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SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 03:13 PM Jun 2018

Vaccines and the Liberal Mind

by Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

Instead of demanding blue-ribbon safety science and encouraging honest, open and responsible debate on the science, too many online outlets are silencing critics and shutting down discussion on this key public health and civil rights issue

Late last year, Slate published an investigative report detailing how pharmaceutical giant, Merck, used “flawed” and “unreliable” pre-licensing safety studies to push through approval of its multi-billion-dollar bonanza, the HPV vaccine. For veteran safe vaccine advocates, like myself, the most shocking aspect of the expose was that Slate published it at all. Slate and other liberal online publications including Salon, Huffington Post and The Daily Beast customarily block articles that critique vaccine safety in order, they argue, to encourage vaccination and protect public health. Motivated by this noble purpose, the liberal media—the supposed antidote to corporate and government power—has helped insulate from scrutiny the burgeoning vaccine industry and its two regulators, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). Both agencies have pervasive and potentially corrupting financial entanglements with the vaccine manufacturers, according to extensive congressional investigations.

Ironically, liberals routinely lambaste Pharma, and its FDA enablers for putting profits over people. Recent examples include Vioxx (100,000 injured—Merck paid more than $5 billion in fines and settlements), Abilify (Bristol Meyers Squibb paid $515 million for marketing the drug to nursing homes, knowing it can be fatal to seniors), Celebrex and Bextra (Pfizer paid $894 million for bribing public officials and false advertising about safety and effectiveness) and, of course, the opioid crisis, which in 2016 killed more Americans than the 20-year Vietnam War. What then, makes liberals think that these same companies are immune from similar temptations when it comes to vaccines? There is plenty of evidence that they are not. Merck, the world’s largest vaccine maker, is currently fighting multiple lawsuits, brought by its own scientists, claiming that the company forced them to falsify efficacy data for its MMR vaccine.

"The absence of critical attention to this exploding industry by liberal online sites is particularly troubling since pharma, using strategic investments, has effectively sidelined, not just Congress, lawyers and courts, but virtually all of our democracy’s usual public health sentinels."
The Slate article nowhere discloses that FDA licenses virtually all vaccines using the same mawing safety science deficiencies that brought us Gardasil. FDA claims that “vaccines undergo rigorous safety testing to determine their safety.” But that’s not true. FDA’s choice to classify vaccine makers as “biologics” rather than “drugs” opened a regulatory loophole that allows vaccines to evade any meaningful safety testing. Instead of the multi-year double-blind inert placebo studies—the gold standard of safety science—that the FDA requires prior to licensing other medications, most vaccines now on the CDC’s recommended childhood vaccine schedule were safety tested for only a few days or weeks. For example, the manufacturer’s package insert discloses that Merck’s Hep B vaccine (almost every American infant receives a Hep B shot on the day of birth) underwent, not five years, but a mere five days of safety testing. If the babies in these studies had a seizure—or died—on day six, Merck was under no obligation to disclose those facts.

Furthermore, many vaccines contain dangerous amounts of known neurotoxins like mercury and aluminum and carcinogens like formaldehyde, that are associated with neurodevelopmental disorders, autoimmune problems, food allergies and cancers that might not be diagnosed for many years. A five-day study has no way of spotting such associations. Equally shocking, FDA does not require vaccine manufacturers to measure proposed vaccines against true inert placebos, further obscuring researchers’ capacity to see adverse health effects and virtually guaranteeing that more subtle injuries, such as impaired immune response, loss of IQ or depression, will never be detected—no matter how widespread. Furthermore, the CDC has never studied the impacts on children’s health of combining 50 plus vaccines.



The King of the Anti-Vax loons is at it again. His scare-mongering, in the face of established science, does nothing but drive down vaccination rates in populations who believe everything they read on Facebook. Thankfully, many of the "liberal online publications" do an admirable job of filtering out the quackery, so that fucknuts like Kennedy are reduced to spewing their crankery at moonbat publications like commondream and consortiumnews.



Sid



33 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Vaccines and the Liberal Mind (Original Post) SidDithers Jun 2018 OP
"Sure he's a kook, but he's OUR kook!" Archae Jun 2018 #1
Ignoring science and believing conspiracies isn't just for the right wing Bradshaw3 Jun 2018 #2
This is regularly spun as a liberal complaint but it's not underpants Jun 2018 #9
Except the theory we're talking about here does lean more to people on the left Bradshaw3 Jun 2018 #21
Anti-vaxxers are deluded fools who endanger the rest of society with their germ-warfare kids Devil Child Jun 2018 #3
Seriously? That's what you got from this? You would look less disingenuous if you hadn't posted so rainin Jun 2018 #4
Some also remember kids crippled by polio, GulfCoast66 Jun 2018 #6
My next door neighbor is deaf because he had mumps. Mariana Jun 2018 #20
I know Kennedy's history... SidDithers Jun 2018 #7
I've done more than reflect RandomAccess Jun 2018 #13
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I don't engage much anymore rainin Jun 2018 #14
Well, unfortunately RandomAccess Jun 2018 #16
I'm sorry, but you are both wrong. Aristus Jun 2018 #19
Fan-fucking-tastic... SidDithers Jun 2018 #27
Bravo! Codeine Jun 2018 #32
Do you have any peer reviewed science to justify your fears? Bradshaw3 Jun 2018 #22
We all know that 'looking into quite a bit'. Really means reading bullshit on the internet GulfCoast66 Jun 2018 #23
I'm sorry, but I'm hoping your post isn't a plea for reconsideration of the necessity of vaccines. Aristus Jun 2018 #18
"loons", dangerous to society saidsimplesimon Jun 2018 #5
If you've never had chicken pox there's no Phoenix61 Jun 2018 #11
I agree. saidsimplesimon Jun 2018 #12
You are not serious? GulfCoast66 Jun 2018 #25
Shingles is what happens when the chicken Phoenix61 Jun 2018 #28
But the poster has never even had Chicken Pox. GulfCoast66 Jun 2018 #29
There's A New RobinA Jun 2018 #31
I do agree that coverage and healthy skepticism is good but.... underpants Jun 2018 #8
Sad to see intelligent people falling for the woo mcar Jun 2018 #10
Please vaccinate your children. Solly Mack Jun 2018 #15
... mcar Jun 2018 #17
You would think that one photo would settle the argument GulfCoast66 Jun 2018 #26
His kooky views on this are dangerous. NurseJackie Jun 2018 #24
God I hate anti-vaxxer fuckers. ismnotwasm Jun 2018 #30
Time will tell. ucrdem Jun 2018 #33

Archae

(46,337 posts)
1. "Sure he's a kook, but he's OUR kook!"
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 03:18 PM
Jun 2018

Yup, just because he's "liberal" means Kennedy can spout all the BS he wants and not be called out on it.

Bradshaw3

(7,522 posts)
2. Ignoring science and believing conspiracies isn't just for the right wing
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 03:20 PM
Jun 2018

There may be points to some of his claims but it is hard to take him seriously when he has never, as far as I know, attacked the anti-vaxxers who have driven up rates of formelry controlled diseases thanks to their junk science as he does the drug companies.

underpants

(182,837 posts)
9. This is regularly spun as a liberal complaint but it's not
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 03:52 PM
Jun 2018

Celebrities and high profile conventionally lib types are the ones that we see a lot from but the right has been on craziness like this going back to anti-fluoride in the water campaigns back in the 50's -- COMMIES!!

The home schooling for religious reasons or to exclude them from "the others" crowd appear to me to be the mass that actually does this.

Bradshaw3

(7,522 posts)
21. Except the theory we're talking about here does lean more to people on the left
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 07:18 PM
Jun 2018

Including home schoolers who don't want their children to become part of the "system." So I disagree with that and the fact that a liberal like RFK Jr. is a leader shows that it does come usually from the left.

Yes, RWs and evangelicals do engage in more of the anti-science and conspiracies but my point that - on some topics like this one and the 9-11 truthers there are some on the left that do too - stands.

rainin

(3,011 posts)
4. Seriously? That's what you got from this? You would look less disingenuous if you hadn't posted so
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 03:28 PM
Jun 2018

much of his article. His position is thoughtful and compelling. Thanks for posting, anyway. Perhaps a few will reflect on their blind trust of big pharma where vaccines are concerned.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
6. Some also remember kids crippled by polio,
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 03:33 PM
Jun 2018

And mentally damaged when their mothers got mumps while pregnant or dying from whooping cough or scarlet fever.

But anti vaccination idiots find way to change the subject when that comes up.

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
7. I know Kennedy's history...
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 03:36 PM
Jun 2018

He's complaining because "respectable" liberal publications know his schtick and won't publish him anymore.

That's why his screed appears on commondreams.

Sid

 

RandomAccess

(5,210 posts)
13. I've done more than reflect
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 04:16 PM
Jun 2018

I've looked into it quite a bit and I know where I stand. I'm not anti-vaxx per se (nor is Kennedy, btw), but I know for sure I'll never have another vaccination in MY life, and whenever the subject comes up, I'm always grateful there are no kids in my family for whom I'd need to be concerned. Those vaccine injuries are real (just ask the vaccine court!).

"Science" as we know it vis a vis the drug industry has a lot to account for, and vaccinations are just one problem area, though a major one. Worse, "Science" as we know it for vaccinations and several other areas of inquiry has become something with which to cajole, pressure, browbeat and ultimately threaten others in order to protect and enforce a certain dogma -- a pharma-supporting dogma, at that. That is to my mind the very antithesis of the scientific method since it excludes all the "thoughtful and compelling" (and educated) arguments, and also all the reconsiderations of previous thought and dogma that ought to be the very hallmark of the scientific method.

This thread -- and pretty much any other on the subject here at DU -- is a perfect example.

rainin

(3,011 posts)
14. Thank you for your thoughtful response. I don't engage much anymore
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 04:22 PM
Jun 2018

on this topic, on DU, because it's always futile. Sad really, that propaganda works so effectively that asking for SAFE vaccines triggers the same worn responses. And, from liberals is even more discouraging. One would think that liberals could be a little skeptical of big pharma.

 

RandomAccess

(5,210 posts)
16. Well, unfortunately
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 04:35 PM
Jun 2018

I've been learning that liberals / so-called progressives can be pretty damned authoritarian too.

Thank you for your response. i agree wholeheartedly.

Aristus

(66,397 posts)
19. I'm sorry, but you are both wrong.
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 05:27 PM
Jun 2018

I'm sure we're supposed to classify your erroneous outlooks as 'well-meaning', but I'm not having any of it.

As a medical provider who sometimes has to arm-wrestle ignorant parents best two-out-of-three to get them to understand the importance of vaccination, I can't keep quiet when people are calling it 'propaganda'.

Stop spreading misinformation about vaccines.

Go ahead. Flame away. I've been doing this since before you got here, and I'll be doing it long after you have rage-quit and gone over to JPR.

Bradshaw3

(7,522 posts)
22. Do you have any peer reviewed science to justify your fears?
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 07:29 PM
Jun 2018

If the science regarding vaccines is such a major problem as you assert we should have lots of data to prove that point. Also pediatricians have kids too. Are they all up in arms over vaccines, or are they getting their kids vaccinated? I'm betting it is the latter.

There isn't a "dogma" regarding vaccines. There are thousands of researchers and physicians who have studied this issue, are dedicated to doing what is right, and who know more about the science of it than you; they have children too, so both from professional and personal standpoints they have every reason to do the right thing, not do something because some big corporation told them to in order to make money. So slurring them and people on here who disagree with you as being "authoritarian" tells me you don't have any facts to back up your assertions. Unless you have there is some trove of scientific data proving your points, because all the science points the other direction.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
23. We all know that 'looking into quite a bit'. Really means reading bullshit on the internet
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:26 PM
Jun 2018

And if you think that rejecting anti-vacc propaganda is ‘very anthesis of the scientific method because it excludes all thoughtful and compelling arguments’ then it is apparent that you do not know the first thing about science nor the scientific method. Because arguments, thoughtful or compelling mean absolutely nothing. Evidence is all that matters. And there is no evidence supporting anti-vaccination. Just arguments and scientific sounding propaganda.

We at DU are a fact based community and when we come here pushing ideas that are not fact based we can expect a rather brusque reaction.

I am sure you are nice and mean well, but you have bought a pig in a poke with this anti vaccine idea.

Aristus

(66,397 posts)
18. I'm sorry, but I'm hoping your post isn't a plea for reconsideration of the necessity of vaccines.
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 05:23 PM
Jun 2018

Vaccines are safe and prevent disease, and anyone who says otherwise is irresponsibly spreading harmful misinformation. This is unethical in the extreme.

saidsimplesimon

(7,888 posts)
5. "loons", dangerous to society
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 03:29 PM
Jun 2018

I have never had chickenpox. My MD wants me to get a Shingles' vaccine shot. We had a conversation, she is British. Bottom line, I am at risk, it is my choice to play the odds given my record of zero incidents with multiple exposures.

My vaccination record is up to date and ready for travel.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
25. You are not serious?
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:46 PM
Jun 2018

If an adult who has never been exposed to chicken pox gets them it can be very, very dangerous.

The poster you were responding to needs a vaccine against that virus badly and needs it now.

Now, whether they need the actual chicken pox vaccine or the shingles vaccine or both is above my pay grade

Years ago a 50 something man who worked for me got the chicken pox. It was bad.

Phoenix61

(17,006 posts)
28. Shingles is what happens when the chicken
Sun Jun 17, 2018, 12:05 AM
Jun 2018

pox virus that has lain dormant in your nerve cells overcomes your immune system. The shingles vaccine is less than 50 percent effective.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
29. But the poster has never even had Chicken Pox.
Sun Jun 17, 2018, 12:10 AM
Jun 2018

Read up on the effects of an adult being exposed to chicken pox for the first time.

Just because they are not a kid does not make them immune.

The fact that they could go their whole life and not be exposed to chickenpox speaks to the value of herd immunity.

But if as an adult they contact chickenpox things can go bad quickly. They need a vaccination.

underpants

(182,837 posts)
8. I do agree that coverage and healthy skepticism is good but....
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 03:39 PM
Jun 2018

I think RFK Jr is making a leap here. Philosophy people could inform me of the kind of fallacy this is.

Yes Pharma has a really bad history but just because they did the things he cited doesn't mean it taints everything they do. I know that money talks but there would have to be some sort of evidence if these vaccines were really that suspect or actually detrimental- either in general or weighed with their positive effects.

Solly Mack

(90,773 posts)
15. Please vaccinate your children.
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 04:32 PM
Jun 2018

Patently unnecessary but nonetheless needed disclaimer.

Of course this doesn't apply to those who can't vaccinate their children due to actual medical reasons.











GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
26. You would think that one photo would settle the argument
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:50 PM
Jun 2018

But anti-vaccination nuts are like Trump voters. ‘Evidence, we don’t need no stinking evidence’.

It confirms their bias and no evidence will ever make them see reason.

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