Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
67 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Kavanaugh accuser speaks out: (Original Post) Kingofalldems Sep 2018 OP
She needs to get to testify Gothmog Sep 2018 #1
How would that work? The confirmation hearings are over. Demit Sep 2018 #9
They were over when Hill accused Thomas too FBaggins Sep 2018 #15
What part of the accuser did not want Feinstein to make it public DURHAM D Sep 2018 #18
Both indict Feinstein's judgement FBaggins Sep 2018 #19
Thanks man for explaining DURHAM D Sep 2018 #21
I understood it was her name she didn't want made public - not the accusation Bradshaw3 Sep 2018 #26
That's not what Feinstein's communications director says FBaggins Sep 2018 #31
Ok, thanks Bradshaw3 Sep 2018 #32
You asked a question and I answered it... now that's mansplaining? FBaggins Sep 2018 #29
Not at all. Perfect strategy. First the victim did not want her name used. still_one Sep 2018 #61
She did ask questions, didn't she? That's why Kavanaugh denied it? nt Honeycombe8 Sep 2018 #52
She asked something about sexual assault in the hearings? FBaggins Sep 2018 #57
Oh. I guess she couldn't ask, because she couldn't identify the accuser. nt Honeycombe8 Sep 2018 #60
They re-opened the hearings for Anita Hill and can do so again Gothmog Sep 2018 #16
Back then, the Democrats were in the majority, john657 Sep 2018 #34
They won't do it. Mr.Bill Sep 2018 #35
Not by the minority party they can't. Demit Sep 2018 #38
They can reconvene. triron Sep 2018 #51
The Republicans run the show. What makes you think they'd reconvene? Demit Sep 2018 #58
She needs personal security. TNNurse Sep 2018 #50
Whoa! Here we go! She's got her therapist's notes! PearliePoo2 Sep 2018 #2
Ooh. Awesome. triron Sep 2018 #53
I hope she can testify if she chooses to... steve2470 Sep 2018 #3
I want to thank her for going public manor321 Sep 2018 #4
I have a feeling she will testify BigmanPigman Sep 2018 #5
"While his friend watched" dalton99a Sep 2018 #6
Washington Post article; "Ford said she Hortensis Sep 2018 #7
Holy Shit malaise Sep 2018 #10
Yes, and we already had many proofs of that. This is Hortensis Sep 2018 #41
This is a great article by the Washington Post Gothmog Sep 2018 #17
She took a polygraph and passed! PearliePoo2 Sep 2018 #8
I admire this woman's courage and sense of responsibility. NoSmoke Sep 2018 #36
Kavanaugh in trouble now, GOP can no longer attack an anonymous letter but there is now a face to it sunonmars Sep 2018 #11
Much worse than I expected from the bits leaking out Ms. Toad Sep 2018 #12
Now we know why the GOP had that "letter" ready to back him....They knew he was a predator. sunonmars Sep 2018 #13
And, had apparently already talked to Judge, from the WAPO article. Ms. Toad Sep 2018 #22
I don't know. It's not exactly a case of "I thought no meant maybe." Demit Sep 2018 #45
I'm not suggestion it ws a misunderstood signal. Ms. Toad Sep 2018 #62
She passed an FBI polygraph! Tavarious Jackson Sep 2018 #14
Good question!! I think the answer is obvious. InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2018 #23
Not an FBI polygraph, john657 Sep 2018 #37
Thanks Tavarious Jackson Sep 2018 #42
From MSNBC Gothmog Sep 2018 #20
Different rules apply... Guilded Lilly Sep 2018 #24
You're probably right. But I hope not. dchill Sep 2018 #54
Me, too, dchill, One of them has to be the magic turning point! Guilded Lilly Sep 2018 #63
Post removed Post removed Sep 2018 #25
Feinstein did nothing wrong. phleshdef Sep 2018 #33
That's simply not true FBaggins Sep 2018 #43
You are misinformed as to how this went down. phleshdef Sep 2018 #44
She said that shouldn't be the reason LostinRed Sep 2018 #46
Seconded. This accusation was going nowhere without the accuser. bettyellen Sep 2018 #47
I don't think she will be the last to come out with accusations about this judge. ooky Sep 2018 #27
That's what I think it would take FBaggins Sep 2018 #39
My fear is that the other women he has attacked Ilsa Sep 2018 #49
GOP confirming him at this point is actual, physical war on America Eliot Rosewater Sep 2018 #28
Just another repub creep Bradshaw3 Sep 2018 #30
K&R Scurrilous Sep 2018 #40
She took a polygraph. Has it in therapists' notes twice years ago. And now begins the retaliation... Honeycombe8 Sep 2018 #48
I don't I ever knew any male friend in high school or college that would go there. triron Sep 2018 #55
k&r Demovictory9 Sep 2018 #56
I admire her bravery DesertRat Sep 2018 #59
I understand her fear and wanting to remain anonymous initially. DangerousRhythm Sep 2018 #64
K&R UTUSN Sep 2018 #65
If this man is confirmed we need to impeach him Kingofalldems Sep 2018 #66
This will come up Gothmog Sep 2018 #67

Gothmog

(145,278 posts)
1. She needs to get to testify
Sun Sep 16, 2018, 01:39 PM
Sep 2018

This is a big deal. This lady needs to be allowed to testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee https://politicalwire.com/2018/09/16/kavanaugh-accuser-speaks-out-publicly/

Speaking publicly for the first time, Christine Blasey Ford said that one summer in the early 1980s, Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh and a friend — both “stumbling drunk” — “corralled her into a bedroom during a gathering of teenagers at a house in Montgomery County,” the Washington Post reports.

“While his friend watched, she said, Kavanaugh pinned her to a bed on her back and groped her over her clothes, grinding his body against hers and clumsily attempting to pull off her one-piece bathing suit and the clothing she wore over it. When she tried to scream, she said, he put his hand over her mouth.”

Also interesting: “She engaged Debra Katz, a Washington lawyer known for her work on sexual harassment cases. On the advice of Katz, who believed Ford would be attacked as a liar if she came forward, Ford took a polygraph test administered by a former FBI agent in early August. The results, which Katz provided to The Post, concluded that Ford was being truthful when she said a statement summarizing her allegations was accurate.”
 

Demit

(11,238 posts)
9. How would that work? The confirmation hearings are over.
Sun Sep 16, 2018, 01:58 PM
Sep 2018

I don't believe the Democrats can either reopen them or call for a new investigation, as the minority party.

FBaggins

(26,742 posts)
15. They were over when Hill accused Thomas too
Sun Sep 16, 2018, 02:09 PM
Sep 2018

Of course... Democrats controlled the committee at the time.

OTOH... Feinstein has known about this since July and didn't ask any questions about it.

FBaggins

(26,742 posts)
19. Both indict Feinstein's judgement
Sun Sep 16, 2018, 02:18 PM
Sep 2018

The fact that Feinstein made it public and the fact that she waited until the 11th hour to do so.

It would have been different if Feinstein did nothing and Ford decided on her own to go public. It would also have been different (though still inappropriate) if Feinstein had received the letter and included it as part of the hearings (in closed session perhaps).

Bradshaw3

(7,522 posts)
26. I understood it was her name she didn't want made public - not the accusation
Sun Sep 16, 2018, 02:30 PM
Sep 2018

Why else would she send the letter?

FBaggins

(26,742 posts)
31. That's not what Feinstein's communications director says
Sun Sep 16, 2018, 02:33 PM
Sep 2018

“The Senator took these allegations seriously and believed they should be public, however, the woman in question made it clear she did not want this information to be public.”

https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article218415520.html

FBaggins

(26,742 posts)
29. You asked a question and I answered it... now that's mansplaining?
Sun Sep 16, 2018, 02:32 PM
Sep 2018

The "reality" here is that republicans control the process and when Feinstein insists on reopening the hearings... they're going to tell her that it's her fault.

still_one

(92,197 posts)
61. Not at all. Perfect strategy. First the victim did not want her name used.
Sun Sep 16, 2018, 03:31 PM
Sep 2018

The hearings would have the republicans out in full force slurring her. Doing this at the 11 th hour doesn’t give them time to do a Clarence Thomas on her, and now that she is public, it may create enough doubt without a Republican kangaroo court

If this was done two months ago it would be faded by now, and the R/W echo chamber would have gone in full attack mode

FBaggins

(26,742 posts)
57. She asked something about sexual assault in the hearings?
Sun Sep 16, 2018, 03:22 PM
Sep 2018

Not that I’ve seen.

His denial was prompted by news reports of what was in the letter.

Gothmog

(145,278 posts)
16. They re-opened the hearings for Anita Hill and can do so again
Sun Sep 16, 2018, 02:09 PM
Sep 2018

There has been no vote by the Judiciary committee and so the hearings can be re-opened

 

john657

(1,058 posts)
34. Back then, the Democrats were in the majority,
Sun Sep 16, 2018, 02:39 PM
Sep 2018

now the pubs are in the majority, you really think they're going to re-open the hearings and allow her to testify?

PearliePoo2

(7,768 posts)
2. Whoa! Here we go! She's got her therapist's notes!
Sun Sep 16, 2018, 01:43 PM
Sep 2018

Holy shit! This takes a lot of courage. She will be fiercely attacked!

Hang on folks.

BigmanPigman

(51,594 posts)
5. I have a feeling she will testify
Sun Sep 16, 2018, 01:48 PM
Sep 2018

if she went as far as speaking out. If she is a professor she is smart and knows what she is doing.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
7. Washington Post article; "Ford said she
Sun Sep 16, 2018, 01:50 PM
Sep 2018
told no one of the incident in any detail until 2012, when she was in couples therapy with her husband. The therapist’s notes, portions of which were provided by Ford and reviewed by The Washington Post, do not mention Kavanaugh’s name but say she reported that she was attacked by students “from an elitist boys’ school” who went on to become “highly respected and high-ranking members of society in Washington.” The notes say four boys were involved, a discrepancy Ford says was an error on the therapist’s part. Ford said there were four boys at the party but only two in the room. Notes from an individual therapy session the following year, when she was being treated for what she says have been long-term effects of the incident, show Ford described a “rape attempt” in her late teens.

In an interview, her husband, Russell Ford, said that in the 2012 sessions, she recounted being trapped in a room with two drunken boys, one of whom pinned her to a bed, molested her and prevented her from screaming. He said he recalled that his wife used Kavanaugh’s last name and voiced concern that Kavanaugh — then a federal judge — might one day be nominated to the Supreme Court. ...

Christine Ford is a professor at Palo Alto University who teaches in a consortium with Stanford University, training graduate students in clinical psychology. Her work has been widely published in academic journals. She contacted The Post through a tip line in early July, when it had become clear that Kavanaugh was on the shortlist of possible nominees to replace retiring justice Anthony M. Kennedy but before Trump announced his name publicly. A registered Democrat who has made small contributions to political organizations, she contacted her congresswoman, Democrat Anna G. Eshoo, around the same time. In late July, she sent a letter via Eshoo’s office to Sen. Dianne Feinstein of California, the ranking Democrat on the Judiciary Committee. In the letter, which was read to The Post, Ford described the incident and said she expected her story to be kept confidential. She signed the letter as Christine Blasey, the name she uses professionally.

... She engaged Debra Katz, a Washington lawyer known for her work on sexual harassment cases. On the advice of Katz, who believed Ford would be attacked as a liar if she came forward, Ford took a polygraph test administered by a former FBI agent in early August. The results, which Katz provided to The Post, concluded that Ford was being truthful when she said a statement summarizing her allegations was accurate. .... Katz said she believes Feinstein honored Ford’s request to keep her allegation confidential, but “regrettably others did not.” ...

Ford said she has not spoken with Kavanaugh since that night. And she told no one at the time what had happened to her. She was terrified, she said, that she would be in trouble if her parents realized she had been at a party where teenagers were drinking, and she worried they might figure it out even if she did not tell them. ... She married her husband in 2002. Early in their relationship, she told him she had been a victim of physical abuse, he said. A decade later, he learned the details of that alleged abuse when the therapist asked her to tell the story, he said.

WaPo: https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/california-professor-writer-of-confidential-brett-kavanaugh-letter-speaks-out-about-her-allegation-of-sexual-assault/2018/09/16/46982194-b846-11e8-94eb-3bd52dfe917b_story.html?utm_term=.3783f78dd580

The article describes what she remembers of the incident. She believes she would have been 15 and Kavanaugh 17. She was able to break free and run and lock herself in a bathroom when for a second time the other boy in the room jumped on them and they fell off the bed. She says she was wearing clothes over a bathing suit. If the story is true, that may really be what saved her from being raped.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
41. Yes, and we already had many proofs of that. This is
Sun Sep 16, 2018, 02:48 PM
Sep 2018

frankly prurient sensationalism until people examine what evidence turns up. But it's grabbing attention, and hopefully it'll get through to those who were so far unreached by proofs of his severe moral, ethical, and ideological unfitness. We're coming down to the wire here.

Fwow, I also have no problem believing a jock with this man's proven vicious, aggressive streak and bad character might have attempted rape. If he did, wonder if he knew while drunk that that bathing suit was under her clothes. I remember struggling to get them on and off. They'd buy time as an initial rape barrier.

Gothmog

(145,278 posts)
17. This is a great article by the Washington Post
Sun Sep 16, 2018, 02:10 PM
Sep 2018

I read this article carefully and right now I believe the Professor. As far as I am concerned she did everything correctly

 

NoSmoke

(69 posts)
36. I admire this woman's courage and sense of responsibility.
Sun Sep 16, 2018, 02:42 PM
Sep 2018

I also have no reason to doubt her claims but, polygraph testing is inherently unreliable (one reason it is not admissible in court) so cannot be sensibly used to verify or refute someone's claims.

Ms. Toad

(34,073 posts)
12. Much worse than I expected from the bits leaking out
Sun Sep 16, 2018, 02:05 PM
Sep 2018

And much more credible (as likely to be judged by the people making the decision) becuase of years of telling bits of the story that are entirely consistent with the WAPO story, to numberous people - including her husband and therapists, long before Kavanaugh was a candidate for the Supreme Court.

I am hopeful he is toast - but also fearful of who might replace him as a nominee.

Ms. Toad

(34,073 posts)
22. And, had apparently already talked to Judge, from the WAPO article.
Sun Sep 16, 2018, 02:23 PM
Sep 2018

The second person in the room.

As to whether he is a predator - I want to know more - and I want to know how he now feels about the incident. Not everyone who is sexually aggressive on one occasion, particularly while a drunk teen, is a predator.

A classmate of mine in college was sexually aggressive with me - not as bad as this, but inappropriate. He recently contacted me because his behavior had been eating at him for 4 decades - and he flew 2/3 of the way across the country to apologize to me about it.

Not saying this is true in all cases - a person who groped me in Jr. High school recently reached out to me on facebook with a friend request. His private messages to me (as well as what he posts) make it clear he has not changed - and has no awareness of the inappropriateness of his behavior back then).

I'm just not willing to label someone a predator for the rest of their life based on a single incident of attempted rape while still in high school. His behavior as a teenager was certainly crimnial - I want to know whether he regrets it, has repeated it with other women, continues it today, etc. before I use that label.

However - if he continues to deny it and smears the person he attempted to rape (now that she has come forward and there is a specific allegation on the table), that's all I need to know. Even if changed, a person who does further harm today to someone he attempted to rape years in order to further his political career, is unfit for the Supreme Court.

 

Demit

(11,238 posts)
45. I don't know. It's not exactly a case of "I thought no meant maybe."
Sun Sep 16, 2018, 02:57 PM
Sep 2018

It's not like they were on a date. It's not like they were making out. He WITH HIS FRIEND'S HELP forced her into the room. He tried to take her clothes off. He put his hand over her mouth when she tried to scream. He was intent on rape.

I don't see how this could be a youthful indiscretion, or a misunderstood signal. He intended forceful rape against her will. And I'll bet it's not an isolated incident either. Like the old saying, "as the twig is bent, so grows the tree."

Ms. Toad

(34,073 posts)
62. I'm not suggestion it ws a misunderstood signal.
Sun Sep 16, 2018, 03:39 PM
Sep 2018

I'm just suggesting that I have known teenage boys who have engaged in similar actions, later recognized how wrong they were/how much damage they have done, have gone on to be outstanding citizens and, in at least one instance with which I am intimiately familiar because I was the victim, it would not be a stretch to say he became a feminist as an adult.

I'm just not wiling label an adult as evil based on a single bad act in his youth.

It may well not be an isolated incident - although I haven't heard any suggestion there are others yet. If it isn't - and especially if they continued through adult-hood (a la Trump), that is a very different question. And his attitude now that a specific victim has come forward with details of a specic incident will speak volumes from my perspective. If he does not actively squash efforts to smear his accuser, he's toast on this matter as far as I'm concerned.

Guilded Lilly

(5,591 posts)
24. Different rules apply...
Sun Sep 16, 2018, 02:25 PM
Sep 2018

#1: for women
#2: for Judges
#3: for Republican men
#4: for Republican men who are Judges and are accused by women of sexual abuse/violence.

doncha know.

She is credible.
She is a respected professional.
She has the backing of other professionals who have helped her with the resulting trauma.

No matter.
See number 4 above.

Response to Kingofalldems (Original post)

FBaggins

(26,742 posts)
43. That's simply not true
Sun Sep 16, 2018, 02:52 PM
Sep 2018

Ford's wishes did not include publicly releasing her allegations (which almost necessarily destroyed her anonymity - and did in this case).

 

phleshdef

(11,936 posts)
44. You are misinformed as to how this went down.
Sun Sep 16, 2018, 02:56 PM
Sep 2018

I'm on my phone instead of my PC, otherwise I'd explain it at length. For now, I refer you to links provided in this thread.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211140691

LostinRed

(840 posts)
46. She said that shouldn't be the reason
Sun Sep 16, 2018, 03:01 PM
Sep 2018

To vote against him look for the article on the huffington post. That is what I was referring to.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
47. Seconded. This accusation was going nowhere without the accuser.
Sun Sep 16, 2018, 03:03 PM
Sep 2018

She respected the woman’s wishes.

FBaggins

(26,742 posts)
39. That's what I think it would take
Sun Sep 16, 2018, 02:46 PM
Sep 2018

It's highly unlikely that an abuser only did something like this once.

Ilsa

(61,695 posts)
49. My fear is that the other women he has attacked
Sun Sep 16, 2018, 03:14 PM
Sep 2018

will not have the credentials this woman has, and because of that, will be afraid to come forward. Without money or status or power, they may feel like this is a battle they don't want.

Bradshaw3

(7,522 posts)
30. Just another repub creep
Sun Sep 16, 2018, 02:32 PM
Sep 2018

Kav's reaction to the dad of the Florida shooting victim said a lot about who the person behind that good guy act is. Now it's confirmed.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
48. She took a polygraph. Has it in therapists' notes twice years ago. And now begins the retaliation...
Sun Sep 16, 2018, 03:10 PM
Sep 2018

The poor woman will be raked over the coals, like Anita Hill was. Still, she's doing her civic duty, as she regards it. She's very brave. And so is her husband, who has also spoken out.

What he did is not normal for male teens. The male teen, even drunk, could get pushy, in my experience. Could grow a lot of hands. Could get angry, even. But pinning a 15 year old down while laughing like a maniac, and then covering her mouth so she can't scream...that's not normal.

DesertRat

(27,995 posts)
59. I admire her bravery
Sun Sep 16, 2018, 03:25 PM
Sep 2018

It takes a lot of courage to tackle things in therapy, but to come forward publicly and share her own story in her own words, against someone with immense resources, is extremely brave.

This really is an excellent, detailed article.

DangerousRhythm

(2,916 posts)
64. I understand her fear and wanting to remain anonymous initially.
Sun Sep 16, 2018, 04:48 PM
Sep 2018

I had a similar incident happen to me as a nearly 13 year old by a classmate at my then best friend's house. We were all students at a local Catholic school. Basically, and I can count the number of people I've even told this on one hand, my best friend's younger brother held my arms behind my back while her cousin (in my grade and classes - a LOT of girls in my class had crushes on him, btw) tried to take my clothes off and was groping me while I screamed my head off. I screamed so loudly and so much as I struggled to break free that when I got home, I realized my throat was bleeding. I was spitting blood into my sink. I'd like to add that my then best friend didn't even bother to help me, either. I'm sure she heard me screaming. We drifted apart over that summer as we entered high school together.

Today, he's regarded as a hero and is actually a small time member of that area's Republican party, and I'm watching him from afar because THIS situation is my fear. He's married now, with kids.

He actually had the balls to friend me on Facebook years ago, and I was hoping for some kind of apology from him but he never even said a word to me and it seemed like he was a "girl collector" if you know what I mean (guys who friend request very attractive women they don't even know because they're creepers), and of course they all had big boobs. That was his focus on me too, ugh. I deleted him when I realized no apology would be coming.

As for proof, the only proof I have of it happening at the time is that he spread some kind of rumor about me after that happened, among our class, and I'm not even sure what he said exactly, but when we got our yearbooks that year, there was a section where my name was mentioned in a veiled "joke" about me "liking volleyball". No, I was never into sports, being an artsy kid, and it was entirely a way to mock me and humiliate me publicly for my boobs being groped by him, while slipping under the radar of teachers... in print for a book I had to pay for, no less. The cruelty made me nauseous then and today. I still have the yearbook, AND I just remembered I also have personal photos from around the time of the incident of the group of us hanging out in that neighborhood. I hope I'm never put in a situation like this poor woman where I'm pushed into using them. I don't relish the idea of throwing myself out there to the wolves and I'm sure his wife probably has no idea he's like this.

It's fucking disgusting and this situation is dredging up all those old feelings again.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Kavanaugh accuser speaks ...