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***BREAKING****Defense rests in Manafort trial . No defense witnesses will be called. (Original Post) DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2018 OP
Did they present any defense? Renew Deal Aug 2018 #1
Nope. No defense witnesses called. dalton99a Aug 2018 #5
That's so rare. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2018 #7
Maybe they know they have someone in the jury. Renew Deal Aug 2018 #13
My thoughts too. Va Lefty Aug 2018 #21
Perhaps. old guy Aug 2018 #31
That certainly isn't a reason to not put on a defense Takket Aug 2018 #61
I was reading online that it is not uncommon in "white collar" cases NewJeffCT Aug 2018 #34
It's not rare at all. VMA131Marine Aug 2018 #54
After reading about the reasoning behind this, I would conclude: olegramps Aug 2018 #46
Will we get closing statements today? nt Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2018 #2
I would think so, yes. W_HAMILTON Aug 2018 #6
Not till tomorrow. n/t pnwmom Aug 2018 #29
Tomorrow. They will be deciding on jury instructions today The Velveteen Ocelot Aug 2018 #38
What the hell? Glimmer of Hope Aug 2018 #3
Not all Defendants put on witnesses. Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2018 #4
I'll say it is a gamble. From what has been reported, Grammy23 Aug 2018 #15
It's actually quite common. Especially ... Whiskeytide Aug 2018 #16
The prosecution's case isn't circumstantial. There's a mountain of paper evidence. n/t pnwmom Aug 2018 #30
It doesn't necessarily mean that ... Whiskeytide Aug 2018 #51
They are going with the... Adrahil Aug 2018 #55
Counting on a pardon HAB911 Aug 2018 #8
Precisely dalton99a Aug 2018 #11
Ding, ding, ding - Bingo! You said it. eom LittleGirl Aug 2018 #57
Shimon Prokupecz confirms! Leghorn21 Aug 2018 #9
It's a trick atreides1 Aug 2018 #10
Not at all. This is not all that unusual in a big paper case like this. The Velveteen Ocelot Aug 2018 #40
To everyone here who isn't a legal scholar, does this mean anything significant? bearsfootball516 Aug 2018 #12
It's a big roll of the dice gratuitous Aug 2018 #18
Juror Dzhon Smit jayschool2013 Aug 2018 #59
Not really, no jberryhill Aug 2018 #20
Suppose he's convicted of something. He's remaining in jail anyway till the next trial. pnwmom Aug 2018 #32
You seem to be deeply disappointed that a defendant is allowed to "look like an innocent person". former9thward Aug 2018 #39
I read no such disappointment in the post. phylny Aug 2018 #42
Thank you. I was just curious. I don't have a strong opinion either way. n/t pnwmom Aug 2018 #52
He'll be a convicted felon if he's convicted in the current trial. n/t pnwmom Aug 2018 #49
So? former9thward Aug 2018 #58
So I haven't had enough experience watching trials pnwmom Aug 2018 #62
They will allow him to wear "civilian" clothes. former9thward Aug 2018 #65
She just wants to know if he's allowed to wear a suit or not Takket Aug 2018 #64
Thank you, Takket. pnwmom Aug 2018 #67
He does get to "look like an innocent person" at his next trial because The Velveteen Ocelot Aug 2018 #43
The "next trial" pnwmom is referring to is after his conviction jmowreader Aug 2018 #47
He wouldn't be attending his appeal jberryhill Aug 2018 #48
Thanks for answering the question. nt pnwmom Aug 2018 #53
If true, that almost certainly means they've been promised a pardon Azathoth Aug 2018 #14
yep underthematrix Aug 2018 #27
No, not at all. There's nothing unusual about the defense resting The Velveteen Ocelot Aug 2018 #45
"Nothing unusual... when most of the evidence is on paper." Azathoth Aug 2018 #68
Paid off jury? Waiting for a pardon? Sancho Aug 2018 #17
take your pick nt d_r Aug 2018 #25
Or, his lawyers saw the evidence and decided that trying to defend him GoCubsGo Aug 2018 #33
Or he simply has run out of money to pay them. Mr.Bill Aug 2018 #36
Seth Abramson's take Danascot Aug 2018 #19
Yep. GoCubsGo Aug 2018 #35
#1 has to be it Takket Aug 2018 #66
Manafort rolled dice, came up snake-eyes poetshepherd Aug 2018 #22
Untrue. former9thward Aug 2018 #41
A motion for a judgment of acquittal, made at the close of the prosecution's case, The Velveteen Ocelot Aug 2018 #44
Mabry Manifest is confident in a pardon. Kablooie Aug 2018 #23
I'm sure Putin would had been a good witness for him. LiberalFighter Aug 2018 #24
Pardon me. C_U_L8R Aug 2018 #26
Git 'er done... next! ...nt 2naSalit Aug 2018 #28
Pardon? C Moon Aug 2018 #37
Someone is Counting on a Presidential Pardon dlk Aug 2018 #50
Not surprised Dopers_Greed Aug 2018 #56
Well, they got the judge in their pocket! ananda Aug 2018 #60
Guilty as sin workinclasszero Aug 2018 #63

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
34. I was reading online that it is not uncommon in "white collar" cases
Tue Aug 14, 2018, 01:50 PM
Aug 2018

1) they don't want Manafort to testify because the prosecution can likely rebut anything he says and make him look bad in his own defense.
2) Also, from what I was reading, the prosecution needs to prove beyond a reasonable doubt and if the defense puts on their own case, there is a small tendency for jurors to also hold the defense to that same beyond a reasonable doubt standard.
3) If the defense has a flimsy case, resting with no defense makes them look more confident than they really are.
4) If the defense puts on a case and does not call the defendant, there can be a bias against the defendant even though jurors are instructed to ignore that.


More detail here


?s=19

VMA131Marine

(4,139 posts)
54. It's not rare at all.
Tue Aug 14, 2018, 02:43 PM
Aug 2018

The burden of proof is on the prosecution and, unless there is an affirmative defense, defense counsel doesn't want to give them any more ammunition to convict their client.

olegramps

(8,200 posts)
46. After reading about the reasoning behind this, I would conclude:
Tue Aug 14, 2018, 02:25 PM
Aug 2018

He is facing an additional trial and would not want his testimony under oath to affect that outcome. Also he may be looking for a pardon or possibly a deal for testimony. The first seems to me to be the most probable. Just guessing.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,693 posts)
38. Tomorrow. They will be deciding on jury instructions today
Tue Aug 14, 2018, 01:54 PM
Aug 2018

which can take awhile. There are approved form jury instructions but the parties have to agree on which ones and which elements of each instruction to include, then the judge has to approve them. So that will probably take all afternoon.

Grammy23

(5,810 posts)
15. I'll say it is a gamble. From what has been reported,
Tue Aug 14, 2018, 12:08 PM
Aug 2018

the prosecution presented a mountain of evidence (read that as documents, not just statements from witnesses) that Manafort did, indeed, do the things he is charged with doing. And his legal team is hoping that at least one person on that jury is unimpressed by those documents that outline his crimes. Let us all hope that the members of that jury were listening, taking notes and can read. It is all there in front of them that Manafort broke the laws of the US. And for that, he will probably spend the remaining years of his miserable life behind bars. Fingers crossed.

Whiskeytide

(4,461 posts)
16. It's actually quite common. Especially ...
Tue Aug 14, 2018, 12:11 PM
Aug 2018

... where the prosecution’s case is circumstantial in some places, and where the defense is hoping for a dismissal or a directed verdict based on a technical deficiency. They would have made their substantive defenses through cross exam of the prosecutions witnesses anyway.

It might be a gamble (I’m not as up to speed on the nuts and bolts/elements of the prosecution’s case as I’d like to be), but it also allows the defense lawyers to argue to the jury that the govt’s case is so weak and insufficient that we didn’t have to put on witnesses.

Picking up popcorn on my way home tonight.

Whiskeytide

(4,461 posts)
51. It doesn't necessarily mean that ...
Tue Aug 14, 2018, 02:40 PM
Aug 2018

... there isn't a mountain of evidence in the case. I'm sure there is. But it only takes a weakness on a specific but crucial element to create a vulnerability. If the prosecution must prove elements A, B, C and D to get a conviction, they could have boat loads of evidence on A, B and D, but may have to rely on inferences and circumstantial evidence to make element C. Convictions are obtained every day on reasonable inferences and circumstantial evidence - so I'm not being a naysayer by any means. Just trying to pontificate on why the defense lawyers might decide not to put on a case.

I hope you're right. I have great confidence in Meuller's team. I suspect a conviction is likely based on what we know and what my experiences have been with US attorneys. But I have not been in the courtroom, and I have not studied the elements of the charges brought.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
55. They are going with the...
Tue Aug 14, 2018, 02:47 PM
Aug 2018

Rick Gates is lying and the Judge doesn't like the prosecutors argument.

Leghorn21

(13,524 posts)
9. Shimon Prokupecz confirms!
Tue Aug 14, 2018, 12:03 PM
Aug 2018
Defense rests in Manafort without presenting case

Paul Manafort's team will not present a case nor call
any witnesses in his defense. The defense rested at 11:53 a.m.
10:56 AM - Aug 14, 2018






WOW INDEED

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,693 posts)
40. Not at all. This is not all that unusual in a big paper case like this.
Tue Aug 14, 2018, 02:00 PM
Aug 2018

Much of the evidence is on paper and can't be refuted. The defense got to cross-examine all of the prosecution's witnesses, so that was basically the presentation of their defense. There probably are no witnesses that can refute any of the facts presented in the case in chief except for Manafort, and they wouldn't want to call him because the prosecution would eat his lunch on cross-examination - it probably would have been malpractice for the defense not to have rested at this point. The prosecution still has the burden of proving all elements of each offense beyond a reasonable doubt, which will be the basis of the defense's closing argument.

BTW, appeals based on a claim of ineffective assistance of counsel almost never succeed. It's a very low bar - the lawyer has to have been completely inept, drunk, asleep, a no-show or dead. Manafort's lawyers are, by all accounts, some of the best in their field and they seem to have done as good a job as they could, considering what they had to work with.

bearsfootball516

(6,377 posts)
12. To everyone here who isn't a legal scholar, does this mean anything significant?
Tue Aug 14, 2018, 12:03 PM
Aug 2018

Either they think they don't have a shot, or they so confident they don't want to risk blowing something?

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
18. It's a big roll of the dice
Tue Aug 14, 2018, 12:17 PM
Aug 2018

Perhaps the defense feels that the prosecution hasn't proved its case, and they're counting on the dazzling oratory of the defense counsel to raise enough questions in jurors' minds to create a reasonable doubt. The defense may also be conceding that they don't have any witnesses who will speak to Manafort's innocence of intent in his multinational financial shenanigans. The defense may have read the jury and concluded that they have at least one person who will vote not guilty.

We'll see what the defense closing argument says. That will be their last chance to present their case and show their strategy.

jayschool2013

(2,312 posts)
59. Juror Dzhon Smit
Tue Aug 14, 2018, 03:40 PM
Aug 2018

They're hoping that juror Dzhon Smit ... I mean, John Smith, who's not a Russian at all ... will vote to acquit.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
20. Not really, no
Tue Aug 14, 2018, 12:28 PM
Aug 2018

They've cross-examined all of the relevant witnesses anyway, and they are are going to argue that the prosecution hasn't proven all of the elements of all of the charged offenses.

Just because there has been, as noted above, "a mountain of evidence" doesn't mean that all of the dots have been clearly connected in the specific way that the relevant statutes require them to be connected. Where there are elements of intent, state of knowledge, causality, etc., then there are always inroads into arguing that the evidence does not necessarily show those things beyond a reasonable doubt.

I don't think it is any great surprise one way or the other if the defense did not want to call (or recall) any witnesses, but, sure, if I got paid for acting as if everything was a big deal, then I suppose I'd be saying it was a big deal.

I haven't specifically reviewed each of the counts, and each of the underlying statutes, in any great detail, but I'm reasonably certain that not of the headline writers have either. My guess is that he's likely to be found guilty of something.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
32. Suppose he's convicted of something. He's remaining in jail anyway till the next trial.
Tue Aug 14, 2018, 01:39 PM
Aug 2018

When he goes to the next trial, will they let him wear a suit and look like an innocent person, or will be arrive wearing his prison clothes?

former9thward

(32,006 posts)
39. You seem to be deeply disappointed that a defendant is allowed to "look like an innocent person".
Tue Aug 14, 2018, 01:59 PM
Aug 2018

Yes, he will be allowed a suit. Would you have him brought in chains? Do you have the same complaint about black poor defendants when they are allowed to have suit at trial?

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
62. So I haven't had enough experience watching trials
Tue Aug 14, 2018, 03:42 PM
Aug 2018

to know if when they bring a convict out of prison to try him for additional crimes, they keep him in prison clothes or not.

former9thward

(32,006 posts)
65. They will allow him to wear "civilian" clothes.
Tue Aug 14, 2018, 03:51 PM
Aug 2018

The only time people have to wear jail clothes is for jail hearings, such as bail, outside of jury matters.

Takket

(21,568 posts)
64. She just wants to know if he's allowed to wear a suit or not
Tue Aug 14, 2018, 03:49 PM
Aug 2018

Why are you taking such a patronizing tone? If you know the answer just say so and stop trying to imply she’s racist.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,693 posts)
43. He does get to "look like an innocent person" at his next trial because
Tue Aug 14, 2018, 02:09 PM
Aug 2018

the law says he IS innocent until he's proved guilty. All defendants are presumed innocent for the duration of their trials. So yes, he can wear a suit.

jmowreader

(50,557 posts)
47. The "next trial" pnwmom is referring to is after his conviction
Tue Aug 14, 2018, 02:28 PM
Aug 2018

The next time he's in court will be part of this trial, where he will properly be allowed a suit.

They'll probably allow him a suit at his appeal too.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
48. He wouldn't be attending his appeal
Tue Aug 14, 2018, 02:34 PM
Aug 2018

There's no need for him to be present at an appeal hearing.

But, yes, they aren't going to have him wearing a jumpsuit at trial. That's needlessly prejudicial.

Azathoth

(4,608 posts)
14. If true, that almost certainly means they've been promised a pardon
Tue Aug 14, 2018, 12:07 PM
Aug 2018

Or at least they have solid reason to expect one.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,693 posts)
45. No, not at all. There's nothing unusual about the defense resting
Tue Aug 14, 2018, 02:23 PM
Aug 2018

after the prosecution's case when most of the evidence is on paper. If they have no reason to call additional witnesses they'll rely on their cross-examination of the government's witnesses along with their closing argument. The possibility of a pardon, if that possibility even exists, is completely irrelevant. I am not even slightly surprised that the defense has rested.

Azathoth

(4,608 posts)
68. "Nothing unusual... when most of the evidence is on paper."
Tue Aug 14, 2018, 04:30 PM
Aug 2018

This is just flat wrong. Prosecutors love paper evidence, along with visual and physical evidence, because it's difficult to impeach; the defense usually has to call expert witnesses to get down in the weeds and muddy the waters. It's hard to discredit documents during cross unless you happen to be questioning the author (eg the accountant who prepared a financial statement, the cop who collected the bloody glove and wrote the report etc.)

Not presenting a case when the evidence against you consists primarily of hard documents means either you are convinced the documents are so weak and shabby that most people would ignore them, or you are accepting a guilty verdict for some reason.

GoCubsGo

(32,083 posts)
33. Or, his lawyers saw the evidence and decided that trying to defend him
Tue Aug 14, 2018, 01:46 PM
Aug 2018

is an act of futility? I'm guessing there was so much evidence presented against him, that was so overwhelmingly against him, they decided not to waste their time and efforts on him.

Takket

(21,568 posts)
66. #1 has to be it
Tue Aug 14, 2018, 03:52 PM
Aug 2018

Other than perjury what can you possibly say when your client is guilty as hell?

 

poetshepherd

(37 posts)
22. Manafort rolled dice, came up snake-eyes
Tue Aug 14, 2018, 12:38 PM
Aug 2018

Manafort's team was hoping Ellis would take a day or 2 to decide on their motion. Had he done so, the jury would think the government had a shaky case. Ellis could even have thrown out a few counts.

They gambled, lost. And by not calling Paulie to the stand, he looks guilty as fuck.

Prediction: acquittal on 3 charges, guilty on rest. Appeal while rotting in jail.

trump WILL NOT pardon--no upside to it for him. Manafort would have to testify w/out 5th amendment protection, fully and truthfully, which could open him up to state and civil charges [creditors].

On the bright side for Manafort: his value as a gov't witness will increase, for a brief period of time.

former9thward

(32,006 posts)
41. Untrue.
Tue Aug 14, 2018, 02:03 PM
Aug 2018

These motions are almost always made in cases like this and the judge decides almost immediately (or at the very most defers the ruling until the defense has completed their case). They never take a "day or two".

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,693 posts)
44. A motion for a judgment of acquittal, made at the close of the prosecution's case,
Tue Aug 14, 2018, 02:17 PM
Aug 2018

is simply an argument that the facts presented by the prosecution were insufficient to establish beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant committed the crime charged. These motions are routine and almost always denied, but they must be made in order to preserve that claim on appeal. The judge would have expected it. It would not have taken a day or two to prepare or decide.

Dopers_Greed

(2,640 posts)
56. Not surprised
Tue Aug 14, 2018, 02:49 PM
Aug 2018

1. They are rolling the dice and hoping that somehow the jury doesn't convict.
2. He is clearly guilty, so any additional evidence presented in the defense could just dig the hole deeper.
3. Who would they even call to his defense? Trump? Putin? Kilimnik?

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
63. Guilty as sin
Tue Aug 14, 2018, 03:43 PM
Aug 2018

So damn guilty his own defense team won’t stand up and fight for him.

Let’s hope the judges outbursts don’t get Manafort acquitted.

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