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Ferrets are Cool

(21,107 posts)
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 06:05 PM Jun 2018

I keep hearing that the detention center is a "private" entity

You know...the one that Senator Merkley was denied access to. I have a lot of questions, but one in particular.
HOW IN THE FUCK IS IT NOT KIDNAPPING IF A PRIVATE ENTITY HAS CHILDREN LOCKED IN CAGES???

What is the latest on this travesty please? Does anyone have an update?

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I keep hearing that the detention center is a "private" entity (Original Post) Ferrets are Cool Jun 2018 OP
If they are holding children on behalf of Bettie Jun 2018 #1
It is really, really hard for me to believe a court order hasn't Ferrets are Cool Jun 2018 #2
I'm gussing he'll get in Bettie Jun 2018 #4
That's what I'm thinking too. nt Ferrets are Cool Jun 2018 #8
Theresienstadt unblock Jun 2018 #16
On what grounds would it be done? Lee-Lee Jun 2018 #59
You're kidding right??????? Ferrets are Cool Jun 2018 #60
No. A court order needs a basis in law behind it Lee-Lee Jun 2018 #64
FWIW just being a Senator doesn't get you access to any Governor agency or contractor Lee-Lee Jun 2018 #34
Just call Senator Portman's office...call call and call...I don't have a GOP house member but Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #54
Private, for-profit prisons are a thing int he US these days. nt tblue37 Jun 2018 #3
They have privatized this treestar Jun 2018 #5
A private company may be running it, but it's still being paid by our tax dollars. GoCubsGo Jun 2018 #11
Pretty much none of what you said is accurate Lee-Lee Jun 2018 #62
This message was self-deleted by its author GoCubsGo Jun 2018 #79
Have you seen pictures or descriptions from the Trump administration Ms. Toad Jun 2018 #6
Senator Merkley, on All In avebury Jun 2018 #17
Thanks. Ms. Toad Jun 2018 #33
the police industrial complex wants us all in for profit prisons nt msongs Jun 2018 #7
I've been using the word kidnapping from malaise Jun 2018 #9
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2018 #32
Wrong end of the private stick. I'm sure they mean "to protect the privacy of the children". Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2018 #10
As far as I can determine, there has been NO update on this yet. Ferrets are Cool Jun 2018 #12
I called both my US Senators about this today. PatrickforO Jun 2018 #13
Thank you for doing that. Ferrets are Cool Jun 2018 #14
I called my Senators too bdamomma Jun 2018 #25
I don't have specific update, however.... alwaysinasnit Jun 2018 #15
Thank you for this link. nt Ferrets are Cool Jun 2018 #18
The ACLU must be on this too bdamomma Jun 2018 #24
Would it make a difference SCVDem Jun 2018 #19
Still, it is being paid for by taxpayer dollars. Therefore, they Ilsa Jun 2018 #20
I still can't wrap my head around this at all Ilsa... Ferrets are Cool Jun 2018 #21
As I posted above elected officials don't just get access to every government facility or contractor Lee-Lee Jun 2018 #35
You are defending this? As a taxpayer and a citizen, I want to know what is being done Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #44
You realize the nonprofit doing this has been doing it for 20 years, right? Lee-Lee Jun 2018 #52
In south Texas? No not good enough. I think this policy is wrong and I don't trust any Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #69
this is not good at all bdamomma Jun 2018 #22
Outrage AND actions... Ferrets are Cool Jun 2018 #23
Chris Hayes says the windows bdamomma Jun 2018 #26
Too reminiscent of another horrible time in history. nt Ferrets are Cool Jun 2018 #27
Rachael reporting it right NOW. Ferrets are Cool Jun 2018 #28
This is horrible. Private entity? An old Wal-Mart store? Yeh. Private entity fer sure. Kajun Gal Jun 2018 #29
Where is the international community on this? C_U_L8R Jun 2018 #30
The government has outsourced the maintenance of the KCDebbie Jun 2018 #31
It's a nonprofit aid agency actually Lee-Lee Jun 2018 #37
Says who? Do you have a link? KCDebbie Jun 2018 #41
Here you go Lee-Lee Jun 2018 #42
If you had links to info you should have posted them KCDebbie Jun 2018 #95
This one has more detaik Lee-Lee Jun 2018 #53
A non-profit aid agency that keeps kids in cages? I don't give a damn. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #45
The kids are not in cages. Quit repeating that nonsense Lee-Lee Jun 2018 #51
How do you know it's nonsense. No, what is NONSENSICAL is not being a Ferrets are Cool Jun 2018 #61
Read my other posts explaining it Lee-Lee Jun 2018 #63
Faux so-called news is skewering Senator Merkley as is its propaganda arm in the WH Ferrets are Cool Jun 2018 #65
How do you know? They are locked up in a Walmart building with no chance to go out and Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #70
I think you are confusing two places. I was too Lee-Lee Jun 2018 #36
We should be able to inspect any facility that is holding anyone on behalf of the U.S. government. Vinca Jun 2018 #38
I posted a link below but here it is again Lee-Lee Jun 2018 #40
I'm sorry. When they won't let a U.S. senator in - especially since he called beforehand - I'm Vinca Jun 2018 #43
US Senators don't get unfettered access to any government facilities Lee-Lee Jun 2018 #48
So we just let the kids rot. Wonderful. I'll risk Rand Paul being an asshole over a kid who might Vinca Jun 2018 #92
Is there any evidence kids are "rotting"? Lee-Lee Jun 2018 #93
Aren't you even slightly interested in what your tax dollars are paying for?????? Vinca Jun 2018 #94
There is no oversight.... Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #46
That's simply not true based on what I can find Lee-Lee Jun 2018 #50
You don't have information on oversight because it doesn't exist...there seems to be no Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #71
I actually took some time and researched this. A lot is being misrepresented Lee-Lee Jun 2018 #39
Sorry this is being done in my name. I want transparency period. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #47
Have you looked? Lee-Lee Jun 2018 #56
I looke at everything and even googled it. But I know that there is insufficient Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #66
Additional information...first of all... Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #84
Your confusing two places Lee-Lee Jun 2018 #91
Bullshit. We don't know what the circumstances are. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #49
We know plenty of you take time to research Lee-Lee Jun 2018 #55
We don't. What we have is an organization with very little tranparency looking after Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #67
On what do you base the claim of little transparency? Lee-Lee Jun 2018 #73
I don't know...being held in an old Walmart building (that alone is child abuse) and the windows Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #80
thanks for posting this information bdamomma Jun 2018 #57
That's a legitimate issue for sure Lee-Lee Jun 2018 #58
Here is the President of the organization running that facility Lee-Lee Jun 2018 #68
There is nothin in that bio that shows he is capable of doing a good job with these kids...nothing Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #81
Sorry, but your link isn't proof. It's just a bio. kcr Jun 2018 #82
What exactly are you demanding? Lee-Lee Jun 2018 #83
Wow. Hardly. kcr Jun 2018 #85
There are separate issues here Lee-Lee Jun 2018 #86
Wal Mart with blacked out windows and no transparency is not caring for them. kcr Jun 2018 #87
So you don't have anything, in other words Lee-Lee Jun 2018 #88
What? kcr Jun 2018 #89
It's not on "faith". There are numerous levels of oversight Lee-Lee Jun 2018 #90
Hi Ferrets syringis Jun 2018 #72
... Ferrets are Cool Jun 2018 #74
Kick ck4829 Jun 2018 #75
no kidding gopiscrap Jun 2018 #76
Why can't Crutchez_CuiBono Jun 2018 #77
This from the site of the organization with the blacked out windows... Ferrets are Cool Jun 2018 #78

Bettie

(16,110 posts)
1. If they are holding children on behalf of
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 06:17 PM
Jun 2018

the Federal Government, a US Senator should be given access to the facility.

The facility itself may not be federally owned, but those children are in the custody of our government.

Bettie

(16,110 posts)
4. I'm gussing he'll get in
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 06:24 PM
Jun 2018

there eventually and they'll have time to get it cleaned up and have a couple of kids "camera ready".

unblock

(52,253 posts)
16. Theresienstadt
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 08:31 PM
Jun 2018
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theresienstadt_concentration_camp

Late in the war, after D-Day and the invasion of Normandy, the Nazis permitted representatives from the Danish Red Cross and the International Red Cross to visit Theresienstadt in order to dispel rumours about the extermination camps. The commission that visited on June 23, 1944, included E. Juel-Henningsen, the head physician at the Danish Ministry of Health, and Franz Hvass, the top civil servant at the Danish Foreign Ministry. Dr. Paul Eppstein was instructed by the SS to appear in the role of the mayor of Theresienstadt.[47]

Weeks of preparation preceded the visit. The area was cleaned up, and the Nazis deported many Jews to Auschwitz to minimise the appearance of overcrowding in Theresienstadt. Also deported in these actions were most of the Czechoslovak workers assigned to "Operation Embellishment". The Nazis directed the building of fake shops and cafés to imply that the Jews lived in relative comfort.

The Danes whom the Red Cross visited lived in freshly painted rooms, not more than three in a room. Rooms viewed may have included the homes of the "prominent" Jews of Theresienstadt, who were afforded the special privilege of having as few as two occupants to a room.[15] The guests attended a performance of a children's opera, Brundibár, which was written by inmate Hans Krása.

The Red Cross representatives were conducted on a tour following a predetermined path designated by a red line on a map. The representatives apparently did not attempt to divert from the tour route on which they were led by the Germans, who posed questions to the Jewish residents along the way. If the representatives asked residents questions directly, they were ignored, in accordance with the Germans' instructions to the residents prior to the tour. Despite this, the Red Cross apparently formed a positive impression of the town.[15]

Following the successful use of Theresienstadt as a supposed model internment camp during the Red Cross visit, the Nazis decided to make a propaganda film there. It was directed by Jewish prisoner Kurt Gerron, an experienced director and actor; he had appeared with Marlene Dietrich in The Blue Angel. Shooting took eleven days, starting September 1, 1944.[48] After the film was completed, the director and most of the cast were deported to Auschwitz. Gerron was murdered by gas chamber on 28 October 1944.[49]

The film was intended to show how well the Jews were living under the purportedly benevolent protection of the Third Reich. If taken at face value, it documents the Jews of Theresienstadt living a relatively comfortable existence within a thriving cultural centre and functioning successfully during the hardships of World War II. They had to comply and perform according to Nazi orders. Often called The Führer Gives a Village to the Jews, the correct name of the film is Theresienstadt. Ein Dokumentarfilm aus dem jüdischen Siedlungsgebiet ("Terezin: A Documentary Film of the Jewish Resettlement&quot .[a] As the film was not completed until near the end of the war, it was never distributed as intended, although a few screenings were held. Most of the film was destroyed, but some footage has survived.[citation needed]

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
64. No. A court order needs a basis in law behind it
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 10:34 AM
Jun 2018

What law would the Senator approach the court with saying that they must issue an order allowing him access.

“I’m a Senator I can do anything” won’t work.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
34. FWIW just being a Senator doesn't get you access to any Governor agency or contractor
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 06:39 AM
Jun 2018

I work for a government contractor and if a US Sentor showed up and was demanding access with cameras in tow there is a 99.9% chance they would ask them to leave also.

If they called and asked for access it would have to be worked out like any other VIP tour, and would be when it could be done and now when they insisted.

There is no clause in a contract that gives unfettered access to elected officials, as much as they may like there to be.

I get what he is doing to raise awareness, but he knew very well when he showed up he wouldn’t get access and legally he didn’t have any grounds to demand it. But showing up with cameras in town did get the attention he wanted for the issue.

Demsrule86

(68,586 posts)
54. Just call Senator Portman's office...call call and call...I don't have a GOP house member but
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 08:42 AM
Jun 2018

if you do call them too.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
5. They have privatized this
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 06:26 PM
Jun 2018

Government function as so many others. Like they want to do to the post office and schools

GoCubsGo

(32,086 posts)
11. A private company may be running it, but it's still being paid by our tax dollars.
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 07:59 PM
Jun 2018

So, this is still technically a federal facility, regardless of who is running it. In a normal world, that contractor would have had its contract revoked for their actions against Sen. Merkley. But, as we all know, this is not normal.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
62. Pretty much none of what you said is accurate
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 10:28 AM
Jun 2018

It’s a non-profit agency running it, not a private company. I know the media has been misrepresenting this so I’ll give you a pass for not fact checking that.

Being a government contractor, private company or a non-profit, does not turn your premises into a federal facility “technically”. There is no such regulation or law. Your making shit up there.

An elected official, Sentor or anyone else, doesn’t get unfettered access to all facilities, be they actual government facilities or those of a contractor. I work for a government contractor and if a Senator shows up at our facility unannounced they are not getting in either. If a Senator drives up to a controlled area on a military base they won’t be allowed in either.

There is no provision in a government contract to terminate it for not allowing a Senator access. In fact contracts usually say the opposite and place restrictions on who may have access and when. That is true in this case where the Office of Refugee Resettlement requires all visitors to be cleared by them. The contractor can’t grant access without ORR clearing it even if they wanted to. That is actually in the contract, as per the statement made by the nonprofit running this facility. So your statement that a contract would lose a contract for this is actually 180 degrees off. A contractor will lose a contract for violation of the contract- and letting anyone, even a Senator, in against the terms of the contract would be a violation. And these contracts way predate the Trump Administration it’s not his rules here.

Please, please be responsible enough to do a few minutes of fact checking before posting absolute nonsense that isn’t grounded in reality. It just makes us look bad.

Response to Lee-Lee (Reply #62)

Ms. Toad

(34,076 posts)
6. Have you seen pictures or descriptions from the Trump administration
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 06:30 PM
Jun 2018

that meets the description, "children locked in cages"?

I would not be surprised, but the only pictures and descriptions I've seen that meet the description "cages," predate Trump.

avebury

(10,952 posts)
17. Senator Merkley, on All In
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 08:39 PM
Jun 2018

With Chris Hayes, talked about seeing adults with children in cages and children without adults in the cages in the 2 facilities he saw. The facility he was turned away from holds 1000 children.

Ms. Toad

(34,076 posts)
33. Thanks.
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 04:33 AM
Jun 2018

I did a quick search and didn't find anything more recent than 2014 that talked about the conditions in the facilities.

Response to malaise (Reply #9)

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,009 posts)
10. Wrong end of the private stick. I'm sure they mean "to protect the privacy of the children".
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 07:42 PM
Jun 2018

... not "private enterprise".

PatrickforO

(14,577 posts)
13. I called both my US Senators about this today.
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 08:24 PM
Jun 2018

This whole thing is sick, and ICE needs to be seriously reined in. Not only that, but these detention centers should NEVER be privatized.

alwaysinasnit

(5,066 posts)
15. I don't have specific update, however....
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 08:29 PM
Jun 2018

I get updates from the American Immigration Council. They have a section where they provide info on abuses....

http://immigrationimpact.com/category/enforcement/abuses/

bdamomma

(63,875 posts)
24. The ACLU must be on this too
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 09:35 PM
Jun 2018

this is making me feel very uneasy, putting children in cages???? That's what Senator Merkeley said on Chris Hayes.

We are losing our souls and decency.

 

SCVDem

(5,103 posts)
19. Would it make a difference
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 08:57 PM
Jun 2018

If the children were Jewish?

We have become Nazis. They also separated children. We do not know if we have an American Josef Mengele behind those doors

So much for a free and open society.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
35. As I posted above elected officials don't just get access to every government facility or contractor
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 06:41 AM
Jun 2018

I work for a government contractor and if a US Sentor showed up and was demanding access with cameras in tow there is a 99.9% chance they would ask them to leave also.

If they called and asked for access it would have to be worked out like any other VIP tour, and would be when it could be done and not when they insisted.

There is no clause in a contract that gives unfettered access to elected officials, as much as they may like there to be.

I get what he is doing to raise awareness, but he knew very well when he showed up he wouldn’t get access and legally he didn’t have any grounds to demand it. But showing up with cameras in town did get the attention he wanted for the issue.

Demsrule86

(68,586 posts)
44. You are defending this? As a taxpayer and a citizen, I want to know what is being done
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 08:19 AM
Jun 2018

in my name....we need to fight for these kids and I don't give a damn about government contractors which my Dad was at times in my childhood...so I understand how it works...but the Criminal enterprise of Trump needs to be taken down. All involved need to face Crimes against humanity at the Hague...that would include the foot soldiers in those facilities.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
52. You realize the nonprofit doing this has been doing it for 20 years, right?
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 08:34 AM
Jun 2018
http://www.swkey.org/programs/shelters/

All the way through the Obama Administration who saw no issue with the same people running the same facilities.

Please take a few moments to fact check before rushing to outrage.

Demsrule86

(68,586 posts)
69. In south Texas? No not good enough. I think this policy is wrong and I don't trust any
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 10:44 AM
Jun 2018

involved...seen plenty of abuses in non-profits. All involved need to be tried for crimes against humanity.

Ferrets are Cool

(21,107 posts)
23. Outrage AND actions...
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 09:10 PM
Jun 2018

I want to see actions, as in court ordered warrants AND constant video surveillance to make sure nothing is removed to undisclosed locations.

bdamomma

(63,875 posts)
26. Chris Hayes says the windows
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 09:45 PM
Jun 2018

in that Walmart building were blackened, that's inhumane. What are doing to those children and babies starving them????

C_U_L8R

(45,003 posts)
30. Where is the international community on this?
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 10:15 PM
Jun 2018

are these crimes against humanity or what?

And why isn't our own justice department sending agents to liberate these captive children??

When's our turn? When will these jackbooted jackasses try to lock us up too (if we don't stop them now)?

 

KCDebbie

(664 posts)
31. The government has outsourced the maintenance of the
Mon Jun 4, 2018, 10:15 PM
Jun 2018

detained children to a private company - the same type of business arrangement that is currently used by the for-profit prisons... I'd like to know how much we, the government, are being charged per week for each child detained.

Undocumented immigrants, and these children, have become a revenue source in America now... Which of Trump's friends is a big player in the for-profit prison industry, I wonder...

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
42. Here you go
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 08:13 AM
Jun 2018
http://www.swkey.org/news/senator_merkley/

Look around their website.

It actually looks to me like people who have been helping immigrat children for
More than 20 years.

A little fact checking before jumping to outrage goes a long way.
 

KCDebbie

(664 posts)
95. If you had links to info you should have posted them
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 09:58 PM
Jun 2018

In the first place. Did you expect to be believed based on your word alone? Don't get your feelings hurt by being challenged...

Also, one of the reasons people come to forums is to share and exchange info and ideas... I'm glad you were able to cite some sources. I might even check them out!

Have a nice evening...

Demsrule86

(68,586 posts)
45. A non-profit aid agency that keeps kids in cages? I don't give a damn.
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 08:21 AM
Jun 2018

We insisted the Germans allow us to view concentration camps ...hence Theresienstadt. I am a bit shocked at some of the positions you have taken lately I must say.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
51. The kids are not in cages. Quit repeating that nonsense
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 08:32 AM
Jun 2018

The reports of cages were holding cells at the Border Patrol Station, not these facilities.

Making blatantly false and exaggerated claims like this is how we lose credibility on issues.

Ferrets are Cool

(21,107 posts)
61. How do you know it's nonsense. No, what is NONSENSICAL is not being a
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 10:25 AM
Jun 2018

US Senator not being allowed in to see what is going on in there. How can that be defended???

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
63. Read my other posts explaining it
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 10:33 AM
Jun 2018

The non-profit running these places has been caring for refugee children for 20+ years.

The contract with Office of Refugee Resettlement requires that all visitors be cleared and scheduled by ORR. All. There is no exemption for a Senator. And those contracts predate the Trump Administration.

They control all visitors for the privacy of the minor children. I don’t know if you have ever dealt with legal issues around minors, custody and privacy but it’s serious shit with complicated laws.

Some people seem to thing being an elected official is an all access pass to go anywhere, ignore rules and demand anything. The real world isn’t like that.

Ferrets are Cool

(21,107 posts)
65. Faux so-called news is skewering Senator Merkley as is its propaganda arm in the WH
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 10:37 AM
Jun 2018

this morning. What you are saying may be true, but I adamantly contend that transparency is required here.

Merkley Communications Director Ray Zaccaro shot back at the White House and insisted on more transparency.

“The White House is smearing Senator Merkley because they can’t defend their indefensible policy of snatching children from their parents," Zaccaro said. "Senator Merkley and his staff saw children in cages yesterday at the DHS processing center. We still have no idea what’s happening in the detention center where reportedly up to a thousand children are being held, since they refused the Senator’s request to go inside."

Demsrule86

(68,586 posts)
70. How do you know? They are locked up in a Walmart building with no chance to go out and
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 10:46 AM
Jun 2018

darkened windows...that is a cage in my opinion. I want it to stop.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
36. I think you are confusing two places. I was too
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 07:55 AM
Jun 2018

I had to do more research.

The facility he was turned away from is one run by a nonprofit NGO that contracts with the government to care for refugee minors while their cases are handled. It looks like they have been doing this for more than 10 years.

The reference to “cages” was not about that facility or another one like it, but from the Senators visit to the Brownsville Border Patrol center, where they have holding cells that everyone who is detained coming across the border gets held in until they process them.

There is no actual report that any private entity or nonprofit had anyone in cafes.

Vinca

(50,278 posts)
38. We should be able to inspect any facility that is holding anyone on behalf of the U.S. government.
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 08:02 AM
Jun 2018

Forget cages, I'm bothered about the idea of 1,000 children being held inside a windowless building away from their parents for who knows how long. What are they sleeping on? What are the dining facilities? What is their diet? Do they get regular medical care? Schooling? How many staff members are assigned to how many children? Are there babies and toddlers there? This shouldn't be a secret. If they are too ashamed or afraid to show us the conditions the kids are living in, it shouldn't exist. How do we get in????

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
40. I posted a link below but here it is again
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 08:09 AM
Jun 2018
http://www.swkey.org/news/senator_merkley/

It looks like they not only have to meet the standards of the Federal government for the Office of Refugee Resettlement but that they are also inspected by the state and held to the same standards as any other facility caring for children.

So it looks like there is oversight and there are people looking and making sure they are cared for on the Federal, State and Local level.

Just because they won’t let you in doesn’t mean the don’t have people doing the oversight.

Vinca

(50,278 posts)
43. I'm sorry. When they won't let a U.S. senator in - especially since he called beforehand - I'm
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 08:18 AM
Jun 2018

suspicious. There is oversight and then there is "oversight." If they are not ashamed of what is there, they should not only allow Merkley in, they should allow him to photograph the interior so taxpayers can see what is being done on their behalf. I just emailed my senator asking her to introduce legislation that would make it mandatory that any U.S. official can have access to the holding facilities and without notice. We don't need staged inspections.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
48. US Senators don't get unfettered access to any government facilities
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 08:27 AM
Jun 2018

Nor should they.

His goals were noble. What if Rand Paul decided he was also going to visit and use footage from his visit to attack the children as drains on taxpayers and selectively edit hours of footage for a few moments when some were acting out (as scared children under stress will) to portray them as violent or dangerous?

There are good reasons for limiting acces, even for Senators. Our guys wouldn’t misuse access but the GOP would.

Vinca

(50,278 posts)
92. So we just let the kids rot. Wonderful. I'll risk Rand Paul being an asshole over a kid who might
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 03:01 PM
Jun 2018

be preyed upon or neglected or abused in a top secret facility. It's like a black site for kids.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
93. Is there any evidence kids are "rotting"?
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 03:12 PM
Jun 2018

The facilities are inspected by both Federal workers from the Office of Refugee Resettlement and State and local child welfare offices regularly. Has there been any sign anyone has seen children “rotting”?

Vinca

(50,278 posts)
94. Aren't you even slightly interested in what your tax dollars are paying for??????
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 05:26 PM
Jun 2018

Of course there is no evidence of rotting because everything is locked up behind closed doors. As for state and local welfare offices keeping tabs on things, stories of kids dying while in their custody are not uncommon. Most state offices are overworked, especially in light of the kids in trouble because of the opioid crisis. If they won't let a U.S. Senator in, they're hiding something. Is there a space where they can go outdoors and get a little exercise and sunshine? Who knows? Are they being fed anything other than peanut butter and jelly? Who knows? Do they sleep on the floor with space blankets? Who knows? It's bad enough we're separating parents and children without leaving little ones to fate. Maybe they'll have a responsible caretaker, maybe they won't. I don't want to learn after the fact the places were pedophile paradises.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
50. That's simply not true based on what I can find
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 08:28 AM
Jun 2018

Read here:

http://www.swkey.org/programs/shelters/

Do you have information that says that what they say about oversight is untrue?

Demsrule86

(68,586 posts)
71. You don't have information on oversight because it doesn't exist...there seems to be no
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 10:47 AM
Jun 2018

oversight...and it has to stop.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
39. I actually took some time and researched this. A lot is being misrepresented
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 08:05 AM
Jun 2018

First, the Senotor never claimed he saw children in cages at one of these facilities. He was referring to holding cells at the Border Patrol Station.

Second, the “private entity” is actually a nonprofit aid agency that has been caring for unaccompanied refugee and immigrant minors for more than 20 years.

If you look at their website it look like they are an agency that has done a lot of good work.

Here is their statement on his visit and why he wasn’t allowed in- they are not allowed to let any visitors in unless the Office of Refugee Resettlement authorizes it: http://www.swkey.org/news/senator_merkley/

So- it’s a long established non-profit aid agency, not a for profit company. They have been doing this same work for over 20 years.Kids are not in “cages”, that was a reference to holding cells at the Border Patrol station,

That people have jumped to “private company holding kids in cages” shows how much the media is manipulating this issue for sensationalism and how little some people bother to do even a little fact checking in their own before running with stuff.

We are better than this folks- take 5 minutes to fact check a little before running with outlandish claims like “private companies keeping kids in cages” and then jumping right to Holocaust references.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
56. Have you looked?
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 08:46 AM
Jun 2018

The non-profit running these has been doing it for 20+ years and there is a load of information on them out there.

The State of Texas has all the inspections and records available, many online, where you can see the results of inspections dating back to 2016 and earlier and see why faults were found and how/when they were fixed.

You are saying you don’t know but have you even looked? It took me justa. Few minutes to find loads of data and make an informed judgement instead of jumping on a media bandwagon.

Demsrule86

(68,586 posts)
66. I looke at everything and even googled it. But I know that there is insufficient
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 10:38 AM
Jun 2018

oversight at the state level from experience. Thus I want federal oversight and transparency. Kids locked up in old Walmart building with insufficient caregivers who are not even federal workers is a bad idea...and I want no part of it.

Demsrule86

(68,586 posts)
84. Additional information...first of all...
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 12:46 PM
Jun 2018

Dr. Sanchez makes over $700,000 a year. His CFO makes over $ 500,000...makes you go hmmm....and the Senator is the one who reported the kids in cages...Ok...you think he is lying?

"Sen. Jeff Merkley (D-OR) said that he saw undocumented children in cages sleeping on thin space blankets on a concrete floor at a border processing facility. He was then barred from entering another immigrant detention center, he told CNN Monday in an interview.

“They have big cages made out of fencing and wire and nets stretched across the top of them so people can’t climb out,” Merkley told CNN’s Alisyn Camerota of the McAllen border patrol station in Texas he toured on Sunday. “It’s just a concrete floor and people are being given these space blankets to sleep on. A space blanket is…the equivalent of foil. So obviously a very uncomfortable situation to be in.”

Merkley added that when he inquired about the draconian living conditions, he was given “generic” answers: “this is what’s required for security, this is what’s required for control.”

So kids sleeping on concrete within cages...you keep defending this?

http://www.newsweek.com/ceo-non-profit-shelter-called-police-senator-trying-visit-detained-children-956802

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/merkley-sees-migrant-kids-kept-in-cages-barred-from-border-facility

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
91. Your confusing two places
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 01:58 PM
Jun 2018

I’ve explained this before and people don’t seem to grasp.

He saw the people in “cages” at the Border Patrol facilities at the Border where people are taken when they are first caught crossing the border. They are holding cells while people get processed.


After they are processed the kids are handed to the care of the Office of Refugee Resettlement. They are the ones who handle the care of these kids and contract with this agency.

Not the same facility, not the same people running it.

Saying because it’s there means it must be inside all these other places is a logical fallacy and straight out either dishonest or stupid. It’s like saying you say someone eating a tacos at Taco Bell so therefore McDoanlds must have tacos also. It is two totally separate facilities run by totally separate agencies and people serving two totally different purposes.

I don’t know if people are not just comprehending the difference, or are intentionally misrepresenting it, but the cages were holding cells at the Border Patrol checkpoint where people go when they first cross to be processed- NOT in the facilities where the children go after.

Demsrule86

(68,586 posts)
49. Bullshit. We don't know what the circumstances are.
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 08:28 AM
Jun 2018

I want to know what is going on period. Trust (not in this case) but verify.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
55. We know plenty of you take time to research
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 08:46 AM
Jun 2018

The non-profit running these has been doing it for 20+ years and there is a load of information on them out there.

The State of Texas has all the inspections and records available, many online, where you can see the results of inspections dating back to 2016 and earlier and see why faults were found and how/when they were fixed.

You are saying you don’t know but have you even looked? It took me justa. Few minutes to find loads of data and make an informed judgement instead of jumping on a media bandwagon.

Demsrule86

(68,586 posts)
67. We don't. What we have is an organization with very little tranparency looking after
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 10:40 AM
Jun 2018

kids ripped from their parents arms which is a bad thing to begin with...and we have no idea the conditions these kids are being held in.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
73. On what do you base the claim of little transparency?
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 11:13 AM
Jun 2018

I was able to pull up the organizations annual reports, look at the people running it, look at the publicly available reports where the state inspected the facilities, and find loads of other information online to make a decision on.

Several things are clear if you look:

The people running the organization are clearly very progressive people who are advocates for immigrants. Look at their bios and past works.

The organization has been working with and providing housing, education, physical and mental health care and education for refugee children for more than two decades.

The reports on file with the State about inspections and issues are available online, and while they do have some issues they don’t appear to have any more than similarly sized organizations and they do rectify problems the state finds, as the records show. Given they are working with children in such tough circumstances the record I see in their inspection reports actually has fewer problems than I would have expected.

What, exactly, do you want in the name of “transparency” that isn’t there if you bother to look that can be had while also maintaining respect for the privacy of the children and complying with federal and state regulations for maintaining the privacy for minor children in state custody?

Demsrule86

(68,586 posts)
80. I don't know...being held in an old Walmart building (that alone is child abuse) and the windows
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 12:12 PM
Jun 2018

are blackened....so much transparency.

bdamomma

(63,875 posts)
57. thanks for posting this information
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 09:04 AM
Jun 2018

I just find this whole matter disturbing they should not be pulling families apart period.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
58. That's a legitimate issue for sure
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 09:39 AM
Jun 2018

And we should be focused on that, not making stiff up about these places holding kids in cages when by all information out there that isn’t true.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
68. Here is the President of the organization running that facility
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 10:42 AM
Jun 2018
http://www.swkey.org/about/leadership/dr_juan_sanchez/






Dr. Juan J. Sánchez, grew up in one of the poorest neighborhoods in Brownsville, Texas on the border of Mexico where life was full of challenges. He was fortunate to have a number of caring, supportive adults in his life that encouraged him to dream big and pursue an education and he became determined to spend his life helping as many people as he could to escape poverty through educational and other opportunities. His tenacity ultimately took him to Harvard University, where he was among the first Latinos to receive his doctorate from the School of Education.

In 1987, Dr. Sánchez founded Southwest Key Programs in a basement in San Antonio, Texas with a staff of five. Today, the non-profit serves youth and their families in seven states across the U.S. Through Southwest Key's work in the juvenile justice field, thousands of youth have been diverted from facilities and allowed to finish school. Through Southwest Key’s immigrant children’s shelters, thousands of unaccompanied minors have been reunified with their families.

In 2007, when Southwest Key Programs moved headquarters to the historically underserved neighborhood of East Austin, Dr. Sánchez got the opportunity to test his belief that, in order to help a child, you must help that child's entire community. Launching the East Austin Children's Promise initiative, the non-profit began offering programming in community empowerment, education, and professional development. Dr. Sánchez also realized a lifelong dream in 2009 when Southwest Key was able to write the charter for East Austin College Prep, an innovative, public charter school that aims to get 100 percent of its students into college. In the spring of 2016, that goal became a reality when 100 percent of the school’s inaugural graduating class was accepted to college.

Dr. Sanchez has served on the boards of the National Council of La Raza (NCLR) the National Council on Crime and Delinquency, and is an advisor to the Vera Institute of Justice and the Annie E. Casey Foundation's Juvenile Detention Alternatives Initiative. He was named Best Non-Profit CEO by the Austin Business Journal and is the recipient of the Ohtli Award from the Mexican Consulate, the Freddy Fender Humanitarian Award, the Rising to the Challenge Social Justice Award from LULAC, and the Leading Voices Award from American Gateways for his work on behalf of immigrant children.



Do you folks really think he is shoving kids in cages for profit?

kcr

(15,317 posts)
82. Sorry, but your link isn't proof. It's just a bio.
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 12:29 PM
Jun 2018

If there is so much transparency as you claim, it should be easy to show the Wal Mart with blacked out windows is legit.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
83. What exactly are you demanding?
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 12:39 PM
Jun 2018

That they parade the kids out for public review like a circus parade? That they set up observation areas so people can go observe them like a zoo?

kcr

(15,317 posts)
85. Wow. Hardly.
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 12:48 PM
Jun 2018

But sorry that I'm not ok with ripping kids with their parents and socking them away in old Wal Mart buildings with blackout windows where no one can see how they're being treated. That anyone at Democratic Underground is is sadly not surprising to me, but nothing new.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
86. There are separate issues here
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 01:15 PM
Jun 2018

Separating children from parents= bad.

Having them cared for by a nonprofit agency, one that by all measures seems to be caring and run by very progressive people, while they work to reunite them and get their refugee claims handled I don’t have a problem with.

By all measures I can find the agency looks like they are good people.

You seem very hung up on it being a former zeal-Mart. Why? Would a former Target be better for you? It’s actually not surprising given that you can buy or lease former Wal-Marts cheap. Near here we have a county who bought one and moved the Healt Department and Social Services into it. I’ve been in there, they did a great job and it’s a nice facility. You can take an empty shell and do so much with it.

Of course they block the window so people like you can’t go gawking and peeping. They are human being and minor children deserving of privacy and in fact the agency has a legal responsibility to keep and maintain their private at from people like you wanna ho think the windows should be open so you can go look in like the windows at a pet store.

Being separated from Parents is a legit complaint. That is the Trump Administration.

That is seperate from these facilities and how they are run.

If you had actual, legitimate complaints about how they are being treated that would be one thing. You haven’t given one.

You’ve complained it’s a former Wal-Mart, as if the former tenant somehow taints it. It’s a building shell they could get and redo inside.

You’ve complained the windows are blocked so you can’t see inside. That’s a complaint to you, but it’s actually good they have done that- it keeps people who are unrelated to the kids who think they have a right to go leer at them out of curiosity from invading their privacy. If the windows were not blocked and anyone could see in you would be seeing footage of the kids all over right wing propaganda and then the same people complaint the windows are blocked would be complaint they haven’t protected the privacy of the kids.

There is oversight at both the federal and state level by the same people we trust to oversee child welfare other places.

So, what is your actual complaint about the way the kids are cared for other than that they won’t give you, a person with no relationship and no legitimate reason to be involved in the child’s lives, a bunch of info on them?

kcr

(15,317 posts)
87. Wal Mart with blacked out windows and no transparency is not caring for them.
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 01:17 PM
Jun 2018

So, no. This isn't two separate issues.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
88. So you don't have anything, in other words
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 01:24 PM
Jun 2018

If the inside of the Wal-Mart has been fixed up there is no reason it can’t be proper accommodation. We don’t have any indication it hasn’t been, and it’s been found acceptable to all the agencies who have inspected it.

You are just fixated on the fact that it has to be bad with no actual evidence.

Same for transparency. Your screaming “transparency” over and over but can’t define what you mean by itor how to have whatever it is that you want while maintaining and respecting the privacy of the kids. I’ve asked what you want for “transparency” and you can’t seem to define it, you just know you want it.

I get it now. You just want to be outraged andnit doesn’t matter if you have any facts worthy of outrage or not.

kcr

(15,317 posts)
89. What?
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 01:29 PM
Jun 2018
IF the inside has been fixed up? Yeah, exactly. If. Why should I just believe on faith that people who think an old, abandoned Wal Mart with blacked out windows is a fine place will have the inside all fixed up nice? Well, I'm going to need LOTS of hard proof on that one. The fact that they wouldn't even let a senator in is the reason I especially won't take it on faith and suspect the interior conditions are less than ideal.
 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
90. It's not on "faith". There are numerous levels of oversight
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 01:48 PM
Jun 2018

I trust that the Office of Refugee Resettlement, who waited with this agency doing this during the Obama Administration as well, is doing their job.

Are you saying they can’t be trusted? If so, why?

I trust that past that the child welfare people with the State of Texas and the local county who also oversee it are also doing their jobs.

Are you saying they can’t be trusted? If so, why?

The reason a Senator wasn’t let in when he showed up demanding to be is easy to understand and is been explained- the Office of Refugee Resettlement doesn’t allow any visitors that are not cleared and coordinated with them, period. That’s to protect the privacy of the children.

So I tend to have faith in government institutions. Maybe you don’t.

But to believe your version that means that this company run by people who are by all measures we can see very progressive people (the President was on the board of La Raza even) is engaged in a deep conspiracy to mistreat these kids for profit, even though it’s a nonprofit agency.

And that conspiracy goes back 20+ years and was active during the entire Obama administration as well when these facilities were opened and contracted for.

And that the entire staff of the Office of Refugee Resettlement who works with them is in on this conspiracy to mistreat children so a non-profit can somehow profit. Dated back into the Obama Administration.

And that all of the state and local child welfare workers who have oversight are also in on the conspiracy.

And that among all those people this conspiracy has been running for many years, to mistreat these kids and hide it.

All for profit, somehow, for a non-profit agency that has as its mission aiding immigrants.

And denial of entry to the senator was just them hiding they massive, years long ongoing conspiracy.

Is that it? Because for there to be mistreatment like you claim it would require that kind of scale of conspiracy.

Or maybe the truth is the senator was denied entry based on ORR policy like anyone else would be, and there are people weaving these insane conspiracy theories of mistreatment and children in cages and everything else with no proof just because it’s what they want to believe.

But for your version to be true all the people listed above would have to be engaged in a huge conspiracy to mistreat the children and hide it. Sorry, just not seeing that as realistic. I have faith that the folks in the federal level at ORR and working at the state and county level in child services are overwhelmingly good, caring people who wouldn’t tolerate abuse or mistreatment, and there is no way you could get enoug bad apples that nobody speaks up if it’s hapoening.

But enjoy your conspiracy theories.

And FWIW, nobody owes YOU proof. Your not a parent or relative of the kids and they owe you nothing. You any think the system has to cater to your demands for proof, but that’s not how it works. They have to prove to the people responsible for oversight, not to you. That’s why there are not windows for you to go leer at the kids like a museum display to satisfy your own curiosity.

The responsibility for them to prove things is to the authorities who do oversight, not to you. If you want believe it’s a massive conspiracy and all those people are in on it and only giving you personally unfettered access to everything will change your mind, well then your beyond logic.

syringis

(5,101 posts)
72. Hi Ferrets
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 10:59 AM
Jun 2018

Legally speaking : it is not kidnapping, it is sequestration.

It is weird, I didn't know a private entity could own and manage a detention center.

In the name of what ?

Satan has transmitted his crown to the new Master. He is no longer the evil's lord !


Ferrets are Cool

(21,107 posts)
78. This from the site of the organization with the blacked out windows...
Tue Jun 5, 2018, 11:44 AM
Jun 2018

"On a final note, it is important to understand that Casa Padre is not a detention facility. It is an unaccompanied minor shelter with many layers of oversight: it is licensed for childcare by the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services. All our shelters are regulated by state childcare licensing authorities as well as local and county authorities. Additionally, federal employees from ORR visit our shelters multiple times a week."

OK, where are those "federal employees", and not FAUX FUCKING NEWS, statements about the conditions in this DETENTION CENTER. And yes, it's a detention center. You can put a skirt on a pig and it's still a pig.
All I have seen is a statement from the WH demeaning the Senator.

White House deputy press secretary Hogan Gidley said Monday that Merkley was “irresponsibly spreading blatant lies” and “smearing hardworking, dedicated law enforcement officials” who deal with migrants at the border.

Gidley argued Monday that the senator’s refusal to back President Donald Trump’s hard-line agenda allowed criminals to enter and remain in the United States.

“No one is taking a public safety lecture from Sen. Merkley, whose own policies endanger children, empower human smugglers and drug cartels, and allow violent criminal aliens to flood into American communities,” the spokesman said in a written statement.

Typical WH deflection.

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