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pbmus

(12,422 posts)
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 06:20 PM Jun 2018

Can we talk about alcoholism and Anthony Bourdain?


I didn't know Anthony Bourdain, but felt like I did in one small important way. In him, I saw a drinking alcoholic with a front-stage vigorous attempt to do it successfully. His was a fantastic life-embracing show, with drinking taking a prominent role in the joie de vivre, and sometimes that made it hard for me to watch.

When he threw back shots, indeed got wasted, I saw a fellow alcoholic living dangerously whereas most viewers, I imagine, saw “a man who knew how to drink, knew how to live.” His state of mind will be called depression, and who can argue with that in the wake of his suicide. But can we please, people, start connecting the dots to alcoholism (also a disease of the mind), at least when it is screamingly evident?

Perhaps I should not presume to think I know, but I can at least invite the conversation where it is uncomfortably and amazingly absent. Did alcoholism (which brings depression or ineffectively “treats” depression) ultimately take down Bourdain?

Alcohol is a drug. “Drugs” and “alcohol” remain separate in conversations about addiction, like a “bad sister” doing outrageous unthinkable things while the “good sister” quietly nurses a prom hangover and shame from a blackout.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-alcoholism-anthony-bourdain-drinking-suicide-0622-20180621-story.html

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Can we talk about alcoholism and Anthony Bourdain? (Original Post) pbmus Jun 2018 OP
I do think that drinking is a form of self-medication for depressed people dhol82 Jun 2018 #1
He said he only drank on the road. That he abstained when back in the US. applegrove Jun 2018 #2
I read that also mitch96 Jun 2018 #18
Yes. After a heroin addiction it must be hard to find a happy normal. Even years applegrove Jun 2018 #20
Interesting take, for sure Docreed2003 Jun 2018 #3
Worthy conversation. IluvPitties Jun 2018 #4
"Perhaps I should not presume to think I know," Loki Liesmith Jun 2018 #5
Was thinking along the same lines oberliner Jun 2018 #6
+1 n/t FreeState Jun 2018 #13
Apparently you were not watching Anthony with any knowledge of.... pbmus Jun 2018 #25
This. Tipperary Jun 2018 #37
I saw a picture of him once and he was very, very thin. Alkie was my first thought. monmouth4 Jun 2018 #7
Alkie was your first thought from "very, very thin?" shanny Jun 2018 #28
I found that odd too. Tipperary Jun 2018 #38
Conversely, depression brings the alcoholism. blue neen Jun 2018 #8
We watched him drink on TV for 18 years, starting with "A Cook's Tour." yallerdawg Jun 2018 #9
His show in Chiang Mai, Thailand had me scratching my head. Most of the show was a constant Fred Sanders Jun 2018 #10
And any show with his Russian buddy Zamir. yallerdawg Jun 2018 #12
Chang Mai has amazing food FreeState Jun 2018 #14
His San Francisco episode was similar eissa Jun 2018 #22
I thought the same thing. LiberalLoner Jun 2018 #11
The article reads like it is written for an AA group local paper nt irisblue Jun 2018 #15
Interesting. H2O Man Jun 2018 #16
People with mental illness often fall victim to drug and alcohol abuse gollygee Jun 2018 #17
My son is a recovering heroin addict Freddie Jun 2018 #19
dt brings on alcoholism too. Crutchez_CuiBono Jun 2018 #21
He was a former heroin and cocaine addict but never heard that he was an alcoholic. Kaleva Jun 2018 #23
Speculation regarding possible alcohol addiction does no good Major Nikon Jun 2018 #24
I think that the creator of the thread was inviting discussion on the more general issue. Eyeball_Kid Jun 2018 #26
I didn't get that out of the OP Major Nikon Jun 2018 #31
Anthony drank major amounts of alcohol in almost every episode... pbmus Jun 2018 #34
It takes weeks to film an episode Major Nikon Jun 2018 #42
Basically, if you are an addict, you will replace one addiction with another. smirkymonkey Jun 2018 #35
Just yesterday The Atlantic published a review of advances on diagnosing alcoholism grantcart Jun 2018 #27
That was interesting. nt ecstatic Jun 2018 #30
Thanks for a very informative article... pbmus Jun 2018 #32
Interesting article. smirkymonkey Jun 2018 #36
Alcohol is a drug. dvan Jun 2018 #29
Thank you for your experienced perspective... pbmus Jun 2018 #33
I agree an addict is an addict. MoonchildCA Jun 2018 #39
Thank you for your honest post....Addiction is a disease... pbmus Jun 2018 #40
That's something I hadn't considered about Anthony Bourdain, but it makes a lot of sense. Vinca Jun 2018 #41

dhol82

(9,353 posts)
1. I do think that drinking is a form of self-medication for depressed people
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 06:24 PM
Jun 2018

It’s a way to blunt the pain.

mitch96

(13,911 posts)
18. I read that also
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 08:01 PM
Jun 2018

I just saw in the news that the French Authorities said he had no drugs in his system accept for a prescribed medication in the therapeutic range.
m

applegrove

(118,682 posts)
20. Yes. After a heroin addiction it must be hard to find a happy normal. Even years
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 08:18 PM
Jun 2018

later. Maybe he was being given advice to quit alcohol. Or go on meds for depression and did not want to. I'm sure his mental health professionals have a better picture. None of our business but we public did think we were a part of his adventures and thus his life. Not many public figures so personally lived their lives on camera. I do remember the scene in Sicily when bourdain was diving for seafood as the locals seeded the sea with dead seafood. Anthony's reaction was something to the effect of 'just let me die now' it was so cynical and depressing to him.

Docreed2003

(16,862 posts)
3. Interesting take, for sure
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 06:29 PM
Jun 2018

The only thing I would say is that take is purely through the lens of his TV shows and not from the perspective of a person who knew Bourdain.

pbmus

(12,422 posts)
25. Apparently you were not watching Anthony with any knowledge of....
Sat Jun 23, 2018, 12:28 AM
Jun 2018

Alcoholism....or addiction....

Just watch his first year and his last year....it is obvious....he was an admitted addict...and depression had taken over his life .

I am still personally reeling from his decision but am professionally confident
in my diagnosis ....and wish i could have had a personal relationship
With Anthony

monmouth4

(9,708 posts)
7. I saw a picture of him once and he was very, very thin. Alkie was my first thought.
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 06:32 PM
Jun 2018

RIP dear Anthony..

 

shanny

(6,709 posts)
28. Alkie was your first thought from "very, very thin?"
Sat Jun 23, 2018, 01:27 AM
Jun 2018

Every alkie I have known is bloated and pasty. Not a dearth of calories but a surplus of useless ones.

 

Tipperary

(6,930 posts)
38. I found that odd too.
Sat Jun 23, 2018, 06:12 AM
Jun 2018

Sadly, i know an alcoholic. She is overweight, not morbidly so, but a far cry from the way she used to look.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
9. We watched him drink on TV for 18 years, starting with "A Cook's Tour."
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 06:44 PM
Jun 2018

He gave up so many of these vices, including smoking after his daughter was born, maybe his drinking didn't register as just another addiction?

Was he a high-functioning alcoholic who slept nights between silk sheets - possessed by the same alcoholic demons haunting skid-row winos?

Ending up more a Hemingway than a Bukowski?

Quite possibly.

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
10. His show in Chiang Mai, Thailand had me scratching my head. Most of the show was a constant
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 07:11 PM
Jun 2018

stream of drinking...the many charms of the city and area were mainly overlooked as Tony set off to some farm to drink all day and night...my first realization there was something very wrong,

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
12. And any show with his Russian buddy Zamir.
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 07:21 PM
Jun 2018

Of course, there's just so much you can do with borscht.

Lot of drinking in Ireland, too (haggis).

No drinking in Nambia (raw warthog anus)? Muslim nation?

FreeState

(10,572 posts)
14. Chang Mai has amazing food
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 07:29 PM
Jun 2018

I saw the same episode and didn't have the same reaction. When I was there we spent most of our time eating and drinking too (as did a lot of other folks).

eissa

(4,238 posts)
22. His San Francisco episode was similar
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 08:34 PM
Jun 2018

So many amazing restaurants in this city and he primarily focused on bars.

I adored Bourdain; have all his books, even managed to get one autographed when he gave a talk in my city. But his drinking always made me raise an eyebrow. Knowing his issues with addiction, I always wondered if his drinking was a substitute for it. The link to depression certainly makes sense. Hope he’s at peace now.

LiberalLoner

(9,762 posts)
11. I thought the same thing.
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 07:12 PM
Jun 2018

Grew up with family alcoholics. He looked like an active alcoholic to me. It was hard for me to watch without wishing someone would rescue him.

H2O Man

(73,559 posts)
16. Interesting.
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 07:38 PM
Jun 2018

Thank you for this.

I wasn't familiar with him when he was alive, though one of my sons loved his show. But this article is interesting, in a very sad way.

Recommended.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
17. People with mental illness often fall victim to drug and alcohol abuse
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 07:38 PM
Jun 2018

but the base problem is still mental illness.

Freddie

(9,267 posts)
19. My son is a recovering heroin addict
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 08:16 PM
Jun 2018

Now working at a rehab facility doing some counseling (among other things) and hoping to go to grad school for counseling or to be a social worker. He's been taught that if your brain is prone to addiction, it doesn't matter what your "vice" is - opiates, cocaine, alcohol - you will become an addict. Alcohol is just harder to OD on (it takes longer).

Crutchez_CuiBono

(7,725 posts)
21. dt brings on alcoholism too.
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 08:22 PM
Jun 2018

and depression, and suicide. Outside influences matter. How much is a person supposed to take?

Kaleva

(36,309 posts)
23. He was a former heroin and cocaine addict but never heard that he was an alcoholic.
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 08:42 PM
Jun 2018

"Anthony Bourdain's Addiction Report Card
Anthony Bourdain has been through a series of addictions—how's he doing?

Posted Feb 08, 2014 "

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/addiction-in-society/201402/anthony-bourdains-addiction-report-card

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
24. Speculation regarding possible alcohol addiction does no good
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 09:54 PM
Jun 2018

Bourdain admitted to drug addiction, but I’ve seen nothing about him admitting to alcoholism.

Eyeball_Kid

(7,432 posts)
26. I think that the creator of the thread was inviting discussion on the more general issue.
Sat Jun 23, 2018, 01:00 AM
Jun 2018

It's nearly irrelevant whether or not Bourdain was an alcoholic.

But there is nevertheless merit to the notion that many former heroin addicts continue to self-medicate with alcohol. It's an issue that chemical dependency clinics deal with all the time. And yes, both alcohol (dependency or) addiction and heroin addiction are part of a DSM dual diagnosis with various kinds of depression, including "alcoholism depression".

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
31. I didn't get that out of the OP
Sat Jun 23, 2018, 01:58 AM
Jun 2018

Virtually the entire article was about Bourdain. So while the topic of alcoholism may certainly be worthy of discussion, it's pure speculation as to whether Bourdain even was an alcoholic, much less whether it played any role in his suicide. I just don't see the benefit of injecting him into the discussion when the author clearly doesn't know what role alcohol played in his death if any at all.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
35. Basically, if you are an addict, you will replace one addiction with another.
Sat Jun 23, 2018, 02:29 AM
Jun 2018

He probably gave up the drugs and substituted with alcohol. It's pretty common. It sounds like he was a functional alcoholic, but he was still self-medicating an underlying depression. Anyway, it's a very sad story.

dvan

(79 posts)
29. Alcohol is a drug.
Sat Jun 23, 2018, 01:36 AM
Jun 2018

Heroin addicts who take up drinking are playing with fire. Substituting one drug for another is just continuing the addiction. I’ve seen way too many addicts take up drinking because they thought alcohol was different than other drugs. Most ended up right back where they were before, usually worse. Addiction is a progressive disease. I speak from personal experience. It’s not the substance, it’s the disease of addiction that causes the problems. Think how absurd it would be if you heard someone say, “Yeah, I’m an alcoholic, but I can use heroin with no problems!” It’s all the same, street drugs, Rx drugs, alcohol, etc. He was an addict in active addiction.

MoonchildCA

(1,301 posts)
39. I agree an addict is an addict.
Sat Jun 23, 2018, 12:10 PM
Jun 2018

My father was an alcoholic. He joined AA in the mid 50s, at close to 30 years old, before he was married, and before he had kids. I always said we “grew up in AA.” He and my mom were very involved, it was a whole social network—meetings at our house, churches, retreats. He always identified as an alcoholic, even though he never drank. He was “sober” 50 years.

I saw it though. I had glimpses of my father, the alcoholic. In later years, he had many back and neck surgeries. He was in chronic pain, and I saw the behavior with prescription meds. He could not control it. He would go through a bottle of Vicodin or other pain meds like they were candy. It was pretty bad. He would never admit it to himself, or others. He had a reputation to uphold—he was a respected “old-timer” and a sponsor to so many.
I loved my father, he was a great, wise, kind man, my liberal lion. But he was more than an alcoholic, he was an addict.

pbmus

(12,422 posts)
40. Thank you for your honest post....Addiction is a disease...
Sat Jun 23, 2018, 01:23 PM
Jun 2018

and we are getting closer to successful treatments....

And Welcome to DU...

Vinca

(50,278 posts)
41. That's something I hadn't considered about Anthony Bourdain, but it makes a lot of sense.
Sat Jun 23, 2018, 01:28 PM
Jun 2018

For some reason I can't get past being mad at the guy for killing himself. It makes no sense to me since I didn't personally know the man. Wonder if I've subconsciously associated the booze problems from closer to home with Bourdain. Something to think about.

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