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MineralMan

(146,308 posts)
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 03:37 PM Aug 2018

Unlike Some, I Will Not Attack John McCain as He Lies Dying

That would violate my basic ethical compass. I could find bad things to say about him, as well as good ones. I will comment on neither. His passing will be an event, like the passing of everyone. Some will mourn him. Some will not. I will simply mark his passing as the end of someone's life. At a time like that, I have nothing to contribute by either praising him or damning him.

He was a man of some note. His name is widely recognized. He will be remembered in various ways. Dignitaries will attend his funeral. His family and friends will attend as well. I will not, because I am none of those things. I will simply note his passing. It is an event we all face, and it should pass without a great deal of commentary, I believe.

Here on DU, we are familiar with him, and he has been the topic of discussion here in the past. Now, he is dying. There's not much to discuss about that. It's a common enough event. So, I won't belabor his life. It is almost over. Let the man die and his family and friends mourn. It is none of my business, really.

59 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Unlike Some, I Will Not Attack John McCain as He Lies Dying (Original Post) MineralMan Aug 2018 OP
K&R... spanone Aug 2018 #1
K&R CatMor Aug 2018 #2
I can't believe Armymedic88 Aug 2018 #3
It's not really a political matter at this point. MineralMan Aug 2018 #7
Just so you know, I plan to dance on Trump's grave. flibbitygiblets Aug 2018 #36
Better take a number Jake Stern Aug 2018 #54
LOL I see your point flibbitygiblets Aug 2018 #56
Im in line now MFM008 Aug 2018 #58
I'm with you, MM... Wounded Bear Aug 2018 #4
Why not start... NCTraveler Aug 2018 #5
I prefer to let the man die. We can discuss him as a historical MineralMan Aug 2018 #8
"I prefer to let the man die." NCTraveler Aug 2018 #10
You know, I'm just saying what I do. I'm not telling you what to do. MineralMan Aug 2018 #12
I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him. The Velveteen Ocelot Aug 2018 #6
Yes snowybirdie Aug 2018 #9
Common decency isn't as common as one would hope, even on DU Hekate Aug 2018 #11
Well, at 73 years of age, I'm always aware that one day, MineralMan Aug 2018 #13
Well said. CentralMass Aug 2018 #17
Agreed. MrScorpio Aug 2018 #14
K&R CentralMass Aug 2018 #15
maybe some here edhopper Aug 2018 #16
The media will say what it says. MineralMan Aug 2018 #18
You are a better man edhopper Aug 2018 #48
I agree. nt Crabby Appleton Aug 2018 #19
K & R all american girl Aug 2018 #20
K & R, MineralMan ailsagirl Aug 2018 #22
As much as he's pissed me off over the years, gay texan Aug 2018 #21
K & R and a thank you! pazzyanne Aug 2018 #23
Same here... I refuse to say anything negative about a man who is dying, and who served our country secondwind Aug 2018 #24
When a person of note passes ... Martin Eden Aug 2018 #25
Agreed, thank you. CaptainTruth Aug 2018 #26
Absolutely agree with what you wrote. Enoki33 Aug 2018 #27
I trust Drumpf will not get the same consideration when he dies lying. He sure won't from me. n/t rzemanfl Aug 2018 #28
Key difference Jake Stern Aug 2018 #55
True and Drumpf will lie with his dying breath. n/t rzemanfl Aug 2018 #59
Agreed and recommended. guillaumeb Aug 2018 #29
Scene: John McCain's AZ Office Eliot Rosewater Aug 2018 #30
It was a decent reaction in 2008 and even more so now question everything Aug 2018 #31
Trump would have made that disheveled old woman his press secretary flibbitygiblets Aug 2018 #37
That was classy. jcgoldie Aug 2018 #52
Though I will not glorify McCain PatSeg Aug 2018 #32
K&R RelativelyJones Aug 2018 #33
https://www.youtube.com/watch?vscpqae3P7Dg&index1&listRDscpqae3P7Dg luvallpeeps Aug 2018 #34
In my time of dying. PufPuf23 Aug 2018 #35
I thinks most Dems sympathize for him and his family. Is it fair to critique his career that may Pepsidog Aug 2018 #38
I agree. He was a fine man, decent, a family man, brave & honorable military career. Honeycombe8 Aug 2018 #39
Three paragraphs to say nothing oberliner Aug 2018 #40
And you took the time to MineralMan Aug 2018 #42
Well I did read all three paragraphs oberliner Aug 2018 #43
USS Forrestal fire Submariner Aug 2018 #41
And shot down over Vietnam and greatly tortured by the NVA. john657 Aug 2018 #47
THANKS for posting this Raine Aug 2018 #44
He was bigger than life MurrayDelph Aug 2018 #45
No true liberal involves themselves in grave dancing over partisan differences. phleshdef Aug 2018 #46
He Was A Hero colsohlibgal Aug 2018 #49
Mienralman, Neither will I lovemydogs Aug 2018 #50
War Hero John McCain's Great Deeds And Service To This Country Velshi & Ruhle stonecutter357 Aug 2018 #51
Well written, MM....nt Heartstrings Aug 2018 #53
Agree 100%, MM liberaltrucker Aug 2018 #57
 

Armymedic88

(251 posts)
3. I can't believe
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 03:42 PM
Aug 2018

Any true Dem would use repuke tactics of attacking someone on their death bed! 100% agree with your post! Thank you

MineralMan

(146,308 posts)
7. It's not really a political matter at this point.
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 03:48 PM
Aug 2018

It has more to do with the recognition of that passage as the end of a life - something we all face for ourselves and in those we know. Respect for life itself, I think, demands that we let that passage happen without much comment if we do not actually know the person ourselves. Whoever the dying person was, that no longer is the case near and at the end. It is just another person passing out of existence.

flibbitygiblets

(7,220 posts)
36. Just so you know, I plan to dance on Trump's grave.
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 05:55 PM
Aug 2018

In fact I'm taking dancing lessons in sweet, sweet anticipation that he chokes on a bucket of KFC very soon.


Wounded Bear

(58,656 posts)
4. I'm with you, MM...
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 03:43 PM
Aug 2018

there are some that I might go that route, but John is not really on that list.

Let his family mourn in peace.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
5. Why not start...
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 03:47 PM
Aug 2018

Unlike some of you, I will not make up praise for John McCain as he lies dying.

I have seen numerous posts that absolutely rewrite history for him in a positive manner. I have also seen him unjustly criticized.

It's a great time to talk about his body of work. And when talking about the last couple of decades, it can be described as shit.

You highlight your lack of personal connection. His death shouldn't have such a strong impact on your ability to speak honestly about him.

MineralMan

(146,308 posts)
8. I prefer to let the man die. We can discuss him as a historical
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 03:50 PM
Aug 2018

figure later. We discussed him during his active live. This is a brief period, the act of dying. There's no need, nor benefit, to discussing him now. That's my opinion.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
10. "I prefer to let the man die."
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 03:53 PM
Aug 2018

You don't have the ability to stop it.

"There's no need, nor benefit, to discuss him now."

This is when politicians careers are most often rewritten for the positive. McCain will garner almost no news after the next month. Almost no mentions. This is the end.

MineralMan

(146,308 posts)
12. You know, I'm just saying what I do. I'm not telling you what to do.
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 04:10 PM
Aug 2018

It's not really an invitation to an argument.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,693 posts)
6. I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 03:48 PM
Aug 2018

The evil that men do lives after them while the good is oft interred with their bones.

I’m not going to attack him on his deathbed.

Hekate

(90,686 posts)
11. Common decency isn't as common as one would hope, even on DU
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 04:02 PM
Aug 2018

Let the man pass in peace, let his family and friends grieve -- and for gods' sake, let his body at least cool.

We can be better than this.

MineralMan

(146,308 posts)
13. Well, at 73 years of age, I'm always aware that one day,
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 04:13 PM
Aug 2018

my wife will log on as me here on DU and mention that I won't be around any more. It won't matter to me what people say in reply to that post, but it will to her. Anyone's death is a time for simply recognizing that someone has lived and lives no more. There's plenty of time before that and sometime after that to sing the person's praises or write condemnatory words.

As you say, it's a matter of common decency.

MineralMan

(146,308 posts)
18. The media will say what it says.
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 04:19 PM
Aug 2018

I may or may not agree with what is said. I speak only for myself. When someone dies, I keep any negative judgment of that person to myself for a time, if I have negative things to say. If I have praise, I might express that, but not negativity. It's not the time for that.

gay texan

(2,448 posts)
21. As much as he's pissed me off over the years,
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 05:20 PM
Aug 2018

I can't wish him Ill on his death bed.

He was instrumental (along with John Kerry) in getting the remains of US personnel returned from Vietnam bringing closure to a lot of people. He did good in that instance, and I thank him for that.

A lot of things he has done I won't forgive him for, but I can only hope he has a moment of clarity before he goes.

secondwind

(16,903 posts)
24. Same here... I refuse to say anything negative about a man who is dying, and who served our country
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 05:24 PM
Aug 2018

both during war and in government service.

Martin Eden

(12,867 posts)
25. When a person of note passes ...
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 05:24 PM
Aug 2018

... it is appropriate to reflect on the life of that person.

Honestly and objectively, with the intent to understand the person in the context of public life and influence.

Good, bad, or complicared mix, let the truth be told.

Jake Stern

(3,145 posts)
55. Key difference
Sat Aug 25, 2018, 01:02 AM
Aug 2018

McCain gave us 23 years of his life in the US Navy (1958-1981), including 5 1/2 years as a POW during which he lost much use of his arms.

Trump hasn't given America a damn thing.

Eliot Rosewater

(31,112 posts)
30. Scene: John McCain's AZ Office
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 05:32 PM
Aug 2018

- a frail, obviously sick Senator looks into the camera and says : "My fellow Americans, before I embark on the final "campaign" of life, let me tell you Donald Trump is an illegitimate president, a traitor and a criminal. It is now time for any Republican who refuses to do his or her job in removing him, to be removed themselves by YOU the voter"

This is what I wish he would do, but if he doesnt, hats off to a survivor who survived a long time because that is what my Father would have said, so in my father's memory:

hats off

question everything

(47,479 posts)
31. It was a decent reaction in 2008 and even more so now
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 05:32 PM
Aug 2018

when he campaigned and a woman in the audience was lamenting that Obama was an Arab (I think, not that it should have mattered) and he replied: no ma'am. He is a decent patriot with whose opinions I disagree. (Some thing like that).


flibbitygiblets

(7,220 posts)
37. Trump would have made that disheveled old woman his press secretary
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 05:57 PM
Aug 2018

which now that I think of it, would have been preferable to Suckabee Slanders.

jcgoldie

(11,631 posts)
52. That was classy.
Sat Aug 25, 2018, 12:24 AM
Aug 2018

And despite often being disappointed in him... I am glad that he never rolled over for Trump the way Graham has.

PatSeg

(47,430 posts)
32. Though I will not glorify McCain
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 05:33 PM
Aug 2018

just because he is dying (something I find very offensive), I certainly will not dredge up everything negative feeling I have had about the man. Surely we can treat him and his family with compassion and dignity, as I think that reflects who most of us are.

All that said, I will say that McCain had some shining moments, moments that pitted him against his own party many times. I wish there had been more, but at least he gave us the "thumbs down" when it really counted.

I am so tired of being angry, so I am going to reserve that anger for those who deserve it the most right now.

I have to say you will not hear me say any of this when Trump passes. There are exceptions to every rule.

Pepsidog

(6,254 posts)
38. I thinks most Dems sympathize for him and his family. Is it fair to critique his career that may
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 05:59 PM
Aug 2018

have caused life and death situations for many? I think, at least as DU is concerned, it would be rare to see a malicious, mean spirited attack on the man. We have a lot more class than if the shoe were on the Republican foot. I can’t forgive him for Palin but sure do appreciate the thumbs down on the ACA repeal vote. I wonder if he were not sick, would he have still voted that way.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
39. I agree. He was a fine man, decent, a family man, brave & honorable military career.
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 06:02 PM
Aug 2018

I disagreed with him policy-wise, but as a person, he was as good as any of us are. And respect is called for, when someone is dying.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
43. Well I did read all three paragraphs
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 06:16 PM
Aug 2018

So I felt a duty to post a response. Apologize for the snark, but that was my take.

Submariner

(12,504 posts)
41. USS Forrestal fire
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 06:04 PM
Aug 2018

For those interested, McCain appears at time 05:32. It was amazing he survived the flight deck fire.

[link:

|
 

john657

(1,058 posts)
47. And shot down over Vietnam and greatly tortured by the NVA.
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:13 PM
Aug 2018

It's a tribute to his will to live that he survived the USS Forrestal fire and being a POW.

MurrayDelph

(5,294 posts)
45. He was bigger than life
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:03 PM
Aug 2018

He did some really shitty things, and was frequently stubborn.

But he also stopped the woman during his rally who called Obama "an Arab"

He held a grudge for quite a while for losing the Presidency, but eventually worked for what he thought was a better country.

And if it weren't for him, my wife would not have health insurance right now.

So, in the long run, he was human.

That's more than what we can say about most of the remaining Republicans in Washington.

colsohlibgal

(5,275 posts)
49. He Was A Hero
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 11:58 PM
Aug 2018

I think anyone who is republican is misguided but some are a little less misguided and way more honorable. He did stand up to Orange Creep and that puts him way up on toadies like Mitch McChinless and Ayn Rand devotee Paul Ryan.

And what that idiot said about him not being a hero because he was captured was unconscionable.

And anyone who voted for him, who thought he was of White House caliber, has something wrong with their thought process. He is an embarrassment to our Country, a disgrace.

lovemydogs

(575 posts)
50. Mienralman, Neither will I
Sat Aug 25, 2018, 12:04 AM
Aug 2018

I come from a time and from a family where attacking a dying or dead person is unseemly.
They cannot do anything about it to fight back.
Attacking them, someone dying or dead, is for people like Trump.
At this time, we should be decent, have some class and show a sense of our own honor.
I find attacking a dying person cheap

liberaltrucker

(9,129 posts)
57. Agree 100%, MM
Sat Aug 25, 2018, 01:29 AM
Aug 2018

I recall during Pat Nixon's funeral, the networks showed Mr Nixon sobbing
uncontrollably. As much as I hated Richard Nixon, the President, I had
empathy for Richard Nixon, the human being.

However, if I'm alive when Trump buys the farm, all bets are off.

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