General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsGothmog
(145,278 posts)This is a big deal. This lady needs to be allowed to testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee https://politicalwire.com/2018/09/16/kavanaugh-accuser-speaks-out-publicly/
While his friend watched, she said, Kavanaugh pinned her to a bed on her back and groped her over her clothes, grinding his body against hers and clumsily attempting to pull off her one-piece bathing suit and the clothing she wore over it. When she tried to scream, she said, he put his hand over her mouth.
Also interesting: She engaged Debra Katz, a Washington lawyer known for her work on sexual harassment cases. On the advice of Katz, who believed Ford would be attacked as a liar if she came forward, Ford took a polygraph test administered by a former FBI agent in early August. The results, which Katz provided to The Post, concluded that Ford was being truthful when she said a statement summarizing her allegations was accurate.
Demit
(11,238 posts)I don't believe the Democrats can either reopen them or call for a new investigation, as the minority party.
FBaggins
(26,742 posts)Of course... Democrats controlled the committee at the time.
OTOH... Feinstein has known about this since July and didn't ask any questions about it.
DURHAM D
(32,610 posts)is hard to understand?
FBaggins
(26,742 posts)The fact that Feinstein made it public and the fact that she waited until the 11th hour to do so.
It would have been different if Feinstein did nothing and Ford decided on her own to go public. It would also have been different (though still inappropriate) if Feinstein had received the letter and included it as part of the hearings (in closed session perhaps).
DURHAM D
(32,610 posts)and ignoring reality.
Bradshaw3
(7,522 posts)Why else would she send the letter?
FBaggins
(26,742 posts)The Senator took these allegations seriously and believed they should be public, however, the woman in question made it clear she did not want this information to be public.
https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article218415520.html
Bradshaw3
(7,522 posts)FBaggins
(26,742 posts)The "reality" here is that republicans control the process and when Feinstein insists on reopening the hearings... they're going to tell her that it's her fault.
still_one
(92,197 posts)The hearings would have the republicans out in full force slurring her. Doing this at the 11 th hour doesnt give them time to do a Clarence Thomas on her, and now that she is public, it may create enough doubt without a Republican kangaroo court
If this was done two months ago it would be faded by now, and the R/W echo chamber would have gone in full attack mode
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)FBaggins
(26,742 posts)Not that Ive seen.
His denial was prompted by news reports of what was in the letter.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Gothmog
(145,278 posts)There has been no vote by the Judiciary committee and so the hearings can be re-opened
john657
(1,058 posts)now the pubs are in the majority, you really think they're going to re-open the hearings and allow her to testify?
Mr.Bill
(24,294 posts)They will ignore it and move on.
Demit
(11,238 posts)triron
(22,006 posts)Demit
(11,238 posts)TNNurse
(6,926 posts)This was brave. This is a patriot.
PearliePoo2
(7,768 posts)Holy shit! This takes a lot of courage. She will be fiercely attacked!
Hang on folks.
triron
(22,006 posts)steve2470
(37,457 posts)and the Republicans are going to try to destroy her.
manor321
(3,344 posts)Going public is a very brave thing to do.
BigmanPigman
(51,594 posts)if she went as far as speaking out. If she is a professor she is smart and knows what she is doing.
dalton99a
(81,512 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)In an interview, her husband, Russell Ford, said that in the 2012 sessions, she recounted being trapped in a room with two drunken boys, one of whom pinned her to a bed, molested her and prevented her from screaming. He said he recalled that his wife used Kavanaughs last name and voiced concern that Kavanaugh then a federal judge might one day be nominated to the Supreme Court. ...
Christine Ford is a professor at Palo Alto University who teaches in a consortium with Stanford University, training graduate students in clinical psychology. Her work has been widely published in academic journals. She contacted The Post through a tip line in early July, when it had become clear that Kavanaugh was on the shortlist of possible nominees to replace retiring justice Anthony M. Kennedy but before Trump announced his name publicly. A registered Democrat who has made small contributions to political organizations, she contacted her congresswoman, Democrat Anna G. Eshoo, around the same time. In late July, she sent a letter via Eshoos office to Sen. Dianne Feinstein of California, the ranking Democrat on the Judiciary Committee. In the letter, which was read to The Post, Ford described the incident and said she expected her story to be kept confidential. She signed the letter as Christine Blasey, the name she uses professionally.
... She engaged Debra Katz, a Washington lawyer known for her work on sexual harassment cases. On the advice of Katz, who believed Ford would be attacked as a liar if she came forward, Ford took a polygraph test administered by a former FBI agent in early August. The results, which Katz provided to The Post, concluded that Ford was being truthful when she said a statement summarizing her allegations was accurate. .... Katz said she believes Feinstein honored Fords request to keep her allegation confidential, but regrettably others did not. ...
Ford said she has not spoken with Kavanaugh since that night. And she told no one at the time what had happened to her. She was terrified, she said, that she would be in trouble if her parents realized she had been at a party where teenagers were drinking, and she worried they might figure it out even if she did not tell them. ... She married her husband in 2002. Early in their relationship, she told him she had been a victim of physical abuse, he said. A decade later, he learned the details of that alleged abuse when the therapist asked her to tell the story, he said.
WaPo: https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/california-professor-writer-of-confidential-brett-kavanaugh-letter-speaks-out-about-her-allegation-of-sexual-assault/2018/09/16/46982194-b846-11e8-94eb-3bd52dfe917b_story.html?utm_term=.3783f78dd580
The article describes what she remembers of the incident. She believes she would have been 15 and Kavanaugh 17. She was able to break free and run and lock herself in a bathroom when for a second time the other boy in the room jumped on them and they fell off the bed. She says she was wearing clothes over a bathing suit. If the story is true, that may really be what saved her from being raped.
malaise
(269,010 posts)He should be nowhere near the Supreme Court or any court for that matter.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)frankly prurient sensationalism until people examine what evidence turns up. But it's grabbing attention, and hopefully it'll get through to those who were so far unreached by proofs of his severe moral, ethical, and ideological unfitness. We're coming down to the wire here.
Fwow, I also have no problem believing a jock with this man's proven vicious, aggressive streak and bad character might have attempted rape. If he did, wonder if he knew while drunk that that bathing suit was under her clothes. I remember struggling to get them on and off. They'd buy time as an initial rape barrier.
Gothmog
(145,278 posts)I read this article carefully and right now I believe the Professor. As far as I am concerned she did everything correctly
PearliePoo2
(7,768 posts)I hope McTurtle is throwing up and filling his knickers right now!
NoSmoke
(69 posts)I also have no reason to doubt her claims but, polygraph testing is inherently unreliable (one reason it is not admissible in court) so cannot be sensibly used to verify or refute someone's claims.
sunonmars
(8,656 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,073 posts)And much more credible (as likely to be judged by the people making the decision) becuase of years of telling bits of the story that are entirely consistent with the WAPO story, to numberous people - including her husband and therapists, long before Kavanaugh was a candidate for the Supreme Court.
I am hopeful he is toast - but also fearful of who might replace him as a nominee.
sunonmars
(8,656 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,073 posts)The second person in the room.
As to whether he is a predator - I want to know more - and I want to know how he now feels about the incident. Not everyone who is sexually aggressive on one occasion, particularly while a drunk teen, is a predator.
A classmate of mine in college was sexually aggressive with me - not as bad as this, but inappropriate. He recently contacted me because his behavior had been eating at him for 4 decades - and he flew 2/3 of the way across the country to apologize to me about it.
Not saying this is true in all cases - a person who groped me in Jr. High school recently reached out to me on facebook with a friend request. His private messages to me (as well as what he posts) make it clear he has not changed - and has no awareness of the inappropriateness of his behavior back then).
I'm just not willing to label someone a predator for the rest of their life based on a single incident of attempted rape while still in high school. His behavior as a teenager was certainly crimnial - I want to know whether he regrets it, has repeated it with other women, continues it today, etc. before I use that label.
However - if he continues to deny it and smears the person he attempted to rape (now that she has come forward and there is a specific allegation on the table), that's all I need to know. Even if changed, a person who does further harm today to someone he attempted to rape years in order to further his political career, is unfit for the Supreme Court.
Demit
(11,238 posts)It's not like they were on a date. It's not like they were making out. He WITH HIS FRIEND'S HELP forced her into the room. He tried to take her clothes off. He put his hand over her mouth when she tried to scream. He was intent on rape.
I don't see how this could be a youthful indiscretion, or a misunderstood signal. He intended forceful rape against her will. And I'll bet it's not an isolated incident either. Like the old saying, "as the twig is bent, so grows the tree."
Ms. Toad
(34,073 posts)I'm just suggesting that I have known teenage boys who have engaged in similar actions, later recognized how wrong they were/how much damage they have done, have gone on to be outstanding citizens and, in at least one instance with which I am intimiately familiar because I was the victim, it would not be a stretch to say he became a feminist as an adult.
I'm just not wiling label an adult as evil based on a single bad act in his youth.
It may well not be an isolated incident - although I haven't heard any suggestion there are others yet. If it isn't - and especially if they continued through adult-hood (a la Trump), that is a very different question. And his attitude now that a specific victim has come forward with details of a specic incident will speak volumes from my perspective. If he does not actively squash efforts to smear his accuser, he's toast on this matter as far as I'm concerned.
Tavarious Jackson
(1,595 posts)Will Kavanaugh take one?
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)john657
(1,058 posts)a polygraph given by a former FBI agent.
Tavarious Jackson
(1,595 posts)Still good enough for me
Gothmog
(145,278 posts)Guilded Lilly
(5,591 posts)#1: for women
#2: for Judges
#3: for Republican men
#4: for Republican men who are Judges and are accused by women of sexual abuse/violence.
doncha know.
She is credible.
She is a respected professional.
She has the backing of other professionals who have helped her with the resulting trauma.
No matter.
See number 4 above.
dchill
(38,497 posts)Guilded Lilly
(5,591 posts)Response to Kingofalldems (Original post)
Post removed
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)She was honoring the victims initial wishes.
FBaggins
(26,742 posts)Ford's wishes did not include publicly releasing her allegations (which almost necessarily destroyed her anonymity - and did in this case).
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)I'm on my phone instead of my PC, otherwise I'd explain it at length. For now, I refer you to links provided in this thread.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211140691
LostinRed
(840 posts)To vote against him look for the article on the huffington post. That is what I was referring to.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)She respected the womans wishes.
ooky
(8,923 posts)FBaggins
(26,742 posts)It's highly unlikely that an abuser only did something like this once.
Ilsa
(61,695 posts)will not have the credentials this woman has, and because of that, will be afraid to come forward. Without money or status or power, they may feel like this is a battle they don't want.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,112 posts)Bradshaw3
(7,522 posts)Kav's reaction to the dad of the Florida shooting victim said a lot about who the person behind that good guy act is. Now it's confirmed.
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)The poor woman will be raked over the coals, like Anita Hill was. Still, she's doing her civic duty, as she regards it. She's very brave. And so is her husband, who has also spoken out.
What he did is not normal for male teens. The male teen, even drunk, could get pushy, in my experience. Could grow a lot of hands. Could get angry, even. But pinning a 15 year old down while laughing like a maniac, and then covering her mouth so she can't scream...that's not normal.
triron
(22,006 posts)Demovictory9
(32,456 posts)DesertRat
(27,995 posts)It takes a lot of courage to tackle things in therapy, but to come forward publicly and share her own story in her own words, against someone with immense resources, is extremely brave.
This really is an excellent, detailed article.
DangerousRhythm
(2,916 posts)I had a similar incident happen to me as a nearly 13 year old by a classmate at my then best friend's house. We were all students at a local Catholic school. Basically, and I can count the number of people I've even told this on one hand, my best friend's younger brother held my arms behind my back while her cousin (in my grade and classes - a LOT of girls in my class had crushes on him, btw) tried to take my clothes off and was groping me while I screamed my head off. I screamed so loudly and so much as I struggled to break free that when I got home, I realized my throat was bleeding. I was spitting blood into my sink. I'd like to add that my then best friend didn't even bother to help me, either. I'm sure she heard me screaming. We drifted apart over that summer as we entered high school together.
Today, he's regarded as a hero and is actually a small time member of that area's Republican party, and I'm watching him from afar because THIS situation is my fear. He's married now, with kids.
He actually had the balls to friend me on Facebook years ago, and I was hoping for some kind of apology from him but he never even said a word to me and it seemed like he was a "girl collector" if you know what I mean (guys who friend request very attractive women they don't even know because they're creepers), and of course they all had big boobs. That was his focus on me too, ugh. I deleted him when I realized no apology would be coming.
As for proof, the only proof I have of it happening at the time is that he spread some kind of rumor about me after that happened, among our class, and I'm not even sure what he said exactly, but when we got our yearbooks that year, there was a section where my name was mentioned in a veiled "joke" about me "liking volleyball". No, I was never into sports, being an artsy kid, and it was entirely a way to mock me and humiliate me publicly for my boobs being groped by him, while slipping under the radar of teachers... in print for a book I had to pay for, no less. The cruelty made me nauseous then and today. I still have the yearbook, AND I just remembered I also have personal photos from around the time of the incident of the group of us hanging out in that neighborhood. I hope I'm never put in a situation like this poor woman where I'm pushed into using them. I don't relish the idea of throwing myself out there to the wolves and I'm sure his wife probably has no idea he's like this.
It's fucking disgusting and this situation is dredging up all those old feelings again.
UTUSN
(70,696 posts)Kingofalldems
(38,458 posts)as soon as we get the majority.