Hi, Horsey. Biden is a god and fair leader.

I would agree with that in terms of past senators.

from the 1990s when he was head of the judiciary committee and trying to function in a new conservative climate by supporting things like the three strikes law?

Let's take a clear look at Senator McCain, Oberliner: John McCain was a very strong economic conservative who spent his 35 years in congress working for the economic rights of the wealthy against ordinary Americans and attempting to eliminate most of the New Deal, employee and labor laws, and so on.

We think he's a good guy mostly because he was not a nasty, bigoted social conservative, and yes, that part of him was good, even though he also supported devastating Republican laws as required.
But half a man does not make the person a liberal fit to be a Democrat. It didn't make him someone who left an increasingly corrupt and extreme Republican Party to work for what he believed in through the Democratic Party -- as Elizabeth Warren did. He did not.

And imo, comparing Joe Biden with him, even with his blemished record, is to denigrate Senator Biden and all that he stands for that McCain did not. I would also, of course, strongly object to insulting Elizabeth Warren with that comparison, although she is economically fairly conservative. If McCain had her character and principles, he might have changed parties with her and spent these past 20 years serving the people genuinely honorably as she has.

MLK day as a holiday too.

1 day's production lost, profits down.

McCain's senate was also against all other mandatory rights to time off, including vacation days off, flexible schedules, maternity leave, and so on. Not just federal -- McCain's senate has tried to block states from protecting these rights also.

As a result, Americans work far more hours per year than any other advanced nation. A 32 hour work week or less is normal in Europe. EU citizens are legislated a minimum of 20 vacation days per year and a 5-day work week.

This is just a fraction of the ways labor practices and rights have been taken away during McCain's time in congress. We can be fired for no reason and most have no right to sue in court, no matter how unjust the firing. Since McCain entered congress.

A cheated employee can be one of 100, but cannot sue collectively, or even arbitrate collectively. Each of these examples has many other associated rights taken away to erase the gains of most of the last century. And almost all of this was done after McCain entered congress in 1983.

But there is no doubt he loves his country and has spent his lifetime serving the country.
So yes, I think he is a perfect example of “our McCain”

passionately too, and by the time he finishes his presidency he'll have spent as long in government as McCain. A flawed man but perfect example to stand alongside "our Biden?"

Is there really no need to consider the rest of these men? The extremely different beliefs they gave their professional lives to not worth examining compared to their love for their country?
Their extremely conflicting legacies small potatoes next to the years of service spent creating them?

Speaking of, in 3 months we owe our next annual payment on our new $1.6 trillion debt to the wealthy. If the Republicans haven't left enough in our national kitty to meet it (that IS the plan, too), the money will be TAKEN automatically from funds already allocated to social programs meant to serve us.

But please don't compare McCain's and Pence's parts in that incredibly huge, baldfaced theft with Biden's, and please don't blame the suffering any cuts will cause also on Biden because they all share patriotism and service. That is a dreadfully false equalization..

He only loves himself and xtian assholes.

And Biden was seems to have been forgotten. Biden made a shift for the tenure of Obama’s term but it’s hard to look at that as he was carrying someone else’s message. No accountability. People remember Biden these days from his time as VP, when it comes to ideology.

Love the guy. I don’t think he would make it past the first couple of states in a primary considering where the party is positioned today.

and he said the DEms didn't have anyone with the stature of McCain on their side. He often says non-thinking and ignorant things like this. Forgetting Vietnam vet Kerry, the wonderful Dem presidents who always have to raise this country out of the mess that the Cons make. I remember the financial crisis in 2008 and how ready PBO was with answers and ability. The Senator not so much (no disrespect to the dead), but truth is truth.

There have been great men on the DEm side and Tweety embarrassed himself with suggesting there weren't and aren't.

And Senator John Lewis and Tammy Duckworth..... honorable people who put their lives on the line for a cause they believed in. How many politicians can say that?

The Dems have a history of great men & women, those who saved this nation and held it up time and again. There are brave men and women out there now working for a better America and running for office. There have been no Cons at this time who have walked their brave talk such as Flake, Corker and sadly, the now dead Senator. What action did they take and generate against the perniciousness that seems to have overtaken our country.?

due to his service in Vietnam.

Biden's our man.

I'm asking if there is a parallel (or similar) figure to John McCain but on the Democratic Party side.

Joe Biden was one response given that seems reasonable.

D o you have some point to make, or possibly an agenda of some sort?

Not only did she lose both legs in combat, she's also the first senator to give birth while in office.

Malcom Nance thinks she should run forr president.

Amazing and inspiring in many ways.

Let's face it, it's an insult to McCain and what he believed in also. Neither are or were frivolous about their beliefs, their character, and the party they chose -- his became progressively and intensely corrupt over the entire period in congress. Hers has not.

Now, I'd guess the closest to a serious answer might be Senator Joe Manchin. He's socially decent but economically conservative, but far more honest, responsible and decentoverall than the typical Republican senator. For instance, he opposes such things as privatizing Social Security and supports higher taxes on the wealthy. He opposes the atrocities against immigrants. He voted against the Tax Heist.

However, McCain was a leader in the intensely corrupted and progressively more extreme Republican party, which intends to "privatize" (destroy) Social Security and of course cut taxes drastically for the wealthy. McCain supported all that and one of his last votes was for the Tax Heist. He opposed the atrocities against immigrants.

So suggesting Senator Manchin is like one of the best of a bad lot would be doing Manchin a grave injustice also.

We could use a sign over our TVs: IT'S THE VOTE, STUPID. How we and they vote is what matters. McCain wasn't our next-door neighbor. He was a U.S. Senator, and his legacy is his 35 years of votes in congress.

You seem to take it to mean which Dem shares McCain's political ideology (i.e., conservative).

By contrast, I (and most others in this thread) took the OP to refer to a Dem that shares McCain's personal attributes: war-hero status, patriotism over partisanship, strongly held core beliefs, and a willingness to fight for them.

By that interpretation of the question, no, it is NOT a "grave insult" to Tammy by any means. Indeed, I venture to say she would be honored by the comparison.

Strange that anyone would interpret it differently - seems pretty obvious and straightforward.

It is. The other interpretation would never have occurred to me.

decisions profoundly changed our nation so that half of all Americans are now far poorer than we were, our large middle class shrunk and new centimillionaire and billionaire classes usurping our national wealth and political sovereignty.

He entered congress in 1983 as one of a wave of conservatives elected at the end of the progressive New Deal era and has been trying to dismantle most progressive advances that serve the people and protect the people from predatory business through regulation ever since.

Why on earth anyone would choose to define McCain by 5 years as a prisoner of war 50 years ago and ignore his entire political career, I can't imagine. What he did then was admirable. But it does not make up for the declines in our incomes or overcome the massive election thefts that require us to outvote Republicans by 10% in order to more than break even in congress.

HOW could any DEMOCRAT imagine that misusing senatorial power in a relentless 25-year transfer of power and wealth from the people to wealthy ruling classes and to increasingly authoritarian governments was somehow a patriotic and nonpartisan act?

Trumpsters, yes. Their outrage at taxing all those deserving wealthy people more than you or I pay per year arise from their authoritarian loyalty to their leaders. Kissing up to their betters, wealthy people like McCain, and kicking down to their inferiors come very naturally to them. It's equality authoritarians don't understand or approve of, and they are the ones who sent McCain to DC and kept him there.

What on earth are you doing?

Used to be John Glenn, perhaps Daniel Inouye also.

Last edited Sun Sep 2, 2018, 02:03 PM - Edit history (1)

I’m not sure if we’re looking for someone out of step with their party, or someone who is valorized for military service here.

we celebrate McCain because good people in the GOP are actually rare.

Nt

of normalizing US/Vietnam relations, maybe.

but he also voted in lockstep for judges who overturned/weakened McCain-Feingold. Just sayin'

He opposed Citizens United -- I doubt he knew the judges he voted for would overturn his signature bill..Just sayin'.

After crafting McCain-Feingold McCain voted to confirm John Roberts and Samuel Alito, both members of the Federalist Society. Both were opposed to campaign finance reform, both voted for the plainiffs in Citizens United, along with Thomas, Kennedy and Scalia.

Did he not know who they were, and how they were likely to decide? If he didn't he was lousy at his job, or couldn't connect the dots. Either way, not "both true."

He likely agreed with their other positions -- didn't signify his desire to overturn his own bill -- You have a nice day, now.

He "likely agreed with their other positions" but just didn't care about their stance on his signature bill?


yeah, OK

He could CARE, but not believe their stances would be mirrored by the rest of the court to the extent of creating a plurality..
.Are we getting it now? If not, I'm afraid I'll have to let you figure it out yourself, as I, at least, do intend to have a nice day .Buh bye.

I think some combination of Kerry, Biden, and Duckworth.

none of them...

Kerry and Duckworth are combat veterans who have demonstrated heroism and who have suffered loss as a result of their service

I realize it is NOT the same thing.

Democrats don't vote the way that McCain did.

It would be someone who votes with Democrats as often as McCain voted with Republicans, but who has the qualities of McCain that are being highlighted at his memorial services.

Personally, I think Biden has been the most apt response thus far.

republicans in congress. There are far more independent voices on the left, whereas republicans make a conscious effort to speak in one voice all the time, on all issues. That is why McCain stood out, because he was known to go against the party line and didn't speak in their prepared talking points language.

What McCain did on the right is relatively common on the left, because Democrats don't have a sheep mentality. Joe Biden would be a good example, but there are many others. It is often hard to find equivalency between republicans and Democrats. They are like a different species.

If we're looking for someone who stands by his moral code - it's Carter.

Manchin, Jones, Heitkamp, et al

An irascible, posturing warmonger who is inconsistent and overly ambitious (see Sarah Palin and the desire to win at all costs)?

Why would we want our own version?

"By contrast, I (and most others in this thread) took the OP to refer to a Dem that shares McCain's personal attributes: war-hero status, patriotism over partisanship, strongly held core beliefs, and a willingness to fight for them."

I believe that was a VERY strongly held belief of McCain's. When he wasn't confusing which countries were Sunni and which were Shia.

That is almost an endorsement of war.

Obviously Clinton famously did not go to Vietnam, but where he is the same is that he, like McCain, was a huge favorite of many in the media who delighted in his openness and willingness to engage with them, his charisma which led to people accepting decisions - like his crime or welfare bill - that they would have fought like crazy if they were a Republican president's bills. Between those bills and his reduction of regulation especially in the banking sector, Clinton had as many issues where he backed essentially Republican positions as McCain had issues where he was close to the Democratic side.

Not to mention, where Mccain's credibility, narrative and persona were to a large degree based on his military and particularly his POW experience, Clinton benefited from the American meme of someone starting with nothing - the son of a poor single mother who by virtue of his intelligence, his determination and his charm rose to the top. Both McCain and Clinton benefited from these simple memes that defined them and let people feel they understood and could identify with them.

One difference is that, even though Clinton in many ways deserved the title of the best Republican President, he is mostly hated by all Republicans, where Mccain is respected by the majority of Democrats ... and hated by a significant portion of the far right.

My second choice was Biden, like McCain and Clinton, he had life events that made people see him as a person and to sympathize and identify with him. In addition, he was a favorite of the belt way press because of his infectious good will. Like Clinton, he was a centrist - rather than a liberal.

I think those elements - rather than military service per se - define to me someone "like McCain". This is why I did not pick John Kerry, a war hero as much as McCain. In some ways, Kerry's honesty and his inclination to be an activist - in spite of being from birth a member of the elite, make for a much more complicated story. Even as Senator, he took on investigating what the US did backing the Contras and BCCI which had become a major banker to global criminals including non state terrorists. (Oddly, the Onion captured that duality when he was SoS when they wrote of serious, dapper, incredibly diplomatic SoS as a James Bond hero.) Add to that complicated story that his priviledged life - where he spent summers on the coast of France with grandparents with an estate there or on a Forbes family island off Martha's Vineyard - was easy to mock and hard for people to see as related to their life. Add that Kerry's natural reserve meant that he never was a media favorite.

...this is an absurd post, yes?

Maybe you're actually highlighting the absurdity of Democrats overly praising McCain for his politics.

There is no “similar” Democratic Party member

The better question IMHO is, are there any (other) living Republicans like John McCain? And, at least at the moment, I can't think of any. Maybe Lindsey Graham at one time but he seems to have flipped to become a full-blown Trumpist. George HW Bush and Colin Powell and a few older out-of-office Republicans, maybe?

I feel like trying to compare McCain to Democrats is kind of like comparing Apples to Oranges, not to mention that I'm also unsure of whether or not you're talking about his *actual* record vs. his idealized mythological record.

When I think of McCain, I think primarily of these 4 things:

1) suffering 5+ years of torture (the main reason I hold back somewhat in my criticism of McCain--I can't imagine going through what he went through)

2) a horrific voting record overall (let's be honest, he caused much more harm than help)

3) being one of the many anti-Trump Republicans who don't/didn't accept that 50 years of Republican policy and rhetoric led directly to the rise of Trump

4) him being widely considered a "moderate," which speaks to how utterly insane our society has become (see #2), and to how much Republicans have been able to move the Overton Window in recent decades

So, there's no need for a Democratic Party version of McCain.

As for the concept known as "patriotism," I share Robert Jensen's thoughts: http://robertwjensen.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Citizens-of-the-Empire-Chapter-3-Patriotism-pdf.pdf

If you want a principled, no nonsense, servant of the people who believes in enfranchising the voters.

No military service, but I assume you're not looking for even a fraternal twin

John McCain was unusual because he refused to always march in lockstep and was willing to occasionally buck the status quo in a party that enforces obedience and conformity above all else.

The Democratic Party doesn’t roll like that. We are a diverse group open to different views and tolerate - even expect and welcome - dissenting opinions because we know that makes us better and stronger. So we don’t need a John McCain in the way the Republicans do. And our outspoken members don’t stand out as he did because it’s not unusual for Democrats to speak up against the majority in our party or to take a different approach or reach out to the other side.

John McCain was John McCain not just because of the kind of person he was but because he was the kind of person he was in a party that doesn’t encourage or tolerate those who don’t think and behave in full accord with the majority. The Democrats don’t have a John McCain because, thanks to the very nature of our party, who and what we are, we don’t need one.

nt

If by voting record, no one comes to mind who compares in any neat way.

If by military service, we've had democrats who served - McCain is special because he was a POW.

I'm seeing some references to Bill Clinton and Biden. Biden is perhaps the last third-way democrat around but even then I'd hesitate to make comparisons, especially with the way Biden has evolved.

Of course, people love to think bill clinton was republican, while ignoring that his presidency reflected the effects of 2 strong Reagan terms and how that impacted electoral dynamics. Analysis like this also completely ignores the context of 90's politics.

I can't even call bill "republican lite" . His court appointments were VERY liberal - Ginsburg and Breyer.
We also forget now how determined Gingrich was to destroy the Social Safety Net, the pushback against healthcare reform, and the insane bills the Republicans put on Clinton's desk, so much so he liberally used line-item veto ( now unconstitutional as far as I know) He had to constantly veto crazy from Gingrich's budgets. He even called the welfare bill a shit sandwich.

I really can't name anyone who is quite like McCain on our side, you'll need to define what McCain personifies for you and if you think he represents a political archetype where comparisons can be applied to other politicians.

I was shocked at the slanderous lies that were spread about John Kerry when he ran for President. He has a record of honor and vigor and intelligence and compassion, both in military service and in his political career.

In a few years.

Former prosecutor, meticulous, fearless, honorable.

Also a great choice.

Newbie but goodie.

US Representative, Pennsylvania. He's a Marine with a JD from U-Penn, and he was a Prosecutor.

Check him out.