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struggle4progress

(118,290 posts)
Mon Sep 10, 2018, 09:06 PM Sep 2018

Officer could face stiffer charge for killing unarmed neighbor

By AnneClaire Stapleton, Darran Simon and Eliott C. McLaughlin, CNN
Updated 3:28 PM ET, Mon September 10, 2018

... "The grand jury will be that entity that will make the final decision in terms of the charge or charges that will come out of this case," Dallas County District Attorney Faith Johnson told reporters. "We prepare to present a thorough case to the grand jury of Dallas County, so that the right decision can be made in this case."

Amber Guyger, who is white, was off-duty when she shot Botham Shem Jean, a black man, in his apartment, police said Thursday. Guyger told police she thought she was entering her own apartment not realizing she was on the wrong floor. Upon encountering Jean, she thought her home was being burglarized and opened fire, according to police.

Botham, a 26-year-old native of St. Lucia, was unarmed. He died at a hospital ...

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/10/us/dallas-police-officer-amber-guyger-arrest/index.html

73 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Officer could face stiffer charge for killing unarmed neighbor (Original Post) struggle4progress Sep 2018 OP
Officer who killed neighbor in wrong apartment said he ignored her commands struggle4progress Sep 2018 #1
She probably did not identify herself as a police officer (uniform does not count in the dark). Plus Bernardo de La Paz Sep 2018 #11
The 2nd tweet here has that report.. Cha Sep 2018 #19
I know! Who would do that???? pnwmom Sep 2018 #22
This and every other clue keeps me thinking Cha Sep 2018 #26
That's what I think too. Some kind of substance was involved. n/t pnwmom Sep 2018 #35
they said they ran "tests" for substances. dixiegrrrrl Sep 2018 #73
+1, " "yelling to "open door!" when you think it's your apt? " The witness's are going to sink her uponit7771 Sep 2018 #59
If she couldn't see him how could she know he was ignoring her commands? pnwmom Sep 2018 #21
Good question. joshcryer Sep 2018 #50
Prob dark but light enough to see another person moving. Bernardo de La Paz Sep 2018 #60
In other words, she's lying. In a whole bunch of different ways. pnwmom Sep 2018 #69
Seems that way. Hard to square it any other way. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Sep 2018 #72
My thought as well. She wants it both ways. yardwork Sep 2018 #68
Prosecutor says murder charge possible struggle4progress Sep 2018 #2
Should have already been charged with Murder Thrill Sep 2018 #17
At this point there isn't evidence that this was premeditated mythology Sep 2018 #61
Thank you for this update, struggle. It's Cha Sep 2018 #20
So how come her key worked in the guy's front door? FakeNoose Sep 2018 #3
He may have left it unlocked. PSPS Sep 2018 #4
Why did she yell at him to open the door if it was open? pnwmom Sep 2018 #23
Because she didn't know yet that she was later going to tell police the door was open struggle4progress Sep 2018 #66
This message was self-deleted by its author madaboutharry Sep 2018 #5
Yes and I bet they will go exboyfil Sep 2018 #40
According to the article brer cat Sep 2018 #6
She said it was exboyfil Sep 2018 #41
Well, we know who is NOT lying cyndensco Sep 2018 #7
The arrest affidavit states that the door was unlocked and slightly open. yardwork Sep 2018 #9
Then why would she order him to open the door? pnwmom Sep 2018 #24
Good question. Her story raises other questions as well. yardwork Sep 2018 #45
The door was "open" is a damned lie. joshcryer Sep 2018 #39
Let me tell you how I was in the wrong resort room riverbendviewgal Sep 2018 #8
It does seem like your hotel key shouldn't Cha Sep 2018 #28
Happened to me once. My husband checked in before I arrived. Luz Sep 2018 #71
Somewhere I heard ... left-of-center2012 Sep 2018 #10
According to CNN, Botham Jean lived on the fourth floor, and Amber Guyger lived directly beneath him John1956PA Sep 2018 #13
So she wasn't even on the right floor? Unreal Thrill Sep 2018 #16
If they do not punish her to the max they are guilty Old Terp Sep 2018 #12
Sadly, I bet she walks... regnaD kciN Sep 2018 #14
Intent may be an issue for a murder charge. But manslaughter seems obvious unblock Sep 2018 #29
The thing that stands out to me Horse with no Name Sep 2018 #15
Another thing I noticed kcr Sep 2018 #18
I am very interested to hear the results of her alcohol and drug test. yardwork Sep 2018 #46
If she thought the door to her own apartment was ajar, and someone was in there, pnwmom Sep 2018 #25
Yeah, she's 100% lying about how it went down, too. joshcryer Sep 2018 #33
And, then there's the reports from witnesses that Cha Sep 2018 #34
Her stories make no sense. None of them. nt pnwmom Sep 2018 #36
murder, pure and simple heaven05 Sep 2018 #27
I thought manslaughter exboyfil Sep 2018 #42
still researching TR's heaven05 Sep 2018 #58
Just doesn't make sense thbobby Sep 2018 #30
Very possible onlyadream Sep 2018 #65
it will come down to whether they can get a Racist Jury JI7 Sep 2018 #31
If this was in Dallas city proper they're most likely NOT going to get a racist jury. They would uponit7771 Sep 2018 #63
This story enrages me True Dough Sep 2018 #32
I have never seen an afidavit that used the criminals side of the story... joshcryer Sep 2018 #37
Reads like a defense brief exboyfil Sep 2018 #43
She will almost certainly get off. joshcryer Sep 2018 #44
The prosecutor(DA Faith Johnson) is standing up for Bo Jean and his Cha Sep 2018 #48
Not so fast, a stronger charge could wind up with her walking. joshcryer Sep 2018 #51
That's right! omg. I just found these articles.. Cha Sep 2018 #52
Yep, the affidavit is *very* self-serving. joshcryer Sep 2018 #55
Maybe as a negotiating tool to use exboyfil Sep 2018 #53
Right.. Josh Cryer just Cha Sep 2018 #54
My money is still her being high as hell on something. phleshdef Sep 2018 #38
This is an upscale apt complex DeminPennswoods Sep 2018 #47
Right.. there should most definitely be. Cha Sep 2018 #49
If the door was locked and she pounded on it and demanded to be let in, betsuni Sep 2018 #56
I've heard about the banging on door witness's also. uponit7771 Sep 2018 #62
From the earlist stories witnesses heard "police talk" csziggy Sep 2018 #67
Manslaughter is where it will stay, Murder under Texas law would be a stretch Lee-Lee Sep 2018 #57
+1, would she get a lighter sentence if she plead out for reckless manslaughter and just admitted uponit7771 Sep 2018 #64
That's all on what the DA decides Lee-Lee Sep 2018 #70

struggle4progress

(118,290 posts)
1. Officer who killed neighbor in wrong apartment said he ignored her commands
Mon Sep 10, 2018, 09:08 PM
Sep 2018

... Jean family attorneys, including Benjamin Crump, and local politicians rallied against the Dallas Police Department for failing to make a timely arrest in the case. "You or I would be arrested if we went to the wrong apartment and blow a hole in a person's chest, killing them," said Crump ...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/botham-jean-shooting-dallas-police-officer-amber-guyger-says-victim-ignored-commands-2018-09-10/

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,002 posts)
11. She probably did not identify herself as a police officer (uniform does not count in the dark). Plus
Mon Sep 10, 2018, 10:11 PM
Sep 2018

Plus (I read) two witnesses heard her knocking and shouting to open the door, indicating she knew someone was inside and knew her key didn't work and that she lied when she said the door was "open".

Plus she did not notice or ignored the bright red smack-your-eye mat at his door.

Cha

(297,280 posts)
26. This and every other clue keeps me thinking
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:38 AM
Sep 2018

she'd been drinking.

Of course I could be wrong.. and she's like that stone cold sober.

uponit7771

(90,347 posts)
59. +1, " "yelling to "open door!" when you think it's your apt? " The witness's are going to sink her
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 09:42 AM
Sep 2018

... defense.

If she thought it was her place why ask the door to be opened ?!

Anything following that is going to be 100% stupid

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,002 posts)
60. Prob dark but light enough to see another person moving.
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 09:43 AM
Sep 2018

She obviously saw him enough to kill him.

She may have said "Stop right there", believing her uniform was enough to command respect, especially from dark skin people. The guy might have moved forward or sideways or even backwards, since it was his apartment and she had probably not identified herself.

Probably trained to not say "Stop or I'll shoot" on the training theory that give time for another person to shoot, but I'm just speculating on that bit.

struggle4progress

(118,290 posts)
2. Prosecutor says murder charge possible
Mon Sep 10, 2018, 09:10 PM
Sep 2018

By DAVID BOROFF and KATE FELDMAN
| NEW YORK DAILY NEWS |
SEP 10, 2018 | 4:25 PM

The Dallas County district attorney said Monday that her office will consider stronger charges — including murder — against a police officer who shot and killed her neighbor after entering his apartment.

Faith Johnson said she will present a “full case” to the grand jury against Amber Guyger, the Dallas cop who killed 26-year-old Botham Jean Thursday night, so the panel can weigh “all aspects” of the case ...

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ny-news-amber-guyger-wrong-level-garage-20180910-story.html
 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
61. At this point there isn't evidence that this was premeditated
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 09:51 AM
Sep 2018

Manslaughter is the right charge with the information known.

Cha

(297,280 posts)
20. Thank you for this update, struggle. It's
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:24 AM
Sep 2018

so fishy.. especially now that she's trying to wiggle out of it with seemingly lies.

FakeNoose

(32,641 posts)
3. So how come her key worked in the guy's front door?
Mon Sep 10, 2018, 09:19 PM
Sep 2018

This is very puzzling and it sounds like someone is lying.

Just sayin'



PSPS

(13,600 posts)
4. He may have left it unlocked.
Mon Sep 10, 2018, 09:31 PM
Sep 2018

I wonder if Dallas keeps an audit trail of when anyone looks up a citizen in their databases.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
23. Why did she yell at him to open the door if it was open?
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:31 AM
Sep 2018

Why did she yell at anyone to open the door if she thought she was standing outside her own apartment?

If she used her key to get in, as she said, why did she yell anyone inside to open the door?

Nothing she said makes sense.

Response to FakeNoose (Reply #3)

exboyfil

(17,863 posts)
40. Yes and I bet they will go
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 02:47 AM
Sep 2018

Into overdrive to impeach the ear witnesses who heard her call to open door.

joshcryer

(62,276 posts)
39. The door was "open" is a damned lie.
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 02:36 AM
Sep 2018

I hope the door lock has a 'memory' and can tell when the door was locked at what times.

riverbendviewgal

(4,253 posts)
8. Let me tell you how I was in the wrong resort room
Mon Sep 10, 2018, 09:52 PM
Sep 2018

My husband and I were on vacation. After a night of dining and drinking we went to our room. We used the room key to unlock the door and walked in. Instantly we realized it was not our room. None of our stuff was in it. We got out and realized our room was one floor up. Luckily the room true occupiers were not in the ròom. Now it occurs to me that there could have been a different ending.

I cannot sympathize with the police officer firing her gun. I hope she gets true justice.

Cha

(297,280 posts)
28. It does seem like your hotel key shouldn't
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:44 AM
Sep 2018

have been able to open someone else's room in the hotel!

I've been drunk back in the day and it feels like something I would have done with the wrong apt. But, I would have ended up embarrassed. Which is what should have happened instead of the tragic murder of Bo Jean

Luz

(772 posts)
71. Happened to me once. My husband checked in before I arrived.
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 11:56 AM
Sep 2018

He gave me the key, but I went to the wrong door, and got inside. I was using the toilet when I saw shoes and suitcases that were not ours. Lucky for everyone that the room was empty. Never trust hotel room keys.

John1956PA

(2,654 posts)
13. According to CNN, Botham Jean lived on the fourth floor, and Amber Guyger lived directly beneath him
Mon Sep 10, 2018, 10:16 PM
Sep 2018

From https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/10/us/dallas-police-officer-amber-guyger-arrest/index.html :

The fatal shooting happened Thursday night at the South Side Flats in Dallas, where both Jean and Guyger lived. Guyger's apartment is directly beneath Jean's.



Old Terp

(464 posts)
12. If they do not punish her to the max they are guilty
Mon Sep 10, 2018, 10:13 PM
Sep 2018

As a seventy one year old white woman, I'm sick of this. This is so out of bounds.

regnaD kciN

(26,044 posts)
14. Sadly, I bet she walks...
Mon Sep 10, 2018, 11:25 PM
Sep 2018

All she needs to do is come up with an account (as she has) that doesn’t have her knowingly killing an unarmed man, and she’ll get the benefit of the doubt: “if I came home — even if it turned out to be the wrong place — and found a guy inside in the dark, I sure as hell would shoot first and ask questions later!” will be the mantra of every single white juror, diplomatically not mentioning that that would be especially true for a white woman facing a black man.

unblock

(52,245 posts)
29. Intent may be an issue for a murder charge. But manslaughter seems obvious
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:45 AM
Sep 2018

Jurors give the police a free pass in nearly any on-duty situation, especially arrest situations.

But an off-duty cop killing someone in a situation that was undeniably 100% a mistaken creation of the cop?

I think this is one of the few cases in which the cop actually goes to prison, albeit for a crime less than murder....

Horse with no Name

(33,956 posts)
15. The thing that stands out to me
Mon Sep 10, 2018, 11:41 PM
Sep 2018

He had a distinctive red porch mat.
Unless she has that exact same mat, her story doesn’t hold water.

kcr

(15,317 posts)
18. Another thing I noticed
Mon Sep 10, 2018, 11:58 PM
Sep 2018

Was she claimed she had to go out and look at the room number on the outside to check to see if she was in her own apartment when she was calling the incident in. Seriously? Now, at first I was thinking the story was plausible, though I still supported a manslaughter charge. But now? I don't know what the hell was going on there, but her story is fishy as hell.

yardwork

(61,634 posts)
46. I am very interested to hear the results of her alcohol and drug test.
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 03:51 AM
Sep 2018

If she was drunk while in uniform when she shot a man in his own apartment...

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
25. If she thought the door to her own apartment was ajar, and someone was in there,
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:34 AM
Sep 2018

then she should have gotten away and immediately called for back-up.

Not gone inside and killed the intruder.

Open and shut case. I've decided. They couldn't put me on that jury!

joshcryer

(62,276 posts)
33. Yeah, she's 100% lying about how it went down, too.
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 01:05 AM
Sep 2018

People heard her loudly yell "open the door!" so there is a major discrepancy there. She obviously chose the order of events which would give her the best case, and it's because she was allowed to be free for days to get her story together.

The way they're saying she parked on a different floor of the parking garage makes it sound like she got more reasonably confused about which floor she was on, and the fact that she claims the door was ajar (which I doubt it was) makes it even more suspicious.

Cha

(297,280 posts)
34. And, then there's the reports from witnesses that
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 01:12 AM
Sep 2018

Amber was knocking on the door and yelling "open the door!".. so.. conflicting reports abound.





Bo Jean
 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
27. murder, pure and simple
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:41 AM
Sep 2018

and on and on the genocidal rampage continues. 350 years and it goes on and on. I hope she ends up in prison for life.

exboyfil

(17,863 posts)
42. I thought manslaughter
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 02:51 AM
Sep 2018

Until she came up with this BS story. Now I don't know. It is obvious the Rangers are serving as defense investigators.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
58. still researching TR's
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 09:06 AM
Sep 2018

but given it's the Texas Rangers, well I would expect nothing less than obfuscation and out and out lies. They do watch each other's back in cases such as this with the victim being unarmed innocent and AA. 99.9% of the time.

thbobby

(1,474 posts)
30. Just doesn't make sense
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:48 AM
Sep 2018

there is more to this story. A personal vendetta? I am not sure what is missing, but there is an unknown angle to this.

onlyadream

(2,166 posts)
65. Very possible
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 10:50 AM
Sep 2018

I read that she was one floor below him. So maybe he was noisy walking around at night, or something. Not that that is any excuse to ever kill anyone! I had a guy live below me who went into a fit because I used a treadmill during the day while he was home.

JI7

(89,251 posts)
31. it will come down to whether they can get a Racist Jury
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:49 AM
Sep 2018

if they can get a racist jury like with george zimmerman they will refuse to convict someone for killing a black person.

uponit7771

(90,347 posts)
63. If this was in Dallas city proper they're most likely NOT going to get a racist jury. They would
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 09:55 AM
Sep 2018

... probably request the case be moved to another court.

True Dough

(17,305 posts)
32. This story enrages me
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:54 AM
Sep 2018

A life is needlessly lost due to reckless use of a firearm by a police officer. The days of letting the cop walk away have to be behind us.

joshcryer

(62,276 posts)
37. I have never seen an afidavit that used the criminals side of the story...
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 01:15 AM
Sep 2018

...for its alleged facts. What the fuck.

joshcryer

(62,276 posts)
44. She will almost certainly get off.
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 03:07 AM
Sep 2018

The way they're handling this it's like she's the poor overworked victim of her circumstances.

Wouldn't be shocked if she gets reinstated and is back on the street in a year.

Cha

(297,280 posts)
48. The prosecutor(DA Faith Johnson) is standing up for Bo Jean and his
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 04:26 AM
Sep 2018

wonderful family from the Caribbean Island of St Lucia.

Prosecutor suggests stronger charge against Dallas officer who killed neighbor

Dallas County District Attorney Faith Johnson also said any notion of preferential treatment for officer Amber Guyger was separate from her office.

snip//

That was totally their call, that was totally their responsibility, that was totally their lead," Johnson said at a news conference about how investigators first handled the case. "I cannot dictate to the Texas Rangers the process, the investigation, what they do and what they don't do."

She added that she had a "spirited conversation" with the Texas Rangers for two hours on Sunday about the manslaughter charge.

More..
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/prosecutor-suggests-stronger-charge-against-dallas-officer-who-killed-neighbor-n908156

joshcryer

(62,276 posts)
51. Not so fast, a stronger charge could wind up with her walking.
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 04:30 AM
Sep 2018

You can't be charged twice for the same crime.

Cha

(297,280 posts)
52. That's right! omg. I just found these articles..
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 05:12 AM
Sep 2018

It does look like a cover up between Guyger and the Officials..

Botham Jean's door was unlocked, lights were off when Officer Amber Guyger mistook his apartment for hers, official says

snip//

The Dallas police officer who killed 26-year-old Botham Jean in his own apartment got inside because the door wasn’t locked, a law enforcement official said Sunday.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/dallas-police/2018/09/09/botham-jeans-door-unlocked-amber-guyger-mistook-apartment-official-says

So.. the police are going with a different story than the witnesses. Killed because she "came off a 15 hour shift" and "he left his door unlocked and she didn't notice the RED DOORMAT."

Family disputes official account of the moments before Amber Guyger shot Botham Jean

snip//

One attorney, Lee Merritt, said two independent witnesses had come forward to say they heard knocking on the door in the hallway before the shooting. Merritt said one witness reported hearing a woman's voice saying, "Let me in, let me in." Then they heard gunshots, he said.

Lawyers for Jean's family disputed the narrative in the arrest warrant affidavit at a news conference streamed live by WFAA-TV (Channel 8) Monday evening, saying Jean was a meticulous man who wouldn't have neglected to close and lock his door.

After the gunshots, one of the witnesses reported hearing what she thought was a man's voice saying, "Oh my God, why did you do that," Merritt said.

This affidavit is very self-serving," said lawyer Benjamin Crump, who is also representing the family. "Botham Jean is not here to give his version of what happened because he's dead."


More..
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/dallas-police/2018/09/10/affidavit-amber-guyger-says-saw-silhouette-heading-dark-apartment-shot-silhouette-after-commands-ignored

exboyfil

(17,863 posts)
53. Maybe as a negotiating tool to use
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 05:33 AM
Sep 2018

The murder charge, but unless some other information comes out, the manslaughter charge seems the most appropriate. Overcharging will lead to aquital.

Cha

(297,280 posts)
54. Right.. Josh Cryer just
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 05:43 AM
Sep 2018

informed me of that.

It's such a heartbreaking random act of gun violence by cop.. they all are, of course.


betsuni

(25,537 posts)
56. If the door was locked and she pounded on it and demanded to be let in,
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 06:05 AM
Sep 2018

either someone was staying in her apartment and she expected them to open the door or she wanted the burglar she thought was inside who had changed the locks to open the door. Jean opens the door. If it was unlocked and she looked inside and saw a silhouette (to see a silhouette there must be some light, either a window or a light on in a bedroom), the reaction was the same and that's why she shot him. SURPRISE BIG DARK MAN DANGER DANGER DANGER GUN DRUGS WEAPONS BIG DARK MAN BANG BANG.

This is my theory.

Apparently he was in his underwear, which I had assumed. Like that famous guy whose neighbor called the cops on him thinking he broke into his own house and he opened the door in his underwear to cops with guns drawn and they didn't put the guns down until one of the cops recognized him. What do I know, maybe most burglars strip down to their underwear when they are robbing. Don't want to get their clothes sweaty.

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
67. From the earlist stories witnesses heard "police talk"
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 11:24 AM
Sep 2018
Two women who live on the second floor near where the shooting happened said they heard a lot of noise late Thursday.

"It was, like, police talk: 'Open up! Open up!'" Caitlin Simpson, 20, told The Dallas Morning News.

Yazmine Hernandez, 20, was studying with Simpson when they heard the commotion.

"We heard cops yelling, but otherwise had no idea what was going on," Hernandez said.

More: https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/business/article217980900.html


If she thought it was her apartment and the door was ajar - as she now claims - why did she yell "Open up! Open up!"?
 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
57. Manslaughter is where it will stay, Murder under Texas law would be a stretch
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 06:45 AM
Sep 2018

Unless there are things we don’t know.

Looking at the Texas law it appears that a conviction of murder requires prior intent, that she went there with intent to harm someone.

Manslaughter is the appropriate charge under Texas law. She was reckless in her conduct and as a result caused the death of another, but did not go there to intentionally cause harm.

If they try for murder there is a strong chance it will be too much and they won’t get a jury to convict, as it will require convincing them that her intent was to harm another. If they try for manslaughter than they have a near certain conviction.

uponit7771

(90,347 posts)
64. +1, would she get a lighter sentence if she plead out for reckless manslaughter and just admitted
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 09:57 AM
Sep 2018

... she got the whole night wrong?

thx in advance

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
70. That's all on what the DA decides
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 11:41 AM
Sep 2018

It’s possible. But it’s also possible the DA will not want to take any deal because of how high profile this is.

I will say due to public pressure and how high profile it is she would not get as good a deal as if it were Joe Public who had the same thing happen. In that case a DA would take a plea as a win and move on. More eyes on what is done here.

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