General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhen does ageism stop and common sense begin?
I'm 74 and I need to be persuaded to want someone who is 78 to be a leader of my political party for the next two years. To my eye Nancy Pelosi shows signs of the fragility of age. I know that I think more slowly, confuse things (switch opposites) and expect that to get worse as I approach 80. My 82 year old husband fogets a lot, etc. What do you all think? When does ageism stop and common sense begin?
tia
las
hlthe2b
(102,276 posts)LAS14
(13,783 posts)It's the right answer whenever we have to distinguish between stereotyping and sensible assessment of situations.
Yonnie3
(17,441 posts)That is all.
lapfog_1
(29,204 posts)I don't think I'm as sharp as I was when I was 20+ or 30+...
Yes, I have more experience and "wisdom" (I used to be so convinced that I was right and no other solution was "correct" that I would needlessly argue the point... now I allow for other solutions that someone else proposes... to get their cooperation and in recognition that there might be many different "correct" solutions).
Anyway... I tire more easily. I don't roll out of bed in the morning ready to run 5 miles. I also don't sleep as much, despite being tired.
I really don't know what it takes to be a leader of the country, President, Vice President, Speaker, etc. I rather imagine sharpness and stamina would be two aspects... along with experience and wisdom and intelligence and curiosity and judgment.
I want a new generation of leadership... people my age or younger. I want President Obama back.
I love Biden, Pelosi, and Warren. But I don't see any of them at President or Speaker now.
Freddie
(9,265 posts)Ill be 62 in 6 weeks. Mentally Im fine but physically I dont have the stamina I once had. An organization I belong to is now using google docs and sheets for everything and for the first time I just dont feel like learning yet another tech thing (word and excel work great, thank you).
I think its past time the Democratic Party actively look for new younger leadership! Especially for 2020 as our opponent will be 75. Someone under 65 PLEASE.
lapfog_1
(29,204 posts)so there is that. Formatting will not be perfect...
I have no problems learning new things (switched to google docs some 5 years ago... and I see the benefits).
Freddie
(9,265 posts)This is the first time Im like oh lord not another new thing. Probably because Im retiring from my real job in 6 months and looking forward to not having to learn endless software upgrades. Then Ill see just how bad the physical stamina is because my retirement job will be nanny to my grandkids ages 8, 4 and due in November.
Crutchez_CuiBono
(7,725 posts)I never dreamt my second half of my life would be all f'd up by this absolute screw up. I'll never see it be whole again in my lifetime, and that makes me sick to my stomach. All dt all day, everyday...on news channels. STOP w the GD trum coverage. 10 minutes in the morning is all we need. and thats too much.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)not at other people you know.
My mother-in-law was sharp as a tack and physically active till she died in her mid-nineties. Not everyone is the same.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,857 posts)Yes, there is a lot of variation in how people age. I certainly don't know Nancy Pelosi personally, so I can't offer an informed opinion on her actual robustness, but I am turning 70 myself, and I think that Democrats are making a huge mistake in sticking blindly to the same old same old.
I recall stories about Strom Thurmond, during the last years he was Senator, that he was basically too senile to understand anything that was going on, but his aides (and the Republican Party, of course) simply protected him and covered up for him. While I am NOT suggesting that Nancy Pelosi is getting senile, I think everyone needs to think long and hard about what we really want in our leadership.
Of course, no one here is going to be voting for the next Speaker of the House unless there are a couple of Representatives who post here under a screen name. So all of us simply need to support all the Democrats we can, and hope that we do take back the House and perhaps the Senate this November.
brush
(53,778 posts)joining the repugs in making her an issue.
And while we're at it we should remember that Nancy Pelosi held her caucus together through all the big legislative fightsthe tax scam, the stolen SCOTUS seat, all of them. No defections on the Dem side whereas the repugs leaders can't say that.
We need to appreciate what we have and not give the repugs an election issue by arguing about who our leader is. Let's get the election done and then the Dems in the House can decide who the leader is.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,857 posts)succumbing to Republican propaganda just because I honestly think age could be an issue here.
Perhaps you need to reread my last paragraph:
brush
(53,778 posts)Now is not the time.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,857 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"just because I honestly think age could be an issue here...."
What specifically has she done that points towards age as a concern in her case?
LisaM
(27,811 posts)I get that new blood is needed. Me, I like more of a mix. It seems that we have a number of the old guard, and a lot of newcomers, but it's the middle who are absent - the late boomers, early Gen-X in particular. I'm not sure why this is, unless it's a function of the movement towards term limits back in the 1990s, which made being a career politician less possible, along with people just not staying in the same job or career for their whole lives.
It would be ideal if we could find people representing this group, but who are they? I guess Tim Kaine is in that age group? Obama was. I like our Washington governor, Jay Inslee, but even he is in his 60s, though you'd never know it to look at him.
crazycatlady
(4,492 posts)But it seems like all of the politicians in their late 40s/early 50s are GOP. I guess this is the result of the Reagan Youth coming of age (I was a small child at the time so don't personally remember it).
Per Wiki, here are the senators born in 1960 or later (Note-- Wiki's not up to date)
72 Bob Casey, Jr. Pennsylvania April 13, 1960 D
73 Dean Heller Nevada May 10, 1960 R
74 Amy Klobuchar Minnesota May 25, 1960 D
75 Thom Tillis North Carolina August 30, 1960 R
76 John Thune South Dakota R
77 David Vitter Louisiana May 3, 1961 R (Wiki's out of date as Diaper Boy has left the senate)
78 Pat Toomey Pennsylvania R
79 Tammy Baldwin Wisconsin February 11, 1962 D
80 Steve Daines Montana August 20, 1962 R
81 Jeff Flake Arizona December 31, 1962 R
82 Rand Paul Kentucky January 7, 1963 R
83 Chris Coons Delaware September 9, 1963 D
84 Dan Sullivan Alaska November 13, 1964 R
85 Michael Bennet Colorado November 28, 1964 R
86 Tim Scott South Carolina September 19, 1965 R
87 Kirsten Gillibrand New York December 9, 1966 D
88 James Lankford Oklahoma March 4, 1968 R
89 Kelly Ayotte New Hampshire June 27, 1968 R (article is out of date)
90 Cory Booker New Jersey April 27, 1969 D
91 Joni Ernst Iowa July 1, 1970 R
92 Ted Cruz Texas December 22, 1970 R
93 Marco Rubio Florida May 28, 1971 R
94 Mike Lee Utah June 4, 1971 R
95 Martin Heinrich New Mexico D
96 Ben Sasse Nebraska February 22, 1972 R
97 Brian Schatz Hawaii October 20, 1972 D
98 Chris Murphy Connecticut August 3, 1973 D
99 Cory Gardner Colorado August 22, 1974 R
100 Tom Cotton Arkansas May 13, 1977 D
kimbutgar
(21,148 posts)nolabear
(41,963 posts)Do you value quickness or thoughtfulness? Physical strength or being smart enough to find ways of doing things that equalize abilities? Idealism driven action or action from experience? Being a newcomer or having networks that go back many years? Knowing what you and those like you want or having walked miles in many shoes? Expecting to reap the benefits of what you sew for years or thinking of future generations reaping them? Thinking of the world as it has been for twenty or thirty years or for fifty or sixty?
There are benefits and deficits on both sides. If youre smart and physically and mentally healthy and have the sense to listen and act on wise counsel I dont think age is a problem, up to a point. Im 62 and think Id be fine, though Im a different animal than when I was forty. Some better, some worse.
rzemanfl
(29,557 posts)Sorry!
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)I have a much higher belief in my abilities, in spite of age, but without experience I doubt I would do well as one of her clerical assistants. But that's because I hadn't grown into the job.
Not subject to your assumptions, I know age can bring a lot more than incompetence.
Sadly, too many people have 5, or often just really 2, years of work experience that are repeated and repeated over decades. Totally understandable if they can't imagine what a lifetime of taking on and growing with big new challenges makes of others.
I take pride looking back on my own advances with new challenges, but they are so extremely limited compared to those of almost any person who kept developing their abilities, much less the Pelosis of this world. Their biggest benefit is allowing me to at least somewhat recognize and genuinely respect that greater abilities exist in others.
LAS14
(13,783 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)and besides people like you I know there's someone who hits it repeatedly. "I'm so old and I know I couldn't do the job." If we're going to be honest, don't we all know you couldn't?
False equivalencies, LAS. Pelosi can. And hers is the only reality that matters.
tavernier
(12,388 posts)But I have to admit that my 50 year old kids are quicker, physically and mentally, and my 30 year old grandson runs circles around me both ways. On the other hand, experience and knowledge counts for a lot. I think most of us seniors instinctively know when we should step down from positions that require we be at our best. That is why I left nursing this past year.
former9thward
(32,006 posts)No one is a superwoman or superman. Older people should not be given the responsibility of many jobs which require physical stress on the body. We don't allow older people to fly commercial aircraft no matter their record or apparent ability. That is a common sense position. In our government POTUS is another of them. Speaker of the House may be another. I can't think of a older person who has done well in the POTUS position in modern times.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Or will it be another vague, bumper-sticker appeal to "common sense?"
"I can't think of a older person who has done well in the POTUS position in modern times."
I've little doubt you're unwilling to. I've little doubt (again) you'll fail to provide any evidence supporting that allegation.
snowybirdie
(5,227 posts)recently. Still feel great and am blessed. I say we leave this subject for a time we actually win the majority and leave the particular "problem" of who will be Speaker for then. Let's fight and work out hardest to win in Nov. I'm sure a mutually satisfactory solution will be decided then. Right now, it just sows dissention!
TexasBushwhacker
(20,190 posts)on to someone younger. I hope she is grooming younger representatives to take her place, but I haven't heard that's happening.
Kaleva
(36,301 posts)As for Nancy, I don't have an opinion on her. It's up to the Dems in the House to decide and I highly doubt any of them will take my opinion, if I were to have one, into consideration.
brush
(53,778 posts)together through all the big legislative battles of trump's era.
McConnell and Ryan can't say that as they've had defectors over to our side.
Let's stop helping the repugs with the anti-Pelosi issue they created and concentrate on taking back the House, then our reps will decide who their leader is after the election.
It's our business.
Kaleva
(36,301 posts)She's a non issue for me.
brush
(53,778 posts)And sorry, I meant to respond to one of the anti-Pelosi poster.
You and I are of the same mind on this.
Wwcd
(6,288 posts)Without an actual medical diagnosis this is a rather shameful thing to suggest.
Wow.
LAS14
(13,783 posts)... ,apart from early death, all human beings will come to understand.
TheFrenchRazor
(2,116 posts)decathalon winners or triathalon winners? they've got lots of stamina, so clearly they have what it takes to be good leaders of government... NOT.
LAS14
(13,783 posts)... thought can be done without time pressure. I'm not so sure about Speaker of the House.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,234 posts)LAS14
(13,783 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,234 posts)tonedevil
(3,022 posts)in real life, but you have managed to demonstrate a tremendous amount of ageism in your posts here.
LAS14
(13,783 posts)The first, Hortensis, acknowledged that she knew of no others. Can you cite some?
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)starts off ageist. You don't consider the actions and demeanor of an individual. You simply find that Minority Leader Pelosi is disqualified due to number of birthdays. The post I answered you assume someone's age and insult them for it. That is posts and if you think I care enough about you to pull up other things you have written you should disabuse yourself of that notion.
senegal1
(535 posts)Little lady too frail to (fill in the blank).
Heres your too frail showing age Nancy:
February 2018, Pelosi broke the record for longest speech in the House of Representatives when she spent more than eight hours recounting stories from DREAMers individuals who were brought to the United States as minors by undocumented immigrants to object to a budget deal which would raise spending caps without addressing the future of DACA recipients, which were at risk of deportation by the Trump administration...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nancy_Pelosi
Common sense would say this is woman full of fire.
GeorgeGist
(25,321 posts)not a moment before.
dflprincess
(28,078 posts)My niece's husband's grandmother is about to turn 100. Sharp as a tack. Some physical fragility because of her advanced old age but I'd trust her to lead us, despite her physical issues.
As it is, we're wishing she'd get a job as the Twins general manager, she knows her baseball (and hockey) and does a better job of tracking changes to the roster than I do. (Though the staff at her assisted living facility has learned not to take her blood pressure with the Twins or Wild are playing badly.)
LAS14
(13,783 posts)... than the upcoming young generation even if she's forgotten all she knew.
I think that's true, but would be of most value in a society where age was respected enough to benefit from its wisdom without very old people having to hang on to official office.