Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Texin

(2,596 posts)
Sun Sep 30, 2018, 01:57 PM Sep 2018

Can someone enlighten me more about the upcoming "Gamble" case before the SCOTUS?

I forget the other party in this decision coming up for consideration in October, which seems to be why the rethugs are so hellbent to cram Kavanaugh onto the bench. I know it deals essentially with the double jeopardy clause, but I'm unclear exactly how it would affect cases brought by the various state AGs. The argument seems to be that it would eliminate a possible state AG from pursing a criminal charge for a state crime that a Federal court had prosecuted previously. If Mueller turned findings of criminal wrongdoing to the particular states in which those activities took place and he did not bring Federal cases forward, would that be exempt from the ruling by the SCOTUS?

5 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Can someone enlighten me more about the upcoming "Gamble" case before the SCOTUS? (Original Post) Texin Sep 2018 OP
Gamble only deals with double jeopardy for dual prosecutions of same crime. Nevilledog Sep 2018 #1
See... PoliticAverse Sep 2018 #2
I'm no lawyer but in simple terms the SC could ru!e in a way to strike the separate sovereigns Anon-C Sep 2018 #3
The "question presented" is Whether the Court should overrule the "separate sovereigns" exception onenote Sep 2018 #4
Okay, thanks for the background and fleshing this out. Texin Sep 2018 #5

Nevilledog

(51,137 posts)
1. Gamble only deals with double jeopardy for dual prosecutions of same crime.
Sun Sep 30, 2018, 02:02 PM
Sep 2018

States will still have every right to prosecute state crimes so long as they are not based on exact same elements as a federal conviction.

PoliticAverse

(26,366 posts)
2. See...
Sun Sep 30, 2018, 02:03 PM
Sep 2018
https://www.theusconstitution.org/litigation/gamble-v-united-states/

> which seems to be why the rethugs are so hellbent to cram Kavanaugh onto the bench.

Not really. They want him on the bench because he'll be the potential 5th vote in 5-4 decisions in many cases and the new court term starts now.

The Gamble issue is overblown, won't affect that much, and liberals like Ruth Bader Ginsberg are on the side
of ending the "separate sovereign" double jeopardy exception.

> If Mueller turned findings of criminal wrongdoing to the particular states in which those activities and he did not bring Federal cases forward, would that be exempt from the ruling?

Yes. It only would apply in cases of the identical crime tried already by the the federal government or a state. Note that a crime like state income tax evasion is a different crime than federal income tax evasion.


Anon-C

(3,430 posts)
3. I'm no lawyer but in simple terms the SC could ru!e in a way to strike the separate sovereigns
Sun Sep 30, 2018, 02:11 PM
Sep 2018

...exception to the double jeopardy clause. This exception allows states (separate sovereigns) to prosecute crimes at the state level that may be pardoned at the federal level...in essence making the Presidential pardon an absolute "get out of jail free card".

A President will then be able to encourage individuals to break the law with the promise of a pardon.

onenote

(42,715 posts)
4. The "question presented" is Whether the Court should overrule the "separate sovereigns" exception
Sun Sep 30, 2018, 02:17 PM
Sep 2018

to the double jeopardy clause.

The specific facts of the case are that in 2008, Terance Gamble was convicted of second-degree robbery in Mobile County, Alabama, resulting in his being barred under federal and state law from possessing a firearm in the future.

More than seven years later, Gamble was driving in Mobile when a police officer pulled him over for a faulty tail light. Smelling marijuana coming from Gamble’s car, the officer searched the vehicle and discovered two baggies of marijuana, a digital scale, and a 9mm handgun.

The state of Alabama prosecuted Gamble for possessing marijuana and for being a previously convicted felon in possession of a firearm. Gamble received a one-year sentence, which he finished serving on May 14, 2017.

While the Alabama prosecution was ongoing, the federal government charged Gamble for the same offense under federal law: being a felon in possession of a firearm. In other words, the federal government based its prosecution on the same incident on November 29, 2015 that gave rise to his state court conviction. Gamble thereupon was convicted and sentenced to nearly four years in prison -- meaning that he now faced the prospect of being imprisoned for around three more years after he had served his one year state conviction sentence.

Because this is a clear cut case of the same facts being the basis of two separate prosecutions for the same offense, the resolution of the case will not necessarily resolve is the more difficult question of when two prosecutions are considered to arise from the same facts and be based on identically (or nearly identically) defined offenses.

Finally, as has been pointed out several times on other threads, the impetus for the SCOTUS to take this case came from Justice Ginsburg who, together with Justice Thomas, has suggested that the time has come to re-examine the separate (or dual) sovereigns exception to the double jeopardy clause.

Texin

(2,596 posts)
5. Okay, thanks for the background and fleshing this out.
Sun Sep 30, 2018, 05:41 PM
Sep 2018

I've just been hearing a lot of speculation (primarily on radio - but I only really listen to NPR now) about this impending ruling. What effect might it have on any of the ongoing investigations by Mueller if any?

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Can someone enlighten me ...