General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBTRTN: The Op-Ed Goal? Revealing the Flaw in the 25th Amendment
Born To Run The Numbers, with its contrarian view, sees a different reason behind the Op-Ed in The New York Times
http://www.borntorunthenumbers.com/2018/09/the-op-ed-goal-revealing-flaw-in-25th.html
Excerpts: No one wanted to precipitate a constitutional crisis? Huh? I dont buy this for one second. Cheap Throat uses this justification to rationalize the insurgents decision to not invoke the 25th Amendment, but their solution is to slow-jam a coup...
"Heres a different theory altogether. Perhaps Cheap Throat undertook this entire exercise to educate the population of the United States of America on the profound flaw in the Twenty-Fifth Amendment...
"And this is where the essential flaw in the 25th Amendment becomes apparent. The entire functionality of the amendment rests on the agreement of one person
a person who is inevitably intensely biased by virtue of his or her proximity to the human being who is president and to the presidency itself...
"It is an interesting thesis: that the entire purpose of the Op-ed was to point out the flaw in the 25th Amendment, and then create a situation in which Pence would have the perfect motivation to employ it."
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)unblock
(52,233 posts)removal by the 25th amendment was designed primarily for someone who was in a coma or massively debilitated by a stroke, or something like it (it was prompted by president wilson's stroke, after which mrs. wilson became either the voice of the president, or the de facto president, depending on your interpretation of the events.
it was deliberately designed to be very difficult to overturn the results of an election. it was meant for a situation in which virtually everyone agreed the president couldn't carry out the duties of the job.
hence, it needs the following people to sign on:
- vice-president
- majority of the cabinet
- 2/3rds of the house and
- 2/3rds of the senate
that's a tall order, and meant to be.
note, in particular, that removal by impeachment is by far easier, requiring only:
- majority of the house and
- 2/3rds of the senate
the real flaw here is that congress has rendered itself incapable of removing the president by impeachment, which is the obvious method, and would have worked a long time ago had any democrat done a fraction of what donnie has done.
reggieandlee
(778 posts)You note, correctly, that implementation of the 25th amendment requires:
"hence, it needs the following people to sign on:
- vice-president
- majority of the cabinet
- 2/3rds of the house and
- 2/3rds of the senate"
The point is simple: three of those require a majority or super-majority of a large, informed, deliberate body.
The fourth is one person, who can prevent the amendment from being implemented even if an overwhelming majority of the other three bodies disagree.
Giving one person that much power is dangerous.
Particularly if that person -- by definition -- is likely to be very close to the President, very close to the Presidency, and quite possibly both.
This is a flaw, and the existence of an ambitious, Machiavellian sycophant like Mike Pence illustrates why.
unblock
(52,233 posts)if he's "machiavellian", why wouldn't he try to become president?
perhaps more important, if the guy who would then become president *doesn't* want to do it, how is it a "flaw" that he needs to sign on to becoming president?
again, the point is, impeachment is the correct route in nearly all cases where the president is conscious and lucid but unfit for office, and that's nominally far easier anyway.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)at least in part intended to specifically spark consideration of the 25th.
From what I've read, while the VP's role could definitely be a point of contention between factions, there are more immediate and inevitable issues, such as procedures that are not spelled out in the law and would have to be -- by congress. Additionally, back in the beginning a 2/3 vote of both houses was simply not possible, and it probably still is not.
Not yet. But this is stimulating attention of the electorate, and almost certainly congress, to this issue. So probably not unintentional.