General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCohen and Manafort have flipped for a very, very, very simple reason:
They know Trump's character.
They know that Trump is cheap.
They know that he always demands loyalty but never gives loyalty.
They know that Trump won't pardon them as long as he thinks that he can get a better "deal" for a pardon in the future.
Turbineguy
(37,354 posts)You invest in trump you lose.
not_the_one
(2,227 posts)Has a nice ring to it, and just rolls off the tongue...
Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)idea. Think they want to live and are afraid of that knock on the door or the Guy walking two steps behind you.
lindysalsagal
(20,695 posts)Should have thought of that before they committed crimes for a gangster.
brettdale
(12,382 posts)trumpy should be quite worried about now.
wishstar
(5,270 posts)while he benefits from immunity from prosecution enjoying his golf weekends at Mar a Lago, VA and NJ. No doubt he never was going to issue them pardons because he planned to make them convenient scapegoats for him to blame all the Russian campaign conspiracy and get him and his family off the hook.
dewsgirl
(14,961 posts)gibraltar72
(7,506 posts)What do you have when you're old? You have family not too much else. It had to hurt when a child disowns you. I've thought for a while Manafort would try to mitigate the damage to his family by doing something very close to the right thing.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)I have met a few really and people in my time. Not motorcycle gang bad, but business bad. They use people, lie, cheat and steal to gain riches and power.
But heres the thing...none if them think they are bad people. They always justify their actions. Even people like, getting old, facing death and life and prison can maintain their facade. But when they start losing their family, the one thing that may matter to them more than their ego, it can bring about a change. When a daughter you love is so ashamed of you she changes her name. Well, that can leave a mark.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)D23MIURG23
(2,850 posts)because dump and his kids are guilty as fuck. If Manafort's issues were "unrelated to the campaign" as the dump people want to assert, then Manafort would be the big fish, and there would be no one for him to flip on.
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)"They know that he always demands loyalty but never gives loyalty."
Michael Cohen felt betrayed by Trump, because he was betrayed. As for Manafort, who isn't the most reliable person in the world himself, who knows? His complete flip was unexpected. I think he heard something about Trump's plans that changed his mind.
Haggis for Breakfast
(6,831 posts)for a New York minute to fuck them over if it benefits him.
onit2day
(1,201 posts)duforsure
(11,885 posts)3 or more family members aren't already talking to Mueller , especially now. We'll see soon , but I think they saw this coming too and have seen they're only hope is to talk and get ahead of him, or face a lot worse consequences . They won't go down for him, they all hate him, and know he'll turn on them eventually. It could be even more . Being racked with fear what'll happen to them they'll talk, and tell them all they know to not end up in prison forever. Trump knows this too. He has no one left he can trust, and its driving him even more mad. He attacks those that flip , but he'll offer to flip on putin at some point to escape justice, and a lesser sentence. He's a career criminal who is outraged its catching up to him now. He'll be floating a deal , just a matter of time.
duforsure
(11,885 posts)Both trump and Mitch McConnell both look sick and not well at all. trump could stroke out, and Mitch looks horribly bad now. I think its effecting their health knowing what's coming. Both Cohen and Manifort information will put many more in jeopardy of being criminally charged in Congress, and in this administration soon. I'd hate to be a trump supporter and loyalist who is involved with all they've done. They're looking at some serious charges coming their way. Too many already know about them all too. trump can;t stop it either. It could well become the biggest turnover in a USA government ever soon. And the most in government being found guilty too.
eallen
(2,953 posts)Prison beds are hard. The food is bad. The company is depressing. The routine is oppressive.
The Wizard
(12,545 posts)no pardons
Iggo
(47,558 posts)Nitram
(22,822 posts)other people. Who would know better than Cohen how quickly Trump can turn on a loyal ally. Manifort finally realized what was in store for him and he made the inevitable choice. Mueller and his team are the best at what they do.
Bettie
(16,111 posts)pardoning them doesn't benefit him politically and he has zero awareness that he could be subject to any consequences beyond a fine (that he figures he'd weasel out of paying).
He has never, in his life, faced consequences for his actions. I doubt it is even possible for him to consider that he might get caught in this, he's just upset about his "ratings".
panfluteman
(2,065 posts)And that is Vladimir Putin. Heck - Trump has always worshiped money and wealth, and Putin is reputed to be the world's richest man. Putin is also an absolute autocrat, and is therefore Trump's idol and role model.
I fear, however, that this may be nothing more than a classic case of unrequited love - on Trump's part, of course.