thank you for walking with the wind, hand in hand with your brothers and sisters, to hold America's trembling house down. Thank you for your vision of the beloved community, an America at peace with itself.

I tell you all, as long as Americans are willing to hold hands, we can walk with any wind; we can cross any bridge. Deep in my heart, I do believe, we shall overcome."

President Bill Clinton, Remarks on the 35th Anniversary of the 1965 Voting Rights March in Selma, Alabama
March 5, 2000

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=58210
 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
73. I know exactly how this works. You kick the thread, you kick my post and more people read it
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 10:21 PM
Jun 2018

That’s how it works, my dear.

sheshe2

(83,804 posts)
125. Yes it really does.
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 11:10 PM
Jun 2018
But more important is this simple fact: The civil rights movement was not a gift to black people. It wasn't a movement in which white people GAVE something to or did something for us. It was a movement, led by black people, in which Americans of all races joined together, prayed together, fought together and died together not to save us but to save AMERICA.


So, in my view, the notion that participation in the movement confers on a white person some special grace because they did something for black people and, as a result, black people must be forever grateful and cannot ever raise any question about their positions is not just insulting, it shows an incredible lack of understanding of what the civil rights movement really was. And it reveals a shallow and paternalistic view of civil rights and social justice as a movement based on an erroneous assumption that YOU did something for US and we should be forever grateful - and if we aren't, we are somehow betraying YOU.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210687499#post20



"So, in my view, the notion that participation in the movement confers on a white person some special grace because they did something for black people and, as a result, black people must be forever grateful and cannot ever raise any question about their positions is not just insulting, it shows an incredible lack of understanding of what the civil rights movement really was."


Thank you Effie.

Sorry, Hassin. You are wrong.





George II

(67,782 posts)
130. Why not? Maybe in your opinion it doesn't, but certainly in the opinion of many here...
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 11:15 PM
Jun 2018

...it DOES bear repeating.

Tom Rinaldo

(22,913 posts)
227. I agree with you, it does
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 08:05 AM
Jun 2018

The points you make are important ones, and you did so in a fair and gracious manner.

You closed your OP with some wonderful words from a man who for a long time was often jokingly referred to as America's "first Black President" by commentators across the racial spectrum. Words are important, all of us here repeatedly engage in their use towards ends that we believe in. When good words are spoken, ones that vividly frame the important choices before us, by people with high national visibility, than their positive effects are multiplied. Words matter, though I agree that actions matter most. It matters that a white man who was elected to the highest office in the nation paid sincere homage to the courage and moral leadership of the African Americans who risked their lives to move America closer to the noble vision of itself that it likes to proclaim. Bil Clinton made those remarks 18 years ago and rereading them now they still have the power to move me.

Above in this thread you note that those with positions of power, such as U.S. Senators, must do more than simply speak out for positive values, while noting that Bernie Sanders was a sitting member of the House of Representatives who voted FOR the crime bill. Bill Clinton was the sitting President of the United States who introduced the crime bill Sanders voted for, who signed it into law. I think it fair to say that on the whole our white elected Democratic and Progressive leaders at every level have worked to advance civil rights but, and this might be controversial to some, they have not always worked hard enough. Sometimes they are stymied by Republican opposition, other times they seem to make what they might think are unavoidable expedient concessions to prevailing political realities.

The Black Congressional Caucus (aligned with outside political forces mobilized by people of color) is the political vanguard in the fight for racial justice in America, period. Not Bernie Sanders, certainly, nor even a white President like Bill Clinton who worked first as a Southern Governor and later as our nation's leader to advance the cause of justice in America. I have no problem when you or anyone else points out that Bernie Sanders is not at the very forefront of the fight for racial justice in this country. Nor do I ever disagree that actions speak louder than words. Yet I know in my heart that words still do matter, because there have been many times in my life that the power of words has broken through my unconscious denial and entrenched inertia in the face of realities that must be changed. Words have moved me to action in the past, so I always give some credit to those who speak them toward a positive end.

So on the one hand yes, Bernie Sanders is often given more credit than he deserves for his role in fighting for racial justice in America. On the other hand he also is often denied the credit that he does deserve for doing so, especially when one considers how frequently he is lambasted on that front compared to how the record of most sitting white, Democratic, U.S. Senators is, or more importantly is not, scrutinized.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
267. I agree with everything you said
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 10:53 AM
Jun 2018

Words DO matter and they do have the power to inspire and move people. And I think that Sanders has been eloquent, that he inspires and he moves people.

The issue I have is that many people aren't content to just give him credit for that. Instead they take it up several notches and not only seem to think - and then try to convince others - that he is saying things that other people aren't saying and haven't been saying (often more consistently and eloquently), but that he is actually doing far more than he is.

So, when I see such comments as "His progressive ideas are finally taking hold" and "if only more representatives spoke up like he did" or rewriting of history, as was done in this thread related to the nomination of Neil Gorsuch, I push back and remind people that Bernie is not the second coming of John Brown and he is certainly not standing alone at the forefront of the battle that, while he is not completely peripheral, he has hardly been anywhere close to the front or center of. I find that attitude not only misguided, it's insulting to the many, many people who HAVE been at the front and center - often at great personal and political risk (among other things, being accused of being "race baiters/race pimps," getting arrested not just once but repeatedly and to this day, being threatened, etc.) - and have done far more than dabble in it when it suits them.

You mentioned the Crime Bill, which is an interesting issue. As you said, Bernie voted for the bill (as did Joe Biden) and Bill Clinton signed it. But for some reason, Bill Clinton is the one who gets most of the blame and, very oddly, Hillary Clinton was blamed for it as well, even though she didn't even vote for it. Bernie and his supporters actually attacked both Clintons and whenever it was pointed out that Bernie signed it to, they give excuses about how there were aspects of the bill that were good and THAT's what he voted for - yet whenever anyone else tries to offer this kind of nuance for how and why they cast tough votes, they're just dismissed as sellouts.

But what many people don't seem to remember is that the Congressional Black Caucus overwhelmingly supported the Crime Bill and its members voter overwhelmingly for it. For years, CBC members saw how the crack crisis was decimating our communities and they pushed the President and their Congressional colleagues to stop ignoring it and do something. At the time, the Crime Bill was seen by many, including many black leaders and members of the black community, as the the kind of tough measure necessary to address the problem. For many reasons, the bill had many unintended consequences and ended up working out badly. And now, it's not surprising that some people Sunday morning quarterback it - but it's unacceptable in my book for the very people who supported it then to attack others fo voting exactly as they did.

And I am not one of those who denies Sanders for what he has done on racial justice. However, there is very little he can point to that he has done that involved any sacrifice or political risk. He often undermines any effort he wants to get credit for with tone-deaf and sometimes arrogant pronouncements and dismissals of the views and efforts of others who have fought much harder and more consistently and at greater risk for social justice than he has. And many of his supporters make it worse by trying to elevate him into a civil rights hero and attacking those who aren't as impressed with him as they are.

Tom Rinaldo

(22,913 posts)
309. Fair enough
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 12:49 PM
Jun 2018

I have no quarrel with anyone who believes that some other political leaders are or can be more effective at advancing civil rights than Sanders, I may or may not agree in any given instance, but that is an honest and yes important debate to have, especially during a presidential primary. In that instance voters are often asked to choose between two or more generally acceptable choices. View points as to which can be most effective at advancing specific causes are highly relevant in that context.

I will note that I did not raise the matter of the Crime Bill which, as you accurately point out, was a complicated matter. I commented on it only because you posted about it above in what I took to be a criticism of Sanders for voting for it: "No - he was voting for the crime bill and "speaking out" against things while others were doing the heavy lifting". If I misread your meaning there at least grant me that it was easy to reach that conclusion from your comment.

I've watched a lot of primary battles go down by now. I haven't seen any hotly contested one in which candidates and/or supporters of both sides haven't "spun" some issue to make one person look good and the other bad in a less than totally even handed manner. It happened a lot when Obama and Clinton ran against each other also. I accept your point about the attempts to use the "Crime Bill" against Hillary. For anyone who feels all of the people who backed it at the time were wrong to do so, it does not surprise me that Bill would get burdened most for doing so. He was the President of the United States at the time where "the buck" is said to stop. Hillary, however, wasn't.

I also agree with you that others (not Bernie) were doing the heavy lifting on civil rights during the time we speak of, although Sanders did consistently register one of the best voting records on civil rights of anyone in Congress. But I also read things on this thread, (not from you) that strike me as just plane foolish. It was said above that Bernie "fled to Vermont" from New York. No, but he did move there. It is a tiny percentage of those who stand strongly against racial discrimination, black or white, who make that fight the determining factor for where they choose to live their life (leaving aside those who may be forced to move for reasons of their own physical safety). But is is correct to note that some people do just that, go where the need is greatest and the fight is most dire, and those people, of any race, deserve to be considered true heroes for doing so. Granted, Sanders wasn't one of those heroes.

Three things bother me when I stumble upon threads that contain extensive criticism of Sanders. One is the fiction that repeatedly "speaking out" against "wrongs" in favor of positive alternatives is somehow inconsequential. We agree that words do matter so this is not addressed to you. High visibility on an issue is an essential precondition for moving public opinion regarding it. Republicans know this all to well, but unfortunately they practice the art for all the wrong reasons - most recently with constant hammering about "dangerous" immigrants, and attacks on the rule of law under the guise of countering a "deep state conspiracy". It moves the needle in their direction. Frozen out of the White House and out of leadership in both houses of Congress, Democrats need more not less barnstorming Senators carrying a progressive message. Sanders of course is not uniquely capable of doing so. Others do so also, be it Elizabeth Warren or more recently the emergence of Kamala Harris, it's all good - but Bernie Sanders seems to be almost uniquely targeted for so doing.

The corollary to the above complaint of mine is a fixation on whether or not Sanders has anything unique to offer. OK, this can be argued from both sides I suppose. Some Sanders fans get carried away in thinking that he invented progressive thought in America, which clearly he didn't. Nor are his ideas new under the sun. Nor is he always the first person in recent months or years to advocate for them. I doubt there are many issues of significance that anyone born since the turn of the 20th Century is radically breaking new ground on. Maybe internet privacy I suppose, but even that was foreshadowed by the Bill of Rights. FDR stole many of his policies from Socialist presidential candidates who preceded him. So what? FDR helped to successfully move those concepts into the mainstream of political debate at the time, the prerequisite for change. To deny that in some cases Bernie Sanders is effective in doing just that is petty. It does not take credit away from those who preceded him to acknowledge that. Others powerfully decried racial injustice in America long before MLK Jr was born. Thank God for the Giants who precede us all, and for all those who were first to introduce important pieces of legislation. It isn't a zero sum game.

What bothers me most though is a refusal on some people's part to acknowledge the effort some have made to paint Bernie Sanders as being more racist than your average Democratic bear, or at least to be overly dismissive of whatever actual contributions he has made. An OP with this subject line got 52 Recs here last week: "True Colors: Bernie Sanders, Our Revolution, and the Racist Left." True, it didn't literally say Bernie Sanders is a racist. But if someone recites two plus two equals ___, what number springs to mind? Remember when photographs first were published of Bernie Sanders leading a sit in against racism at the University of Chicago? Someone went to a great deal of trouble then to develop an alternate theory of that event, going so far as to convince the University to change the captions associated with those photos in the University archives to remove Bernie Sanders name from those photos and replace it with that of a different student. It took the public intervention of the subsequently famous photographer who took the actual photos, who retained the original photo negatives in their original photo sequencing, before the correct Bernie Sanders caption was restored. It's called politics and all sides practice it to some degree.

I accept that people in good faith have wildly divergent views of Bernie Sanders in some regards. i respect your opinion of him for what it is, an opinion with the same intellectual integrity as mine, just different - but with substantial areas of agreement.





KPN

(15,646 posts)
296. Good job of trivializing Bernie's activities
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 11:58 AM
Jun 2018

in the past and over the course of his life. The comparison to Charlton Heston and Mitch McConnell was particularly effective.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
302. You must not have read my post.
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 12:09 PM
Jun 2018

Since, had you done so, you would have seen that I made a special point of praising Bernie for what he’s done and explicitly said I was NOT comparing him to McConnell and Heston.

Or perhaps you actually did read it, know that I didn’t say or imply what you’re claiming but you decided to misrepresent my comments anyway.

Either way, your failure to offer a cogent response to my post is noted.

Gothmog

(145,359 posts)
357. I am still waiting to see what Sanders has actually accomplished.
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 04:55 PM
Jun 2018

What has sanders actually accomplished in the real world? Can you point us to some actual accomplishments?

KPN

(15,646 posts)
388. See it how you will. I'll take Sanders' honest critique of our economic-political system
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 09:51 PM
Jun 2018

today over legislative accomplishments that have accompanied, on balance, a steady decline of the middle class and rocketing income inequality over the past 40 years, thank you. I'll take directly attacking the problem with a highly visible public outreach campaign over triangulating or more of the same old same old any day.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
390. Because no one knew about any of this before Bernie started talking about it ...
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 10:13 PM
Jun 2018

If giving "honest critiques of our economic-political system" is more important than trying to address it through legislation and government policy, why is Bernie wasting his precious time being a member of the country's most establishment legislative body, taking up a seat that could be held by someone who actually wants to accomplish something legislatively?

Why doesn't he walk away from the political part of the economic-political system he's so critical of and just travel the country "directly attacking the problem" by advancing his public outreach campaign?

Gothmog

(145,359 posts)
404. Making speeches do not accomplish anything in the real world
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 11:21 PM
Jun 2018

I have yet to see any accomplishments listed for sanders. What has he accomplished in the real world?

Gothmog

(145,359 posts)
392. So sanders has no accomplishments in the real world?
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 10:40 PM
Jun 2018

Just talking does not equal accomplishments

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
434. That's great. It was the 1960s, and not that many white males were interested
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 02:40 AM
Jun 2018

in marching or demonstrating for civil rights. I was actually alive at that time. I remember. Good people demonstrated, but it was not as easy or common as it would be today.

I can see the difference in my family. There was a poll on DU today about whether our families are racially mixed. In the 1960s, a racially mixed family was rare. Neither I nor any of my siblings married people of other races. But it is quite different for our children. And one of my nephews adopted two African-American children although he and his wife are white. Several of the children of my generation are married to people of color including one of my own daughters and two other sister's daughters.

Times have changed. Bernie was ahead of most people of his time when it comes to civil rights.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
54. So is Sanders still appearing on Russia-propaganda station RT?
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 09:55 PM
Jun 2018

Where is Thom Hartmann broadcasting from these days?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Picture_with_Thom_Hartmann

The Big Picture with Thom Hartmann is an American TV talk/news show owned, hosted and produced by political commentator and radio host Thom Hartmann, and Hartmann's production company (which also produces his radio show), Mythical Research, Inc., and is represented by WYD Media, Inc.

SNIP

The show is now recorded and broadcast live by RT America, the Washington, D.C.-based affiliate of RT with a presence on both over-the-air and cable TV systems in many major American cities, also continues to be syndicated by Free Speech TV and carried nationwide on both Dish Network channel 9415, DirecTV Channel 348, and on local Public-access television stations across the country.[1] From January 17, 2012 RT's international English-language channel started to broadcast it worldwide in over 100 countries.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/09/20/rt-wants-to-spread-moscows-propaganda-here-lets-treat-it-that-way/?utm_term=.de678bb8ae89

RT is not a “news service” in any meaningful sense of the term. Reputable news services don’t employ Illuminati correspondents. RT has no regard whatsoever for basic journalistic values like objectivity or the pursuit of truth; Ofcom, the British government media regulatory body, has repeatedly rebuked the network for breaching basic broadcasting standards, far more than any other network. That Dmitri Kiselyov, a bombastic Russian television host who oversees RT’s parent organization, is included on a list of Russian officials sanctioned by the European Union for the annexation of Crimea, indicates that our E.U. allies rightly view the network’s employees not as journalists but functionaries in a regime. At a May news conference with Russian President Vladimir Putin, French President Emmanuel Macron defended his successful campaign’s decision to deny access to RT and Sputnik, calling them “agents of influence and propaganda.” When I wanted to protest the Russian government’s anti-gay campaign in the summer of 2013, it made sense to do so during a live broadcast on RT, as the network is widely understood to be a mouthpiece for the Russian government.

SNIP

As best we can tell, RT’s content is shaped in close consultation with the Kremlin. Russian President Vladimir Putin himself admitted in 2013 that RT “cannot help but reflect the Russian government’s official position on the events in our country and in the rest of the world one way or another.” RT’s utterly opaque governance structure, as well as testimony from former employees and the Russian leader himself, suggest that those who work for it do so at the “direction or control” of the Kremlin.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
91. The links don't say where Thom Hartmann is broadcasting from now. Or whether
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 10:35 PM
Jun 2018

perhaps the poster was referring to a broadcast from prior to September, when he was on RT.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
320. He only learned about people being jailed for not affording tickets when he went to some sort of
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 01:23 PM
Jun 2018

Town hall thing on Ferguson. He was shocked. I was shocked he hadn’t done his homework and didn’t know Mike Brown was on his way to furthering his education and not spending his life “hanging around”. I always thought that sounded weird coming from someone with such a very sketchy employment history.

Gothmog

(145,359 posts)
356. The Harris County DA is one of the DA's who was supported by Soros
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 04:53 PM
Jun 2018

Kim Ogg has done an amazing job in Harris county. She was supported by Soros.

Response to Donkees (Original post)

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
102. Yes indeed... you'll never see Bernie with his finger in the air...
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 10:47 PM
Jun 2018

trying to figure out which way the political winds are blowing like so many politicians these days... Bernie has been creating his on political movements forcing the winds of change for over half a century. It started back in the day with the civil rights movement, leading non-violent campus protests, and he hasn't stopped yet speaking out for the under-priveleged, under-represented, and under-funded masses of people who lack power and a voice in our society. Bernie's long history of speaking truth to power on their behalf is what truly sets Bernie apart.

mountain grammy

(26,629 posts)
127. During the last year of Obama's presidency
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 11:13 PM
Jun 2018

I heard him many times speaking out about the GOP refusing to hold hearings on the President's choice for the Supreme Court. It was loud and often. Every show he appeared on he ranted about it. . Maybe if all Democratic reps had done that we wouldn't have puke Gorsuch for the next fucking half a century..

I love that Sanders has rallies.. get people fired up. More Dems should do it. Raise your voices! Be heard. Americans citizens are rotting in prisons. Children are being separated from their parents.. Start screaming!

sheshe2

(83,804 posts)
149. I heard him call for our beloved president to be primaried.
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 11:34 PM
Jun 2018

The best President in my lifetime, Bernie wanted Obama primaried. A beloved sitting President and BS wanted him primaried.

mountain grammy
127. During the last year of Obama's presidency

I heard him many times speaking out about the GOP refusing to hold hearings on the President's choice for the Supreme Court. It was loud and often. Every show he appeared on he ranted about it. . Maybe if all Democratic reps had done that we wouldn't have puke Gorsuch for the next fucking half a century..

I love that Sanders has rallies.. get people fired up. More Dems should do it. Raise your voices! Be heard. Americans citizens are rotting in prisons. Children are being separated from their parents.. Start screaming!


SMH
 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
152. He also criticized the nomination because he said he was too conservative and promised
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 11:43 PM
Jun 2018

to withdraw the nomination if he were elected and replace him with a more liberal nominee.

Where I come from, we call that talking out of both sides of your mouth - when we’re being polite.

Yeah, that was really helpful.

You might want to pick a different example.

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
182. Bernie has always set an example for what it means to be a real advocate for change...
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 12:34 AM
Jun 2018

His rallies are legendary - have attended several - most always well attended and boisterous!! People leave feeling energized and eager to make a difference... exactly what you look for in a presidential candidate capable of calling out and defeating that corrupt, racist Dotard currently occupying the White House.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
185. "Advocating" for change is great - but he's a U.S. Senator with the power to DO things
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 12:38 AM
Jun 2018

What has he done to actually change anything, besides talk about it?

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
189. Gee, I don't know...
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 12:47 AM
Jun 2018

let's start with getting many, soon to be all, of the top presidential hopefuls for 2020 to swear off taking dirty corporate PAC money and, when Bernie did that all by his lonesome, he still was able to come from 3% in the polls and 60+ points down to put a real scare in those greedy corporations... that's what a true leader does... set the example, even though not popular at the time, that others then follow. (Also known as real change)

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
203. Wow. That's quite a stretch
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 02:03 AM
Jun 2018

First of all giving Sanders credit for potential candidates committing not to take pac money is rather ridiculous. But even if, for argument’s sake, we say that Bernie “set the example,” this is hardly groundbreaking or life-changing stuff. He’s been in the House or Senate for nearly 30 years and his biggest accomplishment that you can point to is that, 26 years in, he ran for president and didn’t take PAC money which led other potential candidates to say they won’t take PAC money in 2020? That’s it? That’s hardly a record of a Profile in Courage who is getting things done in the Senate.

That said, Sanders is not Caesar’s wife here - not even close. While he doesn’t take direct contributions from PACs, he has gladly accepted PAC spending on his behalf. In fact, outside PACs spent more to support Bernie’s campaign than for any Democratic candidate in 2016.

So not only is Bernie’s pledge undone by a huuuuge loophole,it is hardly proof that he is getting much done.

Bernie Sanders Tops His Rivals in Use of Outside Money

The union’s “super PAC” has spent close to $1 million on ads and other support for Mr. Sanders, the Democratic presidential candidate who has inspired liberal voters with his calls to eradicate such outside groups. In fact, more super PAC money has been spent so far in express support of Mr. Sanders than for either of his Democratic rivals, including Hillary Clinton, according to Federal Election Commission records.

Mr. Sander’s unlikely rise to super PAC pre-eminence is, in part, the story of an unusual alignment of strategies by different outside groups, including Republican ones eager to bloody Mrs. Clinton and lift Mr. Sanders, whom conservatives believe will be easier to defeat in a general election. While the nurses’ super PAC is the biggest left-leaning outside spender in the Democratic primary, conservative organizations have also spent at least $4.3 million attacking Mrs. Clinton in recent months.

One recent online ad from the Republican super PAC American Crossroads has assailed Mrs. Clinton for her Wall Street speaking fees — echoing an argument Mr. Sanders often makes against her. Another conservative group, Ending Spending, bankrolled by the Wyoming billionaire Joe Ricketts, has begun a $600,000 campaign in Iowa highlighting Mr. Sanders’s promises to raise taxes on the rich and provide free public college tuition, calling him “too liberal for Iowa.” But the ad’s language and imagery, including a contented-looking superrich couple hugging in front of a mansion and expensive cars, has led some Democrats to believe it is actually meant to bolster Mr. Sanders.
...
The group’s campaigning advocacy for Mr. Sanders has drawn charges of hypocrisy from Mrs. Clinton’s supporters. While Mr. Sanders frequently declares that he has no super PAC of his own, he has not publicly called on the nurses to refrain from their efforts on his behalf. He has welcomed their help, thanking the nurses by name in campaign speeches and referring to the union in one recent appearance as a “one of the sponsors” of his campaign.


https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/29/us/politics/bernie-sanders-is-democrats-top-beneficiary-of-outside-spending-like-it-or-not.html

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
209. You wanna talk about stretching?! LOL
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 02:54 AM
Jun 2018

You say advocating for change is great, but ask what has Bernie actually done to change anything... I gave you just one of the more recent examples of Bernie's leadership and advocacy during his time in office that has changed the way the Democratic Party through it's top 2020 presidential hopefuls have come around to Bernie's way of thinking in terms of swearing off tainted corporate cash contributions, after seeing what he actually accomplished by taking that tact - just one of the many ways Bernie endeared himself with voters - coming out of nowhere, from 3% in the polls and 60+ points down... and then, not only do you belittle what can only be described as a MAJOR policy change - not just "anything" - but you also twist it in such a way as to create yet another basis to bash Bernie. Now THERE'S a stretch!! (Good try though!)

mountain grammy

(26,629 posts)
252. Truth..
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 10:21 AM
Jun 2018

Thanks to Bernie's popularity and success, more and more candidates are publicly refusing corporate cash. Right there is just one of his many contributions to a discourse about the government representing people instead of corporations. Everything he said at that rally and all his rallies and appearances are the truth, and we all know it, and people are demanding change.

This isn't a rational conversation. It's flat out hate for Bernie Sanders and his supporters. He moved to Vermont.. how dare he? How can he possilbly advocate for all Americans as a Vermont resident? That's how absurd this has become; the demonizing and ridicule of Sanders and, by extension, those of us who support him, is just wrong.

"The ultimate tragedy is not the oppression and cruelty by the bad people but the silence over that by the good people." Martin Luther King, Jr.

But not the "good people" of Vermont and certainly not Bernie Sanders.. they better just shut up. Too many fine contributors to this board have chosen to leave over this. Bernie doesn't deserve it and neither do we.

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
290. Love what you said here grammy... you put it into words better than anyone could have
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 11:36 AM
Jun 2018

the outright hate some here have for all things Bernie and his supporters... no wonder, like you say, so many fine contributors have left DU over this. I too have thought of ditching this place over this onslaught of hate, but, thanks to good folks like you, I've stuck with it to stand up for what's right.

It's tough though and I understand people's frustrations. No matter how much Bernie contributes to change for the betterment of society, no matter his many accomplishments in moving people to see the benefits of, and thereby adopt, a more progressive agenda, no matter how big his rallies, no matter how many new voters he brings to the Democratic Party, no matter how many times he votes with the Democrats, more than any Democrat, no matter how much he leads the resistance against BLOTUS... I could keep going... it will NEVER be enough!!

It's getting almost comical the stretching and contortions of some have to do to feign rightious outrage at this great man. BTW, regarding your list of ridiculous criticisms by the Bernie Bashers, you forgot to mention that Bernie took time off from campaigning in Vermont to go represent Disney workers in California - the horror of it all!!!! - to the utter dismay of Vermont voters.

Oh, and you forgot to mention Bernie's not a Democrat... in case people forgot!

mountain grammy

(26,629 posts)
373. Thank you.
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 07:36 PM
Jun 2018

I find it much easier to stay off these threads and will in the future, but damn, just listen to what he said at this rally. It's the truth and it's not being said enough by enough representatives.

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
374. You got that right grammy! And cuz of your appreciation for, and defense of Bernie...
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 07:48 PM
Jun 2018

You will receive the honor of an exclusive invitation to this year's "Bernie Basher" Golden Hammer Awards dinner, as a distinguished guest and esteemed judge for this coveted prize that will be handed out on Award night:



And, just for your contributions to the "good fight," you will also receive an all new, complimentary pair of "Bernie All Star" edition Chuck Taylors... because "if the shoe fits, wear it"... on the other hand, the sneaks should help with this, "if the foo's shit, bear it".

Response to mountain grammy (Reply #252)

 

Kentonio

(4,377 posts)
229. You say it's 'great' that he advocates for change
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 08:20 AM
Jun 2018

But then never miss an opportunity to run him down for not changing the world single handedly. The whole point of energizing people and advocating for change is to convince enough people to make those things actually possible. One senator can not achieve everything alone, but when he convinces many millions of Americans that the country can be a better place, and it’s not just some pipe dream, then real change becomes possible. If all you do is talk that down, then you’re doing the opposite of working for positive change.

sheshe2

(83,804 posts)
199. UMHMMM
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 01:31 AM
Jun 2018
jalan48
80. He's been doing the right thing for 50+ years. No need to "evolve" like some politicians.


Yup. Solidify all you need to know in life 27 years old. Never change. That statement is frightening. Never change, as life changes around you, never, ever change. Stay the course.
 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
435. Please name one Democratic politician who can draw the crowds that Bernie draws.
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 02:45 AM
Jun 2018

And so many of them are young voters.

I would like to see some other Democratic politicians doing what Bernie does.

George II

(67,782 posts)
57. Do you have anything other than that tweet? In fact, the LA Times has an article on the rally....
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 10:05 PM
Jun 2018

....and it appears that the "crowd" is over estimated, unless it was a tiny theater:

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-bernie-sanders-disneyland-20180602-story.html

"At a rally attended by hundreds of Disneyland Resort workers, Sen. Bernie Sanders spoke out Saturday..."

sheshe2

(83,804 posts)
74. The author of the tweet
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 10:22 PM
Jun 2018

Ari Rabin-Havt
Verified account
@AriRabinHavt
Senior Adviser @SenSanders Author of Lies Incorporated and The Fox Effect.

George II

(67,782 posts)
79. Yes - here's his LinkedIn profile:
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 10:24 PM
Jun 2018

Ari Rabin-Havt

Senior Advisor to Sen. Bernie Sanders

Current - U.S. Senator Bernard Sanders
Previous - Sirius XM Radio Inc., Media Matters for America, American Independent

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
437. The theater in Los Angeles -- probably cost a king's ransom.
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 02:50 AM
Jun 2018

It's not easy to pay to rent a theater here.

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
436. Bernie held several rallies in Southern California.
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 02:49 AM
Jun 2018

Our Democratic primary is this coming Tuesday. He was trying to get Democrats out to vote.

Please list the Democrats that draw crowds larger than Bernies -- or even as large as Bernies and with so many young people in the crowds.

Bernie was speaking about three issues: wages at Disneyland (and Disneyland raised those wages apparently in response to his visit), the problems of people on the docks and driving trucks who are paid as independent contractors than as people earning fair and predictable wages, and, third, the Black Lives Matter prison issues.

We are happy to have Bernie help the get out the Democratic vote effort in California. His presence reminds Democrats to vote.

ismnotwasm

(41,995 posts)
68. He's never ever going to be president
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 10:18 PM
Jun 2018

So it’s well that he is using he voice for speaking more to social justice and not dismissing it as “identity politics”

BannonsLiver

(16,403 posts)
129. "He's never going to be president."
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 11:13 PM
Jun 2018

That’s absolutely true. Someone should get that memo to Bernie, and preferably before 2020.

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
600. Nevertheless, Bernie got Democrats, especially young Democrats, out to vote.
Wed Jun 6, 2018, 11:54 AM
Jun 2018

They didn't vote for Our Revolution candidates; they voted for Democrats. But his appearances helped remind people to vote. That's great.

Gothmog

(145,359 posts)
601. Do you have any proof this claim??
Wed Jun 6, 2018, 12:12 PM
Jun 2018

Sanders and Our Revolution are not being taken seriously by most real democrats

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
602. Why do I need any? His appearances made the news. The news reports remind
Wed Jun 6, 2018, 12:23 PM
Jun 2018

voters, especially young voters, to get out and vote. The news reports I saw did not differentiate between "Revolution" and other candidates for the Democratic nomination. Bernie is well known and popular. Our Revolution is not so well known or popular.

Gothmog

(145,359 posts)
606. Analysis: How did Bernie Sanders Democrats do in the primaries?
Wed Jun 6, 2018, 03:46 PM
Jun 2018

Sanders did not do well https://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/2018/06/06/analysis-how-did-bernie-sanders-democrats-do-primaries/676864002/

Only a handful of candidates running under the Bernie Sanders banner survived primaries held in six states on Tuesday.

As of Wednesday afternoon, only seven of 31 candidates endorsed by Our Revolution -- a political group affiliated with Vermont’s independent senator -- had been declared winners. Another two races were undecided.

At best, fewer than one-third of the endorsed candidates won.

The endorsement and support of Our Revolution is not very valuable

NanceGreggs

(27,815 posts)
121. He hoped to be the candidate ...
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 11:04 PM
Jun 2018

... but refused to release his tax returns.

Doesn't that tell you something?

 

shanny

(6,709 posts)
122. Tells me that somebody is moving the goalposts
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 11:06 PM
Jun 2018

since traditionally the candidate releases tax returns.

NanceGreggs

(27,815 posts)
134. It's not just the lack of disclosure ...
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 11:17 PM
Jun 2018

... of those tax returns that I find troubling.

It's the fact that he blamed their unavailability on his wife, because she was the "family accountant" and, as he insisted, had simply "misplaced them".

It's the fact that everyone knows that he could have gotten copies of tax returns from the IRS - but never endeavoured to do so.

It's the fact that as a seasoned politician, he KNEW those tax returns would be expected - and yet he never bothered to ensure they were available before throwing his hat in the ring.

It's just one thing among many that Bernie never had a reasonable explanation for.

R B Garr

(16,955 posts)
268. No, that's not what it tells you. It tells you about hypocrisy.
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 10:57 AM
Jun 2018

When one candidate makes accusations of financial wrongdoing of others, but then refuses to be transparent about his own finances, that is hypocrisy. That’s hilarious you want to claim he wasn’t a candidate.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
352. He has been a candidate for Congress, Senate or president for the past 30+ years
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 03:35 PM
Jun 2018

Where are his tax returns?

George II

(67,782 posts)
143. A bigger crowd than the LA Times' "hundreds". He and Jane PROMISED them by the end of April.....
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 11:29 PM
Jun 2018

....yes, April 2016! Still waiting.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
170. No one gave a shit about her emails because they read them AFTER SHE RELEASED THEM and saw there was
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 12:18 AM
Jun 2018

no there there.

Bernie needs to release his tax returns and if therer’s no there, we won’t give a shit about them, either.

But until he does we have to wonder what he’s hiding. There must be something in them he doesn’t want us to see or else why not just release them and be done with it?

LostOne4Ever

(9,289 posts)
176. Yeah, that is the purpose of this site to promote liberals and Liberalism!
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 12:23 AM
Jun 2018

And of course to denegrate Republicans!

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus

And Bernie Sanders is considered one of the People we support!

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
194. You know it! Bernie embodies the progressive spirit that drew me to DU many years ago.
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 01:07 AM
Jun 2018

He hasn't changed much over time... never timid about speaking truth to power. With Bernie, it's always WYSIWYG!!

sheshe2

(83,804 posts)
206. Yep
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 02:38 AM
Jun 2018
He hasn't changed much over time.


According to Mountain Grammie above post...the man has stuck to principles for 60 long years and has never wavered nor has she. Hm, he solidified all he believes in then and today at 16 years old?

95. He's been saying the same things for almost 60 years.

and that's why we love him.. he never had to change or evolve on civil rights, gay rights, women's rights or human rights and neither have I, so I'm never bored or distracted by someone who has held most of the same beliefs as me as long as he's been a public figure. He never once said for political gain "marriage is between a man and a woman." He never, for political gain, demanded secrecy and silence from gays in the military.

Did you have to 'evolve' on any of the rights listed above? Many Democrats have you know.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210687499#post9



Say what. 16 and never waivered from thier ideals for 60 frigging years???? WHAT! That is terrifying.

FirstLight

(13,362 posts)
131. Loves me some Bernie!
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 11:16 PM
Jun 2018

I watched him on Bill Maher this week and the thing that gets me is that he will ALWAYS be that person who speaks Truth to Power and he never wavers on his message for the 99%
As someone said upthread, you won't see HIM standing with his finger up to see which way the wind is blowing...! I'm proud to say we have a progressive Dem in my district who is really aligned with the whole movement, can't wait to vote for her Tuesday!!!







(...I'm wondering why so many people on a Democratic board are being so snarky about him? Kinda rude IMO, they really had no need to try and hijack the OP by being that way...whatever. Guess it's just the usual suspects who like to shit on others anyway)

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
439. Other Democrats should join him and say what they really think.
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 02:54 AM
Jun 2018

Voters know when a candidate is trying hard to say the "right" thing without really believing it. Voters also know when a candidate is sincere. It can make the difference between winning and losing an election. That sincerity that voters can sense.

nini

(16,672 posts)
145. Looks like the Black turnout in that crowd was small
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 11:31 PM
Jun 2018

Kinda like his support in the black community in general. And yes, I am fully aware this event was with BLM leaders which makes it even more obvious to me.

Sanders still has a problem with black folks it appears.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
339. I know, right? You're not the only one who noticed.
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 02:14 PM
Jun 2018
145. Looks like the Black turnout in that crowd was small

Kinda like his support in the black community in general. And yes, I am fully aware this event was with BLM leaders which makes it even more obvious to me.
I know, right? You're not the only one who noticed.

Sanders still has a problem with black folks it appears.
I'm not sure exactly what that tells us about Sanders, but it certainly doesn't seem to be very flattering about his ability to connect with a diverse population.

I'll I'm trying to say is that if his "appeal" was as universal as his loudest followers would have us believe, then we should expect that the photos of these "rally" events would show a greater mix of individuals that better represent the area and our nation.


nini

(16,672 posts)
342. Considering the Black vote stands to save this country he's got a huge problem
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 02:18 PM
Jun 2018

But what do I know?

catbyte

(34,412 posts)
147. I'm not sure why so many on DU talk about Bernie so much. He ditched the Democratic Party the
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 11:31 PM
Jun 2018

minute the election was over. I know he caucuses with the Democrats, but it seems like he wants it both ways. I just sort of got over him the minute he dumped the Democratic party. And besides, this is DEMOCRATIC Underground.

George II

(67,782 posts)
174. NEWS FLASH! That photograph posted by Mr. Rabin-Havt appears to be FAKE!!! Sanders appeared...
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 12:21 AM
Jun 2018

...at a church at 201 East Broadway in Anaheim. According to Rabin-Havt he "went outside" to talk to them.

There isn't a Subway Restaurant even CLOSE to 201 East Broadway in Anaheim!!!!

Why do that?

George II

(67,782 posts)
464. The tweet was posted shortly after 5:00 PM local time, the Million Dollar Theater rally...
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 11:31 AM
Jun 2018

....was in the evening:

"The event is part of a packed day for the progressive senator, with Sanders going on to host a town hall in Carson around wage theft for Los Angeles and Long Beach port truck drivers and warehouse workers and a rally that evening at the Million Dollar Theater in downtown Los Angeles"

https://commercialobserver.com/2018/06/bernie-sanders-takes-on-disneyland-for-poverty-wages-at-anaheim-rally/

"Back to the drawing board"!

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
315. What?! A fake photo??!!
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 01:11 PM
Jun 2018
George II

174. NEWS FLASH! That photograph posted by Mr. Rabin-Havt appears to be FAKE!!! Sanders appeared...

...at a church at 201 East Broadway in Anaheim. According to Rabin-Havt he "went outside" to talk to them.

There isn't a Subway Restaurant even CLOSE to 201 East Broadway in Anaheim!!!!

Why do that?
What?! A fake photo??!!

"Why do that?" is the question I'd be asking too. It's the question that everyone should be asking.

Aside from the DISHONEST nature of the photograph, I had noticed that the photo was a TRICKY extra w-i-d-e angle "wrap around" shots that present the viewer with a rather DECEPTIVE illusion.

All I'm trying to say here is that the nature of the photo (when viewed as a single shot) is NOT and accurate representation of the REALITY of the moment. That's not what the human eye would have seen, and the DISTORTED IMAGE is not how a human would have perceived it.

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,330 posts)
378. The only distortion of reality is claiming the church rally is the theater rally.
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 08:04 PM
Jun 2018

If someone is going to go off on some Secret Squirrel google mission and claim the photo and tweet are fake, they should at least get the facts straight. And also learn the difference between Anaheim California and Los Angeles California.

The church rally took place in the morning in a church.

The “theater” rally took place in Los Angeles at The Million Dollar Theater. Notice the Subway across the street from The Million Dollar Theater.



nini

(16,672 posts)
355. Sanders was also at the Million Dollar theater in L.A. at 5 PM according to what I found online
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 04:12 PM
Jun 2018

That Guadalupe Wedding chapel in the back of the photo is in the same area.

What I do wonder though.. the event was scheduled for 5PM That pic was tweeted around 5:15 so he went out that early? Or left the people inside waiting? Like someone else said they got that platform up pretty fast if it was supposed to be inside.





VOX

(22,976 posts)
177. That trick he did with the loaves and fishes was awesome!
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 12:24 AM
Jun 2018

Plus, I got a free lunch! Looking forward to free college (so I can finish that pesky masters degree), and free medical care! Bernie will really stick it to those “millionayahs and billionayahs,” boy, will they be sorry. Fox News will give him a pass, because he’s so pure, even Trump likes him! Paradise is just a Bernie away, folks! If you can’t see it, you’re blind! Who needs Democrats, anyway? ¡BERNIE!
- - - - - -

Response to VOX (Reply #177)

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
314. I imagine many people have also noticed the same thing...
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 01:01 PM
Jun 2018

... or even if they didn't notice right away, now that you've brought it to our attention, it's difficult to deny the truth of your astute observations.

democrank

(11,098 posts)
214. There are reasons Bernie Sanders has a lot of supporters around the country.
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 05:32 AM
Jun 2018

There are reasons around 70% of Vermonters supported Bernie's last senate race and I guarantee being "mostly white" isn't one of them. Bernie's decades-long support for social and economic justice, the environment, and veterans rights sits well with a majority of Vermonters and millions of people across the country.

The Democratic Party will need Bernie supporters (and Independents) in the next election, so I'm not certain this constant bashing of him....or them....is helpful.


LostOne4Ever

(9,289 posts)
215. Russian Trolls like to create conflict in the Democratic Party by attacking Bernie
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 05:41 AM
Jun 2018

Everyone else has moved on and is trying to work together to stop Dump. But the Russia moles want us to keep fighting and refighting the primaries and tear apart every voice for liberalism. They took down Hillary and now it is time to take down Sanders.

We know them by their work. They won't even let the most innocent of posts go without trying to start a fight. That is not the actions of people trying to beat Trump...it is the actions of those TRYING to create discord among liberals so Trump will get a second term.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
347. :ROFL:
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 03:05 PM
Jun 2018
Russian Trolls like to create conflict in the Democratic Party by attacking Bernie


We know them by their work. They won't even let the most innocent of posts go without trying to start a fight.


it is the actions of those TRYING to create discord among liberals so Trump will get a second term.




sheshe2

(83,804 posts)
532. So posting facts is attacking Bernie?
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 10:35 PM
Jun 2018
Everyone else has moved on and is trying to work together to stop Dump. But the Russia moles want us to keep fighting and refighting the primaries and tear apart every voice for liberalism.


Primaries? Who is discussing primaries. What he says and does in 2018 is not about the primaries and we are all liberals here.



We know them by their work. They won't even let the most innocent of posts go without trying to start a fight.


Seems to me that you are talking about DUers here. Are you really calling those that disagree with Bernie, trolls?

That is not the actions of people trying to beat Trump...it is the actions of those TRYING to create discord among liberals so Trump will get a second term.


So. If I understand your post. Anyone that disagrees with Bernie is a troll TRYING to create discord and pumping up Trump. You also claim what he is quoted as saying in 2018 is us refighting a 2016 primary? What? Oh wait, you accuse us of being Russian as well.

Here is a fact. I am an American citizen. I am a Democrat who votes solely for Democrats across the board. I have never wavered with my vote or sat out an election because of a candidate not being 100% of what I wished them to be.

Vinca

(50,285 posts)
226. I'm over in Vermont about every day and can even get the lone Trumphumper I know to admit
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 07:51 AM
Jun 2018

positive things about Bernie. If not for Bernie, veterans in that town would have to travel more than an hour for medical care. Bernie got them a local clinic. He's done a great job representing Vermonters. Pat Leahy has, too.

tavernier

(12,393 posts)
218. Here we go again...
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 06:33 AM
Jun 2018

“Mildred, hold my glasses, I have to get in there and kick some ass!”



(Meanwhile, the republicans are gathered in the coat room, picking all the pockets)

Same old, same old.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
222. California has an important primary election in two days.
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 07:04 AM
Jun 2018

He seemed very interested in our elections two years ago. Now he appears to have forgotten about them.

 

Civic Justice

(870 posts)
228. Some of his Ideas are Good for a Democracy where Social Justic Supports Social Democracy ...
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 08:19 AM
Jun 2018

Last edited Sun Jun 3, 2018, 09:33 AM - Edit history (1)

He has been around long enough to know that we won't do it in leaps and jumps.. it will still be step by step. Therefore, he should not lead his followers to think that he or anyone else can create a system that Leaps and Jumps, and his followers should know better than to expect this nation to suddenly become one that Leaps and Jumps... Therefore, he would do himself, his followers and our system far more benefit, to accord himself to work with a framework of more Democratically centered positions, that in principle can aspire to the long term aspirations of some of his ideals, but be wise enough to know... the only way to achieve them, is STEP BY STEP.... Not Long Leaps and High Jumps...

I think what he needs to do is "embrace the Democrats, who have the like ideals about "equality" in the voting process, and various other things he speaks of that are in line with Democrats. Some of the more far fetched things, he could do much better to work with Democrats and Streamline those things to fit the framework of a more Democratically centered position.

He is not going to be President, and when he realize that, IF the things he cares about is truly cared about, then he'll have no choice in a true reasonable awareness, but to come to the conclusion; it is necessary to work with the Democrats in ways that support whom ever becomes the Front Running Democrat to proceed with a Step by Step process, and get past the thoughts of Leaps and Jumps.

Sadly, his ego won't allow him to think in such terms. He might even be a considered one for Vice President, with a Democratic President whom they can work on reasonable Democratically Centered Objectives. Then he likely could be effective in that role, in ways that could be beneficial. Granted, his manner is far better than the asshole we have in office now, but He is not the Presidential Character Type and Dispositional Manner, that we need in the office of the President.

I read the positions he has of the elements of this nation, and some of them are good, but they need to be more centralized in the framework of Democratic Platform Expectations. For one, the Nation will not move that Far too the Left on some issues that Sanders speak of. But... with the Right President, and Sanders maybe in a VP role, tasked with a select set of objectives, then he could be effective, without going out of bounds in the ways that a Nations Moves forward.

We as a nation "have never been one that Leaps like a Frog jumping, we take steps by steps in moving forward.

As said, on some select items and issues, he may be capable to make multiple steps, but there is not going to be any massive leaps...

The $20+ Trillion and Rising Debt is not going to maliciously vanish. Although his idea of 1 Trillion in Industrial Building is good, but its no good if it is targeted to give it to "existing industry" !!! IF he thinks in Terms of 1 Trillion for Small Business Start Up's all across America, then we can see growth and development in the small towns, rural areas as well as inner cities, as a core focus, it is evident lesser focus and lesser investment in needed in much of suburbia, because of the resources that have already been moved into suburbia, so they would be initially salted for a lesser amount, beause the bulk in needed in small towns, rural areas and inner cities.

I'd say, Sander's followers and their passion is not a bad thing, but they need not look to him with the same type of "Blind devotion that is exactly like the blind followers of Trump" continue to demonstrate. It's fine to listen, but it is not fine to "stop thinking, and fall in some devotional clique as if he is some master guru", because he is not, and he will never be, the Pied Piper of American people. We see the damage of a Pied Piper mentality and the damage it is with the Trump zombies.

All this stuff of wanting to Ride on the Democratic Ticket, but not wanting to "meld" ideas with the Democratic Centered Positions, will do nothing but result to split votes and give Republican yet, another edge.

We are a Nation that moves forward in Time which has brought us to this day and age, but we don't leap and jump... as long as Sanders has been around he should know that, and not mislead his followers to to think that America will suddenly become a nation that leaps and jumps. In 25 yrs, Sander likely won't even be on earth, but the future generation making people will be, and they will be in charge of what and how the future moves forward... and they won't do it in leaps and jumps.. it will still be step by step.

Part 1

 

Civic Justice

(870 posts)
233. Part 2
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 09:09 AM
Jun 2018

There are other players in the game, with Democratic Concerns and Ideals...that are intricate to what is to be the future of America and how it gets there.
We first have to get back the Congress and the Presidency, and that is not going to happen based on the platform of Sanders, because its based on some Long Leaps and High Jumps... which is not feasible... when there is an entire nation of people that must be brought along.

We have segments of massive volumes of under-educated people, and we have segments of people who have been driven on a misdirection pathway for a very long time by Republican Agenda, and with that, not only is there a mass of under-educated, there is a mass of obstinate uneducated people... Sad to say, without the Democrat and Independent ranks, truth is we too have a mass of under-educated people, as well as uneducated people.

Therefore, we are bound to move only in a "Step by Step" basis. Within those Steps, we MUST concern ourselves with rudimentary things, such as "RE INVIGORATING CIVICS EDUCATION'S" within our Educational system and it must be done through out the entire system of education from K-12 to and through the system of higher education.

We have to ensure in our Professions, that Sociology and the true focus on and of "Ethics", is front in center in what is to be taught to any potential graduate from our Institutions which confer the label of professional by Degree upon individuals.

There is no room for Leaps and Jumps... but there is a determined need for a "Step by Step" procession into the future.

When I express frustration at Sanders, its not that some of his ideas are not good for long term future aspiration, its because he leads people to think... that we will "magically Leap and Jump", as a nation into a system of change as if some stroke of magic will happen, or as if he thinks he's Merlin the Magician. That is the dis-service he does unto his followers, to make them think he can pull of some Magic Trick. He has solid followers, but tell them the truth in realistic terms, and what a long term Ideal is and that it is only achieved by STEP by STEP.... and stop trying to convince them that he can do a "magic trick". He can't even do any of such Magic Tricks in Vermont !!!!! Certainly he could not do it across an Entire Nation. That's what Reality is, is to Realize what is Real....

Ideals of what a nation can become, is what this nation was founded upon, and it has been a Step by Step process. It takes "Faith in Steps" to bring Change to a nation.

Learn from Black peoples march over Centuries and Decades, never did the long history of black people give up on Freedom, even under the vile harshness of white society upon and against black people, but the march continued, and in doing so, it not only achieved the Civil Rights Act of 1964, but in doing so, it brought America to legally respect its own Constitution and legally to Respect the Dignity it had long claimed, but refused to live and support. Legally, the laws support "Equality", but now its a matter of continual steps to move it forward to support equality in the social sphere, and the economic and opportunity sphere. Every day we move closer, but its always "Step by Step".... At some stages the steps may quicken, and other times its like Stepping in Mud that slows the pace, but its still "Step by Step".

Why can't Sander's explain this simplicity to his followers, rather than trying to be the pied piper to make them think they can leap and jump and take wide skips to change something as massive and as diverse in many ways as is the Nation of America.

GO back and look at the work of LBJ, and the way he had to make Step by Step progress in how Civil Rights Acts were moved forward... First the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and THEN ... the Voting Rights Act of 1965... then look at the time line of Civil Right Acts...and the stages and steps of Social/Civic Justice of Civil Rights Moves.

We may well quicken our steps with the aid and usage of technology, but it still will not be done in Leaps and Jumps, it will be done in "Step by Step".

Radicalism of expecting leaps and jumps is an unstable means of movement, but Step by Step is surefooted movenments forward for a nation and its people.

As much as we detest the Madness of Trump trying to move us backwards and invoke processes that mirror the Confederacy's System of wealth domination and people subjugation's.... the benefit we get, at a high cost, is the exposure of the bigotry and racism, and demonstrations of ignorance and lack of education by a mass of people; which shows us, how much of a volume we have of backwards minded citizens in this nation. One can't Leap nor Jump past that. This exposure tells us the true need for greater Civics Education, as well as Sociological Educations to educated these types on what is the value and benefit of the Diversity, which has always been the integral part of American's greatness. The other benefit of Trump and Republican Vile that we are witnessing, is the level and extent of damage these types will invoke to try and recreate a madness of white dominance and control by the wealthy of the nation and its people.
Once its been exposed, it cannot hide itself in the future of where we are to work to move forward. It simply tells us, that the levels of "ignorance" that must be "educated is vast"... and the respect for the civil regard for the humanity of others, must be taught, and the social value of respect of and for diversity, must be focused upon and worked on to bring these people out of the vile of a 100 yrs of Jim Crow Groomed in Madness, that once dominated across this nation. That is done by a "Step by Step" process. It involves much, and that much includes all aspects of America Society and How it Functions.

Heck, this being a site claimed to be of and about Democrats, one can't even get the bulk of members here to talk about 'race", "racism" and the elements within it. One can't even get white members in bulk to step back and "self review" the nature and true realism's of white privilege, and certainly not to acknowledge the damages it has done over many centuries.
they run like one is being chased by a lion, when such subjects come up, or they get silent as if they are trying to hide from the sunlight of truths.
So, if its that difficult among people who claim themselves Democrats and race and racism as being something the Democratic Platform stands against, then one get only a glimpse of what it will take to get Right Wingers to deal with the subject in honest terms. This tells us, that we can only move in a "Step by Step" process, and not by Leaps and Jumps. because Racism was INTERWOVEN into EVERYTHING in America's Society for 100's of yrs, and during the 100 yrs of Jim Crow groomed white America, it was a part of the ideology of both Democrats and Republican White People, as well as Independent and certainly within the White Evangelical System, and this expanded to be a base of mentality in community, business and industrial mentality, as well as within the social nature of the generalized dissensions within our social system of life in America..

In this site, if one speaks of race and racism, and the need for white society to look at and review themselves in relation to what is white privilege, how it works and how to see it when its exhibited... people balk at it, and get anguished at the writer rather than to look at the point being discussed, and acts of deflection and denial and aims to spin and twist logic to avoid addressing the rawness of truths about what is "white privilege" and how it has damaged America, and certainly many have a groomed in cultural history that has taught them, not to review it, and in not to review, means also do all one can not to relinquish the want and embrace of white privilege. Such grooming has instilled in a great many, that any act of discarding the want and expectation of white privilege is to be considered as discrimination against them. Thus so, to embrace full circle equality, is then turned into a fiction of white people claiming they are discriminated against, because they have never seen equality as being anything but a ideals among white people with white people.

Now if all such things do not tell people... that our way forward is "Step by Step" and not Leaps and Jumps...then that will tell that Sanders need not lead his people with ideals that things will Leap and Jump.....

aikoaiko

(34,174 posts)
242. Seems to me that we do make changes in leaps and jumps
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 09:48 AM
Jun 2018

Last edited Sun Jun 3, 2018, 03:18 PM - Edit history (1)

Things like abloshing slavery, women’s suffrage, civil rights act, getting out of the Vietnam War, and even our first black came after long term pressure to change now. Change seemed impossible until there was a leap and a jump due to constant pressure and tragic incidents.

And as far as discussions of race on DU, our discussion are great. People are conversing and learning.

 

Civic Justice

(870 posts)
243. That's a good thing for people to converse and learn.
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 09:52 AM
Jun 2018

"Things like abloshing slavery, women’s suffrage, civil rights act, getting out of the Vietnam War, and even our first black came after long term pressure to change now"

key word you said is "long term pressure"... which means... it happened in "steps by steps"...not leaps... one certainly can't claim the abolition slavery was a leap... not when it took 100's of years for it to happen.

 

Civic Justice

(870 posts)
447. We won't have to, Obama's ACA was step one,
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 08:51 AM
Jun 2018

Last edited Mon Jun 4, 2018, 09:21 AM - Edit history (1)

Nothing Republican Can Do can change that, they may try to suspend as much as they can, but its only a temporary block, because THE PEOPLE now understand that National Health Care IS Needed, and they also understand that it must not be provided at an outrageous cost to Citizens, therefore this leads us to a Government Driven Program for National Health Care. .

We can not only expect to see National Health Care, we will also see a big change in what is an Insurance Company, and we will see a BIG change in what has been Hospital Networks. (Most of these Hospitals eat up vast amounts of Government Money, and when a system is designed that will diminish the Insurance Company roles, Then we will not only get a system that set cost to what medical services should truly be, what we pay into will be more than sufficient and not burdensome to the individual. PEOPLE are America's GREATEST National Security Element !!!!
We may even come to pay higher taxes with no additional expense for Medical, and the Medical system of Doctors in Hospitals charging 10's of thousands of dollars for a few hours of work, will have to change. The generations of the future will focus on the ethnics of the profession, not the "pomp and pageantry of over exaggerated popularity of title". The duty and responsibility in and of the profession of medicine has to be restored.
No doctor will ever go hungry, but the professions is not about who can become the most wealthy, it is one about who can dedicated themselves to do the good they proclaimed their aims and oath states.

We are no to be treated like disposable beings, and Medicine was designed to care for people, not as a "get rich quick" and deny services if it does not contribute to getting richer.

We are making the Steps and the pace may well quicken, but for stability it will be step by step,even it at times those steps are at a running pace, and for some things it may be slowly measured steps, but always steps forward.

It won't be 2050 before we make these changes, it will come much sooner and when the wave of progress in many things get past this gridlock on now, we will flourish greatly, as technology is and will expand to areas it has long been delayed.

Captain Stern

(2,201 posts)
236. That's more than a little misleading.
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 09:17 AM
Jun 2018

What they're not mentioning is that 'the theater' was showing 'Avengers: Infinity War'.

Seems a little misleading to me.

R B Garr

(16,955 posts)
264. Wow! I read upthread that this was circumstantial and
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 10:48 AM
Jun 2018

not about Bernie. Fake. Thanks for the confirmation.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
274. Bringing up Bernie sure seems to cause a lot of discord here - does that mean Bernie is "divisive"
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 11:03 AM
Jun 2018

and shouldn't be discussed on DU?

Asking for a friend.

Captain Stern

(2,201 posts)
306. Well, Bernie himself isn't being divisive here.
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 12:15 PM
Jun 2018

However, discussing Bernie does seem to expose some divides here, so it's probably best that Bernie never, ever, be discussed here at all. After all, how can we all be on the same side, when we disagree about something, or even if we aren't all on the same page about exactly what it is that we're discussing? No...that just won't do. I'm afraid that you'll have to tell your friend that Bernie is divisive.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
348. Nicely done! Well played, you!
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 03:11 PM
Jun 2018

Clearly, it went over the heads of some. And to that point, I was going to also add "how sad", but... now that I think about it, in a way, the fact that some don't get it (or that some choose to pretend they don't get it) helps to make your post even BETTER and more illustrative.

KPN

(15,646 posts)
351. Yes there were. Thanks for posting.
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 03:26 PM
Jun 2018

Bernie is growing the economic justice message in leaps and bounds, including its relationship to social and civil justice.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
336. So, if I wanted to find a list of his major legislative accomplishments, where would I look?
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 02:07 PM
Jun 2018

Is there like a website or something? Most politicians have a "yay-me" page to brag about their legislative accomplishments (even if it's modest and discreet) but I'll be darned if I can find anything about his major legislative accomplishments.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
332. not a real strong
Sun Jun 3, 2018, 01:57 PM
Jun 2018

candidate for POTUS, by any measure. Younger people needed to lead our Party. Sen. Sanders has always said, he does not want to be a Democrat. He only needed our political machinery. Sen. Sanders is an also-ran, that's it.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
445. I am sure
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 08:26 AM
Jun 2018

for only one thing. HRC lost for a myriad of reasons, voter suppression, outside foreign interference in OUR NATIONAL election being the most glaring and obvious.

I wish he had run as an Independent, a lot of votes along with those of other 3rd Party candidates would have gone into our/HRC's win column. We probably would have an experienced competent POTUS now instead of this laughing stock BS artist ruining ameriKKKa along with the GOP, grand old party my ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!GORP is more like it. I know, I know, The primaries are dead and gone yet the repercussions are evident, I won't even engage nor comment on our mistakes in allowing minor leaders of a very minor faction in our Party to use our machinery and Party.

 

shanny

(6,709 posts)
451. minor leaders of a very minor faction
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 09:43 AM
Jun 2018

who got 45% of Democratic primary votes?

btw, this is nonsensical, "I wish he had run as an Independent, a lot of votes along with those of other 3rd Party candidates would have gone into our/HRC's win column."

If Bernie had run as an Independent, HRC would have gotten a lot more votes?

Gothmog

(145,359 posts)
576. Then Clinton could have taken the kid gloves off
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 04:10 PM
Jun 2018

There is a ton of oppo on sanders. The Clinton campaign treated sanders with kid gloves. If sanders had run as third party, the oppo would have destroyed him

 

shanny

(6,709 posts)
596. asserting something that didn't happen is worthless
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 11:45 PM
Jun 2018

Sanders could have taken off the kid gloves as well. Polls showed Bernie doing better in the general than Clinton.

The effect of either of those things can't be measured because neither happened. So what is the point in arguing about it now? OTOH, something we can extrapolate from past experience is what would have happened if Bernie ran in the general as an independent...especially at a time when more people self-identify as Independents than either Democrats or Republicans.

Bernie did the responsible thing by not running as a third party candidate, something that is conveniently and universally overlooked by far too many, specifically and ironically those who still drag out Ralph Nader* as the super villain who gave us dimson bush.



and that was a load of hooey too

Gothmog

(145,359 posts)
605. Sanders was a very weak general election candidate who would be destroyed
Wed Jun 6, 2018, 02:17 PM
Jun 2018

The press knew that sanders would never be the nominee and so never vetted or paid attention to sanders. I saw some of the Oppo on him and sanders would have easily been destroyed if he ran as a third party candidate. Sanders attacked Clinton freely but Clinton treated sanders with kid gloves because sanders supporters went nuts if anyone was not nice to sanders. I personally believe that the candidates should have used the oppo on sanders early on.

Response to Donkees (Original post)

Response to SammyWinstonJack (Reply #443)

Response to Gothmog (Reply #490)

Gothmog

(145,359 posts)
509. BERNIE SANDERS VOTERS HELPED TRUMP WIN AND HERE'S PROOF
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 06:11 PM
Jun 2018

Here you are http://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-trump-2016-election-654320

Bernie Sanders supporters switched their allegiance to Donald Trump in large enough numbers last November to sway the election for the real estate billionaire, according to an analysis of voter data released Tuesday by the blog Political Wire. Since Trump’s shock victory over Hillary Clinton, much discussion has focused on the degree to which passionate Sanders supporters’ refusal to embrace Clinton led to the Republican winding up in the White House.

Here is some more https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/24/16194086/bernie-trump-voters-study

About 12 percent of Bernie Sanders supporters from the Democratic primary crossed party lines and voted for Donald Trump in the general election, a new analysis says.

In several key states — Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan — the number of Sanders to Trump defectors were greater than Trump’s margin of victory, according to new numbers released Wednesday by UMass professor Brian Schaffner.


Response to Gothmog (Reply #509)

Gothmog

(145,359 posts)
520. GOP voter suppression, Russia, Stein, Sanders, Comey and others bear a great deal of the blame
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 08:26 PM
Jun 2018

The studies cited break down some of the information that you are looking for. Again, sanders bears a great deal of responsibility for trump. There are a large number of true democrats who will not forget this.

Sanders is not going to run in 2020 in my opinion. Sanders will have to release several years of tax returns in a couple of blue states with ballot access laws to get onto the ballot. These laws will also apply is sanders tries to run as a third party. If the Democrats take the House, the first thing that they will do is release trump's tax returns which will mean that it is less likely that trump will sue to invalidate these ballot access law. I doubt that sanders will ever release all of his tax returns.

Response to Gothmog (Reply #520)

Gothmog

(145,359 posts)
531. LOL-Hillary is not going to run again
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 10:09 PM
Jun 2018

Sanders is still pretending thst he will run in 2020. If sanders runs again, he sill be blamed by real democrats for trump being elected. Feeble attrmpts to deflect will not help sanders with real democrats

Response to Gothmog (Reply #531)

Gothmog

(145,359 posts)
536. Who cares?
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 01:01 AM
Jun 2018

Whataboutism does not work in the real world. Attempts to deflect blame are amusing. I posted two studies that show that sanders is the reason why trump is POTUS. Ignoring these facts will not make them go away nor will pointing fingers at other causes.

I am focusing on issues that can be addressed in the future

1. Voter suppression. GOP voter suppression cost Clinton Wisconsin https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/10/voter-suppression-wisconsin-election-2016/

Neil Albrecht, Milwaukee’s election director, believes that the voter ID law and other changes passed by the Republican Legislature contributed significantly to lower turnout. Albrecht is 55 but seems younger, with bookish tortoise-frame glasses and salt-and-pepper stubble. (“I looked 12 until I became an election administrator,” he joked.) At his office in City Hall with views of the Milwaukee River, Albrecht showed me a color-coded map of the city’s districts, pointing out the ones where turnout had declined the most, including Anthony’s. Next to his desk was a poster that listed “Acceptable Forms of Photo ID.”

“I would estimate that 25 to 35 percent of the 41,000 decrease in voters, or somewhere between 10,000 and 15,000 voters, likely did not vote due to the photo ID requirement,” he said later. “It is very probable that between the photo ID law and the changes to voter registration, enough people were prevented from voting to have changed the outcome of the presidential election in Wisconsin.”

A post-election study by Priorities USA, a Democratic super-PAC that supported Clinton, found that in 2016, turnout decreased by 1.7 percent in the three states that adopted stricter voter ID laws but increased by 1.3 percent in states where ID laws did not change. Wisconsin’s turnout dropped 3.3 percent. If Wisconsin had seen the same turnout increase as states whose laws stayed the same, “we estimate that over 200,000 more voters would have voted in Wisconsin in 2016,” the study said. These “lost voters”—those who voted in 2012 and 2014 but not 2016—”skewed more African American and more Democrat” than the overall voting population. Some academics criticized the study’s methodology, but its conclusions were consistent with a report from the Government Accountability Office, which found that strict voter ID laws in Kansas and Tennessee had decreased turnout by roughly 2 to 3 percent, with the largest drops among black, young, and new voters.

I was part of the Clinton Victory Counsel program and nearly went to Wisconsin but ended up running the statewide voter protection hotline in Texas and the poll watcher program in Harris County. Harris County turned blue and one of the poll watchers who I trained in 2012 was elected to the office in charge of voter registration. This cycle we focus on getting rid on the teabagger who runs elections.

BTW, the courts are still considering the Wisconsin voter id law http://electionlawblog.org/?p=99266 In Texas we have largely gutted the voter id law but have to fight to make sure that voters get to vote.

2. Russia. I will let Mueller handle this but there is ample evidence that russia helped elect trump. http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/26/media/facebook-russia-ads/index.html

Senate Intelligence Committee chair Richard Burr, a Republican, told reporters Tuesday that the use of Facebook and other social media platforms by Russian-linked accounts appears to be about creating chaos on both ends of the political spectrum, not necessarily collusion between the Trump camp and Russian officials.

"Listen, I've said I don't think this is about collusion. Facebook is a company that most advertisers rely on Facebook's information to determine what the target is," Burr told reporters. "I think clearly there was an effort to bring some chaos to groups on the right and the left, so there's nothing that, at least preliminary, would lean toward one candidate versus the other. I think there was equal money sent trying to create some type of chaos on both sides of the political or ideological spectrum. We'll find more as we go in."

I note that the idiots on JPR fell for a ton of russian fake news. There were a ton of thread on pizzagate on JPR for a while. Sanders supporters were targeted by Russia and judging from the studies posted above with great effect


Again, sanders supporters were easily fooled by russian fake news and the studies cited above show this cost the election


3. Comey. Nate Silver has done some good work that shows that Comey cost Clinton the election https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-comey-letter-probably-cost-clinton-the-election/

Hillary Clinton would probably be president if FBI Director James Comey had not sent a letter to Congress on Oct. 28. The letter, which said the FBI had “learned of the existence of emails that appear to be pertinent to the investigation” into the private email server that Clinton used as secretary of state, upended the news cycle and soon halved Clinton’s lead in the polls, imperiling her position in the Electoral College.


4. Sanders and Stein voters. The studies cited above show that sanders cost the election. BTW, i was a delegate to the national convention. Sanders was not working hard for Clinton and in fact refused to try to stop his delegates from dong such things as booing Congressman John Lewis. These disruptions hurt the unity that one normally gets from a convention. For example, in 2008, Clinton conceded before the Texas state convention. In 2016 sanders waited until just before the convention and cause a ton of disruption. I was at the convention and sanders refusal to do his best to help Clinton was a factor.

I will continue working in the real world to deal with as many issues as possible. We had a full war room for both the primary and the primary run off for voter protection issues.

I am glad that ballot access laws should keep sanders from running again.

Response to Gothmog (Reply #536)

Gothmog

(145,359 posts)
538. I answered your question
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 01:18 AM
Jun 2018

Read the material posted or have someone read and explain them to you

I know that bernie supporters are not happy about being blamed for Trump but that is tough.

Response to Gothmog (Reply #538)

betsuni

(25,550 posts)
541. You asked about Bernie, not Hillary.
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 02:31 AM
Jun 2018

If you're really so interested, Hillary wrote a whole big book about what she could have done differently and what was out of her hands.

Response to betsuni (Reply #541)

Gothmog

(145,359 posts)
546. Clinton is not going to run again and so the attempt by sanders supporter to deflect amuse me
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 10:39 AM
Jun 2018

sanders supporters were targeted by Russian fake news with great effect and sanders voters were the reason why trump is POTUS. I go to the JPR site to see what Putin is pushing this week and the number of admitted russian trolls on that site is amazing. Russia was very successful in pushing fake news and attacks judging by the stories that were on the greatest page of that site. There were six or more pizzagate stories on the greatest page at one point and it was amusing to see the admins on that junk site ban pizzagate stories.

Russia is still targeting sanders supporters. JPR is still pushing putin's latest lines even now. Putin knows that persons who post on sites like JPR are evidently gullible and will buy any Russian fake news stories.

Russia targeted the US election in 2016 and I fear that Russia will do so again


Response to Gothmog (Reply #546)

Gothmog

(145,359 posts)
573. And yet sanders voters played a large role in the election of trump
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 02:53 PM
Jun 2018

Last edited Tue Jun 5, 2018, 06:12 PM - Edit history (1)

I was at the National Convention and I was a Hillraiser and a member of both the Clinton attorney finance committee and the Victory Counsel program. I saw the Clinton campaign close up including being a maxed out donor and a sponsor for a couple of high dollar campaign events (you have to give the secrete service all of your details when you are a sponsor). I honestly believe that the forces that cause Clinton to lose were outside her control. My only real complaint was that she treated sanders with kid gloves and should have use the oppo research on him. Sanders is a deeply flawed candidate and should have not have been treated with kid gloves.

I live in the real world which is why I rejected sanders (his proposals all relied on a magical voter revolution and made no sense if you lived in the real world). I never took sanders seriously because I do not believe in magic or magical voter revolutions. All of sanders proposals were based on a magical voter revolution where millions or billions or trillions (sanders was not clear on this) would rise up and force the GOP to be reasonable. No one who lived in the real world would be stupid enough to believe in magical voter revolutions. None of sanders proposals could be adopted in the real world with the aid of magic Without that magical voter revolution, even Sanders admitted that his platform could not be adopted https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/robert-schlesinger/articles/2016-04-15/bernie-sanders-bad-delegate-math-and-fantasy-revolution

Thus more broadly, his attempt to delegitimize a swath of voters lays bare a fundamental inconsistency of the Sanders campaign: One of his basic answers about how he's going to accomplish his aims – whether winning the Democratic nod, winning the general election or enacting his agenda – is the forthcoming revolution. His super-ambitious agenda will prove to be achievable substance rather than unicorns-and-rainbows fantasy, he said Thursday night, "when millions of people stand up, fight back and create a government that works for all of us, not just the 1 percent. That is what the political revolution is about. That is what this campaign is about."

Magical thinking does not work in the real world. Sanders has failed to adopt any meaningful legislation in the real world including in his own state. I am not the only one to note that Sanders would not be able to get his proposals adopted in the real world. https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/2/21/1483791/-Imagine-Bernie-Sanders-wins-the-White-House-Then-what

If you look at the forces that were aligned against Clinton at the end, she had no chance no matter what she did. Again, Russia invested a ton of resources in feeding fake news to sanders supporters who believed this crap. I am serious, go to JPR and see the russian trolls at work. JPR had six or more threads at one point on pizzagate. There are still jpr idiots who are pushing crap about Seth Rich and that Hillary Clinton is really too ill to serve. Heck a number of the idiots who post on JPR are named plaintiffs in the rather ignorant DNC fraud lawsuit. I am sadden that so many JPR types and sanders supporters believed the Russian fake news.

I saw behavior by the sanders campaign at the national convention that sickened me. Many of the sanders delegates were there to help elect trump and did their best. My youngest child was my guest at the National Convention and I watched sanders supporters yell obscenities at her and call her the c-word because she would not try to get me to change my vote. A person who was a senior paid staffer in the sanders campaign came to work for one of the local candidates where she went around telling voters to vote for stein while block walking.

I saw the attacks by Sanders supporters on John Lewis and other African American leaders at the National Convention. One sanders delegate told me that they blamed African Americans for sanders loss and so were going to take it out on these groups at the national convention. I am Jewish and we had one sanders supporter come to one of the Jewish caucuses to tell us that we were bad Jews for not supporting sanders. The idiot was wearing a large cross on the outside of his shirt.

I was teaching a class on poll watching and voter protection when Comey pulled his stunt. My associate was taking the class and told me about it after we finished filming. I was shocked and it is clear that this incident played a major role. Nate Silver and others have looked at this and they are clear that this stunt helped get trump elected. Again, I like living in the real world where facts matter.

Again, I am sad that you want to deflect and deny the role that sanders played in electing trump. I actually work on political issues in the real world and I saw what happened. Between Comey, Russia, voter suppression, stein (who is really a russian tool) and sanders, there was no way that Hillary Clinton had a chance and yet she still won the popular vote by 3 million.

Go ahead and deny the facts as to how trump got elected. I am working to turn Texas blue in the real world. We already gutted the Texas voter id law though litigation. The GOP know that Texas will turn blue and are trying to delay this with voter suppression and other crap.

The fact that you want to ignore the facts here amuses me. Again, I live in the real world which is why I never took sanders seriously. I am also not going to forgive or forget about sanders roll in trump being elected. BTW, I had to deal with Our Revolution idiots who are so very racist that they they attack an Asian candidate because he had a funny first name. The head of thie local Our Revolution group told voters that this candidate "was not one of us" and "we do not want one of them" on the ballot. Luckily the candidates endorsed by Our Revolution lost badly. I am helping the Asian candidate who attacked by the Our Revolution idiots by taking him to meetings of the local Democratic lawyers association and having him be on a panel at a CLE event later this month. It was fun watching a Democratic candidate for Congress mingle in a room of Democratic lawyers.

The real world is a nice place. I will continue to work in it. You can ignore the real world if you want.

Response to Gothmog (Reply #573)

Gothmog

(145,359 posts)
589. LOL-I am amused that you are unable to deal with facts and reality
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 08:48 PM
Jun 2018

Are you posting on JPR? You will like that site. Facts and reality do not matter on the JPR site and sanders can do no wrong according to the posters on that site. For posters who cannot deal with the real world, it is a good place where one can ignore facts and the real world. You are evidently allergic to facts and the real world which means that you will enjoy a place where fake news and Russian talking points are the norm.

I am so very amused that you are unable to deal with the facts that show that sanders and sanders supporters were responsible for trump's victory. This level of denial does not surprise me in that I have seen it on JPR. ,Since you do not want to deal with facts or the real world, please visit JPR. People who can not deal with facts will fit in on that site. In addition, the Russian trolls and Putin fake news will no doubt re-enforce your incorrect views about sanders

In lieu of hiding on JPR, I would encourage you to get out into real world. Attend some county party meetings or work on a race for a real democrat. Illinois may have some interesting races. Your current governor needs to go. Go attend a state convention. State conventions are fun and you will meet people who live in the real world of politics. Go block walk for a candidate or phone bank. Talk to some real people in the real world. I will be at the state convention in a couple of weeks. We have an idiot bernie supporter running for state party chair and I need to vote against that idiot. In addition, we will be working on statewide voter protection plans. In 2016 we had a statewide hot line and coordination between the Clinton campaign and the state and county parties. I trained and we had 200+ poll watchers out in 2016 and kept the GOP from trying to enforce the old voter id law that was modified in litigation. Despite having a teabagger run the Harris County elections, Harris County turned blue. The poor teabagger who ran Harris county elections got grief for Harris County turning blue.



This cycle will be better in that a lady who I trained as a poll watcher in 2012 was elected in 2016 to the office that controls voter registration (Texas used to have a poll tax and so the tax office controls voter registration). This will one of the first cycles where we are not suing to get voter registration forms in other than one language (Harris County has ballots in six different language).

The real world is a nice place for those of us who live in the real world. In my case, I and other real democrats are working to turn Texas blue. We are going to do this by ignoring the idiots endorsed by sanders and Our Revolution and work to elect real democrats. I spent the Texas primary day and the primary run off day in the war room answering questions. It is always nice being around real democrats. Working in the real world is rewarding and I urge yo to consider getting out into the real world.

If you do not want to go out into the real world, then go visit JPR and enjoy a safe space where facts and reality can be ignored and sanders can do no wrong. I will continue working in the real world and Texas will turn blue

Response to Gothmog (Reply #589)

Gothmog

(145,359 posts)
592. Hsve fun with the idiots on jPR
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 09:58 PM
Jun 2018

Last edited Wed Jun 6, 2018, 02:01 PM - Edit history (1)

You will have fun and fit in over there

The are fun races in the resl world to work on. Have fun hiding from the real woeld

Eliot Rosewater

(31,112 posts)
559. It cant be clearer who contributed to her loss. Yet, many so called progressives wont hear it.
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 12:17 PM
Jun 2018

They dont give a fuck.

They dont care that they are not ALLOWED to see tax returns.

Not hearing it.

Will it result in the NAZIS continued power? Very possibly.

Gothmog

(145,359 posts)
563. Russia fed lies and fake news to sanders supporters
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 12:34 PM
Jun 2018

Many sanders supporters believed these lies and voted either for trump or stein. The studies cited in this thread show that these sanders voters are the reason why trump is POTUS.

Russian is still feeding lies and fake news to sanders supporters on sites like JPR. The JPR site is full of Russian trolls. If you want to know what Russia and Putin are pushing, go check out that website. The idiots who post on JPR are happy to believe in this fake news

Eliot Rosewater

(31,112 posts)
565. I mentioned somewhere that I frequent a youtube chat for a progressive talker
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 12:38 PM
Jun 2018

and there is one, maybe two KGB agents who post there, very cleverly.

Always saying negative shit about HRC and Pelosi, etc., and always half ass supporting the alt left nonsense.

Even though this is obvious, it is ME that is warned routinely NOT to allege there are KGB agents about.

THINK about that for a minute.

Gothmog

(145,359 posts)
570. Russia is very skilled at feeding fake news to US voters
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 01:55 PM
Jun 2018

Heck, the JPR site is full of Russian fake news.

Response to Lil Missy (Reply #528)

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
466. Well worth his time. About twenty percent of them will vote for him in the primary.
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 11:38 AM
Jun 2018

Solid stop for the Sanders campaign.

George II

(67,782 posts)
511. Oh, Sanders' "arrest story". Wow! He was held in a gymnasium with dozens of others....
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 06:14 PM
Jun 2018

....for an hour or two, fined $25, and told to be on his way. And that was almost 60 years ago.

I'm more interested in THIS arrest story, which took place just about the same time (the 1960s):



 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
518. And they wonder why people roll their eyes at him
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 08:16 PM
Jun 2018

"Bernie was arrested in 1963!"

"And then he moved to Vermont a couple of years later"

"Why are you bringing up something he did in the 1960s?"

I can't believe that arrest is even a major talking point. It's nice that he did the protest, but only people who really don't understand the movement would think that what Bernie did was all that unusual among liberal white students during that time.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
493. Why didn't he just book a bigger venue then?
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 02:49 PM
Jun 2018

And am I the only one with a nagging fear that this whole thing is about *HIM* and not *US*? Because Jane's comments over the weekends were shall I say, unfortunate and ill-chosen...

NastyRiffraff

(12,448 posts)
500. ..and then he handed out loaves and fishes to the crowd
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 05:19 PM
Jun 2018

Disclaimer: I am NOT DENYING that Sanders is the equivalent of the Second Coming. At all. Thank you.

However, I don't believe in the original Second Coming,so there's that!

Gothmog

(145,359 posts)
590. You cannot have a second coming until you have the first
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 08:55 PM
Jun 2018

Jews are still waiting for the first coming which we expect will the only coming

 

Raysawesome34

(19 posts)
593. This is awesome
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 10:06 PM
Jun 2018

Can't wait to vote for him in 2020. Seems to be a lot of hate in this forum.
And over one tweet. Almost 600 responses. Kinda seems like a sickness of the soul.

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