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louis c

(8,652 posts)
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 08:00 AM Jun 2018

To anybody who wants to invoke the Godwin law, let me say this...

...We have an Attorney General who recites an excerpt of a Bible passage that was used by slavery advocates to rationalize slavery prior to and during the American Civil War. This same excerpt from the same passage was used by Nazis to rationalize the draconian, anti-Semitic laws imposed on Germans during the 1930's.

We are now taking children and putting them into camps by pulling them away from their parents, some of whom have committed no crime greater than a misdemeanor by crossing the border. There is no law in America that requires separating children if a parent commits a misdemeanor. Further, many of the adults have committed no offense at all, as they are asylum seekers, complying with all US and International laws on asylum. Even if the asylum seekers cross at the wrong location and surrender to a boarder guard and ask for asylum, to use that technicality to charge the parent and to take the children away is the act of barbarism.

But, to my original point, credible and verified reports are coming out of the camps that in order to separate the children from their parents, boarder guards are "tricking" the individuals by saying the child is being taken away, temporarily, in order to take a shower or a bath. The child is then removed and sent to a separate facility (camp) and not returned. Does this action sound familiar? It certainly does to me.

I can't believe this is America in 2018. I can't believe that 40% of Americans agree with this no good fucking Fascist wannabee Dictator. "The free press is the enemy of the people". Undermining our Judicial system. Making alliances with Dictatorships and breaking them with Democracies.

I am not the frog in the proverbial pot of water, unaware of the slowly rising temperature until the pot boils and it's too late. We have two more chances to end this nightmare Democratically, the mid-terms in 2018 in order to slow down this run away train and the Presidential election in 2020 to end this nightmare permanently. We can not bicker among ourselves. We have to stand together and vote for Democrats at every level. I don't give a fuck what type of Democrat we elect. In every General Election, everywhere, we must work as hard as we can for the nominee. After we win in 2018 and 2020, we can fight each other over the direction of the party, but until then, we are in "code red". Act like our lives depend upon these next two election cycles, because they do.

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To anybody who wants to invoke the Godwin law, let me say this... (Original Post) louis c Jun 2018 OP
K&R with every ounce of strength in my damaged knees. Guilded Lilly Jun 2018 #1
To be exact, it's Godwin's law ramblin_dave Jun 2018 #2
I'll take an 'o' away and change rule to law. Thanks louis c Jun 2018 #3
The inventor of "Godwin's Law" about Hitler comparisons on the Internet says they're not always NutmegYankee Jun 2018 #4
Excellent rant. volstork Jun 2018 #5
Bravo! Duppers Jun 2018 #6
K&R HAB911 Jun 2018 #7
K&R discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2018 #8
The latest ploy to protect Trump from Godwin on Du goes like this: GusBob Jun 2018 #9
Exactly. paleotn Jun 2018 #13
If we don't learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it world wide wally Jun 2018 #10
K & R mountain grammy Jun 2018 #11
K&R paleotn Jun 2018 #12
Additional support for my OP louis c Jun 2018 #14
Louis, I think this article is appropriate.. KY_EnviroGuy Jun 2018 #15
Understand that most Evangelicals are NOT "Christians" Stonepounder Jun 2018 #16
Thank you, louis Cha Jun 2018 #17
You are welcome louis c Jun 2018 #18
Wonder what you would have been doing in Germany, as Hitler rose to power? alterfurz Jun 2018 #19
I know my history... louis c Jun 2018 #20

NutmegYankee

(16,200 posts)
4. The inventor of "Godwin's Law" about Hitler comparisons on the Internet says they're not always
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 08:10 AM
Jun 2018

inappropriate.

First, let me get this Donald Trump issue out of the way: If you’re thoughtful about it and show some real awareness of history, go ahead and refer to Hitler or Nazis when you talk about Trump. Or any other politician.

My Facebook timeline and Twitter feed have been blowing up lately. And whenever that happens, it’s almost always because someone’s making comparisons to Hitler or Nazis or the Holocaust somewhere. Sure enough, as Trump pontificates about immigrants or ethnic or religious minorities, with scarcely less subtlety than certain early 20th-century political aspirants in Europe did, people on the Internet feel compelled to ask me what I think about it.

Why? Simple: Because 25 years ago, when the Internet was still a pup, I came up with Godwin’s Law. In its original form, Godwin’s Law goes like this: “As an online discussion continues, the probability of a reference or comparison to Hitler or Nazis approaches 1.”

[Trump says he’s not bothered by comparisons to Hitler]

Invoking Hitler or Nazis (or World War II or the Holocaust) is common in public life these days, both in the United States and around the world, and it has been for quite a while. Back in 1990, I set out — half-seriously and half-whimsically — to do something about it.


https://web.archive.org/web/20170209163428/https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/12/14/sure-call-trump-a-nazi-just-make-sure-you-know-what-youre-talking-about/?utm_term=.3068c126ef3b

volstork

(5,402 posts)
5. Excellent rant.
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 08:30 AM
Jun 2018

Especially this:

We can not bicker among ourselves. We have to stand together and vote for Democrats at every level. I don't give a fuck what type of Democrat we elect.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,479 posts)
8. K&R
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:17 AM
Jun 2018

It is time to pay very close attention to everything ever said by a candidate and their entire history. Tolerating things said to simply generate a headline, press event or social media sound bite is exactly why we have the great orange plague (gop, trump, 45...).

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel." - Patrick Henry

GusBob

(7,286 posts)
9. The latest ploy to protect Trump from Godwin on Du goes like this:
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:32 AM
Jun 2018

"Sure he is bad, but Hitler killed 6 million people"

As I pointed out in another thread, Hitler did not arise in a vacuum and all of a sudden 6 million people were gassed. It was only after he acieved full power which took awhile

So do we need a Godwins law that applies to the Hitler of 1933-1939?

It was incremental, as an example, the first people the Nazis tried to exterminate were mentally disabled people. They learned the gas chambers practicing on them. And yes they separated them from their families, killed them, and then lied to their families about the cause of death

And another point to be said is: it doesn't take the gas chamber to eliminate Trumps undesirables:
- you can let the NRA flourish and the gun slaughter continue
- you can let people die in Hurricanes
- you can let cops gun down unarmed civilians
- you can take away health care and pre-existing condition coverage

Trump only cares about money. He wants poor people to die in his holocaust

And you are right Louis c, if we allow it to happen, knowing history then shame on us

paleotn

(17,931 posts)
12. K&R
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:50 AM
Jun 2018

as strenuously as I can. Godwin was set aside on Nov 9th 2016. The orange bastard is evil incarnate and must be stopped by any means necessary.

 

louis c

(8,652 posts)
14. Additional support for my OP
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:56 AM
Jun 2018

First off, thanks to all who recommended this page. It is heartening that so many people here at DU agree on this point. Hopefully, you can use these thoughts to convince persuadable friends to join our cause.

I have found additional info on this subject:

<snip>Romans 13 has a history of being used by government officials in defense of their decisions or edicts. The Rev. Rob Saler, executive director for the Center for Pastoral Excellence at Indianapolis' Christian Theological Seminary, said the verses were used by Lutherans in Nazi Germany to justify supporting Adolf Hitler.

"Romans 13, for a long time, has been appealed to in an incorrect way, as a justification for 'Obey the laws, no matter what,'" he said. "Whether they're just or not. I don’t want to be too extreme, but ... in Nazi Germany, Lutherans, for the most part, supported Hitler and they used Romans 13 to validate that."

In an interview with The Washington Post, John Fea, a professor of American history at Messiah College at Pennsylvania, said the verse was also used to support slavery in the 1840s and 1850s.

"It is invoked by defenders of the South or defenders of slavery to ward off abolitionists who believed that slavery is wrong," he said. "I mean, this is the same argument that Southern slaveholders and the advocates of a Southern way of life made.”<snip>

Link to entire article;
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/sessions-cites-bible-verse-to-defend-trumps-immigration-policy-raises-christians-ire/ar-AAyIl74?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=DELLDHP17

KY_EnviroGuy

(14,492 posts)
15. Louis, I think this article is appropriate..
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:46 AM
Jun 2018
Six Bible verses Jeff Sessions should read as he separates migrant families
If the Trump administration wants to use the Bible to defend its immigration policy, here are some other extracts to consider

Link: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/15/bible-jeff-sessions-sarah-sanders-trump-administration

(snip)
America isn’t a theocracy; there is supposed to be, in the words of Thomas Jefferson, “a wall of separation between church and state”. The Trump administration doesn’t appear to have got that 200-year-old old memo, however, and seems intent on turning the country into Gilead.
-----
There have been various debates over the years as to how exactly Romans 13 should be interpreted, but the larger point is that no matter how you interpret the bible, it should have absolutely no place in modern law-making. You can, after all, find a bible-verse to justify just about anything, including turning your wife into salt. If the Trump administration does want to cherry-pick from the Bible to justify its policies, however, here are a few extracts it might want to consider:
(1 of 6)
Exodus 12:49
“The same law applies both to the native-born and to the foreigner residing among you.”

I'm no longer a religious person, but these might come in handy if one should need to tie into a Trumpster at work or in a store!...

Stonepounder

(4,033 posts)
16. Understand that most Evangelicals are NOT "Christians"
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 11:10 AM
Jun 2018

So much of their 'doctrine' is from the Old Testament. The Old Testament was written before the birth of Jesus of Nazareth - 'The Christ'. Since a Christian is one who supposedly follows the teachings of Christ, and since the Old Testament was written before Christ, then logically it really isn't part of the Christian cannon.

Then there is the fact that none of the New Testament (that part of the Bible that was written after the birth of Jesus was written by him. It was written by various folks who had either been apostles or friends of apostles or friends of friends of apostles. But the main thrust of the New Testament was teaching love, acceptance, love one another, be good to one another, take care of the poor, the downtrodden, the foreigner, and so on. None of which is practiced by modern day Evangelicals!

I could go on for pages. But you get my drift.

 

louis c

(8,652 posts)
18. You are welcome
Sun Jun 17, 2018, 06:30 AM
Jun 2018

Today is Sunday. how will parishioners act today as they enter their houses of worship.

Is the God they worship merciful and is it a commandment to treat others as you would yourself?

Let's see if all our religious zealots of every religion and denomination really "practice what they preach.'

alterfurz

(2,474 posts)
19. Wonder what you would have been doing in Germany, as Hitler rose to power?
Sun Jun 17, 2018, 07:50 AM
Jun 2018

You're doing it right now. -- Amy Siskind

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