Mr. Mueller knows what he is doing and doesn't need our input?

The guy knows what he is doing and even if it is a huge error it is really beyond anything that we have a say in. It will be interesting to see the path forward, but not mine to worry about one way or the other.

Never mind.

I have the same question

It allows intelligent analytical educated opinions of which we have plenty in DU.

My thinking is that Mueller is getting what he wants out of it. Why would he bother since it’s Manafort who has something to gain personally, like less prison time. Manafort is already a convicted felon. Why is he giving up so much in wealth and assets, which he has dedicated his life in international criminal activities to get?

Mueller probably just guaranteed himself and Justice a catch of who’s who in international crimes. It’s Mueller who is calling the shots, not Manafort.

We can only hope Trump is among the other criminals Mueller is netting.

just would like to know anyway. We are allowed to speculate here still, aren't we?

but speculation here and $2.50 will buy you a cup of coffee.

Much as your reponse and $1.75 will buy a bottle of sweet ice tea.

Thank you.

however I find the OP to be equally phrased in such a manner as you describe and came across as "shitty" to me which prompted my response. That said, in practical terms comments here really won't change anything regarding this issue and are nothing more than conjecture, speculation and opinion, as are most of the posts on this board.

Mr. Mueller is doing his job based upon his directive, training, the information available at the time and the laws that apply to this case. If you doubt that, believe that your's, mine or other's opinions will make an impact on the issue then by all means speculate away.

It's hard to phrase posts perfectly.. especially when you post on impulse. I think many of us just want to brainstorm. I don't think of that as a bad thing.

Most of the time on the news subject matter is treated very lightly without any real analysis. Haven't you seen a news story and immediately come up with a million questions you would have asked?

I don't think any of the questions regarding Mueller actions have anything to do with not thinking he isn't doing a superb job.

Avoiding the endless blather of the 24/7 breathless, breaking news infotainment talking heads who do little more than self promote and speculate between ads for drugs we never knew we needed. I take in what I can in a variety of topics, but spend little time with questions as I am off to the next bit of news.

It is easy to misinterpret the intent of posters. We are all guilty sometimes , I think .

I think I have the most brilliant idea LOL only to pull up my post later and I have said something wrong, used the wrong word, whatever and have a dozen responses "how dumb" "you're wrong" "how dare you use the p word when describing a weakling". My bruised ego finally made me cut down.

I understand when people are different and don't want to hypothesize about things. But I don't really understand why they would even waste their time on a discussion forum.

Why bother even being on a discussion board if you don’t want to discuss issues?

We all learn to sharpen our debating skills here. My debating skills have grown strong just by posting on DU and getting slapped upside the head a few times. You learn to express yourself intelligently, succinctly, and armed with backup when you opine on DU.

This board will keep you honest AND informed!

You also learn that because of that you can believe the more wise and learned among us.

Costs more too.

They've all been saying that there is more evidence against Manafort in this trial than the last.

It'd be money wasted paying lawyers for a lost cause.

..why spend the money on a trial? Just plead guilty for lesser charges.

Then wait on your pardon...

Mueller knows he waiting on a pardon, I get the feeling.

He'll have to plead to the whole ball of wax. Of course, he's got to stand in open court and say what he is pleading guilty to.

I think everyone is expecting there will be an immediate pardon.

Going from a court that favored him more to one that is more difficult makes it dicier yet.

If Manafort confesses under oath that he committed crimes and that Trump was aware of them or was also involved?

BTW,there are still ten items hanging from Virginia.

Federal Prison System to employ what is called Van Rehabilitation once he is Sentenced.

Him a van and driving horribly so he's knocked around?

he is hauled around the USA in a Prison Van for several days or weeks,different County Jail each night. Usually reserved for those whom think they just screwed over a Prosecutor or smarted off to some jailer.

I should think there are lots of tools in Mueller's chest though, even if he knows full well that Trump is trying to do a back-channel pardon. Earlier on, it was reported that Mueller and SDNY were sharing info with the NY State AG (and perhaps the NYC DA).... So, I have a hard time thinking Manafort will not end up in prison regardless. Knowing that, I really can't imagine Mueller would not gain something from Manafort. If nothing else, pardon or no, Mueller can require Manafort's testimony during which he'd not be eligible to plead the 5th.

If Mueller has evidence of both of them involved in a crime, such as money-laundering, he could still charge Trump later, could he not??

than the first one, since a DC jury is likely to be less sympathetic, and the judge certainly isn't as much of a problem for the prosecutors as Ellis was. Also, another trial will be extremely costly, and he is probably about out of money. Manafort has a lot to lose by not pleading guilty and instead proceeding to trial. This suggests that Mueller is likely to have required some amount of cooperation in exchange for accepting a plea - unless Manafort is offering a straight plea to everything with no concessions regarding reduced penalties. His prior conviction carries a likely sentence of about 10 years, but a straight plea in this case would probably result in an effective life sentence.

There is the possibility that he has been promised a pardon but that has its own problems because it would mean he no longer has 5th Amendment protection and therefore could be required to testify as a witness. Also, if the state of New York prosecuted Manafort, Trump can't pardon him. And, of course, there is the question of whether promising someone a pardon in exchange for their silence is another act of obstruction of justice.

Pardoning Manafort wouldn't be much help to Trump since Manafort could then be required to testify since he would no longer be able to use the 5th amendment. I suspect that Muller has plenty of information should Manafort lie under oath post pardon.

Let’s remember that he has a vast trove of information about what happened in 2016.

He’s got his own plan and strategy. I’m betting on the pro.

Maybe he'll implicate himself only with protection? Insurance? Limits to prosecution?

1. He's cooperating and flipping; or
2. He's not, and Mueller knows a pardon is coming, so RM is saving his office the time/money necessary to get to guilty anyway.

I'd also guess that:

1. Mueller doesn't necessarily need Paulie Walnuts' testimony; and
2. Paulie knows that if he flips, he's a dead man, whether he's in prison or not. The Russians will kill you, your family, everyone you know and everyone they know if they feel like it.

Therefore, my guess is it's basic pragmatism from Mueller.

that we may just not get from the Mueller investigation all that we hope for.

Well, here's what Seth Abramson says about the news.


1) Manafort is cooperating, giving up Trump/someone else.

2) Trump illegally promised Manafort a pardon.

3) Mueller offered Manafort a long consecutive sentence—which Manafort took because he thinks if the facts come out at trial he'll get far worse.

Let's say Manafort refuses to cooperate in the way which Mueller wants, but has acknowledged to himself that unless he gets pardoned he is going to die in prison of old age before he finishes his sentences.

So Manafort pleads guilty (to save lawyer money, to get the case over with so Trump can pardon him sooner, for whatever motivation) but doesn't get much in terms of lower sentencing recommendation or dropping certain charges. And Mueller gets a de facto life sentence (given Manafort's age and the charges he faces) and maybe some asset forfeiture too. Nobody is happy but nobody really gave away anything either.

I guess what I'm saying is that it could be rational for Mueller to make some kind of a deal -- so long as it is not a sweetheart deal for Manafort -- even without getting what he wants.

I believe Manafort is assured that Trump will pardon him, but that would be impossible if Trump ends up being indicted. Can a president under federal indictment pardon another who has pleaded guilty to federal crimes? nope

Manafort is staring down the barrel of many years in prison if he gets indicted in a new trial in DC whereas he's looking at maybe a ten year sentence if he takes a plea of guilty.

Prosecutors know they have him pretty much nailed as far as any trial goes and Manafort knows it too, that's why he wants to avoid a trial at any cost. But the prosecutors wouldn't have accepted a plea deal unless they were getting something valuable in exchange. So, what could be that valuable to prosecutors?

One thing that I'm thinking of is the fact that since Manafort was part of that Trump Tower meeting with Don Jr and Kusher that he must know whether or not Trump knew about that meeting before and after it happened. If Manafort provides that kind of damaging information on Trump that would be enough to indict Trump on collusion and possibly conspiracy charges.

That stupid agreement between Manafort's attorneys and Giuliani that Giuliani revealed yesterday means that Manafort is not likely to give Mueller anything that would jeopardize the anticipated pardon.

I wonder why those kinds of agreements are allowed. The exchange of information between co-conspirators defeats the Rule of Law, doesn't it?

The effect of that admittance is to totally knock down the following falsehoods:

1. That this has been a witch hunt

2. That crimes did not occur

3. That Manafort, an innocent man, has been railroaded

That delineation of the real crimes that have been committed will probably be important in the near future. Eventually, when Trump and/or his crew are indicted, most likely some of those indictments will be based on crimes that Manafort admitted have occurred, so that avenue of attack by the indictees will be obviated.

I'm sure that Mueller will get all the juice from the lemon.

Link to tweet

If Manafort isn't ratting him out?

For money laundering and other business related crimes.

So it would have to be Virginia that prosecutes him.

......the ogres of the right wing will get away with their crimes again. The howling from them will never end.

Oh please. Oh please

If Trump pardons him?

...get it and decided to plead guilty on all charges. Save money. Gamble on a pardon.