to a subpoena and testify.

Trumpster. Here is the problem. Like their dear leader, Trumpsters love to provoke the Left. Trumpsters don’t give a shit how we respond. That is not the point to their motivation. Therefore, before you get on your high horse and preach to us about how to frame a debate with a Trumpster, I would like to respectfully ask you to reconsider what makes a Trumpster tick. (HINT: It is not a well thought out debate response that they are interested in.)

and when I discuss politics, it's in large groups. But in even in smaller groups, you can humiliate a Trumpster, leave them speechless and convince some middle of the roaders who watch the discussion.

And your advice that I reconsider how to speak with a Trumpster is the only condescending post in this entire thread.

P.S.: I never suggested how you should reconsider debating a Trumpster. I suggested that you might not know what makes a Trumpster tick enough to think you can tell the rest of us how to frame a debate with a Trumpster.

Last edited Sun Sep 2, 2018, 08:30 PM - Edit history (1)

Let me tell you what I do for a living. I am on 2 Union Pacs. I work full time for a local here in Boston. I conduct discussions in large and small groups of union workers. I am also an organizer, so I talk all day, 2 or 3 days a week to all kinds of union workers, or potential union workers.

I try to explain why union workers should vote for Democrats, or, in the very rare occasion, union friendly Republicans. Here in Massachusetts, there's a couple.

In the audience there are always Trumpsters ready to take me on. I don't need to convince them, but there are scores of newly registered voters or some truly uncommitted people in my audiences.

The best way to convince the audience is to throw Trump's words into the Trumpster's face. Trump said only guilty people take the fifth. Remember that? When some of Hillary's aides did it. That's why the 5th argument works. When a no good Trumpster talks about our great economy, I point out the average wage went up 2.7% in a year, while inflation went up 2.9%, a 0.2% decrease in real wage growth. I remind him (and the Trumpster is usually a him) that the deficit has doubled under Trump since the millionaire tax break and how that tax "reform" fucked all of us in Massachusetts. I ask the Trumpster if this is infra-structure week again, and if it even passes, whether Davis-Bacon will be included. Even if we get an infra-structure bill Trump has said he won't support Davis-Bacon. Something about private investments. If the Trumpster asks what Davis-Bacon is, well, I know I will humiliate him. I remind him that the rallies now never include the chant that Mexico will pay for the wall or that there is more corruption in this administration than any other since the tea pot dome scandal, and that includes Nixon. I remind the Tradesmen in the room that all their licenses, which make their lives better and pay a living union wage, are actually regulations. The same type of regulations that keep them safe on the work site, like OSHA. That workmen's comp is a regulation, and well, you get the point. If you look at my original post, humiliating them was on my agenda.

In the end, you can rest assured that I win the day all the time. I may not change every mind in the room, but I do pretty well. I'm 66 years old this month and I've been doing what I'm doing for the IBEW and the AFL-CIO for over 20 years.

So, please, don't tell me my business. I know it, I'm good at it and I will continue to share with DUers what I see working in the field.

after all, you challenged that I might not have the credentials to make suggestions.

now, you have a little more information to make your judgement.

Totally meaningless. This has gone full circle.....LOL

OJ Simpson's jury unanimously fond him not guilty of all charges. How many average people feel the same way?

We're not on a jury. You perfectly exemplify our problem. The other side is fighting in the court of public opinion, and you want us to act like we're the ACLU in a court of law.

Trump doesn't want to testify because he's guilty. That's our story. It's easier to understand and we have to convince Neanderthals.

You make a great point if we have to convince Harvard Professors. But there's a reason why Trump is leading in only one category in the current polls. That category is white men without a college education. That's the audience we have to convince and we ain't doing that with your link.

we have people wrongfully incarcerated (on the one hand) - after all they had nothing to hide and only a guilty person wouldn't agree to speak with the police They spoke with the police, and managed to dig themselves in a hole with police/prosecutors who had prejudged their guilt. ON the flip side, there is also occasionally violence committed against people found not guilty by people who were certain their silence (among other things) meant they were guilty.

It's not just for Harvard Professors - it is a general message that everyone needs to understand, and I'm not willing to sacrifice the reality that silence - in many cases - is just plain common self-protection (even when you have done nothing wrong) in order to score a political victory.

is why we have a Hitler in the White House.

It's one issue and it's one dictator. If we lose the mid-terms and Trump remains for six more years, we both may be arguing the nuances of this discussion in adjoining cells, arrested for political crimes