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question everything

(47,488 posts)
Wed Aug 1, 2018, 02:14 PM Aug 2018

Ostrich coat?

I admit, I don't know why a person's high spending should be an item in his trial. Financial statements should be the evidence of his cheating and lying and money laundering. How he spends his money is his business.

Just saying.

46 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Ostrich coat? (Original Post) question everything Aug 2018 OP
Kind of surprising too kcr Aug 2018 #1
Ostrichigarchy Mendocino Aug 2018 #36
What an Ostrichigarch looks like kcr Aug 2018 #39
Kinda agree here... haele Aug 2018 #2
It does seem to fall into the "he's unlikable so you should find him guilty" department. n/t PoliticAverse Aug 2018 #3
Buying large ticket items with cash can be an indicator. Cracklin Charlie Aug 2018 #9
I agree but I didn't see a mention that the coat purchase was via a cash payment, was that a claim PoliticAverse Aug 2018 #11
Vendors are testifying today that Manafort paid for the stuff with wire transfers from a Cyprus bank emulatorloo Aug 2018 #16
Ah, thanks. n/t PoliticAverse Aug 2018 #18
Great updates at WAPO if you can view it emulatorloo Aug 2018 #20
"Wall told the jury that Manafort spent more than $334,000 at the luxury menswear store." PoliticAverse Aug 2018 #22
It's mind blowing, isn't it? n/t emulatorloo Aug 2018 #24
Curious how the Trump family members have been paying for their purchases question everything Aug 2018 #44
IRS uses "lifestyle" as indicator of unreported income. yellowcanine Aug 2018 #13
I don't see it as much different than the houses and decorations... NCTraveler Aug 2018 #4
Its Goes Hand in Hand With the Money Laundering argument Stallion Aug 2018 #5
Exactly.... HipChick Aug 2018 #6
Judge agrees - no spending stuff allowed in ksoze Aug 2018 #7
Not exactly. Financial transactions being discussed now. Clothing vendors talking about emulatorloo Aug 2018 #19
Yes they can spend money on anything they like, Butterflylady Aug 2018 #8
and, since this there is a tax evasion charge "did they pay taxes on that income"? n/t PoliticAverse Aug 2018 #12
I haven't been following the live updates jberryhill Aug 2018 #10
Very Succinct Live updates at WAPO emulatorloo Aug 2018 #15
No, it wasn't "his money" to spend. He wasn't paying taxes and he was committing bank fraud. emulatorloo Aug 2018 #14
It's not his money lame54 Aug 2018 #17
And this is the question. question everything Aug 2018 #45
This is how a lot of people making money illegally get caught Ms. Toad Aug 2018 #21
Just saying, huh? LanternWaste Aug 2018 #23
republicans are special Achilleaze Aug 2018 #25
The judge has only said that he wouldn't allow photos of the items, The Velveteen Ocelot Aug 2018 #26
I could tell the difference, and I'm partially blind. Pathwalker Aug 2018 #29
I'm such a peasant that I'm completely oblivious to such things. The Velveteen Ocelot Aug 2018 #30
Trump's suit coats are too small and his pants don't fit at all. Pathwalker Aug 2018 #34
The sleeves are too long for his tiny T-Rex hands and arms The Velveteen Ocelot Aug 2018 #41
Some years ago a writer at the LA Times visited London and wrote about "bespoke" shirts... Hekate Aug 2018 #32
You just know he's scratchinh himself raw. ;-) Pathwalker Aug 2018 #35
Kind of hijacking this thread but there is a way for middle class to dress bespoke GulfCoast66 Aug 2018 #42
Indicative of obscene extravagance the normal person could not conceive of. magicarpet Aug 2018 #27
Sometimes you need a little ostrich for a GOP soiree C_U_L8R Aug 2018 #28
Adding up how much people spend is one way of getting them for TAX EVASION & MONEY LAUNDERING Hekate Aug 2018 #31
Ostrich enid602 Aug 2018 #33
What no Mendocino Aug 2018 #37
scrotum coat! 0rganism Aug 2018 #38
Large Ticket Purchases Paid With Overseas Wire Transfers JimGinPA Aug 2018 #40
It's one way of establishing motive as well... Adrahil Aug 2018 #43
$15,000 is chump change. Tracer Aug 2018 #46

haele

(12,660 posts)
2. Kinda agree here...
Wed Aug 1, 2018, 02:19 PM
Aug 2018

Whether it's an ostrich coat or or a Swiss Sanatorium/investment in a research lab to care for/cure his beloved critically ill nanny who contracted a rare orphan disease that should have killed her decades ago - he still laundered money.
Doesn't matter what he does with it, he still intentionally committed a crime. Isn't Law and Order what the GOP is all about?

Haele

Cracklin Charlie

(12,904 posts)
9. Buying large ticket items with cash can be an indicator.
Wed Aug 1, 2018, 02:26 PM
Aug 2018

Manafort made a lot of cash purchases. Certain crimes,ie...embezzling, money washing, drug dealing, tend to feature perps spending cash for expensive items.

They are likely just giving some background.

PoliticAverse

(26,366 posts)
11. I agree but I didn't see a mention that the coat purchase was via a cash payment, was that a claim
Wed Aug 1, 2018, 02:31 PM
Aug 2018

made by the Prosecutors?

emulatorloo

(44,133 posts)
16. Vendors are testifying today that Manafort paid for the stuff with wire transfers from a Cyprus bank
Wed Aug 1, 2018, 03:44 PM
Aug 2018

They say most of their clothes buying clients pay with credit cards, etc.

But Manafort always paid for his clothing with wire transfers from foreign banks.

emulatorloo

(44,133 posts)
20. Great updates at WAPO if you can view it
Wed Aug 1, 2018, 03:51 PM
Aug 2018

They do a paragraph or two summary of each witness

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2018/08/01/paul-manafort-trial-day-two/?utm_term=.bbfd8cdbf0b4

Latest is the Mercedes dealer

3:42 p.m.: Manafort’s vehicle purchases detailed

Prosecutors’ fifth witness Wednesday, and sixth overall, was Daniel Opsut, a salesman at Mercedes Benz of Alexandria.

Opsut testified that Kathleen Manafort, Paul Manafort’s wife, paid for a new SL550 in 2012 with a wire transfer from Lucicle Consultants Ltd, one of the Cypriot shell companies prosecutors say Manafort used to hide his Ukrainian income. The car cost $124,000 but Manafort traded in two older Mercedes, an E350 convertible and an SL500, saving herself $56,000.

“It’s not common, but it’s not unheard of” for customers to pay by wire transfer, Opsut testified.

The government also introduced a stipulation that Paul Manafort and his daughter Andrea used a $83,525 wire transfer from Lucicle Consultants to buy a 2012 Land Rover Range Rover from Don Beyer Motors in April of 2012. A stipulation means Manafort’s defense does not contest that piece of evidence.

Paul and Kathleen Manafort used the same company to lease a 2012 Range Roger with a $12,525 down payment that same month. In June, they bought a Range Rover, and, again, $67,655 of the cost was paid for through Lucicle Consultants.


PoliticAverse

(26,366 posts)
22. "Wall told the jury that Manafort spent more than $334,000 at the luxury menswear store."
Wed Aug 1, 2018, 03:56 PM
Aug 2018

Were they using golden thread in his garments?

question everything

(47,488 posts)
44. Curious how the Trump family members have been paying for their purchases
Wed Aug 1, 2018, 10:22 PM
Aug 2018

Or, to they just raid their hotels for small change?

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
4. I don't see it as much different than the houses and decorations...
Wed Aug 1, 2018, 02:23 PM
Aug 2018

Which are a big part of the case.

I would need to know more details about it.

Stallion

(6,476 posts)
5. Its Goes Hand in Hand With the Money Laundering argument
Wed Aug 1, 2018, 02:24 PM
Aug 2018

because he couldn't recognize income in United States accounts

if he recognized income and paid his taxes on the 15 or is it 60 Million then it wouldn't be an issue. What they are saying is that he paid for those items with laundered funds

emulatorloo

(44,133 posts)
19. Not exactly. Financial transactions being discussed now. Clothing vendors talking about
Wed Aug 1, 2018, 03:49 PM
Aug 2018

how Manafort insisted on paying with wire transfers from a bank in Cyprus (where he was hiding his Ukraine money) (other shoppers paid w credit cards)

Judge didn’t want pics of clothes, but the financial stuff is being explored examined

Butterflylady

(3,546 posts)
8. Yes they can spend money on anything they like,
Wed Aug 1, 2018, 02:26 PM
Aug 2018

question is "where did that money come from and how did they get it?"

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
10. I haven't been following the live updates
Wed Aug 1, 2018, 02:27 PM
Aug 2018

But, if they are going into detail on Manafort's spending habits, I agree that it is tangential to the point that:

1. He earned a truckload of money overseas, and

2. He used a variety of silly mechanisms to spend that money in the US and didn't report any of it as income.

It's neither here nor there if it was an ostrich coat or a ten year supply of pickled herring.

emulatorloo

(44,133 posts)
14. No, it wasn't "his money" to spend. He wasn't paying taxes and he was committing bank fraud.
Wed Aug 1, 2018, 03:30 PM
Aug 2018

His financial records are in evidence as well.

He was paying for this stuff out of a bank in Cyprus where he was hiding his Ukraine money from the IRS.


Ms. Toad

(34,076 posts)
21. This is how a lot of people making money illegally get caught
Wed Aug 1, 2018, 03:53 PM
Aug 2018

If your legitimate income is only $500,000 - and you are consistently spending $750,000/year, and can't explain where the additional $250,000 comes from, chances are you are making money illegally (and not paying taxes on it).

So the Ostrich coat isn't specifically of interest - but it is, as part of showing the money he was spending wasn't his money to spend (because expenditures greatly exceeded legitimate income).

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,757 posts)
26. The judge has only said that he wouldn't allow photos of the items,
Wed Aug 1, 2018, 04:07 PM
Aug 2018

not that there could be no evidence at all of the purchases, like sales receipts. And that's fine. I suspect that most of the jurors, like most other people (including me) wouldn't be able to tell from a photo whether they were looking at a multi-thousand-dollar bespoke suit from Savile Row or one bought off the rack for $150 at a JC Penney closeout sale. I sure couldn't. And I wouldn't know ostrich leather from Naugahyde from a photo, either. Show me the receipts; that's what's important anyhow.

Pathwalker

(6,598 posts)
29. I could tell the difference, and I'm partially blind.
Wed Aug 1, 2018, 05:04 PM
Aug 2018

But then, I've had a fascination with textiles and clothing all my life. The multi thousand dollar suit would lie flat, and neatly, with absolutely no puckers or wrinkles at the seams, while the JC Penney suit would wrinkle and pucker at the seams, and possibly have variations in weave and weft from using different bolts of cloth. There's always a reason for the difference in price - professional seamstresses are the reason.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,757 posts)
30. I'm such a peasant that I'm completely oblivious to such things.
Wed Aug 1, 2018, 05:10 PM
Aug 2018

I could probably tell the difference if I could look at the actual items, but I'd probably miss the details in a photo (unless it was something like plaids not lined up or buttons hanging by threads). If people were wearing them I could tell by the way they fit (which makes me wonder where Spanky gets his suits, because it looks like he found them in a dumpster behind a K-Mart).

Pathwalker

(6,598 posts)
34. Trump's suit coats are too small and his pants don't fit at all.
Wed Aug 1, 2018, 05:29 PM
Aug 2018

He's gained weight since he bought those coats, and those pants are off the rack - or his tailor hates him, because they't too tight in the...seat. He sometimes looks like he's slept in them, or just threw them over a chair.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,757 posts)
41. The sleeves are too long for his tiny T-Rex hands and arms
Wed Aug 1, 2018, 08:30 PM
Aug 2018

and he never buttons the jackets, probably because he can't.

Hekate

(90,727 posts)
32. Some years ago a writer at the LA Times visited London and wrote about "bespoke" shirts...
Wed Aug 1, 2018, 05:23 PM
Aug 2018

He went to the haberdashery for research -- yeah, research. LOL. Anyway, he decided to find out what it was all about and whether hand-tailored bespoke shirts really felt different.

I gather it was a wonderful, if wallet-lightening, experience, and that yes, those shirts were like nothing else in his middle-class existence.

That said, I admit to some Schadenfreude at the thought of Paul Manafort in prison garb.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
42. Kind of hijacking this thread but there is a way for middle class to dress bespoke
Wed Aug 1, 2018, 08:40 PM
Aug 2018

Just buy a decent quality shirt from Macy’s or some such store.

Find a good tailor and you can have them adjusted to fit you perfectly. My tailor charges less than 30 dollars and it looks custom fit. I regularly get comments on the shirts I wear and I never have more than $70 invested in them.

And with Manafort the issue is not the purchases. But the way he was laundering Money.

Hekate

(90,727 posts)
31. Adding up how much people spend is one way of getting them for TAX EVASION & MONEY LAUNDERING
Wed Aug 1, 2018, 05:14 PM
Aug 2018

It's not genius, it's the IRS. If you claim on your tax returns that you make, say, $100,000 per year, but you own a $2,000,000 house or two, plus a Lamborghini -- it makes the IRS want to give you a deep deep audit.

Red Don's early morning tweet about Al Capone is directly related to this: the feds couldn't get hm for murder, but famously they finally got him for tax evasion.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
43. It's one way of establishing motive as well...
Wed Aug 1, 2018, 08:46 PM
Aug 2018

Someone with expensive tastes may get desperate enough to do some shady things to support the habit.

Also, if a person is buying things apparently beyond their reported income, it suggests tax fraud.

Tracer

(2,769 posts)
46. $15,000 is chump change.
Thu Aug 2, 2018, 09:58 AM
Aug 2018

I was in the doctor's waiting room and picked up a copy of the NYT "fashion" magazine.

Flipping the pages, I came across a photo spread and stopped short at one of the prices:

A tan wool coat (more like a poncho), that had what looked like leather trim around the edges.

Price: $24,900.

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