I really needed to read this at DU today. I don't think people really understand/get -

The stakes are this fucking high right now!

ANY Democratic candidate is 1000X better than ANY Republican candidate.

...Because if we don't stop tRump*, nothing else is going to matter.

His election with his advisors Steve Bannon and Stephen Miller scared the hell out of me. It still does.

vs. them, plus we ARE the MAJORITY, and don't forget that, we are up against a cult, and we know what happens to cults and those who dominate over them.

Screwed at their mercy. IMO the demise of the cult simply cannot occur quick enough.

THAT is what needs to be done (and one of the myriad of reasons why MI was lost). And, yes, this will vary by district.

Voters don't actually care about policy, and never have. They adopt their policy views to what the leadership they support pushes for. This election, like all elections, is about getting voters to identify with us, namely, as people who know the man in the White House is the greatest threat to the country right now.

They get them to identify with Dems by addressing the issues that they face every day. Carrot vs. stick.

That's why we hate Traitor Trump sooooooooo much. His suck off Little Putin policy, his abuse immigrants and journalist policy, his pro Nazi, KKK and racist policy. His destroy the earth policy, his hate women policy, his I'm Traitor Trump the king policy.

That's why some Dems voted for Gill and others over Hillary. It was about their policy positions. True, some people think they need a father figure, God or leader to be their political representative but that's identity politics or fascism and not the majority of people.

Show me the data that says I and the majority of voters only care about who and not what.

That said, Traitor Trump is the biggest threat to America and our democracy right now and that's the type of Dem I am.

They do for some of us. What about the women marches, the #me too movement, etc. Each person's moral compass determines what policies they can or can't support.

What about them?

About 5 million people participated in the women's marches (I was one), which is, roughly, 8% of people who voted for Clinton. That sounds like a pretty good guesstimate of how much of the electorate really votes based on policy.

and running for offices. I think there is more than 8% who will be voting using their moral compasses. Praying I am right.

And November is when we start that.

They do not take, as far as I could tell, into consideration the social and institutionalized pressures and roadblocks preventing minorities, the powerless and the poor from voting. Not only are they prevented from voting, they are prevented from getting accurate information to make a decision. They are also discouraged from obtaining an education which would allow them to make better decisions on accurate information.

Numerous studies have show the widom of the crowd, if the crowds are allowed a truly secret vote. But that wisdom can be ruined by misinformation, excessive social pressure to conform, illiteracy and propaganda.

So what these men are really reporting on is all the pressure on voters to vote wrong.

The analysis of voter behavior mimicing spending money seems like something the right wing likes to shove down our throats all the time. That you can vote with your dollars when in actuality they are saying only those with money can vote. Sounds like a Milton Friedman style economic theory justification of why we should throw away democracy and just let the uber rich control us all.

The perfect mix is progressive policy + a charismatic candidate.

We need good policy and a good strategy to catapult the message. But let's not kid ourselves, gone are the days of the unassuming technocrat. Where their ideas trump (@$&@! Can't ever use that term now without barfing) personality.

Which Presidents stand out? Which ones had minimum two terms. FDR Kennedy Reagan Bill Clinton Obama. The message should always be the most important, but it won't get out without a messenger that can hold attention. I think a crowd pleaser is even more essential in this age of 1000 channel TV and net entertainment. Our minds are now conditioned for it.

Dare I say the best example might be Donald Trump. One of the multiple reasons why Hillary lost, though all things being fair that shouldn't have mattered. But whether one likes to admit it or not, Trump trumped Hillary in the charisma department. Trump had much more practice being a snake oil megalomaniac for years in front of cameras and crowds.

The voters favor our issues. But they are WAY more vulnerable to hate and cultural resentment. So kuch so that his core voters will GLADLY vote to harm themselves, so long as those they resent are harmed more.

Fight for Democrats to be elected. Period. Full stop. We can fight over what "kind" of Democrats we all are later.

Right now I don't care if somebody's candidate is the yellowest Yellow Dog Democrat or a raging DINO. If they have a (D) after their name on the ballot, you vote for them. Because unless we get a majority of (D)s on Capitol Hill, Democrats can't control the legislative agenda and the progressive ones can't become committee chairs.



=========

"There are but two parties now: traitors and patriots. And I want hereafter to be ranked with the latter and, I trust, the stronger party."

- Ulysses S. Grant

This is one of them. When modern political figures say we have survived darker times this could be what they are referencing. I am not sure we have yet survived those traitors.

Lee himself admitted he had underestimated Grant's logistical abilities and strategic creativity.

His understanding of maneuver and attrition were well ahead of his time.

I'm there too. Along with other people who can process nuance.

Last edited Wed Aug 1, 2018, 04:50 PM - Edit history (1)

As long as there are politicians and their voters (Republicans and Trumpers) who think certain kinds and classes of people are less than human.

Winning the House is the immediate need. Vote Democrat!

as there are politicians and their voters (Republicans and Trumpers) who THINK certain kinds and classes of people are less than human.

Correct your post!

Post corrected.

Yep this is very important. Hopefully the posters in this forum will go make a difference in the real world.

The DU is a safe area. Need to be doing the battle on the battleground (elections, voting, get out the vote, join up, etc)

Divisive primaries supress General Election turnout.

Let’s argue over the details after we actually get some power.

Those who purposefully drive division at this time are to me just as dangerous as Trump. Life in a dictatorship is not as easily reversible as I fear some believe. Theocracy, also a possibility, is just as difficult. I've escaped these. We're not engaging in a rhetorical exercise or a video game. People need to wise up.

My position is, we can disagree later about whether to privatize the fire department or have armed prayer in schools. I'll put all that aside for now if we can just stand together against fascism and support constitutional democracy. Until this is over, Morning Joe and George Will and Max Boot are friends.

..because there's a chance we may hang separately later.

but i care about all of it, i just don't see a way to accomplish any of it while trump is president and especially the #GOPTraitors are in charge.
i am fearful that our democracy will be lost. it is that bad.

That's exactly where we all need to be, staring at and acknowledging the abyss, determined we hold the line and don't go over. This is no time for moaning and groaning, sniping at any and every flaw we can think of within the Democratic Party or our leadership team.

This is one of those rare moments when I can quote GW and not be embarrassed:

You're either with us or agin us.

This time that statement makes sense.

YES, we need a strong message AGAINST the treasonous POtuS who poses the greatest threat to our country.

But to win every vote we can, we have to be FOR something as well -- a few strong messages backed up by practical policies, repeated over and over again. Voters need to understand what Democrats stand FOR as well as what we stand AGAINST.

A large number of you fellow Americans live on the edge every day. They're working multiple jobs with odd schedules, desperately looking for child care, dealing with a major health crisis, etc. Trump does not scare them as their own lives do. That's why they don't respond to your, and my, sense of urgency and panic about Trump. They may not support Trump, but they're not going to be motivated to vote unless they see a real plan that will improve their lives.

Thus, the problem with your thinking is that using Trump as a motivator is not enough to get rid of Trump.

That is my pitch to politically-oriented people to stop absurd internecine squabbles over questions of policy that we aren't even slightly in a position to be addressing right now anyways.

What puts the Dems over the top are those people who don't vote or are not motivated to vote. Half the country did not vote in 2016. The other half was roughly split between Hillary and Trump. It's in that half that does not vote is where clear victory lies for the Democrats across the country.

Not just those who didn't vote, but peeling away votes from those that voted for Trump, as well. No stone should be left unturned.

The greatest potential, I think, is among college-age voters, who are wildly underrepresented in the voting totals.

tRump and his minions are, quite literally, enemies of the US. We Democrats have to repeat that as often as is feasible.

But we can repeat it by showing the electorate why he's bad and why we're good:
- he promised better, cheaper health care. We already delivered it.
- he conspired with Russians. Our candidates turned purloined docs to the FBI.
- he's a lying loudmouth, full of childish insults. People are used to civility from us.
- the government is flailing, he is threatening a shutdown. We get things done.
- he brags about the economy. We did the actual work to improve it.

Oh, and about a thousand more things we can run on. Let's not limit it to hatred of the White House squatter. We have accomplishments that the electorate like and we can give the country more and better.

like Nazi Germany. These deplorable people believe tRump over the media and he lies all the time. We are in very dangerous and depressing territory at the moment. I want our sane country back.

don't want us women to walk around in red capes and white hats.

If Putin's Puppet is not impeached, the elections in 2020 will be a sham.

This you can take to the bank!

the result of the failure of the party to fully unify after Bernie lost.

Somehow we have to convince all our voters, and especially the young whose whole future is riding on this vote, that every race in this election matters. We also need to change things on a state level, since 35 of the states are now controlled by Republicans -- and that's why we have so much gerrymandering.

That's what I'm trying to push back against.

would be with us 10% of the time. No comparison.

They are trying to divide our party because that is what destroyed theirs. The Tea Party fixed them good, going after the "mainstream republicans" tore them to pieces. Their far right wing policies did to them what a litmus test for Democrats will do to us. GOTV!!!!! Drive people to the polls, call your neighbors, if you work with young adults encourage them to register, if they are already registered have them check their registration to make sure they are still able to vote. The same for minority friends and neighbors. I took one to the county registration office and she found out she had been purged. Thankfully she was still able to register for November.

Get busy people, stop fighting with each other!

being saying this November was the last stand since the day he was elected.

We have to start the long, tough job of reclaiming what's left of our country, from the right-wing savages who currently control and despoil it. We need to field the strongest, most intelligent and articulate candidates we can---those of you who are angling for a repeat of the 2016 fiasco, who are putting up the faction vs. faction threads, kindly leave the fucking building. We either claim victory now, or we prep ourselves for another civil war. That's really and truly where things are at, now.

Could not agree more.

Voting D straight ballot for the first time in their life.

I watched his "rally" in Tampa yesterday and was disgusted. He is a dangerous demagogue who delights in whipping up hate and fear-of-the-other in his base.

And then I watched the heartbreaking show on Frontline last night about child detentions and family separations at the border, and saw the results of his disastrous policies.

We have to get rid of this guy.

possibility of President-for-life Trump' Democrat."


A very scary thought, and it's a possible scenario.

...but I'm willing to wait and see what happens in November before I hold the funeral" camp. I personally don't see how America recovers from the "tajmahalification" it's experiencing right now, but many progressives/liberals still continue to hold out hope that the America we knew prior to that orange gollum illegally assuming residence in our White House can be recovered. Ok, I say, not being one to squash hope. But in that I give a sound warning, just in case I'm right each of us should be prepared to take the steps necessary to bring this evil empire to it's knees, for the good of the world. This evil can not be allowed to survive. I think we have to at some point grapple with the notion that there just are somethings that love alone can't solve.

That's something I keep realizing as I work with younger volunteers. This is just the political world they've known since they first started getting into politics. I want to "repair" things, they want to "improve" them. My inclination is their view should win out.

The republic is on life support. People jeering the press with animalistic howls. Babies in cages.
Alliances with old friends are mocked. Dictators embraced.
We HAVE to win.

This is not the time for putting ourselves in slots. And once a primary is over, unify and move the fuck along in support of the primary winner. Lastly, stay the fuck out of other primaries if your goal is to tear down a viable candidate who is leading.

Any kind of democrat is better than the Helsinki Coward.

if we lose in November, we will have to keep fighting. From the trenches if it comes to it. If we win in November, we'll be in a much better position of strength, but the war won't be over.

Trump's a product of the systematic corruption of the minds of much of our electorate, right and left, and of the destabilization of our nation. He's not the cause. Others from our new ultrawealthy classes are and this isn't over until we destroy them.

I've got my exit strategy in place. Hoping I'm wrong, but I absolutely expect a staged "Reichstag fire" type of event occurring in the September/October timeframe. We'll be at war with North Korea or Iran, there will be a major attack on US soil.. something.

If it walks like a fascist, propagandizes like a fascist, …..

As odious as these bastards have been and continue to be, even they get it that this crap is a raging dumpster fire in Washington, D.C. that threatens to destroy everything in its path.

This is the VERY LAST SHOT THAT ANYONE WHO CARES ABOUT THE U.S. DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC IS GOING TO GET TO STOP THIS MADNESS. The very last one. And it's not even a good shot at that! What with Russia doubling down on the hacking of the U.S. electoral process and twisting and distorting public and social media information.

That sums it up, FM123!

Vote D for Democracy. NOT R for Russia.

And in looking at Democrats running right now (e.g. KS-03) I am not only looking for who I want, but who has the greatest chance of winning. It is time to win.

I don't care if someone is even a Democrat if they are working to bring Trump down (and not splitting our vote in the process of doing so and thereby enabling a Trumper to get in. By that I mean right now I welcome the support of "Never Trump" Republicans and ex-Republicans who are urging relatively sane Republicans to vote for Democrats running in the 2018 mid-terms.

so it could be a very long presidency for life

We need to take back control of the House and Senate (and ultimately the SCOTUS too), impeach and convict Trump or at least force him to resign, repair the damage to our institutions as rapidly as possible, and only then entertain any kind of divisive topics.

We need the House. We need the Senate. We need enough Democrats in both chambers so we can get things done.

It’s out of the ballpark and bouncing around somewhere in a far parking lot.

Well said, Recursion, well said. With you 100 percent.

He's gone in '20 or a tiny chance of '24.
I'm all for fighting the fight, we all are, but I'm out of the total fear stuff. I'm not letting him take away enjoying life.

NOTHING else matters!

But, yes. We need to get rid of these motherfuckers ASAP, or all of that stuff will be out of our reach permanently.

It's dangerous at this time in history.

I don't give a damn about your "personal ethics". Right now the Republic is at risk, and there is a real threat of him declaring himself "President for Life" by starting a war if the numbers are against him enough. Because 80,000 idiots couldn't bring themselves to get over themselves and their damn personal importance, we now have Putin running our country. Get the fuck over it. Get involved. Volunteer to register voters. And hold your nose if you have to, but get off your ass and vote blue in November.