General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsA thought about how to fight election fraud. I wonder whether we could try this.
Since several European companies have reverted to conducting elections with paper ballots after having tried electronic voting, perhaps there could be a campaign here to ask those countries to monitor our elections. Hopefully those countries would respond by demanding that we, too, get rid of computerized voting and instead use paper ballots if they are to do any monitoring. At the very least, it could be a technique to raise awareness of rampant election fraud, since our politicians have failed to address the problem.
Europe Rejects Digital Voting Machines
By Newsweek Staff On 5/22/09
https://www.newsweek.com/europe-rejects-digital-voting-machines-80085
When Ireland embarked on an ambitious e-voting scheme in 2006 that would dispense with "stupid old pencils," as thenprime minister Bertie Ahern put it, in favor of fancy touchscreen voting machines, it seemed that the nation was embracing its technological future. Three years and 51 million later, in April, the government scrapped the entire initiative. High costs were one concernfinishing the project would take another 28 million. But what doomed the effort was a lack of trust: the electorate just didn't like that the machines would record their votes as mere electronic blips, with no tangible record.
One doesn't have to be a conspiracy theorist or a Luddite to understand the fallibility of electronic voting machines. As most PC users by now know, computers have bugs, and can be hacked. We take on this security risk in banking, shopping and e-mailing, but the ballot box must be perfectly sealed. At least that's what European voters seem to be saying. Electronic voting machines do not meet this standard.
A backlash against e-voting is brewing all over the continent. After almost two years of deliberations, Germany's Supreme Court ruled in March that e-voting was unconstitutional because the average citizen could not be expected to understand the exact steps involved in the recording and tallying of votes. Political scientist Joachim Wiesner and his son Ulrich, a physicist, filed the initial lawsuit and have been instrumental in raising public awareness of the insecurity of electronic voting. In an interview with the German magazine Der Spiegel, the younger Wiesner said, with some justification, that the Dutch Nedap machines used in Germany are even less secure than mobile phones. The Dutch public-interest group Wij Vertrouwen Stemcomputers Niet (We Do Not Trust Voting Machines) produced a video showing how quickly the Nedap machines could be hacked without voters or election officials being aware (the answer: five minutes). After the clip was broadcast on national television in October 2006, the Netherlands banned all electronic voting machines.
Numerous electronic-voting inconsistencies in developing countries, where governments are often all too eager to manipulate votes, have only added to the controversy. After Hugo Chávez won the 2004 election in Venezuela, it came out that the government owned 28 percent of Bizta, the company that manufactured the voting machines. Similarly, the 2004 elections in India were notorious for gangs stuffing electronic ballot boxes in villages.
SNIP
eleny
(46,166 posts)diva77
(7,652 posts)eleny
(46,166 posts)She ran the vote count here in Colorado if I recall right in Telluride. We were doing a project here at DU years ago and I was contacting the various districts around the state. When I asked her how they counted the ballots she said "The only reliable way, with eyeballs!"
diva77
(7,652 posts)But people like that woman know it's a scam. But the vendors and lobbyists and fraudulently installed politicians are the ones with the $$ and upper hand.
eleny
(46,166 posts)But the machines that count the ballots is what I worry about.
diva77
(7,652 posts)MichMan
(11,958 posts)Last edited Wed Aug 8, 2018, 11:30 PM - Edit history (1)
You will likely get 10 different answers
Don't know why everyone thinks hand counting is always more accurate
diva77
(7,652 posts)always a possibility, however, machine counts can pilfer votes county or statewide with an algorithm and steal an election, not to mention experiencing "glitches", other means of hacking, etc. The more transparent the election, the more accurate the result is going to be. The most transparent form is hand-counted paper ballots at the precinct level with public oversight.
mythology
(9,527 posts)Wisconsin and Michigan did recounts that showed no votes were changed. I don't know why people insist on not believing the evidence, but I'll continue to post it. If you have any actual evidence, feel free to post it. But you can't because the conspiracy theory is baseless.
Nor could we find any statistical differences correlated with accessibility technologies or with different voting technology vendors.
The tests uncovered nothing suspicious. That supports a conclusion that voting machines themselves were not hacked.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/06/06/were-2016-vote-counts-in-michigan-and-wisconsin-hacked-we-double-checked/?utm_term=.6cf67dd4acb3
diva77
(7,652 posts)votes are being counted as cast.
Despite the arguments in your post being presented repeatedly, they are not evidence that our votes are being counted as cast.
brooklynite
(94,679 posts)...can be convinced to invite foreigners in to act as observers?
Good luck with that.
Let me observe, as a baseline, that the average voter doesn't think the voting system we use is vulnerable. I don't see any consensus for radical change, even among Democratic leaders.
diva77
(7,652 posts)True, I wouldn't expect OUR government officials to do the inviting, but if the European countries that have rejected e-voting gear were to respond to a request for monitoring even by other organizations, the issue could receive more exposure and perhaps action to help eradicate the problem.
eleny
(46,166 posts).... will make people give up and not vote.
I don't agree with their assumptions about voters but there it is.
diva77
(7,652 posts)heads out of the sand.
eleny
(46,166 posts)It's either they accept the facts and be proactive or get to planning their forced retirements.
brooklynite
(94,679 posts)brooklynite
(94,679 posts)...add to which, any serious media outlet would love to reveal evidence of vote hacking if it existed; the Pulitzer Prizes would flow freely.
eleny
(46,166 posts)But until all Russian hell broke loose I don't recall seeing their hair on fire since the first Bush election. Even after Gov. Dean had that segment on tv proving how fast the machines could be hacked. But if they're finally on fire over all this then that's a good thing.
diva77
(7,652 posts)coverup, the VW diesel coverup. Lots of people have already suffered loss of jobs and worse when trying to expose the scam - think of people like Ion Sancho and Kevin Shelley.