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sunonmars

(8,656 posts)
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 09:52 AM Jun 2018

DOJ Website : President cannot pardon himself : Aug. 5, 1974 DOJ opinion




"Under the fundamental rule that no one may be a judge in his own case, the President cannot pardon himself."
Aug. 5, 1974 DOJ opinion, 4 days before Richard Nixon resigned.
It's right there on the DOJ website:
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DOJ Website : President cannot pardon himself : Aug. 5, 1974 DOJ opinion (Original Post) sunonmars Jun 2018 OP
Deepstate keeping our beloved president from doing his job Roland99 Jun 2018 #1
Send it to Don the lying Con malaise Jun 2018 #2
as i stated elsewhere NewJeffCT Jun 2018 #3
Is it this one? Hortensis Jun 2018 #7
yes NewJeffCT Jun 2018 #9
Good heavens. :) Thanks again. Hortensis Jun 2018 #11
Asha is whip smart, she needs to get into politics. Exotica Jun 2018 #17
No, Trump can't pardon himself. The Constitution tells us so. Gothmog Jun 2018 #4
This was thrown out Scarsdale Jun 2018 #5
First up ... jayschool2013 Jun 2018 #6
If the president could pardon himself, there would be no checks and balances Sophia4 Jun 2018 #8
No, the President can't pardon himself. But... Stonepounder Jun 2018 #10
Through the Looking glass and down the rabbit hole we go. SammyWinstonJack Jun 2018 #14
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2018 #12
Wouldn't he have to be found guilty of a crime first? JohnnyRingo Jun 2018 #13
No. A President Can Pardon Even Before an Indictment. clementine613 Jun 2018 #18
If the legal minds that wrote the applicable law felt the President should be able to pardon himself BobTheSubgenius Jun 2018 #15
K&R Scurrilous Jun 2018 #16

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
3. as i stated elsewhere
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 10:06 AM
Jun 2018

Asha Rangappaa, lawyer, former FBI agent and now Yale professor on National Security Law agrees with the above - she posted on Twitter last night that the pardon is one of the few things left over from the British monarchy, and that it assumes both a grantor (the president) and a grantee (the person getting pardoned).

I'd post the tweet, but Twitter is blocked at work.

Even with a Republican SCOTUS, I would imagine Trump would lose in the courts.

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
9. yes
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 11:36 AM
Jun 2018

she's funny and smart. She also does improv comedy on top of her guest appearances on TV, lecturing at Yale and being a mom.

Gothmog

(145,321 posts)
4. No, Trump can't pardon himself. The Constitution tells us so.
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 10:15 AM
Jun 2018

From Prof. Tribe and others https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/no-trump-cant-pardon-himself-the-constitution-tells-us-so/2017/07/21/f3445d74-6e49-11e7-b9e2-2056e768a7e5_story.html?utm_term=.a066d8b411f4

Can a president pardon himself? Four days before Richard Nixon resigned, his own Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel opined no, citing “the fundamental rule that no one may be a judge in his own case.” We agree.

The Justice Department was right that guidance could be found in the enduring principles that no one can be both the judge and the defendant in the same matter, and that no one is above the law.

The Constitution specifically bars the president from using the pardon power to prevent his own impeachment and removal. It adds that any official removed through impeachment remains fully subject to criminal prosecution. That provision would make no sense if the president could pardon himself.

The pardon provision of the Constitution is there to enable the president to act essentially in the role of a judge of another person’s criminal case, and to intervene on behalf of the defendant when the president determines that would be equitable. For example, the president might believe the courts made the wrong decision about someone’s guilt or about sentencing; President Barack Obama felt this way about excessive sentences for low-level drug offenses. Or the president might be impressed by the defendant’s subsequent conduct and, using powers far exceeding those of a parole board, might issue a pardon or commutation of sentence.....

President Trump thinks he can do a lot of things just because he is president. He says that the president can act as if he has no conflicts of interest. He says that he can fire the FBI director for any reason he wants (and he admitted to the most outrageous of reasons in interviews and in discussion with the Russian ambassador). In one sense, Trump is right — he can do all of these things, although there will be legal repercussions if he does. Using official powers for corrupt purposes — such as impeding or obstructing an investigation — can constitute a crime.

But there is one thing we know that Trump cannot do — without being a first in all of human history. He cannot pardon himself.

Scarsdale

(9,426 posts)
5. This was thrown out
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 10:36 AM
Jun 2018

there by Ghoulianni, to test the waters. See how much support tRump can expect if he tries doing this. Well, I think this is the answer FORGET IT.

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
8. If the president could pardon himself, there would be no checks and balances
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 11:33 AM
Jun 2018

because he would be unchecked and balanced by no one.

The fundamental principle of the separation of powers first discussed by Montesquieu would be violated.

Cannot happen.

Stonepounder

(4,033 posts)
10. No, the President can't pardon himself. But...
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 11:42 AM
Jun 2018

the second paragraph is absolutely terrifying! Trump declares that he is 'temporarily' unable to perform the duties of President at, say 1:00 pm. Pence becomes acting President. At 1:15 pm Pence pardons Donald Trump. At 1:30 pm Trump says, "OK, I'm find now", Pence hands the reins of power back to Trump, and we all proceed on our merry way with Trump pardoned for everything and he didn't try and pardon himself.

Response to sunonmars (Original post)

JohnnyRingo

(18,636 posts)
13. Wouldn't he have to be found guilty of a crime first?
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 12:14 PM
Jun 2018

I'm no lawyer, but neither is the president. I would think he could only pardon himself of crimes if he's convicted of one (or more). Otherwise, it's just an official declaration of innocence, something everyone facing charges does.

Once found guilty, a president may no longer have the ability to pardon anyone, if he's rightly unseated. I weary of making the same tired comparison, but imagine if Bill Clinton pardoned himself of lying under oath.

BobTheSubgenius

(11,564 posts)
15. If the legal minds that wrote the applicable law felt the President should be able to pardon himself
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 09:18 PM
Jun 2018

wouldn't the language state that specifically. Would they assume that the absence of language specifically barring that would imply that he has that power?

That seems awfully sloppy. I'm also by the passage about the 25th...although millions of us were alive to see it already, when Ford was promoted into the Pardoner's Office.

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