General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsJust watched the Beto-Servile Dog (Cruz) debate in Texas
Last edited Fri Sep 21, 2018, 08:53 PM - Edit history (1)
Observations:
- Cruz is a strong debater. I think he was on the debate team at Princeton.
- He landed some punches early in the debate but I thought Beto was the bigger statesman over the last 30 minutes (it was just one hour)
- Betos passion shined tonight and he speaks in a way that is disarming and genuine. He would make a helluva hostage negotiator.
- At the end both were asked to say something they admired about the other. Beto was great with the question while Cruz turned it into an opportunity to call him a socialist, eliciting some murmurs in what was a relatively tame crowd. At the end Beto got in a great shot: True to form. he said when Cruz was finished.
After it was over I donated to Beto even though I dont live in Texas. I hope many did the same. Because Cruz is Trumps servile dog. And an asshole.
dalton99a
(81,599 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,470 posts)Given the fact Cruz said he wouldnt be Drumpfs Seville dog at the end of their bitter primary, I thought it appropriate.
nolabear
(41,991 posts)Cruzs gotcha style and smug self satisfaction is grotesque. Beto is clearly a Democrat-prepared, factual, unapologetic about trying to reach solutions while Cruz is hell bent on smearing and dividing. Beto isnt quite perfectly polished and the go-to I spoke with a mother recently whose child... scenarios can sound forced if too many are used. But damn I like him and lots of people in the crowd did too.
Oh, and I wanted to strangle Cruz when he made noises while Beto was speaking.
BannonsLiver
(16,470 posts)Particularly over the last half hour.
lindysalsagal
(20,733 posts)VOX
(22,976 posts)Appreciate your thoughts on this. I'm going find the debate on YouTube.
Personal bonus point: Beto is from my dad's hometown, El Paso.
NewJeffCT
(56,829 posts)or does Cruz look several years older than his 47 years old?
BannonsLiver
(16,470 posts)Ted has always reminded me of Nixon.
bucolic_frolic
(43,311 posts)but Beto reminds me of Jimmy Stewart, very plain spoken, aw-shucks, open demeanor
NewJeffCT
(56,829 posts)I don't recall him looking that much older - it's like he's aged 10 years in the past 2.
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)A baby face gone terribly wrong.
cstanleytech
(26,319 posts)licking Trumps feet.
peekaloo
(22,977 posts)Trump rubbing Cruz's nose in the doo doo he left on the rug.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)Supposed to, anyway. Round table interview discussion still going on regarding another topic. I hope they didn't reschedule this
SamKnause
(13,110 posts)I just watched it.
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)Rizen
(724 posts)It would be amazing if Beto would win in Texas, of all places. We need a blue wave.
kag
(4,079 posts)People just don't like Cruz, and with good reason. Aside from his policies he's just so whiny and unctuous.
Of course, the above only holds if the elections are fair, and I give it about 50-50 this year.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Day...maybe a 2 mile radius and counted 41 Beto lawn signs
This is a very non-political place. And always votes republican. However Cruz has the fear machine chugging along big time with lies.
trc
(823 posts)And have seen a few Beto signs and stickers around town. But out today picking up a few things I saw many many more, including yard signs and poster sized signs stapled to fences. It was very nice to see. Keep in mind that those signs are bought by the person displaying them, that is a big part of Beto's funding. I bought 4 bumper stickers and have donated to his campaign in cash. Please, all who can, donate a bit to this campaign, lets all fund Cruz's retirement party and swing the Senate away from the crazy.
stuffmatters
(2,574 posts)As the first of three debates, it was a good introduction for Beto to Cruz strategy & the twisted facts he's going to rely upon. Clearly Cruz' psych approach is to treat Beto's optimism as immature & hippieish,and scoff off his political positions as reckless and irresponsible.
Pretty much the only approach Ted can take because personality wise Cruz is so unlikable and politically he's voted 0% for
everyone but his RW donor class.
Beto hopefully will put many,many more Ted is Obnoxious Truths (like Ted voted against the 911 First Responders, Dallas News 2/16)) into his ready quiver for the next two debates. Beto also has the perfect podium to showcase the utter fiscal lunacy of pretty much all of the Trump-Ted Agenda...from incarcerating & deporting DACAns to the Republican Tax Scam.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)To most all TX counties calling that no big deal photo ops.
catrose
(5,073 posts)What great photo ops those are, unlike speaking in Tuna County, Tx, population 279. (Invented county)
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Cruz would have to have had a way to turn Beto's travels into something bad before he got there
True Blue American
(17,989 posts)Over like the proverbial lump in a punch bowl.
Smart people would see how hard that is to do.
On another note the wife of a man running for State Senator here knocked on my door,handed me his Literature. I asked what party he was from. She said Democrat. I had been watching his ads, saw all the signs here. A very Republican area. None on my short street. I emailed for a sign last night.
Having lived here many years, most people know me, as I worked the Polls for several years. That is a great way to get to know your neighbors.
Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)Tonight on CSPAN. Not expected to be competitive but wow were the sparks flying. There is certainly no reluctance to use the word lie or liar this year. I suspect we'll see it in one debate after another.
Pritzker did fine but I thought the most surprising and effective answer was by the Libertarian candidate regarding the Colin Kaepernick situation. Any Democrat could repeat those words and do great.
Cha
(297,720 posts)Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)Trading in the 90% range now on betting markets. Considered most likely governorship to change hands in our direction.
Not much polling recently. Older polls had Pritzker ahead in low double digits, like 10-12
Cha
(297,720 posts)Flash953
(85 posts)Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)No harm in bumping it up further. Poll is at bottom of article:
https://heavy.com/news/2018/09/who-won-first-cruz-vs-beto-debate/
oasis
(49,410 posts)Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)The stated rules and format mean nothing. Just keep talking and force the moderator to cut you off, which they won't. The format tonight called for response, rebuttal and then a final remark from the person who originally got the question. Beto abided by that format. But Cruz time and again jumped in for a lengthy fourth reply, one that wasn't supposed to happen. So he ended up having the last word far more often than not, when it was intended to be flat even.
Beto could have called him on it or realized what was happening and done the same thing himself, but he was overly respectful.
I thought Beto was actually strongest at the beginning. His first few answers were masterful, IMO. If I had any criticism it was that he used too many references to his own experiences in the state, who he met, and what their situation is. Dozens of times. While that comes across as compassionate and thoughtful, it wastes time that could be used toward a big picture point.
Hillary, likewise, used too many door to door anecdotes in the 2016 debates with Trump.
Cruz, like most Republicans, hammers the simple to remember big picture point every time.
High caliber debate, beyond what I gathered from reading online reviews
Response to Awsi Dooger (Reply #24)
Lotusflower70 This message was self-deleted by its author.
True Blue American
(17,989 posts)Meeting people face to face, then hearing about it in a debate is very important to people.
That is an example of what President Obama did. Feet on the ground. Your wife, children, volunteers that have enough faith in you to get the boots, or sneakers now, out there.
Especially this year when people are so disheartened.
Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)Beto offered too many of them, especially during the midsection of the debate when Cruz was cheating the format and finishing with the closing word every time.
Besides, those anecdotes don't score as well as the candidates think they do. I hosted debate watching parties in Las Vegas for a decade. People in my living room would look away or even go to the bathroom when those anecdotes were being abused. After the debate when we would discuss the most important and pivotal moments during the debate, I'm not sure I remember one time when that type of comment earned raves. Cruz was hammering the type of stuff that people care about, even if he was lying or misleading every time.
On CNN when they show the tracking wavelength at bottom of screen during debates, to display how their viewer panel is reacting, the anecdotal moments are invariably a flat line.
The practice is simply over done. This British debate analysis column describes it very well:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/11/how-to-argue-anecdotal-evidence
"Are such stories a good form of argument? They seem to be popular with political speech writers and advertising copywriters who often use them to lend colour and "human interest" to a speech. But as the leaders' debate demonstrated, they can also sound such a false note that they distract from the claims you want to advance. To work well, stories must be in harmony with, and contributing to, your overall argument."
<snip>
"Use your anecdotes sparingly
Even good witnesses should be used sparingly and carefully. Excessive and obvious reliance on them will make it seem as if you can't think for yourself. And it can easily seem pretentious. Someone trying to persuade you simply by dropping names of powerful people they have met or of authors they have read is, to put it mildly, annoying."
True Blue American
(17,989 posts)Do not lose sight of the people Beto met face to face, talked with personally,answered questions. Even went on his Jogging exercise with him. Face to face is much more personal than a debate on TV. It leaves a lasting impression on hundreds of voters.
You can not duplicate that. It is clear Beto has no handlers. And that seems to be working this year. He is energetic, full of enthusiasm,ideas.
Lotusflower70
(3,077 posts)Beto is so intelligent and compassionate. I love how he kept his composure when he was being baited by Cruz. He is hope and action. He wants to move Texas forward.
I can't stand Cruz. He kept distracting and deflecting. And Cruz kept mentioning Hillary Clinton. The strategy was clear. He wants to keep the status quo or to go backwards.
Gothmog
(145,619 posts)The Liberal Lion
(1,414 posts)until he got whopped up on by trump, who is himself a terrible debater and a total moron when it comes to political issues.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)The message can be as simple as this:
Either my Republican opponent is stunningly ignorant or he wishes to exploit the ignorance of others. Today's GOP is no more the party of Lincoln (or the party of anti-slavery whigs who started the party) than today's Democratic Party is the party of pre-1964 Strom Thurmond.
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)The response should be, EVERY TIME, that yes, but the "Dixiecrats" all became Republicans because of the Civil Rights Act. LBJ said after he signed the Act that "We have lost the South for a generation." He was wrong. It's been more than a generation.
But if we VOTE maybe we can start to turn that around. Do it, Texas.
True Blue American
(17,989 posts)joshcryer
(62,276 posts)But he's good at it.
I cringed so much during that debate because Cruz really does punch hard as hell and the Texas crowd ate it the fuck up.
Beto is too good for Texas. I hope they do the right thing.
ProfessorPlum
(11,277 posts)hat tip to TYT