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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCarlos Ramos returns to umpire's chair after Serena Williams row as statistics back him up
As the now famous umpire Carlos Ramos prepared for his first match since the controversial US Open final, a new set of figures showed that men have received almost three times as many code violations as women in the past 20 years of grand-slam events.
... statistics showing that there were 86 code violations handed out to male players at the US Open, and only 22 to women. Now, a more detailed analysis of the past 20 years of grand-slam events has revealed a long-term split of 1,534 (men) to 526 (women).
Different offences have a different gender balance. Take racket abuse, which constituted the second of Williamss three offences. Men are responsible for more than 86 per cent of these code violations, as well as just under 80 per cent of verbal-abuse violations.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2018/09/13/carlos-ramos-returns-chair-serena-williams-row-statistics-back/
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)There are tennis ball abusers?
What do they do? Shave the fur off and send them out in the cold?
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)I was born in a beautiful modern factory, using the latest technological processes. I was placed in a cylindrical orphanage with my two brothers, and we eagerly awaited our adoption! Then along comes Serena Williams. She adopted us alright. She took us one by one and paddled us mercilessly. We had never done anything wrong. We didn't deserve that treatment. Now my brothers and I are labelled 'unfit' for adoption by a different human parent. Instead, we were given to Max, the German shepherd. He loves us, but he is sometimes rough. His kisses are a little toothy and make our hair smell like kibble. Sometimes his human takes us to the lake, but we never get a relaxing picnic. We get thrown out into the water (luckily, I'm a natural floater), and it's up to Max to save us.
I, Wilson, on this day of September 14, 2018, do attest and affirm that Serena Williams did willfully and with malice aforethought abuse me and my brothers.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)"If you want to see tennis ball abuse, get a labrador retriever."
dsc
(52,164 posts)those numbers are meaningless
ProfessorGAC
(65,085 posts)Stats on traffic violations cannot take into account how many speeders don't get caught, but they're still valid stats.
In order for these stats to be meaningless, it would require a willful effort to punish one gender more than the other.
Just as in the traffic stats, the offenses are reasonably linked to occurrence. That's why an 18 year old pays more insurance for the same vehicle than a 45 year old. The likelihood of violation or accident is presumptively linked to the actual occurences. That's the whole basis for most actuarial models.
Polly Hennessey
(6,799 posts)WhiteTara
(29,719 posts)Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)It shouldn't be an even distribution, with men potentially playing 5 sets with women maxed out at 3.
Regardless, anyone who follows tennis knows that men argue more and are punished more. Not sure why this article was necessary.
Serena had one of her frequent US Open tantrums while failing in the final as huge favorite, and somehow it was twisted into something more this time.
WhiteTara
(29,719 posts)bigtree
(85,999 posts)...seems like an incomplete analysis.
This may just indicate that men are the most prevalent offenders.
Not sure how this is relevant to the bias Ramos, himself, is accused of.
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)Maybe that men are more emotional and act out more often than women? Women are better at keeping a lid on their emotions for some reason? Women are scrutinized closer for "coaching" violations?
While it's instructive that these are the fines that have been levied, the more pertinent statistic would be the number of point and game penalties that have been assessed by the chair umpires in grand slam events, and particularly when those penalties have been assessed in a grand slam final. The pressures and the emotions are quite different in a first round match on Court 16 between a couple of ham-and-eggers than in the semifinal or final match on Court 1 or Center Court.
Polly Hennessey
(6,799 posts)when facts dont go our way.
bigtree
(85,999 posts)...making broad assumptions based on incomplete facts is sophistry, at best.
...besides:
Link to tweet
John Fante
(3,479 posts)Billie Jean King tweeted this: When a woman is emotional, shes hysterical and shes penalized for it. When a man does the same, hes outspoken & and there are no repercussions.
BJK wasn't speaking about this one umpire. She was speaking in general, and she was wrong.
bigtree
(85,999 posts)...many covered in this thread.
One of the most obvious is the bias this particular ref has engaged in. That's far more relevant to this debate about Serena and Ramos than the point BJK was making about the sport in general.
You telling me "what I want to believe" is hysterical.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,330 posts)McEnroe is a jerk and so is Serena.
Serena should have been smart enough to cool her heels after the second penalty.
LenaBaby61
(6,976 posts)Not just penalize Serena, but Venus also.
You know, there are people making comments who don't even really follow men's or women's tennis. I was watching that Djokovic match, and he went at Ramos pretty voraciously, and as the comment says he wasn't docked a point or game.
I had guy tell me on twitter that women are coddled more than men, which is why Serena thought she could get away with what she did. I said uh, no:
Too bad Serena wasn't Nick Kyrgios who was having a unenthusiastic match at this years US Open, because Nick got a pep talk from Senior referee Mohamed Lahyani. For anyone who doesn't know who Nick is, googe his name and see some of the things associated with him on a tennis court. I'm by no means saying that Serena should have gotten as mad as she did @ Ramos (Too bad Serena's ire wasn't directed at chair umpire Mariana Alves & crew who in 2004, screwed Serena out of a US Open QF match win.
TeamPooka
(24,232 posts)John Fante
(3,479 posts)Last edited Fri Sep 14, 2018, 04:01 PM - Edit history (1)
If these numbers were reversed, there would be a firestorm of controversy right now, and rightfully so. They are not "meaningless" statistics as many are claiming.
TeamPooka
(24,232 posts)but they were all white and mostly male.
John Fante
(3,479 posts)Those statistics have nothing to do with the issue of penalizing women players/Serena unfairly in the same circumstance as a male player.
whistler162
(11,155 posts)and I doubt Serena Wiliams will ever apologize for being sexist towards Carlos Ramos!
lame54
(35,295 posts)which is what started this whole thing
Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)They also lead in lying about it
lame54
(35,295 posts)I was pointing out how they get called out more not that they do it more
TeamPooka
(24,232 posts)MicaelS
(8,747 posts)And I do not like grunting in tennis, I do not care who is doing it. I will turn off a match rather listen to that crap.
bigtree
(85,999 posts)LenaBaby61
(6,976 posts)ripcord
(5,439 posts)He is just claiming, like my kids when they were in grade school, that everyone else does it so it is ok. Since her coach was actually cheating Serena owes Ramos an apology for her outburst, these officials only make $450 a day to deal with a bunch of prima donnas. If Serena wants to throw a tantrum she should direct it towards her coach.
LiberalFighter
(50,980 posts)So how long do they ref? 3 hours, 5 hours? If 3 hours that is $150 an hour. If 5 hours that is $90 an hour.
MichMan
(11,940 posts)LiberalFighter
(50,980 posts)malaise
(269,087 posts)Sadly this wasn't an umpiring decision it was a poor judgement call made by an umpire and those stats are on my side.