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busterbrown

(8,515 posts)
Sat Sep 8, 2018, 06:10 PM Sep 2018

Holy Crap! USA Woman's Tennis Championship.

If you didn't watch.. Get to Espn..Amazing .

Serena lost a point ... Code Violation .. She went absolutely nuts.. Game point was given to her opponent and her opponent (Japanese Player) won next point which gave her the Championship..
Naiomi Osaka .. Chris Everette... Stating never saw anything like it

Complicated situation.... Wow!

68 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Holy Crap! USA Woman's Tennis Championship. (Original Post) busterbrown Sep 2018 OP
Serena's coach admitted he was coaching from the stands. stopbush Sep 2018 #1
To whom did he admit it? DURHAM D Sep 2018 #4
He admitted it in a post-match interview. stopbush Sep 2018 #9
Yep... Stated Perfectly! busterbrown Sep 2018 #5
So? Why attempt to make an example out of her for the first time in decades? ecstatic Sep 2018 #19
Nadal has received code violations for coaching back to at least 2010. stopbush Sep 2018 #22
That was not why she lost. It did not decide the match. nt USALiberal Sep 2018 #26
I would agree.. busterbrown Sep 2018 #35
True. nt USALiberal Sep 2018 #39
'You stole a point from me, you're a thief too' Scurrilous Sep 2018 #2
So, will she now apologize? janterry Sep 2018 #6
Well.. ananda Sep 2018 #63
It wasn't the game point that hurt MiniMe Sep 2018 #3
I agree... Osaka was playing better... However? busterbrown Sep 2018 #8
Agree, but i don't think it was there today MiniMe Sep 2018 #11
Osaka was up a break 4-3, was serving great and had a good chance of stopbush Sep 2018 #23
She never had to serve that game MiniMe Sep 2018 #33
Because there's nothing that a sports fan wants to see more..... Colorado Liberal Sep 2018 #7
I love Serena, but the umpire was only enforcing the rules. stopbush Sep 2018 #12
What is sad is that the umpire made a mistake. DURHAM D Sep 2018 #14
I believe that Ramos was retiring after this match. stopbush Sep 2018 #16
The rule is not enforced. DURHAM D Sep 2018 #18
Sure it is. Nadal had the rule enforced on him in 2010. stopbush Sep 2018 #24
Calling the umpire a "thief" was her problem........ USALiberal Sep 2018 #27
I'll agree to a point Colorado Liberal Sep 2018 #15
Except that Serena made the ump the center of attention by stopbush Sep 2018 #17
BS .. his has bigger responsibility towards the game. Le Gaucher Sep 2018 #40
Er, how can an "avid" tennis fan not know about the rules? stopbush Sep 2018 #42
This is a new rule .. I can gaurantee this has never been used. Le Gaucher Sep 2018 #44
No it's not Sugarcoated Sep 2018 #51
Perhaps it's never been used because it's new? stopbush Sep 2018 #61
Only for wta not atp tours. Le Gaucher Sep 2018 #62
Sally Jenkins of WaPo agrees with you. Nt spooky3 Sep 2018 #56
completely agree EleanorR Sep 2018 #57
Serena has form on petulance, remember 2009 and her threatening the line judge, she got dqed then. sunonmars Sep 2018 #60
I was so happy for Osaka to win! MuseRider Sep 2018 #10
Well, she created the situation with the crowd. LisaM Sep 2018 #20
Yeah, me too. MuseRider Sep 2018 #41
I have not cared for Serena since that 2009 match myself Awsi Dooger Sep 2018 #59
Um... her "win" is tainted now. I think we all know that. The out of control, ecstatic Sep 2018 #21
Big plus ONE! oasis Sep 2018 #25
It is not tainted. Serena was going to lose either way. nt USALiberal Sep 2018 #28
I disagree. MuseRider Sep 2018 #37
Not only that Sugarcoated Sep 2018 #45
Williams lost in straight sets. She just lost. Trust Buster Sep 2018 #13
And it had nothing to do with the umpire. nt USALiberal Sep 2018 #29
Exactly. Trust Buster Sep 2018 #31
Sugoi yuiyoshida Sep 2018 #30
First no cat suit, now the umpire's a thief. What's tennis coming to? jalan48 Sep 2018 #32
I'm watching it now, DVR'd it Sugarcoated Sep 2018 #46
She was certainly talking up a storm until she realized it might cost her the match. Then she jalan48 Sep 2018 #49
I want to cry right along with Naomi... Sugarcoated Sep 2018 #50
I don't dislike her. I just thought she acted very entitled about it all. Osaka was clearly the jalan48 Sep 2018 #52
I've seen her poor ungracious behavior for years Sugarcoated Sep 2018 #53
I don't follow tennis a lot but I like other sports. I don't care for players who jalan48 Sep 2018 #54
Sad healthnut7 Sep 2018 #34
Exactly. Well stated. nt Persondem Sep 2018 #36
I agree. n/t MuseRider Sep 2018 #38
Osaka held her head high Sugarcoated Sep 2018 #47
Disagree that Osaka felt she should not have won the match. spooky3 Sep 2018 #55
Serena and the Gators losing on the same night Awsi Dooger Sep 2018 #43
Quite a mess, but Serena and her husband complicated it. Sugarcoated Sep 2018 #48
Thanks healthnut7 Sep 2018 #58
Her husband? Do you mean her coach? Tipperary Sep 2018 #64
Her coach Sugarcoated Sep 2018 #66
No, he is not her husband. They are both white, so maybe that is how you got them mixed up? Tipperary Sep 2018 #67
I know they're both white Sugarcoated Sep 2018 #68
Williams fined $17,000 for her outbursts yesterday. Takket Sep 2018 #65

stopbush

(24,396 posts)
1. Serena's coach admitted he was coaching from the stands.
Sat Sep 8, 2018, 06:18 PM
Sep 2018

That brought the warning. The warning became a code violation when Serena then smashed and broke her racket. That lost her a point. Then on the changeover, she called the umpire a thief for awarding the point to Osaka. That brought the awarded loss of a game for verbal abuse.

The whole time, Serena was yelling at the umpire that he needed to apologize to her.

I think the ump could have maybe given her a verbal warning to calm down, but that would have been showing favoritism to an American superstar player, which in itself would be an abuse of the rules.

Hind sight being 20/20, I believe Serena could have called for the tournament referee after the warning was given. Definitely after the point was awarded, rather than taking it into her own hands.

ecstatic

(32,731 posts)
19. So? Why attempt to make an example out of her for the first time in decades?
Sat Sep 8, 2018, 06:57 PM
Sep 2018

The so called "coaching from the stands" happens all the time, especially in men's tennis.

Second, if her eyes were constantly glued to the stands to track her coach's hand movements, she wouldn't be the greatest player in the world.

Complete BS, IMO.

stopbush

(24,396 posts)
22. Nadal has received code violations for coaching back to at least 2010.
Sat Sep 8, 2018, 07:32 PM
Sep 2018

The violation is rarely called, but it is called. Anyone who follows tennis knows this because it’s always a big deal when it is called.

busterbrown

(8,515 posts)
35. I would agree..
Sat Sep 8, 2018, 08:31 PM
Sep 2018

But Serena is known for her comebacks... after difficult circumstances ..Remember she was Serving for advantage on pt 5 for deuce all of a sudden she's at break point.. She might of come back

Scurrilous

(38,687 posts)
2. 'You stole a point from me, you're a thief too'
Sat Sep 8, 2018, 06:18 PM
Sep 2018
'You stole a point from me, you're a thief too': Serena Williams breaks down as she argues with umpire during the U.S. Open women's final who issued her a game penalty for 'getting coaching from the sidelines'

<snip>

"Serena Williams came to blows with the umpire in the US Open's Women's final as she accused him of 'stealing a point from her'.

Umpire Carlos Ramos issued a game penalty to the US star during her game against Japan's Naomi Osaka because the umpire accused her of getting coaching from the side lines.

The 23-time Grand Slam winner screamed at Ramos: 'Every time I play here, I have problems. I did not have coaching, I don't cheat. You need to make an announcement. I have a daughter and I stand for what's right. You owe me an apology.'

'For you to attack my character is wrong. You owe me an apology. You will never be on a court with me as long as you live. You are the liar. You owe me an apology. Say it. Say you're sorry.

'How dare you insinuate that I was cheating? You stole a point from me. You're a thief too. '

Moments later Williams crashed out of the final with Osaka winning 6-2, 6-4."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/ushome/index.html
 

janterry

(4,429 posts)
6. So, will she now apologize?
Sat Sep 8, 2018, 06:23 PM
Sep 2018

It might be an unusual penalty, but she was wrong. Her coach was coaching
from the side lines.

She owes him an apology.

ananda

(28,876 posts)
63. Well..
Sun Sep 9, 2018, 11:41 AM
Sep 2018

It looks like coaching from the sidelines is done all the time.
Why it's even a rule to ban it is beyond me!

However, Serena was VERY badly behaved.

So it's a wash for me, and I just don't care.

MiniMe

(21,718 posts)
3. It wasn't the game point that hurt
Sat Sep 8, 2018, 06:19 PM
Sep 2018

What hurt was giving her a game that put Osaka up 5-3. Osaka definitely deserved the win.

busterbrown

(8,515 posts)
8. I agree... Osaka was playing better... However?
Sat Sep 8, 2018, 06:24 PM
Sep 2018

Serena made a career on comebacks.. She definitely was not out of the match.

MiniMe

(21,718 posts)
11. Agree, but i don't think it was there today
Sat Sep 8, 2018, 06:29 PM
Sep 2018

even if it had gone to a 3rd set. Love Serena, but Osaka is definitely the future, and Serena needs to get a few more matches under her belt. Be willing to bet that Serena will win the next match between the 2 of them.

stopbush

(24,396 posts)
23. Osaka was up a break 4-3, was serving great and had a good chance of
Sat Sep 8, 2018, 07:34 PM
Sep 2018

getting to 5-3 all on her own. She was serving for 5-3 after all.

MiniMe

(21,718 posts)
33. She never had to serve that game
Sat Sep 8, 2018, 08:24 PM
Sep 2018

I think he would have probably won the game, if it was played. Osaka was playing really well. Osaka deserved the win, it was just a shame with all the confusion and controversy.

Colorado Liberal

(145 posts)
7. Because there's nothing that a sports fan wants to see more.....
Sat Sep 8, 2018, 06:24 PM
Sep 2018

... than the umpire/referee becoming the center of attention. <sarcasm>

Osaka deserved the match and the championship, and she also deserved for the umpire to stay out of the way.

stopbush

(24,396 posts)
12. I love Serena, but the umpire was only enforcing the rules.
Sat Sep 8, 2018, 06:30 PM
Sep 2018

Coaching from the stands? Sure, everyone does it and usually, nothing happens. Just like people running red lights - no big deal until it is.

What’s sad is that it was Serena’s coach who set this off, not the ump. The ump saw a clear violation (watch the video) and called it. Should he have ignored it? That would be favoritism. Serena wasn’t asking for coaching, yet she paid the price for her coach violating the rules. The escalation of the situation was on Serena, though.

DURHAM D

(32,611 posts)
14. What is sad is that the umpire made a mistake.
Sat Sep 8, 2018, 06:44 PM
Sep 2018

You don't make that call in the finals simply because IT IS IGNORED ALL THE OTHER TIMES.

Ramos should never be in the chair again.

I never fault any player for escalating a situation caused by an umpire. It is not a game to the players, it is their life and livelihood.



stopbush

(24,396 posts)
16. I believe that Ramos was retiring after this match.
Sat Sep 8, 2018, 06:50 PM
Sep 2018

The situation was caused by her coach, not the umpire. And I don’t even think the coach was really trying to coach her. He was just engaging in flagrant behavior/gestures that coaches use all the time, almost involuntarily. BUT, the rules are clear, and there are lots of rules that get ignored until they are not ignored.

I would not be surprised if we learn that warnings had been issued to players and coaches over the length of the tournament that the coaching was getting out of hand, and that warnings for coaching would be given. The escalation of the situation was on Serena for losing her cool.

DURHAM D

(32,611 posts)
18. The rule is not enforced.
Sat Sep 8, 2018, 06:54 PM
Sep 2018

jftr - The whole sports world has been talking about Serena's new serve and volley game. Why would she need a coach to remind her to go to the net?

Answer: She doesn't.

stopbush

(24,396 posts)
24. Sure it is. Nadal had the rule enforced on him in 2010.
Sat Sep 8, 2018, 07:35 PM
Sep 2018

There are plenty of examples of the rule being enforced, if infrequently.

USALiberal

(10,877 posts)
27. Calling the umpire a "thief" was her problem........
Sat Sep 8, 2018, 07:51 PM
Sep 2018

Argue balls and strikes, get thrown out. Happens all the time.

Serena was frustrated with her play and lost her cool.

Colorado Liberal

(145 posts)
15. I'll agree to a point
Sat Sep 8, 2018, 06:45 PM
Sep 2018

The first warning for coaching and the point penalty for breaking the racket, okay. The game penalty is the deal-breaker for me - at that point in the match, let her blow off some steam and get the match back in play. Making that call completely changes the competitive situation in the 2nd set, and with that, the match. He made himself the center of attention when he did that. Too many officials with too much ego, in my opinion (see Joe West, baseball umpire).

stopbush

(24,396 posts)
17. Except that Serena made the ump the center of attention by
Sat Sep 8, 2018, 06:54 PM
Sep 2018

continually demanding he apologize to her for the warning on the coaching violation. In fact, Ramos gave her two extended opportunities to blow off steam. He called the code violation on her only after her third go at him, when the demand for an apology escalated into her calling him a thief to his face.

 

Le Gaucher

(1,547 posts)
40. BS .. his has bigger responsibility towards the game.
Sat Sep 8, 2018, 09:06 PM
Sep 2018

He could have handled it better ( as could have Serena)

I am an Avid Tennis fan .. I has no clue about the 3 strikes and game rule... Good chance Serena was caught unawares too

stopbush

(24,396 posts)
61. Perhaps it's never been used because it's new?
Sun Sep 9, 2018, 11:24 AM
Sep 2018

And the rule isn’t new. Nadal was penalized in 2010 for coaching during a match. Coaching isn’t allowed in Grand Slam events. What IS new this year is that coaching is being allowed between sets in non-slam events on an experimental basis. That’s something even casual fans know.

EleanorR

(2,395 posts)
57. completely agree
Sun Sep 9, 2018, 01:07 AM
Sep 2018

The umpire got in the way. My heart broke for Osaka, she played so well and was so composed and strong and focussed, especially for a 20 year old. And Serena deserved to be treated as most players are, ignore the coaching. Give a warning if you're thinking about issuing a third strike in a final.

MuseRider

(34,120 posts)
10. I was so happy for Osaka to win!
Sat Sep 8, 2018, 06:29 PM
Sep 2018

Serena can be her own worst enemy.

The American crowd was largely embarrassing booing and making this less than what it should be for Osaka. Most of her happy, joyous time was spent in sad tears. They are all trying to make up for it now thankfully. She deserved the win, I think she was going to win anyway considering how she was playing and how Serena was playing.

EDIT to add, Serena did a wonderful thing however, she asked the crowd to stop booing and cheer for Naomi who deserved the win. I never thought I would see that from Serena, she usually carrys her mad for a long while.

LisaM

(27,832 posts)
20. Well, she created the situation with the crowd.
Sat Sep 8, 2018, 07:00 PM
Sep 2018

Trying to undo damage you've created yourself doesn't much warrant a pat on the back (though I do think she realized how difficult it was making things for Osaka). I have spent years trying to like Serena better, and I'd actually gotten there, seeing her pal around with other players and with her baby, but she pretty much undid that all today.

MuseRider

(34,120 posts)
41. Yeah, me too.
Sat Sep 8, 2018, 09:14 PM
Sep 2018

I have not cared for her since she threatened that line judge in the US Open all those years ago, I try but it just does not come. I used to like her a lot and was always happy for her to win. I love Venus, always have but her attitude is more inline with my own so that is likely why.

I was trying to give something back to Serena because she did realize what had happened and all of a sudden she changed her attitude and I really appreciated that. I know all of it had to be hard for her.

 

Awsi Dooger

(14,565 posts)
59. I have not cared for Serena since that 2009 match myself
Sun Sep 9, 2018, 02:25 AM
Sep 2018

She was disgusting against Clijsters in 2009, first threatening the female line judge and then blatantly lying about it.

Frankly it is the reason I am always surprised at the pro-Serena threads here. Once she demonstrated those low class bully tendencies in a match against such a classy player as Clijsters I started rooting against Serena all the time. And Serena also was low class in post match interviews after losses to the other prominent Belgian..Justine Henin.

Here is the clip of that 2009 match. I always thought it was great that the tiny Asian lines woman stuck up for herself and told the chair umpire exactly what Serena said. Then when Serena says she didn't threaten to kill the woman, you can hear a female voice from the stands in that area yell out, "Yes you did."



ecstatic

(32,731 posts)
21. Um... her "win" is tainted now. I think we all know that. The out of control,
Sat Sep 8, 2018, 07:00 PM
Sep 2018

power-hungry umpire hurt both players with his antics. How convenient for him.

MuseRider

(34,120 posts)
37. I disagree.
Sat Sep 8, 2018, 09:00 PM
Sep 2018

She was losing and most likely would have lost anyway. Out played and out classed today.

She will be back.

Sugarcoated

(7,728 posts)
45. Not only that
Sat Sep 8, 2018, 11:47 PM
Sep 2018

Her drama and inappropriate behavior takes attention away from the winner, spoiling what should be the wonderful moment, Osaka winning her first slam. I've seen her do it before: She knows she's playing badly and/or the other player is playing better so she takes a big dump on the day.

yuiyoshida

(41,861 posts)
30. Sugoi
Sat Sep 8, 2018, 07:57 PM
Sep 2018

彼らにビデオテープがあることを願っています。 それを見たい。 I would love to have watched it.

jalan48

(13,886 posts)
49. She was certainly talking up a storm until she realized it might cost her the match. Then she
Sun Sep 9, 2018, 12:01 AM
Sep 2018

resorted to that age-old ploy of crying to get her way, which didn't work any better.

jalan48

(13,886 posts)
52. I don't dislike her. I just thought she acted very entitled about it all. Osaka was clearly the
Sun Sep 9, 2018, 12:13 AM
Sep 2018

better player today and it was sad to see her moment of glory stolen by Serena and her boorish supporters.

Sugarcoated

(7,728 posts)
53. I've seen her poor ungracious behavior for years
Sun Sep 9, 2018, 12:18 AM
Sep 2018

I don't like bullies. It's why I'm a Democrat, actually...one of the reasons.

jalan48

(13,886 posts)
54. I don't follow tennis a lot but I like other sports. I don't care for players who
Sun Sep 9, 2018, 12:21 AM
Sep 2018

yell at umpires or referees. It shows a lack of class.

healthnut7

(249 posts)
34. Sad
Sat Sep 8, 2018, 08:30 PM
Sep 2018

For Osaka, she wins the match and the fans are booing. She is 20 years old and was crying. That's when Serena put her arm around her and comforted her and asked the fans to stop booing. It wasn't Osaka's fault that any of this happened. She was crying because she felt she shouldn't have won the match. It was her time to be so happy and I felt so bad for her.

IMO Serena should have accepted the warning about her coach and moved on. She couldn't let it go and then Osaka breaks her and she smashes her racket and from the time he gives her the first warning she was on him every time she sat down. A player in any game has to show respect to the Ref/Ump even though you are totally against his decision. He does not ever owe her an apology. She was yelling at him and then calls him a thief. I guess he had heard enough. She said she has had him as a Ref before and no problem. Chris Evert was one of the commentators and she said Serena's coach was coaching. He was motioning her to come forward and I know Serena said she never saw it but she did come forward a few times after that and did win points and Chris did comment on that as well.

spooky3

(34,481 posts)
55. Disagree that Osaka felt she should not have won the match.
Sun Sep 9, 2018, 12:57 AM
Sep 2018

The statistics showed she outplayed Williams.

We don’t know all the emotions and thoughts she was feeling, but she said she felt bad because she knew the fans wanted Serena to win, that she had idolized Serena, etc.

 

Awsi Dooger

(14,565 posts)
43. Serena and the Gators losing on the same night
Sat Sep 8, 2018, 11:41 PM
Sep 2018

It doesn't get any better than that, except when Serena also makes a fool of herself in the process

Sugarcoated

(7,728 posts)
48. Quite a mess, but Serena and her husband complicated it.
Sat Sep 8, 2018, 11:55 PM
Sep 2018

I don't mean to be a spelling nazi but it's spelled Evert.

 

Tipperary

(6,930 posts)
67. No, he is not her husband. They are both white, so maybe that is how you got them mixed up?
Sun Sep 9, 2018, 02:32 PM
Sep 2018

I will refrain from the comment I would like to make lol.

Her husband is an American named Alexis Ohanian. Her coach is French, named Patrick Mototoglou. ( Imay have spelled that wrong.) They are both white, but look nothing alike.

Sugarcoated

(7,728 posts)
68. I know they're both white
Sun Sep 9, 2018, 02:42 PM
Sep 2018

I don't care enough about her personal life to know what her husband even looks like.

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