General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhen Two Control-Hungry Narcissists Meet, There Is Impasse.
Anything can happen, or nothing. Both believe they are right, and both believe they are capable of forcing their own position. From the initial handshake, when both attempt to assert their dominance, to the parting at the end of the meeting, it is a battle between two people who cannot see any point of view but their own.
This is the Trump/Kim meeting, in a nutshell. Both men are pathological narcissists. Both are used to getting their own way in any setting. Those attitudes do not make for a productive meeting. Each will feel insulted by the other and will feel the need for retaliation.
Trump has just left a meeting of national leaders where he was the odd man out and was not, apparently, shown the deference he always believes he is owed. Now, he'll be meeting another national leader who is, perhaps, even more narcissistic than himself. A leader who thinks nothing of having his opponents summarily executed.
I expect a show of smiles at the beginning, followed by a steady exchange of scowls and disagreement. Both need a positive conclusion to the meeting, but neither will be willing to give ground. I can't imagine that this will end well, unless...
The catch is this: Both men are subject to control by people who are more powerful than themselves. For Trump, that person is Putin. For Kim, it is Xi. It may well happen that both Kim and Trump have been informed of expectations and will have to accept their orders.
We shall see. Sadly, we will not be able to watch as this occur, and will only have official photos and a public statement once decisions have been made. We will not know what actually transpired.
underpants
(182,904 posts)https://www.democraticunderground.com/10181087917
but as you say both are getting direction from their overlords.
MineralMan
(146,333 posts)language. Both are likely to say almost anything, particularly when thwarted.
bdamomma
(63,923 posts)we should know what is being said if anything at all. Well, I would like to know are they going to say to each other or will they just gawk at each other and tRump lie as usual that it was a good meeting.
MineralMan
(146,333 posts)Official photos only. That's normally the way such things are done. Watching sausage being made is not good for the appetite.
bdamomma
(63,923 posts)nt
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,869 posts)Or, more accurately, to be perceived as having lost. For Trump, and most likely for Kim as well, everything from a round of golf to nuclear disarmament is a zero-sum game that he can't bear to lose, or for anyone to see that he lost. Kim often manages that problem by just killing people. Trump probably would like to be able to do that, too, but he manages by lying, and that has been fairly effective for him so far. If Trump and Kim are the puppets of Putin and Xi respectively, the question is whether the puppet masters can control their puppets. Trump doesn't think strategically, and in the moment will place the insatiable needs of his own ego even ahead of the desires of his handler. We will never get an accurate account of the meeting but the consequences will become evident sooner or later. There will either be an agreement by Kim to verifiably denuclearize, or there won't. I'm voting for the latter outcome. Spanky will try to spin whatever they come up with, but the way the meeting really went down can be figured out by the tone of his tweets. One thing about our Dear Leader is that he can't keep secrets.
MineralMan
(146,333 posts)We're going to see what happens, perhaps. Still, what is released publicly will almost certainly not be the entire story.
Squinch
(51,021 posts)MineralMan
(146,333 posts)However, one never can be sure.
ismnotwasm
(42,014 posts)That culturally, China is a huge influence on all of East nations, as well as a powerful influence. In fact, I had an professor whose opinion was that China considered itself a benevolent de facto leader over all the East. (Which is why we use culturally competent diplomats in negotiations because the expectations of cultures are quite different.)
There is zero chance that Trump wont offer, even inadvertently, some insult, and while Im reading reports that China is nervous I doubt this is the case, I believe China will have a better scope on the reaction of the North Korean government than we ever could.
If this is a path to peace, great, but I suspect this will lead to more economic erosion of American influence, because China is a big damn deal.
No NK will keep its nukes, because of course they will. What I know is Trump seems to screw up everything, and I have no expectation of this being different.
MineralMan
(146,333 posts)What's interesting about that is that Putin will be telling Trump what to do and Xi will be telling Kim. In the background, though, Russia and China are talking as allies, rather than adversaries. So, what advice will they be offering? What are their goals for the US and North Korea? Those questions are key, really.
Those and the question of whether Trump or Kim or both of them might go against advice and do something unpredictable. All of this is very complicated. I don't pretend to understand it. We're going to have to wait and see what transpires.