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AdamGG

(1,292 posts)
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 06:29 PM Jun 2018

Democratic Senate Majority Could Finish Trump

It seems pretty unlikely that the Democrats can get to 51 Senate votes, with all the red state seats they're defending this year and limited potential pickups (NV, AZ), but I think that taking the Senate majority could be what's necessary to finish Trump.

People always comment that impeachment isn't relevant because there would never be enough Republicans to get to the 67 votes needed to convict. But, I think it's actually 51 votes that matters, not 67.

If the Democrats can take control of the House, the House could vote to impeach. But, that doesn't really matter unless there are 51 Senators who then vote to hold an impeachment trial, that would be presided over by John Roberts. Both Bill Clinton and Andrew Johnson had the House vote to impeach them, but both times the majority of the Senate voted NOT to hold a trial and it ended there.

If the Democrats had 51 votes in the Senate, Trump and the Republicans couldn't stop the trial from proceeding. They wouldn't be able to suppress evidence. The Democratic majority on the committees could bring everything forward in public hearings, unless the presiding judge (Roberts) ruled for some reason that lines of inquiry were inappropriate. The Republicans would be powerless to stop it. Trump would surely be called to testify.

After proceedings that could be wide ranging, at the Democrats' discretion, they would need to get 67 votes to remove Trump from office. But, if there were truly wide ranging public hearings, Trump could be so damaged that enough Republicans did vote to convict, or if not, their party could be shattered for the 2020 elections, for the type of wave that could really undo gerrymandering after the census.

Getting to a Senate majority in 2018 seems unlikely, but its consequences could be massive.

31 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Democratic Senate Majority Could Finish Trump (Original Post) AdamGG Jun 2018 OP
Dense Pence would have to go with him though. sandensea Jun 2018 #1
They would need Pence if they had 50 votes. If they had 51, he'd be irrelevant AdamGG Jun 2018 #2
I believe the poster meant just getting rid of Trump wouldn't be enough. mythology Jun 2018 #5
I certainly hope so. sandensea Jun 2018 #6
If we could get enough votes to force a trial in the Senate... Raster Jun 2018 #3
Trump is doing a fantastic job C_U_L8R Jun 2018 #4
Some shocking viral video is needed from the detention centers AdamGG Jun 2018 #8
There are many contractors involved. C_U_L8R Jun 2018 #9
Mark Cuban or somebody should offer a big bounty for legit behind the scenes video AdamGG Jun 2018 #16
Absolutely C_U_L8R Jun 2018 #17
We are at 49 Democratic senators. yallerdawg Jun 2018 #7
Normally I'd like the odds, but AdamGG Jun 2018 #11
I'm in Alabama. yallerdawg Jun 2018 #12
True, but that was a historically bad Republican nominee AdamGG Jun 2018 #14
49 Democratic senators. yallerdawg Jun 2018 #15
Pedophiles? Now every GOP politician is a kidnapper throwing babies in concentration camps. lagomorph777 Jun 2018 #29
McCaskill might be safe. xmas74 Jun 2018 #13
Add Nelson (Florida) to the list of those in danger. Jim Lane Jun 2018 #18
I agree, and one more factor to consider marylandblue Jun 2018 #10
Conviction in the Senate is 67 Dan Jun 2018 #19
Phil Bredesen in TN is polling ahead of Marsha Blackburn... cynatnite Jun 2018 #20
A House victory helps Algernon Moncrieff Jun 2018 #21
Definitely. The House victory is necessary and slows him down AdamGG Jun 2018 #22
You are all assuming that the 2018 midterms will be fair elections free from any interference Books_Tea_Alone Jun 2018 #23
Begging your pardon, but Bill Clinton WAS tried in the Senate. Stinky The Clown Jun 2018 #24
Johnson and Clinon were tried Algernon Moncrieff Jun 2018 #25
Thank you Stinky The Clown Jun 2018 #26
If we even attempted it, the MAGAholes would be MERCILESS. Initech Jun 2018 #27
Playing it safe is way too risky. We must do EVERYTHING to stop the RePutin menace lagomorph777 Jun 2018 #30
It's a total damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Initech Jun 2018 #31
Thanks for the clarification AdamGG Jun 2018 #28

sandensea

(21,639 posts)
1. Dense Pence would have to go with him though.
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 06:31 PM
Jun 2018

He's just as complicit (through his brother Ed - a Putin asset), and even more extreme.

AdamGG

(1,292 posts)
2. They would need Pence if they had 50 votes. If they had 51, he'd be irrelevant
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 06:32 PM
Jun 2018

And I think if things got so bad that Trump was removed from office, the chance of Pence being elected would be pretty much nil. There's a good chance he wouldn't even be the 2020 Republican nominee.

sandensea

(21,639 posts)
6. I certainly hope so.
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 06:40 PM
Jun 2018

My fear is that, once Cheeto is removed, Big Media would go out of its way to present Sir Fetus Funeral as a "breath of fresh air" and "return to normalcy."

It's almost as if Hitler had been succeeded by Himmler, and the Allies had signed off on that as an "acceptable compromise."

Raster

(20,998 posts)
3. If we could get enough votes to force a trial in the Senate...
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 06:34 PM
Jun 2018

...it would be the kiss of death for the Republicans in the Senate because their complicity could be on display for the entire country to see.

First, We need to take back the House.


C_U_L8R

(45,003 posts)
4. Trump is doing a fantastic job
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 06:37 PM
Jun 2018

of bolstering Democratic prospects.
This latest child abuse at the border
will be an albatross around every
GOP candidate. And then there's
his mishandled trade policy driving
up prices and trashing markets.
Oh, we could go on. Heckova job,
Trumpstain.

AdamGG

(1,292 posts)
8. Some shocking viral video is needed from the detention centers
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 06:43 PM
Jun 2018

I don't think the audio clips of crying kids is having nearly the impact that video would. Trump seems to have ICE pretty locked down so far, where they're trained not to let details out. I wonder if they confiscate workers' cell phones. Some viral video could have an effect like the Abu Ghraib photos and do irreversible damage.

C_U_L8R

(45,003 posts)
9. There are many contractors involved.
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 06:47 PM
Jun 2018

We just need one with a heart and a camera phone. I suspect there are many involved who are disgusted and ashamed. They could be heroes.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
7. We are at 49 Democratic senators.
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 06:42 PM
Jun 2018

We have 5 months of rampant rabid Republicanism ahead of us.

Child abuse as some kind of demented hostage policy? Ending ban on preexisting conditions discrimination and permitting junk insurance again? Taking away funding for old people known as Medicare and Social Security?

Lying about Mexico will pay for the wall?

Just 2 seats?

I like those odds!

AdamGG

(1,292 posts)
11. Normally I'd like the odds, but
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 06:50 PM
Jun 2018

McCaskill - Missouri
Heitkamp - North Dakota
Donnelly - Indiana
Tester - Montana
Manchin - West Virginia

Those are all difficult seats to hold onto in Trump dominated states and all the seats the Republicans are defending are in states like Mississippi, Texas - except for Nevada and Arizona (which hasn't had a Democratic Senator in forever). To pick up two seats, the Democrats need to flip Nevada and Arizona, but also run the table on ALL the tough seats they're defending.

AdamGG

(1,292 posts)
14. True, but that was a historically bad Republican nominee
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 07:38 PM
Jun 2018

Most of them are terrible, but I don't know if we'll get the benefit of many more Yosemite Sam pedophiles.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
29. Pedophiles? Now every GOP politician is a kidnapper throwing babies in concentration camps.
Wed Jun 20, 2018, 12:06 AM
Jun 2018

That ought to do the trick.

The ads write themselves. And you know what the audio will be.

xmas74

(29,674 posts)
13. McCaskill might be safe.
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 07:27 PM
Jun 2018

The talk of local news is that Greitens is trying to get enough signatures to run as an independent in November. Quite a few Republican voters have said that they think he was screwed over by both parties. (He wasn't ;the GOP realized they were better off cutting their loses.)
If Greitens gets his signatures he could split the vote with Hawley in November. Many claim that is his goal :spoil it for Hawley.

Sherman A1 and I have both made comments about signing the damn petition so Claire stays safe.

 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
18. Add Nelson (Florida) to the list of those in danger.
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 10:38 PM
Jun 2018

On the bright side, Corker's retirement means that a Tennessee flip is possible. With wins in Arizona, Nevada, and Tennessee, we could afford to lose one (but only one) of the endangered Democratic seats.

marylandblue

(12,344 posts)
10. I agree, and one more factor to consider
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 06:48 PM
Jun 2018

If Republicans lose both House and Senate, Senators up for reelection in 2020 will suddenly feel very vulnerable and less willing to defend Trump.

Dan

(3,568 posts)
19. Conviction in the Senate is 67
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 11:01 PM
Jun 2018

but with the majority, they could force the minority and the nation to face the truth of what he is, what he has done, and if we are lucky why he has done what he been doing. I personally believe that he is on the payroll of Russia. This would also force the GOP to stand for something, or not.

But ultimately, maybe this majority could provide a mirror to the nation - so that we can all see what we have become (you know who you are) under this evil, insane man and his supporters.

Algernon Moncrieff

(5,790 posts)
21. A House victory helps
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 11:19 PM
Jun 2018

Even if we cant impeach, we can hold hearings on a wide range of issues the GOP has no interest in at the moment.

AdamGG

(1,292 posts)
22. Definitely. The House victory is necessary and slows him down
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 11:25 PM
Jun 2018

but combining it with a Senate victory could really finish him off.

Stinky The Clown

(67,808 posts)
24. Begging your pardon, but Bill Clinton WAS tried in the Senate.
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 11:33 PM
Jun 2018

They failed to vote to convict, but the trial did, indeed, take place.

Algernon Moncrieff

(5,790 posts)
25. Johnson and Clinon were tried
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 11:38 PM
Jun 2018

Impeachment proceedings were brought against John Tyler, but failed to win sufficient votes to go forward

Initech

(100,080 posts)
27. If we even attempted it, the MAGAholes would be MERCILESS.
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 11:45 PM
Jun 2018

There'd be riots and we'd be the ones locked in cages. They are that stupid and insane. We'd better play it safe for now.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
30. Playing it safe is way too risky. We must do EVERYTHING to stop the RePutin menace
Wed Jun 20, 2018, 12:08 AM
Jun 2018

or we're all dead.

Initech

(100,080 posts)
31. It's a total damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.
Wed Jun 20, 2018, 12:12 AM
Jun 2018

We need to make the republican brand as toxic as they made us. I know two wrongs don't make a right, but when they torture children, all cards are off the table.

AdamGG

(1,292 posts)
28. Thanks for the clarification
Wed Jun 20, 2018, 12:01 AM
Jun 2018

Apparently, my memory of 1999 isn't as clear as I thought it was and my understanding was off. I should have read up on this before posting. This went on in the Senate for a month and I must have paid less attention than I thought I did.

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