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PCIntern

(25,556 posts)
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 06:35 AM Jun 2018

This is a National Psychosis akin to Nazi Germany's

There are going to be no horrors avoided, no depths unplumbed until we somehow rid ourselves of this malignancy.

The problem then lies in the aftermath: has this become the New Normal, now and forever with respect to our lifetimes? Is he just the first of the degenerate emperors?

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This is a National Psychosis akin to Nazi Germany's (Original Post) PCIntern Jun 2018 OP
No. Hortensis Jun 2018 #1
So far they are doing just fine my friend. PCIntern Jun 2018 #2
No, they're not. We're in a huge battle for power right now. Hortensis Jun 2018 #3
I hope you're correct. PCIntern Jun 2018 #4
Me too. I would hate to spend my remaining years Hortensis Jun 2018 #5
Republican approval of Trump is at 87%; they are embracing right wing extremism muriel_volestrangler Jun 2018 #12
That's how they respond to polls, yes. Will they all Hortensis Jun 2018 #13
They approve of that president, so yes, they will go and vote for the Republicans who rip muriel_volestrangler Jun 2018 #18
It's waaaaaaay worse than that. TimeSnowDemos Jun 2018 #6
SPOT ON Cosmocat Jun 2018 #8
Disappointing, but... TimeSnowDemos Jun 2018 #10
Afraid I agree. However, Hortensis Jun 2018 #14
The thing is... TimeSnowDemos Jun 2018 #16
Yes. But the hurt's starting to come home, the Hortensis Jun 2018 #17
Sadly, again... TimeSnowDemos Jun 2018 #19
Didn't you just? Do you imagine you are 1 in 200,000,000 Hortensis Jun 2018 #20
As long as big money drives politics, the downward spiral will continue. VOX Jun 2018 #7
Not just the presidency. Cosmocat Jun 2018 #9
Sadly true. VOX Jun 2018 #11
Aside from being a little more overt in his bigotry and promoting tariffs... Garrett78 Jun 2018 #15

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
1. No.
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 06:37 AM
Jun 2018

We're seeing an awakening and reaction in the special elections and primaries. Republicans may not be embracing Democrats, but we are seeing a wide pattern of rejecting right-wing extremism.

I wish we could be sure the nation will transfer congressional power to the Democrats on November 6, but this election we have an uphill battle for the senate. We may have to live with uncertainty longer, but the closer they come to achieving their goals the more they have expose them.

Of course, we could lose our democracy and have to live with a phony, business-run fascistic version until new generations regain it. But our traditions are all for democracy. the best times we remember under the systems we inherited and we outnumber the people trying to corrupt our government into serving them, instead of us, something like 100,000 to 1. So how likely is it that they'll prevail over us?

PCIntern

(25,556 posts)
2. So far they are doing just fine my friend.
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 06:48 AM
Jun 2018

They rolled over for him in a way they never did for any other President. We shall see.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
3. No, they're not. We're in a huge battle for power right now.
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 06:50 AM
Jun 2018

They've lost a lot of ground as they and their goals are becoming increasingly exposed to the electorate.

They are aware they may lose the house, but they will do everything possible to hold the senate so that they can continue their takeover of the supreme and appellate courts through the rest of Trump's term.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
5. Me too. I would hate to spend my remaining years
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 06:55 AM
Jun 2018

living through a struggle for, or to regain, the nation we inherited.

There are upsides to being horribly spoiled, though. Our people would take very poorly to the kind of lives the right-wing extremists among the very wealthy imagine are appropriate for 300 million whiny, worthless, gimme-gimme losers.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,321 posts)
12. Republican approval of Trump is at 87%; they are embracing right wing extremism
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 03:22 PM
Jun 2018

See https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210692705

That level of approval at the 500 day mark in their own party is 2nd only to GW Bush, and he had the boost of 9/11 and the "rally behind the president" idea. Republican supporters really are up to their eyes in extremism, and happy about it.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
13. That's how they respond to polls, yes. Will they all
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 03:30 PM
Jun 2018

actually go vote to rip babies out of their mothers' arms and put them in holding camps? For a president who says he should be able to shoot people on the street and be beyond the law?

We need some to stay home, not that many.

And we need some of the 40% of all registered voters who didn't vote in 2016 to regret that. By nature, a majority of those are not trumpster types. We should get a majority of any who turn out, including younger generations who are notably more diverse than older generations.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,321 posts)
18. They approve of that president, so yes, they will go and vote for the Republicans who rip
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 04:02 PM
Jun 2018

babies from their mothers' arms. That's the point. These are people who argue that the mothers are criminal, and they're happy with their children being taken away. I've seen that argument online.

 

TimeSnowDemos

(476 posts)
6. It's waaaaaaay worse than that.
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 07:05 AM
Jun 2018

Trump is a symptom, and the main response scumbaga like Trump will have to Trump is something like:

"America is an easy country to manipulate. It's media is garbage and easy to control/ignore. It's partisans are so entrenched that - as long as you have them - you can be as corrupt as you like. And it's politics and justice system? Well, the only issues there are making them more partisan. A few more pro-Trump judges and FBI leaders and America is ready to be a full blown banana republic."

Thats the lesson of Trump: America is unable to stop criminal attacks on its government and justice system.

Because - let's be frank - if someone like Marco Rubio was doing all of this, without the insane tweets, etc., he'd be pretty popular. Like Reagan, any right wing populist can succeed by playing to Americ's ego and ignorance and laziness.

Cosmocat

(14,566 posts)
8. SPOT ON
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 08:43 AM
Jun 2018

My exact words, 45 is a symptom, not the cause. And you're absolutely correct that the only reason there's any debate with this is because 45 is this so out now fascist. But what is most disappointing in that, is how much the country has rolled over for it.

 

TimeSnowDemos

(476 posts)
10. Disappointing, but...
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 09:01 AM
Jun 2018

Not surprising.

The US has a LONG history of just accepting lousy lawless behavior. It's often caused by the fear that acknowledging the truth will somehow be more damaging than covering it up.

And of Americans wilfully manipulating each other to hurt the majority, for the benefit of a handful.

And of course, the US media and education system have done great, lasting, damage to Americans ability to even understand what they're supporting.

It's only going to get much worse.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
14. Afraid I agree. However,
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 03:40 PM
Jun 2018

except for the more rabid social conservatives, Americans do not want what the white nationalist billionaires who are driving the right want. The more of their goals those achieve, the more they risk the right turning on them for real and making it stick this time. And with Rubio or Pence, they would achieve more.

Don't forget, both the Tea Party and Trump were abortive. dysfunctional rebellions by Republican voters against the Republican party leadership. Their enemies gained control and used them for further transfer of power and wealth, but they were rebellions. And things are getting worse and will only get worse still if they keep control of congress.

 

TimeSnowDemos

(476 posts)
16. The thing is...
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 03:47 PM
Jun 2018

Americans won't be sold these things as white nationalism, etc. any more than decimating the social safety net is sold as racist or classist

Americans will, as always, be sold whatever idea is being pushed by fear, by lies, etc.

And Americans ONLY have a history of falling for propaganda. They have no history of collectively seeing through attempts to manipulate them. At least no reliable history...

Imagine you're a Koch brother, and you see what Trump has gotten away with... Your goal isn't another Trump, but someone far worse: a handsome, compassionate conservative, willing to roll over whoever he wants, knowing the courts, law enforcement and media are largely unable to stop them

Think the 'Muslim Ban'. Imagine if he hadn't floated that in the campaign, and had it written properly, and if he had a normal personality and relationship with the press. Who would've noticed? The ACLU maybe... But would there have been this massive outrage? Nope. Most Americans wouldn't even notice.

And on and on.

It's never about ideology but about making some people a lot of money, and in that context Trump represents a dark future for the US.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
17. Yes. But the hurt's starting to come home, the
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 03:56 PM
Jun 2018

anxiety the handlers have been manipulating their voters so effectively with has grown for a decade, to be relieved briefly by delusions that Trump will make it all okay. What happens when it continues to get worse for them instead of better?

If the Democrats don't get control of congress this fall, we'll find out.

 

TimeSnowDemos

(476 posts)
19. Sadly, again...
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 04:11 PM
Jun 2018

Americans have long ago voted against their own self-interest, when it suits someone with enough money.

Nothing about America screams: this place has laws and policies which are designed to help the majority.

The opposite is true.

When, for example, have you heard anyone from either party suggest that cutting military spending is a great idea? It just doesn't happen, no matter how much money is wasted.

Etc.

It's almost impossible to be cynical enough about Americans capacity for self-destructive behavior.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
20. Didn't you just? Do you imagine you are 1 in 200,000,000
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 04:45 PM
Jun 2018

registered voters? You may turn out to be horribly right.

But I can tell you one thing for sure. Any statement that starts out accusing "Americans" except ourselves of being less than ourselves is always extremely wrong and its premise ludicrously flawed. Both in its arrogance and in its inevitable clueless generality. "Americans" won't agree gravity has anything at all to do with the fact that they can't fly, but by far most actually do.

There are scary-bad signs and good signs. We'll see which prevail.

VOX

(22,976 posts)
7. As long as big money drives politics, the downward spiral will continue.
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 07:18 AM
Jun 2018

Because the mess we’re in now can be directly attributed to the billions of dollars that the Kochs, the Mercers, et al, have laid out for extreme right-wing candidates and initiatives.

The presidency is pretty much for sale these days.

Cosmocat

(14,566 posts)
9. Not just the presidency.
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 08:44 AM
Jun 2018

See to me, Pat Pennsylvania. See Wisconsin, Walker. See what has happened in North Carolina. They wield the big stick ($$$$) not just at the White House, but also Congress, governorships, state legislatures.

VOX

(22,976 posts)
11. Sadly true.
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 02:39 PM
Jun 2018

At last count there were some 33 states with Republican leadership top-to-bottom. (I may be off by one or two).

They are a fundraising juggernaut.

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
15. Aside from being a little more overt in his bigotry and promoting tariffs...
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 03:44 PM
Jun 2018

...Trump is following standard operating procedure for Republicans.

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