General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTo anybody who wants to invoke the Godwin law, let me say this...
...We have an Attorney General who recites an excerpt of a Bible passage that was used by slavery advocates to rationalize slavery prior to and during the American Civil War. This same excerpt from the same passage was used by Nazis to rationalize the draconian, anti-Semitic laws imposed on Germans during the 1930's.
We are now taking children and putting them into camps by pulling them away from their parents, some of whom have committed no crime greater than a misdemeanor by crossing the border. There is no law in America that requires separating children if a parent commits a misdemeanor. Further, many of the adults have committed no offense at all, as they are asylum seekers, complying with all US and International laws on asylum. Even if the asylum seekers cross at the wrong location and surrender to a boarder guard and ask for asylum, to use that technicality to charge the parent and to take the children away is the act of barbarism.
But, to my original point, credible and verified reports are coming out of the camps that in order to separate the children from their parents, boarder guards are "tricking" the individuals by saying the child is being taken away, temporarily, in order to take a shower or a bath. The child is then removed and sent to a separate facility (camp) and not returned. Does this action sound familiar? It certainly does to me.
I can't believe this is America in 2018. I can't believe that 40% of Americans agree with this no good fucking Fascist wannabee Dictator. "The free press is the enemy of the people". Undermining our Judicial system. Making alliances with Dictatorships and breaking them with Democracies.
I am not the frog in the proverbial pot of water, unaware of the slowly rising temperature until the pot boils and it's too late. We have two more chances to end this nightmare Democratically, the mid-terms in 2018 in order to slow down this run away train and the Presidential election in 2020 to end this nightmare permanently. We can not bicker among ourselves. We have to stand together and vote for Democrats at every level. I don't give a fuck what type of Democrat we elect. In every General Election, everywhere, we must work as hard as we can for the nominee. After we win in 2018 and 2020, we can fight each other over the direction of the party, but until then, we are in "code red". Act like our lives depend upon these next two election cycles, because they do.
Guilded Lilly
(5,591 posts)ramblin_dave
(1,546 posts)louis c
(8,652 posts)NutmegYankee
(16,200 posts)inappropriate.
First, let me get this Donald Trump issue out of the way: If youre thoughtful about it and show some real awareness of history, go ahead and refer to Hitler or Nazis when you talk about Trump. Or any other politician.
My Facebook timeline and Twitter feed have been blowing up lately. And whenever that happens, its almost always because someones making comparisons to Hitler or Nazis or the Holocaust somewhere. Sure enough, as Trump pontificates about immigrants or ethnic or religious minorities, with scarcely less subtlety than certain early 20th-century political aspirants in Europe did, people on the Internet feel compelled to ask me what I think about it.
Why? Simple: Because 25 years ago, when the Internet was still a pup, I came up with Godwins Law. In its original form, Godwins Law goes like this: As an online discussion continues, the probability of a reference or comparison to Hitler or Nazis approaches 1.
[Trump says hes not bothered by comparisons to Hitler]
Invoking Hitler or Nazis (or World War II or the Holocaust) is common in public life these days, both in the United States and around the world, and it has been for quite a while. Back in 1990, I set out half-seriously and half-whimsically to do something about it.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170209163428/https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/12/14/sure-call-trump-a-nazi-just-make-sure-you-know-what-youre-talking-about/?utm_term=.3068c126ef3b
volstork
(5,402 posts)Especially this:
We can not bicker among ourselves. We have to stand together and vote for Democrats at every level. I don't give a fuck what type of Democrat we elect.
Duppers
(28,125 posts)K&R
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)It is time to pay very close attention to everything ever said by a candidate and their entire history. Tolerating things said to simply generate a headline, press event or social media sound bite is exactly why we have the great orange plague (gop, trump, 45...).
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel." - Patrick Henry
GusBob
(7,286 posts)"Sure he is bad, but Hitler killed 6 million people"
As I pointed out in another thread, Hitler did not arise in a vacuum and all of a sudden 6 million people were gassed. It was only after he acieved full power which took awhile
So do we need a Godwins law that applies to the Hitler of 1933-1939?
It was incremental, as an example, the first people the Nazis tried to exterminate were mentally disabled people. They learned the gas chambers practicing on them. And yes they separated them from their families, killed them, and then lied to their families about the cause of death
And another point to be said is: it doesn't take the gas chamber to eliminate Trumps undesirables:
- you can let the NRA flourish and the gun slaughter continue
- you can let people die in Hurricanes
- you can let cops gun down unarmed civilians
- you can take away health care and pre-existing condition coverage
Trump only cares about money. He wants poor people to die in his holocaust
And you are right Louis c, if we allow it to happen, knowing history then shame on us
world wide wally
(21,744 posts)mountain grammy
(26,626 posts)as strenuously as I can. Godwin was set aside on Nov 9th 2016. The orange bastard is evil incarnate and must be stopped by any means necessary.
louis c
(8,652 posts)First off, thanks to all who recommended this page. It is heartening that so many people here at DU agree on this point. Hopefully, you can use these thoughts to convince persuadable friends to join our cause.
I have found additional info on this subject:
<snip>Romans 13 has a history of being used by government officials in defense of their decisions or edicts. The Rev. Rob Saler, executive director for the Center for Pastoral Excellence at Indianapolis' Christian Theological Seminary, said the verses were used by Lutherans in Nazi Germany to justify supporting Adolf Hitler.
"Romans 13, for a long time, has been appealed to in an incorrect way, as a justification for 'Obey the laws, no matter what,'" he said. "Whether they're just or not. I dont want to be too extreme, but ... in Nazi Germany, Lutherans, for the most part, supported Hitler and they used Romans 13 to validate that."
In an interview with The Washington Post, John Fea, a professor of American history at Messiah College at Pennsylvania, said the verse was also used to support slavery in the 1840s and 1850s.
"It is invoked by defenders of the South or defenders of slavery to ward off abolitionists who believed that slavery is wrong," he said. "I mean, this is the same argument that Southern slaveholders and the advocates of a Southern way of life made.<snip>
Link to entire article;
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/sessions-cites-bible-verse-to-defend-trumps-immigration-policy-raises-christians-ire/ar-AAyIl74?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=DELLDHP17
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,492 posts)If the Trump administration wants to use the Bible to defend its immigration policy, here are some other extracts to consider
Link: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/15/bible-jeff-sessions-sarah-sanders-trump-administration
(snip)
-----
There have been various debates over the years as to how exactly Romans 13 should be interpreted, but the larger point is that no matter how you interpret the bible, it should have absolutely no place in modern law-making. You can, after all, find a bible-verse to justify just about anything, including turning your wife into salt. If the Trump administration does want to cherry-pick from the Bible to justify its policies, however, here are a few extracts it might want to consider:
(1 of 6)
Exodus 12:49
The same law applies both to the native-born and to the foreigner residing among you.
I'm no longer a religious person, but these might come in handy if one should need to tie into a Trumpster at work or in a store!...
Stonepounder
(4,033 posts)So much of their 'doctrine' is from the Old Testament. The Old Testament was written before the birth of Jesus of Nazareth - 'The Christ'. Since a Christian is one who supposedly follows the teachings of Christ, and since the Old Testament was written before Christ, then logically it really isn't part of the Christian cannon.
Then there is the fact that none of the New Testament (that part of the Bible that was written after the birth of Jesus was written by him. It was written by various folks who had either been apostles or friends of apostles or friends of friends of apostles. But the main thrust of the New Testament was teaching love, acceptance, love one another, be good to one another, take care of the poor, the downtrodden, the foreigner, and so on. None of which is practiced by modern day Evangelicals!
I could go on for pages. But you get my drift.
Cha
(297,323 posts)louis c
(8,652 posts)Today is Sunday. how will parishioners act today as they enter their houses of worship.
Is the God they worship merciful and is it a commandment to treat others as you would yourself?
Let's see if all our religious zealots of every religion and denomination really "practice what they preach.'
alterfurz
(2,474 posts)You're doing it right now. -- Amy Siskind
louis c
(8,652 posts)I'm a trade unionist. I would have been rounded up and imprisoned very, very early during the Third Reich.
Link;
https://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/nazi-germany/trade-unions-and-nazi-germany/