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hlthe2b

(102,298 posts)
2. the imminent legal scholar, George Will who graduated from...
Fri Jun 15, 2018, 10:48 PM
Jun 2018

....
.....

......

Ummm, no. He never went to law school. He is not a lawyer. He has a PhD in political bullshitting, however.

 

KCDebbie

(664 posts)
9. I'm committing that to memory to use on the next bozo that challenges me
Fri Jun 15, 2018, 11:57 PM
Jun 2018

with their false bravado...

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,748 posts)
5. Will isn't a lawyer; he's a professional pundit.
Fri Jun 15, 2018, 10:53 PM
Jun 2018

If Mueller's appointment actually violated federal law it surely would have been challenged in court by this time.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
6. No.
Fri Jun 15, 2018, 10:53 PM
Jun 2018

Maybe Will should have a talk with George Conway ... Kellyanne’s husband. He can explain it to him.


In short, there is no serious argument that Special Counsel Mueller’s appointment violates the Appointments Clause specifically or the separation of powers generally.

* * *

A final observation: It isn’t very surprising to see the president tweet a meritless legal position, because, as a non-lawyer, he wouldn’t know the difference between a good one and a bad one. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with lawyers making inventive and novel arguments on behalf of their clients, or on behalf of causes or people they support, if the arguments are well-grounded in law and fact, even if the arguments ultimately turn out to be wrong. But the “constitutional” arguments made against the special counsel do not meet that standard and had little more rigor than the tweet that promoted them. Such a lack of rigor, sadly, has been a disturbing trend in much of the politically charged public discourse about the law lately, and one that lawyers—regardless of their politics—owe a duty to abjure.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/terrible-arguments-against-constitutionality-mueller-investigation

But this the problem with people like Bill Maher. He puts the likes of George Will, he of the fake erudition, and let’s him pontificate. Unfortunately, Maher isn’t knowledgeable enough to challenge him beyond a random quip, so people watching think Will is right.

Cicada

(4,533 posts)
7. George Conway, kellyannes hubby, refuted Wills argument
Fri Jun 15, 2018, 11:26 PM
Jun 2018

The appointments clause of the constitution requires senate approval of “ officers” of the US. But “ officers” is not defined. Mark Levin argued Mueller is an “ officer” and therefore had to be confirmed by the senate. George Conway, a big time lawyer, published a rebuttal I found persuasive. I forget where but you can find it. Court opinions talk about what an “ officer” is for this purpose. One factor is whether you have a boss. If you have a boss above you you are not an officer. Mueller is an employee of the Department of Justice and can be given orders by the attorney general.

fmdaddio

(192 posts)
10. Thank you
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 12:04 AM
Jun 2018

I agree with an earlier post saying that Maher will bring on a George Will and let him go unchallenged. That's why I posted the question. I'm no lawyer and was looking for a valid rebuttal to this thinking. Your response goes a long way in helping in that effort.

DFW

(54,412 posts)
8. It has been a LONG time since George Will has had a valid argument
Fri Jun 15, 2018, 11:40 PM
Jun 2018

He just uses bigger words than Alex Jones, that's all.

Gothmog

(145,344 posts)
11. The Terrible Arguments Against the Constitutionality of the Mueller Investigation
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:22 AM
Jun 2018

This is from George Conway who is Kellyann' husband https://www.lawfareblog.com/terrible-arguments-against-constitutionality-mueller-investigation

This assumption is just wrong—uncomplicatedly, flatly wrong. It is true that, typically, the 93 (not 96) U.S. attorneys are presidentially nominated and Senate-confirmed. But Congress has established an alternative method of appointment. Title 28 U.S.C. § 546 provides that, until the Senate confirms a presidential nominee, U.S. attorney vacancies can be filled for up to 120 days by an appointment made by the attorney general and then indefinitely by local district courts. Such non-presidential, non-Senate-confirmed appointees are, as one court of appeals has put it, “fully-empowered United States Attorneys, … not subordinates assuming the role of ‘Acting’ United States Attorney.” And such fully-empowered, non-presidentially-appointed U.S. attorneys are not all that uncommon. Today, the sitting United States attorneys in two of the most important judicial districts in the country—the Southern and Eastern Districts of New York—were appointed by the judges of those districts under Section 546(d).

And so “the Congress … by … vest[ing] the Appointment” of U.S. attorneys “in the Courts of law” and “in the Heads of Departments,” obviously recognized that U.S. attorneys are “inferior officers.” But Congress is not the only branch of the government to have reached this conclusion. In 1978, the question was expressly put to the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel. OLC’s conclusion: U.S. attorneys are inferior officers, because the law “authorizes the Attorney General to direct all U.S. Attorneys in the discharge of their duties.”

Not to be left out, members of the third branch—which has made a lot of these appointments—have also agreed. The Supreme Court has never squarely addressed the point under the Appointments Clause, but in discussing presidential removal power in Myers v. United States, the Supreme Court specifically referred to “a United States attorney” as an example of “an inferior officer.” More recently, in Morrison v. Olson, the high court approvingly noted how “Congress itself has vested the power to make [U.S. attorney] interim appointments in the district courts” under 28 U.S.C. § 546(d), and observed that “[l]ower courts have also upheld [those] interim judicial appointments of United States Attorneys” under the Appointments Clause. These lower courts include two federal courts of appeals, one of which rejected an Appointments Clause challenge to a U.S. attorney who had served under a judicial appointment for more than six years.

Accordingly, there is no serious dispute: U.S. attorneys are inferior officers. So if what Robert Mueller is really doing is, as Calabresi suggests, “behav[ing] like the [93] U.S. Attorneys,” then Calabresi’s argument immediately collapses on itself. Mueller is an inferior officer, just as U.S. attorneys are.

But it is even worse than that for Calabresi’s thesis—Mueller’s Office of Special Counsel appears, on its face, to be inferior in size and authority than many, if not most, U.S. attorney’s offices throughout the nation.

As the president is wont to point out these days, Mueller’s office consists of few more than a dozen lawyers—roughly the size of the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the District of Wyoming—and the scope of his work is quite narrow. Contrast some of the larger U.S. attorney’s offices—such as that of the court-appointed U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York. That office comprises roughly 220 lawyers, and the scope of its work is breathtaking—covering, just for starters, “domestic and international terrorism, white collar crime, securities and commodities fraud, public corruption, cybercrime, narcotics and arms trafficking, gang violence, organized crime, and civil rights violations.” If the U.S. attorney who runs that office is an “inferior officer,” then so too is Robert Mueller.

George Conway is a very smart lawyer and this is a well written article

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
12. Hey George Will! If you're looking for a violation of federal law
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:25 AM
Jun 2018

Look no further than President Trump ripping up his papers to signal to his toadies that This Meeting Is Over or his deleting of inconvenient tweets.

But you're not really concerned about violations of federal law are you, George?

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