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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMy son, (a prosecutor in Brooklyn) has this to say about Dr. Ford and Kavanaugh on Facebook today..
In my experience, liars tend not to invite the FBI to investigate their claims.
I'm waiting to hear all the evidence before making up my mind. At this point all I care about is that the process is fair. In our system, both the accused and the accuser are entitled to fair process.
But on the face of it there are several reasons Prof. Ford's story appears credible:
1. She places Kavanagh's friend, Mark Judge, at the scene. Why would she make a witness out of someone who'd be expected to testify favorably for the accused?
2. She says she told her therapist about the assault in 2012. He agrees that the story she told him was basically the same, and he has notes. They don't include Kavanagh's name, but if it was a frame job, wouldn't they?
3. Through work I've gotten to know a few people who falsely accused others of crimes. People who do this tend to be reckless and live very troubled, unstable lives. Ford is a professional, and it doesn't make sense that she'd risk everything she's worked for all her life by lying just to block Kavanagh's appointment.
4. If she was lying she wouldn't demand that the FBI investigate her claims. Instead, she would run to the hearing on Monday so she could make her claims without the Senate Republicans having any idea of what questions they should be asking her.
5. Her story is entirely plausible. These kinds of assault happen all the time, and they happened even more frequently 35 years ago. It's not like she's claiming she was abducted by aliens.
6. If this is a frame, the scenario of how it came about is completely implausible: the Democrats recruited a credible, professional woman who knew Kavanagh in high school, to slander him just to keep him off the court. Even though Trump still gets to pick his replacement. Fortunately for the evil Dems, she just happened to tell the story to her therapist 5 years earlier, and he has notes to prove it. Unless you think he's in on it, too, and the notes were fabricated. Part of this conspiracy is that when the senate invites her to testify, she *refuses* until the FBI investigates the veracity of her claims. Sorry--the conspiracy theory here is ludicrous.
7. She passed a polygraph.
In 1991, the Bush White House asked the FBI to investigate Anita Hill's claims, which they did for almost two weeks before the hearing. That's how it works. You don't have the trial first and the investigation second. And if they do have the hearing, they should follow Anita Hill's advice and the questions should be asked by neutral professionals, not the senators who have no idea how to properly examine witnesses. Take the partisanship out of it, so the public can have more confidence in the outcome.
If the Republicans were smart they'd reject Kavanagh right now and persuade the president to nominate someone else from the short list: Judge Joan Larsen from the Sixth Circuit. In one fell swoop it would get them out of this Kavanagh mess and go a long way towards mending fences with women voters.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)Really the clincher.
calimary
(81,322 posts)All the points are good. Especially when taken together. All the boxes are checked here.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)Delphinus
(11,831 posts)Agree with all.
DownriverDem
(6,229 posts)Last edited Thu Sep 20, 2018, 08:52 AM - Edit history (1)
a woman to replace kavanaugh would do nothing for me. I'll still lose my rights. A repub woman is a traitor to me. Otherwise I agree with the rest.
volstork
(5,402 posts)but the optics would be great for them: "Oh, look how 'progressive' we are-- we nominated a little woman!"
Leghorn21
(13,524 posts)My son, the prosecutor!!!
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)MaryMagdaline
(6,855 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)malaise
(269,063 posts)Hug that smart child
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)MontanaMama
(23,322 posts)that your son is to be admired. He must have had quite a mama!
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)was terrified (he was 3 years old at the time IIRC) that the war would go on till he was eligible for the draft, then still in effect.Then came the amnesty for deserters, then abortion rights. And he was a big brother to his two sisters. I think having sisters can be a wonderful thing for a boy growing up.
dlk
(11,569 posts)Despite Republican efforts to steamroll past and avoid it.
too interested in due process in this situation. Due process isn't real popular now on several fronts. Too technical. No emotional satisfaction when some probably-guilty person goes free because of it. No ability to see the long view - a due processless world.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)... gone to the FBI himself !!!
Why if this is such BS why hasn't Kavanaugh gone to FBI and just put stuff on the table !?
Cause its illegal to lie to the FBI !!
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)drray23
(7,634 posts)I heard it several times already this evening on CNN and MSNBC by various guests.
RVN VET71
(2,692 posts)But that, alas, isn't going to move the Republican goons to change their votes. Kavanaugh appears to be a craven, lying, weak man of dismal character. A perfect person for the GOP.
Just a thought: but wouldn't it have been fascinating if, instead of lying so righteously about the charge of attempted rape, he had just admitted it and apologized and offered to withdraw his name. It wouldn't happen, of course. Not in this world. Not with the corrupt nematodes in the GOP overseeing things. But what a story it would have been: a SCOTUS nominee ruefully admitting to a sin he'd committed so very long ago, a sin so ugly that he'd, frankly, and shamefully, put it out of his mind until this poor woman came forward. It happened, said the judge. Maybe not exactly as she described it, but no question I tried to ignore her efforts to repulse my advance and she managed to leave [I'm toning down the action here, but it would still work] in tears. I never spoke to her again. I am so sorry for what I've done. In all candor, I will withdraw my nomination [crying now, but in a manly way] if you wish."
Ahh, what a fantasy -- but had "Judge" K taken that approach, what a different world we'd be living in now.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)cannabis_flower
(3,764 posts)they have not spine. They think Trump is going to have a tantrum if they tell him no and they are probably right.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)death threats, family in hiding and then think that their family is next if they go against Trump.
forgotmylogin
(7,530 posts)What I learned reading hundreds of false rape accusations.
By Sandra Newman Sep 18, 2018
https://www.vox.com/first-person/2018/9/18/17874504/kavanaugh-assault-allegation-christine-blasey-ford
FakeNoose
(32,645 posts)Thanks CTyankee for this great post!
Cha
(297,323 posts)druidity33
(6,446 posts)Colombo123
(19 posts)Shame
GP6971
(31,168 posts)Welcome to DU!
rzemanfl
(29,565 posts)apkhgp
(1,068 posts)This is advice that no right minded person could say as not helpful to the situation. If the Senators on the confirmation committee were they would follow these actions outlined in this post. When have you ever seen a smart Repukelican?
panader0
(25,816 posts)And you should be.
spooky3
(34,460 posts)as a female voter, I can assure your son that NO ONE on the Federalist list would be acceptable to me (re: his final comment on a different nominee). So maybe your son is right about some Republican voters who are on the fence, but certainly not about women voters generally.
DesertRat
(27,995 posts)librechik
(30,674 posts)They are nothing but cowards and bullies who decided to do something no matter what stood in the way. Not Democrats or democrats. Rape- ublicans only. A brotherhood of Russia- infiltrated felons.
gademocrat7
(10,660 posts)Kudos, CTyankees son.
Upthevibe
(8,053 posts)Thank you sooooooooooooo much for posting....
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)Her lawyer knows that the FBI can't investigate because they legally can't because 1) it isn't a federal law and 2) didn't happen on a federal reservation. If she files a criminal complaint with Montgomery County, Maryland she would have more credibility.
Haggis for Breakfast
(6,831 posts)Part of the FBI's job is to do background checks and vet people. They ABSOLUTELY can do this. But they need presidential request and Stumpy Trumpy isn't going to request it.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)Six of them. None of this came up during said background checks. Why? When the USAF investigated me for my TS/SCI, they knocked on a lot of doors of people who might have known me. If I had something like that, I'm sure someone would know.
The FBI said no twice. This should be a criminal investigation by MC. Even then, investigate what? No evidence, no witnesses, just someplace in that county during that year. I'm a big believer in Blackstone.
RobinA
(9,894 posts)*
DallasNE
(7,403 posts)If Kavanaugh has nothing to hide, why wouldn't he call for an FB1 investigation to clear his good name. Right now he is acting guilty - perhaps he is not acting.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)he knows that the FBI already said no because they lack jurisdiction in a non-federal criminal case. Ford should file a criminal complaint with Montgomery County, Maryland.
You can't prove a negative. Unlike France, we have the presumption of innocence until proven guilty (France is presumed guilty until proven innocent). That applies to everyone, even people you don't like. He doesn't, nor should he have to, do shit. The burden of proof is on the accuser, as it should be.
DallasNE
(7,403 posts)The FBI investigated Anita Hill with no expectation of criminal charges. They are the investigative arm of the federal government, hence the "I" in "FBI".
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)and it was alleged to have taken place in a federal building, making it their jurisdiction. Also, Hill's allegation wasn't nearly four decades old.
DallasNE
(7,403 posts)Better yet, go back to Breitbart.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)and those are the objective facts, has nothing to do with Breitbart. I believe or disbelieve based on evidence and reason, not because some asshole with a D or R says so.
DallasNE
(7,403 posts)Every thing you have said reflects a "R" talking point and is irreverent to the points raised.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)and I don't give a rat's ass. The objective truth is the objective truth.
Straight up:
If he did it, he should come clean and turn himself over to the local authorities in Maryland (Maryland doesn't have a statute of limitations on sexual assault), and the feds can charge him and Mr. Judge with making a false statement to the Judiciary Committee, which is a felony.
If he is innocent, he should file a defamation suit against Ms. Ford. I would.
Since when was standing up for liberal and Enlightenment values like due process, and presumption of innocence right wing?
DallasNE
(7,403 posts)You keep coming back to this being a law enforcement matter. It never was. We are talking about reopening a background check in light of new information. What is so hard to understand about that.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)What would be gained. Yes, it is a law enforcement matter. A crime has been alleged. A serious crime that even the allegation can destroy someone's life, even if the allegation is proven false. There should be no suspension of due process. Presumption of innocence and the Constitutional right to confront your accuser in the open should remain, no exceptions.
I'm not dense.
DallasNE
(7,403 posts)A central feature of that is a background check and the FBI has already performed one. New, important information has surfaced that goes to fitness to serve. The FBI needs to reopen the background check like the did with Clinton's email. Wray should stop dragging his feet and do his job. Obviously he is afraid of Trump
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)When DIS and AFOSI investigated me for a TS/SCI, they talked to my neighbors in California and Kansas. My former co workers in Korea and California. They even knew the account number of the passbook account I had as a kid. I'm sure the FBI did a much more extensive investigation for judges and working in the White House.
Clinton's email was a criminal investigation because NYPD found something related on Anthony Weiner's laptop.
Ford accused him of criminal act.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"we have the presumption of innocence until proven guilty..."
Luckily, no one here is arguing otherwise.
However, burdens of proof are mechanism of the court system, not a confirmation hearing.
There are some very good basic civics text books available to assist (Civics in Practice is a good starter, and available at Blountstown Middle School in Tallahassee,. FL).
RobinA
(9,894 posts)ring up the FBI and ask them to come investigate. Kavanaugh outside of work hours is a private citizen.
DallasNE
(7,403 posts)The FBI has already conducted a background check. They now have new information and should reopen the file liked they did with the Clinton emails. It is not like they are being asked to do anything extraordinary.
usaf-vet
(6,189 posts)My guess would be that NO ONE ELSE has taken the stand Kavanaugh has take regarding presidential rights / privileges.
Kavanaugh has made it clear even to a novice that he WOULD rule in Trumps favor in any case stemming from the Mueller investigation.
Trump as always is trying to buy his get out of jail card by appointing Kavanaugh.
I doubt Trump gives one serious thought to woman's rights.
It is as always what is important to him. Trump first always.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)until the blue wave in November. This is all it is.
geardaddy
(24,931 posts)gejohnston
(17,502 posts)what I want. The ends don't justify the means. I'm priggish in that way.
raging moderate
(4,306 posts)Kavanaugh is their crony. And they owe him favors. Twisted Republicon ethics.
It's like antimatter: the opposite of normal ethics.
Honor among thieves. Or something like that.
And they claimed they wanted to drain the swamp.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,011 posts)That contrast speaks volumes when seen in the light of the first paragraph of the OP.
RainCaster
(10,884 posts)Which could be their downfall
Stuart G
(38,436 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Nitram
(22,822 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)That said, if she doesn't testify on Monday, Kavanugh will be confirmed on Wednesday. That's the sad fact.
lark
(23,111 posts)Their plan as signalled by Lyndsey Graham is to get Kavanaugh on SCOTUS before mid-terms so Sessions cann be fired immediately after then and Kavanaugh will be in place to protect drumpf and say he can do anything, even comit treason, and nothing can be done. Without Kavanaugh, can they find someone else so venal, so corrupted by the lust for power, that they would protect this treasonous, criminal so-called president? They don't think so, so want Kav personally because he's already sold his soul to drumpf and Russia, if he ever had one.
bdamomma
(63,877 posts)The filthy repigs will be sealing their fate if they put this unqualified man on the Supreme Court, it's a life time appointment and has wicked consequences for millions of Americans if he gets on.
I hate that commercial I saw last night portraying him as a qualified nominee, and since when do they put commercials on TV to promote a Supreme Court Justice??? Does anyone recall that being done in the past?
ecstatic
(32,712 posts)mercuryblues
(14,532 posts)The Dems would have to have been looking for a woman to make these claims. It stands to reason that other woman would have been approached and asked to do this. The more people involved in a conspiracy the likelihood of someone talking becomes greater. Even more so when the claims have been made public. No - hey, that sounds like the story someone approached me with and tried to get me to participate in. I should report this.
Owens
(197 posts)They don't care about lying to the FBI, why? Because trump has been going around tweeting that the DOJ and FBI are corrupt and not to believe anything they say. His followers swallow that right up.
LAS14
(13,783 posts)Gothmog
(145,321 posts)CTyankee
(63,912 posts)And, if you read my post on 9/11, a first responder.
What he is doing in Brooklyn is working on freeing people who were unfairly sentenced to overlong sentences in prison because of a former overzealous DA. He considers this his life's work. He's my hero.