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oberliner

(58,724 posts)
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 09:11 AM Jun 2018

What was the policy regarding family separation prior to Trump?

Were families ever separated in the past or is this something that is an entirely recent phenomenon due to Trump administration policy?

Prior to Trump, what was the procedure at the border with respect to families?

36 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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What was the policy regarding family separation prior to Trump? (Original Post) oberliner Jun 2018 OP
Quick search...not a whole lot of info....still searching. Heartstrings Jun 2018 #1
That graphic only tells part of the story jberryhill Jun 2018 #3
The policy of family detention as a deterrent to asylum seekers began in 2014 jberryhill Jun 2018 #2
Family detention isn't the same thing as family seperation Kaleva Jun 2018 #4
No shit jberryhill Jun 2018 #5
You gave a history of family detention policy. OP asked about family seperation policy Kaleva Jun 2018 #10
I like to support my statements by reference to verifiable sources jberryhill Jun 2018 #12
To me, the OP is a prime example of "whataboutism". Kaleva Jun 2018 #20
To immigration advocates, and normal humans generally, Trump's policy is far worse jberryhill Jun 2018 #22
the biggest part of what russia does is cause an overload of cynicism, because it works on naive bettyellen Jun 2018 #32
The fact of the matter is US policy under Obama was atrocious. Garrett78 Jun 2018 #18
"Families" are consistently referred to in these court documents Heartstrings Jun 2018 #7
Yes, that's what I wrote jberryhill Jun 2018 #8
This message was self-deleted by its author Kaleva Jun 2018 #11
Yup! nt Heartstrings Jun 2018 #24
They converted the Karnes facility to hold moms and kids sarah FAILIN Jun 2018 #9
2014: 70,000 Kids Will Show Up Alone at Our Border This Year. What Happens to Them? Baclava Jun 2018 #19
According to various articles, this is a Trump policy and not an Obama or Bush policy Kaleva Jun 2018 #6
Is this some sort of choreographed thread? Kingofalldems Jun 2018 #13
Years of practiced quiet trolling Blue_Adept Jun 2018 #21
It's time for it to be over actually. Kingofalldems Jun 2018 #25
I agree, but it's incredibly hard to actually do anything with how things are structured Blue_Adept Jun 2018 #27
Quiet? Or did you mean relentless and unmistakable? Squinch Jun 2018 #29
A lot don't see it. Look at how many legit responses are here to the OP. Blue_Adept Jun 2018 #34
Both Bush and Obama rejected this policy that Trump has implemented so no they don't Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #14
What do you think it was? ismnotwasm Jun 2018 #15
Why not do the most minimal of research and tell us what you find? NCTraveler Jun 2018 #16
They were separated but in small numbers Jersey Devil Jun 2018 #17
Did you find the answer you were looking for? jberryhill Jun 2018 #23
this link might help. ginnyinWI Jun 2018 #26
++Thanks for the link lunasun Jun 2018 #31
If only we had ways to research for information on this awesomerwb1 Jun 2018 #28
another attempt at bothsiderism? bettyellen Jun 2018 #30
There was a family detention center treestar Jun 2018 #33
LOL tenderfoot Jun 2018 #35
The default option was to keep families together and send them back home ASAP. Blue_true Jun 2018 #36
 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
3. That graphic only tells part of the story
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 09:35 AM
Jun 2018

Families arriving to seek asylum used to be processed and released.

In 2014, the Obama administration changed that policy, and began holding those families for processing. In part, this was done as a deterrent to further arrivals.

From the ACLU (2015):

https://www.aclu.org/cases/rilr-v-johnson

The case was brought on behalf of mothers and children who have fled extreme violence, death threats, rape, and persecution in Central America and come to the United States for safety. Each has been found by an immigration officer or judge to have a "credible fear" of persecution, meaning there is a "significant possibility" they will be granted asylum.

Yet, instead of releasing these families as they await their asylum hearings, which the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has typically done, the agency now categorically detains and denies their release on bond or other conditions. The Obama administration adopted this policy — "an aggressive deterrence strategy" — following this summer's increase in mothers and children coming to the United States.

The Obama administration's blanket no-release policy is a violation of federal immigration law and regulations, as well as the Fifth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, which prohibit the blanket detention of asylum seekers for purposes of general deterrence, the complaint charges.

The lawsuit aims to invalidate that policy and ensure that the families’ cases receive individualized reviews. Asylum-seeking mothers and children are being detained at facilities across the country, in places such as Karnes, Texas, and Berks County, Penn. The nation's largest family detention facility recently opened in Dilley, Texas.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
2. The policy of family detention as a deterrent to asylum seekers began in 2014
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 09:31 AM
Jun 2018

The policy of locking up families started with Obama.

The Obama administration was, in fact, sued over it:

https://www.aclu.org/cases/rilr-v-johnson

The case was brought on behalf of mothers and children who have fled extreme violence, death threats, rape, and persecution in Central America and come to the United States for safety. Each has been found by an immigration officer or judge to have a "credible fear" of persecution, meaning there is a "significant possibility" they will be granted asylum.

Yet, instead of releasing these families as they await their asylum hearings, which the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has typically done, the agency now categorically detains and denies their release on bond or other conditions. The Obama administration adopted this policy — "an aggressive deterrence strategy" — following this summer's increase in mothers and children coming to the United States.

From the court opinion:

https://www.aclu.org/legal-document/rilr-v-johnson-memorandum-opinion

The United States saw a surge in immigration in the summer of 2014as people fled increased lawlessness in Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador. Plaintiffs (and other members of the class they seek to represent) are mothers and their minor children who escaped violence and persecution in these countries to seek asylum in the United States. After entering this country unlawfully and being apprehended, each was found to have a “credible fear” of persecution, meaning there is a significant possibility that she will ultimately be granted asylum here. Although,in the past, individuals in this position were generally released while their asylum claims were processed, Plaintiffs were not so lucky. Instead, for each family, Immigration and Customs Enforcement determined that interim detention was the appropriate course.

Chasing liberty, Plaintiffs turned to the courts. They filed suit on January 6, 2015, naming the Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security and two ICE officials as Defendants. The Complaint alleges that Plaintiffs’ detention resulted from an unlawful policy that DHS adopted in June 2014 in response to the immigration spike. Pursuant to that policy,Plaintiffs claim,DHS is detaining Central American mothers and children with the aim of deterring potential future immigrants. According to Plaintiffs, such detention violates the Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution, the Immigration and Nationality Act,the Administrative Procedure Act, and applicable DHS regulations.They now seek a preliminary injunction to prevent DHS from applying this policy until a final determination has been reached on the merits of this action. Finding that the circumstances here merit that extraordinary form of relief, the Court will grant Plaintiffs’ Motion.

------

This Twitter thread from an immigration attorney explains it pretty well..





------

So, yes, families would be locked up, but not separated.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
5. No shit
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 09:46 AM
Jun 2018

I guess that would be the meaning of my writing, "So, yes, families would be locked up, but not separated."

Kaleva

(36,309 posts)
10. You gave a history of family detention policy. OP asked about family seperation policy
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 09:55 AM
Jun 2018

This is all you needed to say:

""So, yes, families would be locked up, but not separated" during the Obama administration."

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
12. I like to support my statements by reference to verifiable sources
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 10:41 AM
Jun 2018

Sorry. I'll do better next time.
 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
22. To immigration advocates, and normal humans generally, Trump's policy is far worse
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 12:53 PM
Jun 2018

Republican obstructionism prevented any serious immigration reform under the Obama administration. The policy at that time was awful, and indeed was found to be so in the referenced case.

However, the changes that Trump has implemented are downright cruel, and unjustifiably so.

As an example of whataboutism, if that's what the OP was digging for, it is a fail by any measure.

The current policy is distinctly different, and distinctly far worse.

A lot of politics comes down to seeking something that is "less bad" than the alternatives, with the general idea of moving toward a direction of improvement. One doesn't have to believe that the Obama administration was a model of perfection in order to immediately comprehend that Trump has moved in a cruel direction.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
32. the biggest part of what russia does is cause an overload of cynicism, because it works on naive
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 01:35 PM
Jun 2018

voyers of both sides, causing paralysis and apathy about voting. thats exactly what this OP seeks to do.
It's pretty damned trnasparent.

Heartstrings

(7,349 posts)
7. "Families" are consistently referred to in these court documents
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 09:48 AM
Jun 2018

I found nothing that stated such "families" were separated....unless I missed it.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
8. Yes, that's what I wrote
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 09:50 AM
Jun 2018

"So, yes, families would be locked up, but not separated."

The Obama administration unlawfully locked up families. The Trump administration goes a step further and separates them, so the adults can be held longer.

The question posed by the OP is "what was the policy before Trump?'

Response to jberryhill (Reply #8)

 

Baclava

(12,047 posts)
19. 2014: 70,000 Kids Will Show Up Alone at Our Border This Year. What Happens to Them?
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 12:01 PM
Jun 2018

Officials have been stunned by a “surge” of unaccompanied children crossing into the United States.

US authorities have struggled with how to handle the tens of thousands of kids who end up caught by the Border Patrol. Those coming from Mexico are taken straight back across. The rest are referred to the Department of Health and Human Services’ Office of Refugee Resettlement (rather than being put in immigration detention with adults) and placed in temporary shelters



https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/06/child-migrants-surge-unaccompanied-central-america/

Blue_Adept

(6,399 posts)
21. Years of practiced quiet trolling
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 12:29 PM
Jun 2018

It gets tiring in the same way that a lot of past trolls were "respected members" here that were sometimes controversial that took forever to finally get rid of.

Demsrule86

(68,586 posts)
14. Both Bush and Obama rejected this policy that Trump has implemented so no they don't
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 10:57 AM
Jun 2018

all do it. I did not like Pres. Obama's immigration policy personally...but it can't be compared to what Trump is doing. Ted Cruz is writing emergency legislation to stop this policy so it seems the GOP pain for this monstrous inhumane and morally despicable Trump decree is increasing.

https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2018-06-18/the-latest-nielsen-says-no-apology-for-separating-families

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
16. Why not do the most minimal of research and tell us what you find?
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 11:00 AM
Jun 2018

I'm talking the most simple of google searches.

People, I have an angle but want to see how educated you are before deceiving you.

Jersey Devil

(9,874 posts)
17. They were separated but in small numbers
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 11:06 AM
Jun 2018

They were only separated if the government decided to prosecute the parents, which was rare and almost always for those with serious criminal records. Otherwise they were referred to civil immigration courts and there was no need for separation because the parents weren't being shipped to jail. Trump's policy is to prosecute everyone, thus the huge increase in numbers of kids separated from their parents.

awesomerwb1

(4,268 posts)
28. If only we had ways to research for information on this
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 01:13 PM
Jun 2018

information super highway thing.

I just came up with a great name. I would call these resources "search engines"!

treestar

(82,383 posts)
33. There was a family detention center
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 01:35 PM
Jun 2018

and they were detained together.

If minors were on their own, they were unaccompanied.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
36. The default option was to keep families together and send them back home ASAP.
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 11:54 PM
Jun 2018

Trump lies about everything, his administration is purposely and heartlessly terrorizing young kids.

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