General Discussion
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(3,505 posts)Pence is the tiebreaker.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)madaboutharry
(40,234 posts)The Vice President cast the tie breaker.
YessirAtsaFact
(2,064 posts)Hekate
(90,865 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Wounded Bear
(58,737 posts)actually, the VP can NOT vote on day to day issues. He can only break ties.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)But if it's a 49-49 tie (for whatever reason... maybe someone is sick) can Pence step in and break that tie too?
Wounded Bear
(58,737 posts)The Constitution only says "ties." It does not specify numbers.
I think there is a clause on what constitutes a quorum, but I don't know that off the top of my head.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Wounded Bear
(58,737 posts)I learn a lot around here.
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... any suggestions?
Eliot Rosewater
(31,130 posts)LandOfHopeAndDreams
(872 posts)Hypothetically, although I know it's unlikely to happen, what with the criminal repubs standing by their Cult leader. If Drumpf were to leave office, and Pence became President, does the Speaker Of The House become Vice-President? Doesn't the House have to confirm whoever is going into that office under these circumstances?
If say Nancy Pelosi were to become VP, does she then cast the deciding vote in a 50-50 tie?
hlthe2b
(102,419 posts)must be confirmed by both the House AND the Senate (since he/she was not elected)
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/vice-president-agnew-resigns
LandOfHopeAndDreams
(872 posts)What if Pence nominates someone, and the Democratic Controlled House refuses to confirm? Is the office left vacant? And 50-50 ties result in nothing passing on either side?
hlthe2b
(102,419 posts)LandOfHopeAndDreams
(872 posts)If the House Democrats were to take the "Garland" approach, and refuse to vote on Anyone Pence nominated, could they?
I imagine the outcry among repubs would be non-stop, but if the Democrats held strong, could they in effect leave the VP office vacant until 2020, thereby taking away any repub advantage in case of 50-50 Senate ties?
hlthe2b
(102,419 posts)Same thing that happens if by some prayer, Kavanaugh is not confirmed. Trump will nominate someone else.
Were there a VP vacancy with a nominee not yet confirmed by House/Senate and an important 50-50 vote pending (which would be unlikely to ever happen since the Senate would not let such a consequential vote if there were no way to break a tie), the Constitution doesn't address who would be eligible to replace the VP in a tie breaking vote. My guess, is they'd have to bring the vote up again after a VP is confirmed by House and Senate.
LandOfHopeAndDreams
(872 posts)You don't think the repubs would do this? They left a Supreme Court seat vacant for a year, just to get their way.
How can you say the Democrats would not want to refuse confirmation of a Pence nominee, knowing that by doing so, they would be an automatic repub Senate vote in case of a tie?
And why would the Senate stop taking votes, just because they expected them to end in an unbreakable tie?
There have been a myriad of theories about the various impact of a Constitutional crisis, and a President leaving office is something that has not happened in 45 years. The whole thing stinks, and it's uncharted territory, so I don't understand why you think it's a bad thing.
And if you think the repubs are above doing this, even if it were to damage the country, you haven't been paying attention.
hlthe2b
(102,419 posts)Neither party (not in power) gains anything unless nearly the entire line of succession is wiped out and in terms of party change over in the office, not even then.
Cerulean Southpaw
(32 posts)House Democrats could do that, but it wouldn't matter.
If the VP isn't available, the tiebreaking vote and other functions of VP would be fulfilled by the president pro tem. Right now that's Orrin Hatch.
LandOfHopeAndDreams
(872 posts)If the Democrats take control of the House, it would be a Democrat.
So if the Senate is 50-50, who is the President pro-tem?
Cerulean Southpaw
(32 posts)President pro tem is always a member of the Senate, chosen by the Senate
LandOfHopeAndDreams
(872 posts)I asked if the Senate is 50-50. How is the Pro-Tem decided then?
Cerulean Southpaw
(32 posts)I don't see how it would be possible to not already have a President pro tem in place at the exact time that the VP office becomes empty, but the "acting pro tem" carries out most of the pro tem duties anyway.
The "acting pro tem" is usually a junior senator and can be selected by the president as often as the president wants with no confirmation needed.
Sorry, but I don't see any realistic way that this would work.
hlthe2b
(102,419 posts)so nothing is gained by their casting the tie breaking vote (for the minority party).
LandOfHopeAndDreams
(872 posts)If it's 50-50? Do Independents factor in then?
hlthe2b
(102,419 posts)No, then the VP comes into play. If vacant, the vote is scheduled for after a new VP is confirmed. President Pro Tempore only really comes into play in the line of succession.
LandOfHopeAndDreams
(872 posts)So if there is No VP, the President nominates one, and House & Senate have to approve.
If it's a 50-50 split, then there is No Pro-Tem, and therefore nobody to vote to break a 50-50 tie.
Why is this not beneficial to the Democrats? By confirming a repub VP, they effectively would go back to losing every 50-50 vote. Given that repubs seldom vote against their own party, the Democrats would not have any other way to block the repub agenda in the Senate.
Worst case scenario, Pence gets a Supreme nomination, goes to Senate and is 50-50, with a Pence appointed repub breaking it.
Again I mention, the repubs left a SC seat open for a year, just to get their way. Why is it wrong for us to do likewise with the VP if Drumpf were to leave in disgrace?
hlthe2b
(102,419 posts)as a member of the Senate, they would either already have voted. As I said, their real constitutional function is in the line of successor. This supposition that they would act in lieu of the missing VP to break a tie is, I think, total conjecture.
hlthe2b
(102,419 posts)Leaving the VP office open in the way you describe, if it ever occurred, does not benefit us. The Senate would either hold over the vote, pressure the President to pull the nomination in lieu of another, or go to court to request clarification on whether line of succession can be used to replace VP even temporarily. Either would be slow going so, they'd likely just keep the vote open.
LandOfHopeAndDreams
(872 posts)I still think it benefits us by giving us the chance for a 50-50 tie, rather than a certain 51-50 loss with a Pence installed repub.
The Senate holding over a vote the Democrats would lose, is of benefit to us IMO.
Telling the President that we will not confirm his nominee is Exactly what the repubs did to Garland. Is it not?
The repubs would be the ones wanting to go to court, so they could get their guy in and break 50-50 ties in their favor.
And if it took time to decide, it gets us closer to 2020, when we would hopefully take back the White House altogether.
The repubs would never want to go the line of succession route, because wouldn't that favor the Speaker of Democratic controlled House?
hlthe2b
(102,419 posts)Cerulean Southpaw
(32 posts)If the VP becomes POTUS for any reason, he can nominate whoever he wants as his new VP as long as they meet the same requirements of being a natural born citizen, age 35 or older, and residing in the US for at least 14 years.
Then the nominee has to be confirmed by majority vote in both houses of congress.
hlthe2b
(102,419 posts)dlk
(11,580 posts)Tiggeroshii
(11,088 posts)genxlib
(5,544 posts)However, it makes for an intriguing proposition.
We would only need one Republican to switch. It seems unlikely but that is an enormous amount of power.
If I was Trump, would I be so sure that one of those marginal Senators wouldn't chuck it all. They would instantly be the most powerful person in the Democratic caucus
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,374 posts)... they would only need one Democrat to switch.
Generally, the Repugs are more controlled, more conforming, more loyal to the party line. Will every sintle Dem vote against the Kavanaugh appointment?
genxlib
(5,544 posts)But switching of the Republican could turn the whole Senate. Switching of a Dem would just change the score of how much they win by. Since they vote in lock step, the difference between 51 versus 50 plus Pence is almost immaterial.
What you are saying about staying in line is true. But at some point, the Trump disaster is going to feel like a sinking ship. I would not put it past a purple state Republican from bailing and acting like he was just a misunderstood good guy who was willing to risk everything for the republic yada yada.
Just imagine how much leverage that person would have. I remember during the ACA how much leverage they gave guys like Leiberman to get a crucial swing vote on one bill. Imagine how much juice they would have to overturn the Senate as a whole.
onenote
(42,782 posts)It would be interesting to see how things sort themselves out if the Senate ends up 50-50. That happened after the 2000 elections and even though the Republicans technically had the tie-breaker in VP Cheney, the Senate leadership agreed to a power sharing arrangement with respect to committees and resources. Specifically, Senate committees were equally divided between each partys members and each party received equal numbers of staff and allotted funding.
To be clear, an even division on a committee vote wouldn't kill a nomination. The matter could still proceed to the floor without a favorable or unfavorable recommendation and since there is no filibuster for nominations, the matter could be voted upon and if the full senate split 50-50, Pence could cast the deciding vote.
David__77
(23,553 posts)That is, all Democrats could support a collaborative Republican for majority leader, with the understanding that committees would be split. Even if the Republicans were given a majority on committees it could work out better.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)shanny
(6,709 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)ellie
(6,929 posts)breaks the tie.