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brooklynite

(94,602 posts)
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 10:21 AM Jun 2018

BREAKING: SCOTUS reverses Masterpiece Bake Shop (gay wedding discrimination) ruling

"Whatever the confluence of speech and free exercise principles might be in some cases, the Colorado Civil Rights Commission's consideration of this case was inconsistent with the State's obligation of religious neutrality. The reason and motive for the baker's refusal were based on his sincere religious beliefs and convictions."

7-2 vote (Roberts, Breyer, Alito, Kagan, and Gorsuch join Kennedy's opinion; Kagan concurs, joined by Breyer; Gorsuch concurs, joined by Alito. Thomas concurs in part and in the judgment. Ginsburg dissents, joined by Sotomayor)

Full Ruling

66 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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BREAKING: SCOTUS reverses Masterpiece Bake Shop (gay wedding discrimination) ruling (Original Post) brooklynite Jun 2018 OP
But her emails..... NT Adrahil Jun 2018 #1
If Garland had been appointed to the Court, the outcome would have been the same... brooklynite Jun 2018 #4
Yes, but had the SCOTUS not thrown the election to Bush in 2000, the outcome might not have. LisaM Jun 2018 #51
I don't think so...this is what happens when we have spoiler candidates like Stein...kids ripped Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #64
The was a 7-2 vote with Kagan and Breyer brooklynite Jun 2018 #65
And even if they had voted with us , we still lose. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #66
This Court sucks. OliverQ Jun 2018 #2
I'm starting to be alarmed on where they'll be on gerrymandering. Hugin Jun 2018 #7
This was a ruling JUST about the actions of the Colorado Commission. Cuthbert Allgood Jun 2018 #56
So Public Accommodation is out the window? underpants Jun 2018 #3
No, it is not. n/t quartz007 Jun 2018 #52
Yes. I've read further analysis of this ruling. underpants Jun 2018 #54
No prob...been there, done that. quartz007 Jun 2018 #55
SCOTUSblog: Live blog of orders and opinions mahatmakanejeeves Jun 2018 #5
From Scotusblog... brooklynite Jun 2018 #8
Robert Barnes of WaPo hasn't gotten to this decision yet. mahatmakanejeeves Jun 2018 #11
7-2 DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2018 #6
I am guessing 7 on SCOTUS are religious? quartz007 Jun 2018 #53
There is nothing ever sincere about blatant public bigotry and hatred Johonny Jun 2018 #9
They didn't... brooklynite Jun 2018 #12
The result may be the same Johonny Jun 2018 #50
Terrifying! Zoonart Jun 2018 #10
Read the decision. It isn't what you think. The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2018 #35
And once again, make believe (ie: Christian religious beliefs) trumps the real lives stopbush Jun 2018 #13
Read the decision. It was decided on procedural grounds, The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2018 #29
What would happen if a cake maker refused to bake a cake for a couple from different religions ? DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2018 #14
Hmmmm ... that's what I was thinking in post #16. n/t RKP5637 Jun 2018 #18
You can find a justification for that in the Bible too. DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2018 #21
Yep!!! n/t RKP5637 Jun 2018 #22
Economic anxiety, folks. RandySF Jun 2018 #15
Maybe they can just put plaques on their entrances of who can enter. I wonder RKP5637 Jun 2018 #16
"sincere religious beliefs and convictions" TCJ70 Jun 2018 #17
So, if my religion says no christian can rent an apartment in my building it must RKP5637 Jun 2018 #20
Nope, Court didn't say that brooklynite Jun 2018 #23
Thanks, I also read your post on clarification. Thanks!!! n/t RKP5637 Jun 2018 #24
The court didn't decide the case on the basis of "sincerely held religious beliefs." The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2018 #28
This. EffieBlack Jun 2018 #38
I get that. I'm just making a general statement on "sincere religious beliefs". Thanks! n/t TCJ70 Jun 2018 #44
You're trying really hard. EllieBC Jun 2018 #45
Yeah, I'm about to give up. The knees are jerking too fast for me to keep up with them. The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2018 #46
There is nothing in this ruling that stops Colorado from challenging the Bakery again... brooklynite Jun 2018 #19
Thanks. Didn't have time to read it. underpants Jun 2018 #25
our next move is to put this guy out of business samnsara Jun 2018 #26
Why? The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2018 #27
Why would you support his business? NCTraveler Jun 2018 #31
I don't. But I'm not in favor of targeting someone to destroy their livelihood, either. The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2018 #32
" the free market will take care of it." NCTraveler Jun 2018 #34
He already went out of business fallout87 Jun 2018 #62
This means you can legally discriminate against fundies. roamer65 Jun 2018 #30
It doesn't mean anything of the kind. The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2018 #33
Thanks for pointing this out! Glimmer of Hope Jun 2018 #40
No, the ruling basically exempts religious beliefs from the process. Read the first part of page 2. roamer65 Jun 2018 #58
America TimeSnowDemos Jun 2018 #36
No, it isn't. At least not on account of this case, which was decided on The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2018 #42
As long as freedom TimeSnowDemos Jun 2018 #43
Nobody's freedom got squashed. The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2018 #47
Elections have consequences. nt Alethia Merritt Jun 2018 #37
Not in this case EffieBlack Jun 2018 #39
Also, Kagan, who concurred, was an Obama appointee. The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2018 #41
This message was self-deleted by its author redstatebluegirl Jun 2018 #48
The ruling was 7-2 RhodeIslandOne Jun 2018 #49
2 more SCJ could retire in his term highmindedhavi Jun 2018 #57
Statement from NY AG on this ruling Gothmog Jun 2018 #59
2 different scenarios manicdem Jun 2018 #60
Baseless magical thinking trumps human rights and common decency. Garrett78 Jun 2018 #61
SCOTUSblog: Tuesday round-up mahatmakanejeeves Jun 2018 #63

LisaM

(27,813 posts)
51. Yes, but had the SCOTUS not thrown the election to Bush in 2000, the outcome might not have.
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 12:47 PM
Jun 2018

I have been an angry person since December 12, 2000. And I don't see any signs of that ending.

Demsrule86

(68,593 posts)
64. I don't think so...this is what happens when we have spoiler candidates like Stein...kids ripped
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 10:17 AM
Jun 2018

from their parents and imprisoned, Scotus turning back Gay rights and a deranged monster who would be king.

Demsrule86

(68,593 posts)
66. And even if they had voted with us , we still lose.
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 12:09 PM
Jun 2018

There is no upside to what is happening in the courts...it may have been a deal which resulted in a 'narrow' ruling and not a 5/4 vote on a worse decision for our side.

 

OliverQ

(3,363 posts)
2. This Court sucks.
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 10:22 AM
Jun 2018

I'm starting to think they'll probably side with trump on whether he can be a dictator or not.

Cuthbert Allgood

(4,921 posts)
56. This was a ruling JUST about the actions of the Colorado Commission.
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 12:52 PM
Jun 2018

This was NOT a ruling about religious "freedom." A liberal court would have ruled the same way.

mahatmakanejeeves

(57,504 posts)
5. SCOTUSblog: Live blog of orders and opinions
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 10:25 AM
Jun 2018
Andrew Hamm Manager

Posted Mon, June 4th, 2018 9:00 am

Live blog of orders and opinions

We are live-blogging as the Supreme Court releases orders from the May 31 conference (9:30 a.m.) and opinions in argued cases (10 a.m.). Join us.

brooklynite

(94,602 posts)
8. From Scotusblog...
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 10:26 AM
Jun 2018
The lineup in Masterpiece is fascinating--and the gist of the holding seems to be that the baker did not get a fair and impartial hearing before the state Civil Rights Commission (not that the Commission was prohibited from rejecting his arguments after a fair hearing).

The intro to the opinion thus concludes, "Given all these considerations, it is proper to hold that whatever the outcome of some future controversy involving facts similar to these, the Commission’s actions here violated the Free Exercise Clause; and its order must be set aside."

Johonny

(20,852 posts)
9. There is nothing ever sincere about blatant public bigotry and hatred
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 10:26 AM
Jun 2018

codifying it simply makes us weaker as a nation.

Johonny

(20,852 posts)
50. The result may be the same
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 12:43 PM
Jun 2018

I won't pretend that the likely out come of this is

a) more bigots will be embolden to take this as a green light to do what this baker did. No matter the narrow scope of the ruling. Their president is announcing he can kill a man legally and never be prosecuted. Do I believe these people care about narrow scopes...nope I don't believe that.

b) states where the sympathy lies with said "baker" may use this ruling to justify such course of action as saying, although said person is breaking the law, the prosecution of said person is probably not worth it because the state process is just as flawed as those in Colorado. They need a process review first...which never gets done.

Now that may not happen...may not.

stopbush

(24,396 posts)
13. And once again, make believe (ie: Christian religious beliefs) trumps the real lives
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 10:32 AM
Jun 2018

of real people in the USA.

PATHETIC.

RKP5637

(67,111 posts)
16. Maybe they can just put plaques on their entrances of who can enter. I wonder
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 10:38 AM
Jun 2018

if they will the bake a cake for "Happy Birthday Satan?"

TCJ70

(4,387 posts)
17. "sincere religious beliefs and convictions"
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 10:39 AM
Jun 2018

I'm still waiting for someone to show me where holy cakes and flower decorations are required for a wedding. It's such a garbage argument. If you're going to say this is a sincere religious belief, prove it through the religious texts.

RKP5637

(67,111 posts)
20. So, if my religion says no christian can rent an apartment in my building it must
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 10:42 AM
Jun 2018

now be OK if a sincerely held religious belief by my religion.

brooklynite

(94,602 posts)
23. Nope, Court didn't say that
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 11:00 AM
Jun 2018

The Court said that you have the right to due process when the State challenges your discrimination.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,740 posts)
28. The court didn't decide the case on the basis of "sincerely held religious beliefs."
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 11:15 AM
Jun 2018

They decided it on the basis of whether the Colorado commission gave the baker a fair hearing. It was a procedural case, not a right not to bake a cake case. Read it here: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/16-111_j4el.pdf

EllieBC

(3,016 posts)
45. You're trying really hard.
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 12:24 PM
Jun 2018

But we have become a group of headline skimmers who then use our super psychic powers to guess the rest of article without reading it.

Thanks for trying to explain it but I feel like you're going to be doing this all day. Did you bring a lunch?

brooklynite

(94,602 posts)
19. There is nothing in this ruling that stops Colorado from challenging the Bakery again...
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 10:42 AM
Jun 2018

...it just requires that a fairer hearing be held.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
31. Why would you support his business?
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 11:22 AM
Jun 2018

There have to be societal repercussions. Hopefully the state takes them back to court soon. During that time I can't see why someone would be bothered by going after their bottom line.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,740 posts)
32. I don't. But I'm not in favor of targeting someone to destroy their livelihood, either.
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 11:25 AM
Jun 2018

If people in that city who buy baked goods find their position reprehensible, the free market will take care of it.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
34. " the free market will take care of it."
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 11:35 AM
Jun 2018

Exactly. That's why it was mentioned.

I hope they lose enough business to go down. I still understand there are a lot of people out there who would ask "why".

There is no such thing as a "free market" outside of Republicans wet dreams.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,740 posts)
33. It doesn't mean anything of the kind.
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 11:26 AM
Jun 2018

It means only that in the court's opinion a state agency didn't give both parties a fair and neutral hearing. This wasn't a right not to bake a cake case; it was a procedure case. Read it here: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/16-111_j4el.pdf

roamer65

(36,745 posts)
58. No, the ruling basically exempts religious beliefs from the process. Read the first part of page 2.
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 01:24 PM
Jun 2018

I hereby exercise that exemption for my agnostic beliefs and reserve the right to deny any goods or services to religious nuts as I deem fit.

It’s a horrible ruling. It shrouds bigoted behavior as a first amendment right.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,740 posts)
42. No, it isn't. At least not on account of this case, which was decided on
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 12:04 PM
Jun 2018

procedural grounds and does not say anything about anybody's right not to bake a wedding cake. It may be crumbling for other reasons but this case isn't contributing to it.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,740 posts)
47. Nobody's freedom got squashed.
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 12:27 PM
Jun 2018

The bakery could get sued again and probably would lose this time because the state law has changed, if the commission were to keep its comments neutral.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
39. Not in this case
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 11:53 AM
Jun 2018

Even if Hillary had won and appointed Merrick Garland to the Court and Garland dissented, the result would have been the same, just with a 6-3 ruling.

This case is not as awful as some people think - it was decided on purely procedural grounds and does not in any way impact anyone's substantive rights.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,740 posts)
41. Also, Kagan, who concurred, was an Obama appointee.
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 12:02 PM
Jun 2018

Elections have consequences, but not on this particular case.

Response to brooklynite (Original post)

manicdem

(389 posts)
60. 2 different scenarios
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 02:58 PM
Jun 2018

The confusion in the case appears to be the type of cake being made.

If it was a plain white wedding cake with no decorations, then the baker would have to sell the gay couple the cake.

The other scenario is a decorated cake where the baker would create a custom cake with his artistic talents. It should be left to the artists discretion to make the cake or not

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