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LiberalArkie

(15,719 posts)
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:50 AM Jun 2018

We're all getting dumber, says science


Researchers at Norway’s Ragnar Frisch Centre for Economic Research now have scientific proof of something we’ve long suspsected—we’re all getting dumber.
In their paper, “Flynn effect and its reversal are both environmentally caused,” which was published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Bernt Bratsberg and Ole Rogeberg report that IQ scores have been steadily dropping since the 1970s.

Snip

https://www.fastcompany.com/40584777/were-all-getting-dumber-says-science

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2018/06/05/1718793115
36 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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We're all getting dumber, says science (Original Post) LiberalArkie Jun 2018 OP
The GOP True Dough Jun 2018 #1
Maybe, but the research was done in Norway. LiberalArkie Jun 2018 #2
Interesting but PNAS isn't peer-reviewed Bradshaw3 Jun 2018 #3
Are you sure? muriel_volestrangler Jun 2018 #9
OK, it is more accurate to say they have volunteers Bradshaw3 Jun 2018 #28
Whut? braddy Jun 2018 #4
I blame smart phones Ron Obvious Jun 2018 #5
And other devices. lpbk2713 Jun 2018 #6
But the reversal began decades ago. Igel Jun 2018 #7
I also blame the dumbing down of popular media and entertainment Ron Obvious Jun 2018 #23
Again, your examples are American examples, the results are not limited to America CreekDog Jun 2018 #24
I also travel a lot and have noticed the same trend in other countries Ron Obvious Jun 2018 #25
Well given that knowledge is power malaise Jun 2018 #8
I've been saying that for 30 years. Hayduke Bomgarte Jun 2018 #10
Air and water pollution are contributing factors. nt earthshine Jun 2018 #11
And and water quality world wide is better than in the 60's, 70's LiberalArkie Jun 2018 #13
One look out my window at the dirty sky says you are wrong. earthshine Jun 2018 #16
You are wrong. former9thward Jun 2018 #17
Links to prove your point, please. It should be easy since you used the word ALL. earthshine Jun 2018 #19
Anything I show you, you will just dismiss. former9thward Jun 2018 #21
Try me. I have been into astronomy all my life. Links please. earthshine Jun 2018 #29
"Masters Thesis: New Ways of Teaching Science " former9thward Jun 2018 #30
You create a logical fallacy. earthshine Jun 2018 #31
The article you linked is a joke. former9thward Jun 2018 #33
The article says it is a causitive agent, not an absolute truism for all people all the time. earthshine Jun 2018 #36
depends on the pollutant you're referring to CreekDog Jun 2018 #26
case in point. mopinko Jun 2018 #20
Not real science! You sound like a GOPer saying they see snow so no global warming! nt USALiberal Jun 2018 #34
The study points to a lack of reading as a primary factor. procon Jun 2018 #12
And and even TV was great also. LiberalArkie Jun 2018 #15
When it comes to common sense, yes people are getting dumber. shockey80 Jun 2018 #14
Harvard School Of Pubic Health - CO2 Level Directly Impacts Cognitive Skills hatrack Jun 2018 #18
Good lord d_r Jun 2018 #22
Best reply yet! Thank you! LongTomH Jun 2018 #35
The destruction of public education. roamer65 Jun 2018 #27
By reading this, I feel dumber already nolabels Jun 2018 #32

Bradshaw3

(7,522 posts)
3. Interesting but PNAS isn't peer-reviewed
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 11:39 AM
Jun 2018

Would like to see more studies in peer-reviewed publications on the subject.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,322 posts)
9. Are you sure?
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 12:02 PM
Jun 2018
PNAS strives to publish only the highest quality scientific research, and papers undergo rigorous peer review and approval by an NAS member before publication.

http://www.pnas.org/page/about

and the paper is marked as 'reviewed':

Edited by Richard E. Nisbett, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI, and approved May 14, 2018 (received for review October 27, 2017)

Bradshaw3

(7,522 posts)
28. OK, it is more accurate to say they have volunteers
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 03:07 PM
Jun 2018

who do reviews. The science researchers I worked with published articles in PNAS but getting published in a journal from their discilpine is what their goal was because those are reiewed by the top researchers in the field. They considered PNAS more of a clearinghouse. I don't know about the reviewers at PNAS but if you read all of the link you posted they call for volunteers. Perhaps they are just as qualified but as far as this study, like I wrote, I would want to see more research that appears in journals from the discipline.

Igel

(35,320 posts)
7. But the reversal began decades ago.
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 11:56 AM
Jun 2018

So, what started in the '70s and has continued to the present?

 

Ron Obvious

(6,261 posts)
23. I also blame the dumbing down of popular media and entertainment
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 01:30 PM
Jun 2018

Just turn on a TV and see how it apparently caters to ignorant morons with no attention span.

Hell, even NPR is nothing like it was a mere 10 years ago. All short, trivial little human interest pieces all day long: short, undemanding segments and "populair" entertainment.

There's also hardly one movie a year that might tempt me to the theatre.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
24. Again, your examples are American examples, the results are not limited to America
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 01:33 PM
Jun 2018

But you're smarter than me because you don't have a smartphone.

 

Ron Obvious

(6,261 posts)
25. I also travel a lot and have noticed the same trend in other countries
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 01:35 PM
Jun 2018

TV is more and more moronic everywhere, following the imbecility of US commercial media. Lowest common denominator chasing probably accounts for a lot of it.

malaise

(269,063 posts)
8. Well given that knowledge is power
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 11:58 AM
Jun 2018

It is clear that there are folks who want to deny power to the people. It will be up to the people.

Hayduke Bomgarte

(1,965 posts)
10. I've been saying that for 30 years.
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 12:10 PM
Jun 2018

I've been around more people than I can count, in my various jobs, so stupid, that I'd wonder who tied their shoes for them each day. I'd estimate, by my own standards that 43% of uhmurkins, matching the number of drumpf supporters. I blame the cuts to education that seemed to pick up steam in the ronnie raygun era. Classes that teach or exercise critical thought have been largely systematically eliminated. Civics classes for one. Civics was required when I was in high school. years later. when my son was in high school civics was an elective, in the same school. Now I'm told it isn't even offered anymore. Schools are little more than day care centers, sometimes doubling as shooting galleries these days.

When I was in school an IQ of 104 was considered average. Now I'm told the average has dipped into the 90's, and yet 43% can't meet that standard.

The actions and policies of the thugs are squarely to blame, and almost half the country are too damn stupid to grasp this fact.

It will get worse. The pugs cultivate stupidity and ignorance because that is their base.

 

earthshine

(1,642 posts)
16. One look out my window at the dirty sky says you are wrong.
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 12:44 PM
Jun 2018

One taste of this tap water says you are wrong.

 

earthshine

(1,642 posts)
19. Links to prove your point, please. It should be easy since you used the word ALL.
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 01:00 PM
Jun 2018

Then I'll show you pictures of the Bronx, Flint, rivers in China, smog in LA.

I've recently been in both NC and in NY for extended periods. Years ago, one could see the fainter stars. Now, there's just a haze up there.


former9thward

(32,028 posts)
21. Anything I show you, you will just dismiss.
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 01:07 PM
Jun 2018

You have already said it. Anti-science people are like that.

BTW your problem with the stars is not air pollution, it is light pollution. That is what cuts out our ability to see stars. That type of pollution certainly has increased but has nothing to do with dirty air.

 

earthshine

(1,642 posts)
29. Try me. I have been into astronomy all my life. Links please.
Sun Jun 17, 2018, 06:01 AM
Jun 2018

Master of Science in Technology Studies, here.

Masters Thesis: New Ways of Teaching Science

It should be easy. You said ALL.

I know the dif between light pollution and perpetual haze. I see how the sky has changed in 10-20 years. There are places I go where light pollution is minimal.

Even if it is cleaner in the US, India and China put out plenty of new sources of pollution.

No links, no believe you.

former9thward

(32,028 posts)
30. "Masters Thesis: New Ways of Teaching Science "
Sun Jun 17, 2018, 09:49 AM
Jun 2018

Well, at least you had an appropriate title...

Now let's see. The OP said we are getting dumber since the 1970s. And you said "Air and water pollution are contributing factors". Since we are 1) getting dumber since the 1970s and 2) air and water pollution are contributing factors, that means 3) air and water pollution must be increasing since the 1970s.

Now since you know "New ways of teaching science" why don't you show where 1) air and water pollution are increasing since the 1970s and 2) how that has contributed to us getting dumber.

 

earthshine

(1,642 posts)
31. You create a logical fallacy.
Sun Jun 17, 2018, 10:44 AM
Jun 2018

You say that I said statements 1 and 2 must imply 3.

I actually said 3 and 2 imply 1. Do you see the difference?

Here's a link...

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jun/13/air-pollution-linked-to-increased-mental-illness-in-children

You got a link for me?

former9thward

(32,028 posts)
33. The article you linked is a joke.
Sun Jun 17, 2018, 11:03 AM
Jun 2018

And of course something in the Guardian which is not a science journal. If the premise of the article -- air pollution causes mental illness -- was correct then everyone must of been insane in the 1950s when air pollution was orders of magnitude worse than it is now.

Link which shows world air pollution going down:

https://ourworldindata.org/air-pollution

Link showing the same for the U.S.

https://gispub.epa.gov/air/trendsreport/2017/#highlights

 

earthshine

(1,642 posts)
36. The article says it is a causitive agent, not an absolute truism for all people all the time.
Sun Jun 17, 2018, 03:01 PM
Jun 2018

> everyone must of been insane in the 1950s

No. This is an abuse of basic logic. SOME does not imply ALL.

> orders of magnitude worse than it is now.

Your article does not show "orders of mag," but rather LINEAR trends and for SOME pollutants.

Also, it speaks solely in terms of present-day "emissions." It does not deal with accumulation over the years.

Pollution is cumulative.

Also, the article does not account for events like Fukushima or ongoing processes like strip mining and methane exfiltration from oil wells, or Houston's oil refineries being flooded out from the recent hurricane.

And then there's the water. Lead in the water, such as in Flint, is known to cause brain damage.




procon

(15,805 posts)
12. The study points to a lack of reading as a primary factor.
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 12:26 PM
Jun 2018
The more likely culprit is our Cheeto-eating, binge-watching, video game-playing, never-reading lifestyles.



Reading! I thank my parents for instilling a love of reading in me and my siblings, but do parents bother reading to their kids?

My parents always read to us, our house was filled with books of all genres, they bought us books as presents, and my dad insisted on a weekly Storytime. He did dramatic readings from classical literature and we learned the works of Homer, Aristotle, Plato and Marcus Aurelius. He read books in character, bring Shakespeare alive, or taking us into the drawing room of the Bronte Sisters, and his Southern drawl made see Mark Twain's world as it was. He teased us with installments of Horatio Hornblower, Sherlock Holmes, Don Quixote, and Long John Silver, and we argued over would would get to read those books first.

Reading gives us much more than the power of knowledge, it grows our vocabulary and further helps with comprehension far more than just watching the TV.

LiberalArkie

(15,719 posts)
15. And and even TV was great also.
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 12:35 PM
Jun 2018

I remember Mr Wizard, and a lot of science and documentaries on network TV.

We all had a large intake or real sugar in the eras before the 70's. The report said IQ peaked in the 70's and then started dropping.

The report talked about the world wide IQ is dropping, so you can't point it to what we do here.

 

shockey80

(4,379 posts)
14. When it comes to common sense, yes people are getting dumber.
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 12:32 PM
Jun 2018

You don't even need a study to figure that one out. Look at the Trump voters. Many of them are highly intelligent and they don't have a lick of commonsense.

hatrack

(59,587 posts)
18. Harvard School Of Pubic Health - CO2 Level Directly Impacts Cognitive Skills
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 12:57 PM
Jun 2018

In a landmark public health finding, a new study from the Harvard School of Public Health finds that carbon dioxide (CO2) has a direct and negative impact on human cognition and decision-making. These impacts have been observed at CO2 levels that most Americans — and their children — are routinely exposed to today inside classrooms, offices, homes, planes, and cars.

Carbon dioxide levels are inevitably higher indoors than the baseline set by the outdoor air used for ventilation, a baseline that is rising at an accelerating rate thanks to human activity, especially the burning of fossil fuels. So this seminal research has equally great importance for climate policy, providing an entirely new public health impetus for keeping global CO2 levels as low as possible.

In a series of articles, I will examine the implications for public health both today (indoors) as well as in the future (indoors and out) due to rising CO2 levels. This series is the result of a year-long investigation for Climate Progress and my new Oxford University Press book coming out next week, “Climate Change: What Everyone Needs to Know.” This investigative report is built on dozens of studies and literature reviews as well as exclusive interviews with many of the world’s leading experts in public health and indoor air quality, including authors of both studies.

Significantly, the Harvard study confirms the findings of a little-publicized 2012 Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (LBNL) study, “Is CO2 an Indoor Pollutant? Direct Effects of Low-to-Moderate CO2 Concentrations on Human Decision-Making Performance.” That study found “statistically significant and meaningful reductions in decision-making performance” in test subjects as CO2 levels rose from a baseline of 600 parts per million (ppm) to 1000 ppm and 2500 ppm.

EDIT

https://thinkprogress.org/exclusive-elevated-co2-levels-directly-affect-human-cognition-new-harvard-study-shows-2748e7378941/


Link to original study:
https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/15-10037/


Link to 2012 study:
https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/1104789/



d_r

(6,907 posts)
22. Good lord
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 01:27 PM
Jun 2018

we can see it right here as people are wuzzling the report from some clickbait web site called fastcompany.com rather than reading and thinking about the original report.

This is a study concerning the slow down of the Flynn Effect. The Flynn Effect is the consistent, almost linear, growth in scores from IQ tests over the 20th century. Due to the Flynn Effect, tests have had to be renormed so that standardized scores continue to have a mean of 100 and a normal distribution. There is some evidence that the Flynn Effect has run its course in some developed nations, including Norway. The simplest explanation for this, if it is indeed the case, is regression to the mean. Obviously. In the current study, the authors examine correlates of IQ scores to determine if the slow down in the Flynn Effect in those industrialized nations is due to between-family factors - such as environmental changes like water and air quality - or within-family factors, and the data that they report suggest that the observed slow down in the Flynn Effect is due to within-family factors. That lead the author of the click bait article to suggest that within-family factors are cheeto-eating, binge watching, etc. "lifestyles," but, frankly, I am not sure how the author reached that conclusion or why these "lifestyles" would vary within families. As the authors of the original work state RIGHT IN THE ABSTRACT "The analysis controls for all factors shared by siblings and finds no evidence for prominent causal hypotheses of the decline implicating genes and environmental factors that vary between, but not within, families."

roamer65

(36,745 posts)
27. The destruction of public education.
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 01:37 PM
Jun 2018

Through defunding and lower standards.

The right wingers want all of your kids in religious madrasses.

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