General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhatever the FBI finds, Kavanaugh will NOT be confirmed for SCOTUS
Last edited Mon Oct 1, 2018, 01:56 PM - Edit history (1)
I got into Yale Law School. Thats the number one law school in the country. I had no connections there. I got there by busting my tail in college. Kavanaugh under Oath to the Senate.Everett Edward Kavanaugh, Bretts grandfather, attended Yale as an undergraduate student. Everetts Name appears Yales 1928 year book. Brett Kavanaugh was a Yale legacy Student.
https://www.newsweek.com/kavanaugh-said-he-had-no-connections-yale-he-was-legacy-student-1145286
Thats it. Theres no way out. No wriggle room. However faulty Kavanaugh recollection of events 30+ years ago may be theres no doubt at all he would be aware of his familys connection with Yale. Its as open and shut as you can get Lying under Oath.
Flake was asked on 60 minutes If Judge Kavanaugh is shown to have lied to the committee, (his) nominations over? Oh yes, Flake responded.
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5bb1e515e4b0343b3dc1c83d
There may be no way out for Kavanaugh, but Kavs pathetic little lie provides a very welcome out for Flake and his flakettes, the GOP, Trump and conservative jurists. The last thing they want is to have a protracted discussion about a how an apparatchik with a drinking problem and a checkered past came to be nominated for the highest court in the land.
Whatever the FBIs findings Flake et al will try to zero in on Kavs pathetic little lie, with the tacit support of the Republican leadership, conservative jurists, and Id wager the Chief Justice. Kavanaugh testimony backfired Big Time. He is figure of fun, of ridicule, at least for those women who dont recognise the angry abusive men who have traumatised them and their friends.
Kavanaugh was the guy who was supposed to cement a conservative majority on SCOTUS. He is compromised. Trump will dump him hes loyal to no one. I expect we will here something like Judge Kavanaugh mad a stupid mistake. Its a tragedy. Hes a brilliant man, but Im deferring to the Senate
End of Story.
EDIT: It may be that Kavaughs statement he had no connection to Yale Law School is not clear cut perjury. If so I apologise for posting a dead end . Time is too short for sloppy mistakes. Sorry.
Siwsan
(26,267 posts)But we are not existing under normal circumstances. The GOP will do what they want, regardless of the rules or even the laws.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Its hard to back out of that.
Siwsan
(26,267 posts)He, Collins, etc, will likely come up with some rationalization of their vote for him.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)people can understand. He told obvious whopper after whopper, after all, but they're waiting for the investigation to reveal a lie or...
An awful lot of people, on both sides, think being nominated confers some kind of right to the seat, that it's effectively Kavanaugh's already.
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)He can argue that his grandfather wasn't a factor in his case and there is no documentation to say otherwise.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)I don't even think Democratic Senators would push that one. Again, his biggest lies were trying to cover up what his yearbook page meant, disputing Dr. Ford's accusations, etc.
unitedwethrive
(1,997 posts)It is possible that part of the backroom discussions before they agreed to a limited FBI investigation was for him to publicly make statements saying that if the FBI found wrongdoing that he would vote against Kav. This calms the Democratic side and makes us thinking that at least someone on the other side is being fair minded. It also brings down the level of vitriol the repubs have to face this week.
With the limited scope of the FBI investigation, they will certainly come back saying that there is no way to definitively prove that an assault ever happened (and no mention of lying before the committee), and Flake will take the lead saying that he now feels comfortable voting for him.
Okay, I may be a "keg is half empty" kind of gal, but fool me once...
crazytown
(7,277 posts)on top rating TV, it will cost Flake dearly if he goes backs out. The law is clear. The facts are clear. He would be risking a lot to deny it.
Kablooie
(18,634 posts)For Republicans. Trump has made that the gold standard for them.
Sure they will say it's disqualifying but that's just another lie.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)I might agree.
unc70
(6,115 posts)Kavanaugh was still 17 when Maryland raised the drinking age to 21 on July 1, 1982. That just happens to be the date of the "skis" party in his calendar.
radical noodle
(8,003 posts)I think there's a good chance they'll send him through and confirm. Not because he's a good candidate but because they have the power to do so.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)compared to the monstrous sexual assault is the very reasons Republicans will go for it.
radical noodle
(8,003 posts)"Well, anyone would lie to the Senate about THAT."
onenote
(42,714 posts)FBaggins
(26,748 posts)That's actually incorrect. Yale Law School did give a slight bump for "legacy" students when they were connected to other law school graduates. Attending Yale as an undergraduate would not have provided his grandson with that bump.
IIRC - it works both ways. Being a legacy for YLS also does you no good for Yale undergrad.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)To them . I dont care how hard he worked his tail
FBaggins
(26,748 posts)Almost anyone would read his statement as a claim that he couldn't have been a falling-down drunk because such a student wouldn't have made it into YLS and he got in without help. You refute that by trying to claim that a grandfather graduating from Yale means that he was a legacy. I think that's wrong in at least two regards (Legacy almost always requires a graduate parent - not grandparent - and a Yale graduate wouldn't make him a YLS legacy anyway)... but it doesn't matter whether or not you agree with me...
... because all that matters is whether the swing votes on his confirmation agree with you.
There's zero chance of that happening.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)He can renounce it but it will cost him dearly.
FBaggins
(26,748 posts)Flake was clearly talking about if the FBI investigation showed that he was lying about not assaulting Ford.
You need to pay attention to the difference between saying something under oath that turns out not to be 100% true and "lying under oath".
For instance. Ford testified that she ran into Judge a few weeks after the assault at a local Safeway. We now know that Safeway wasn't in that shopping center until a few years later (it was an Albertsons). This was clearly a statement under oath that was not true... but it isn't "lying under oath". It's just a mistake.
maxsolomon
(33,345 posts)From your mouth to God's ears.
I don't have that level of optimism. 2016 beat it out of me permanently.
JCMach1
(27,559 posts)From the dirty deal to get Kennedy out, this is NOT normal...
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)But he'll likely be sitting on the court by this time next week.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)You can nominate something on Amazon.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)What does that mean? And by the way, this isn't a game and I hope every single person that voted for donnie, didn't vote or voted 3rd party gets what's coming to them.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)I should have put in a smilie to make it clearer. No this isnt a game, its deadly serious. The hallmark of fascism is debauching government institutions. Here we go again. Until Kavanaugh gave his testimony I thought he was an highly partisan, ideological conservative. W lobbied for this poisonous viper. Figures.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)This subject has me very hot headed. And I didn't want this turd on the court long before we found out he was a slovenly drunk and a likely sexual predator.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)berksdem
(595 posts)a bit naive. Wishful thinking that I hope would become true but I really don't see any of this disqualifying Blackout Brett or this swaying any vote on the GOP side.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Kavanaugh perjured himself is the most unabiguous way possible when he said he had no connections to Yale
berksdem
(595 posts)does not produce anything he will be the SC Justice.
That GOP could care less about his lies... they endorse it.
asiliveandbreathe
(8,203 posts)Kavanaugh was the guy who was supposed to cement a conservative majority on SCOTUS...
Kavanaugh was the guy who was supposed to cement a religious majority on SCOTUS.
Autumn
(45,105 posts)To them thats a bonus.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)There is no wiggle room.
Autumn
(45,105 posts)in the hearings when they seated him on the district court.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)and not political. If they want to dump Kavaugh its a piece of Cake. If they dont, it will be a disaster for SCOTUSs reputation. I dont really see that happening. Yes, I could be wrong, but this is about a credible 5-4 conservative majority, not a nominee with personal issues.
unitedwethrive
(1,997 posts)We are being played.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Its on the public record.
people
(625 posts)The chances of Flake or Collins voting against Kavanaugh are Zero. They both support the policies of the right, they both are republicans. Murkowski has spoken less, but even if a miracle happened and she voted against Kavanaugh she's not enough to stop this. Unless the FBI investigation interviewed enough witnesses who all but conclusively showed he was lying he will be on the Supreme Court. The FBI is not going to do that. It's a sham investigation and Flake is trying to appear reasonable to both sides in case he decides to run for office in a few years.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)What more can I say. It will fup his future if he flips.
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)If he votes no on Kavanaugh, he loses the lobbying job hes sliding into next year.
You really arent thinking this through very well.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,112 posts)20 hours a week or more making sure he is NEVER prez if he flips.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Flake said if he was running for re-election he would confirm Kavanaugh. Hes a slimy viper.
NeverTrumpDemocrat
(48 posts)He did not claim he got into Yale College as an undergraduate without connections.
He instead said that he got into Yale Law School without connections. I think this is true.
There is a huge difference between Yale College (undergrad) and Yale Law School.
Yale is one of 7 Ivy League undergraduate colleges. Harvard is generally seen as #1, but Harvard is merely the first amongst equals. At least in terms of Harvard, Yale and Princeton, they're all about equal status and equally difficult to be accepted into.
Yale Law School has for as long as I can remember been head and shoulders above all other law schools as considered the real #1 without any real competitors for that title. It is MUCH harder to get into Yale Law than it is into Harvard Law, Columbia Law, etc.
Kavanaugh is an overgrown rapey frat boy with alcohol, cocaine and anger problems and has no place on the Supreme Court, but he did NOT mislead or lie on the particular point you raised.
To be admitted into Yale Law School, he almost certainly was, as he said, in Cross Campus Library at Yale studying hard to get excellent grades. I don't think his legacy status at Yale College would have helped to get into Yale Law School. Doesn't mean he didn't have time to get drunk and be abusive to women.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)In respected journals who disagree with you . Incontrovertible perjury etc.
NeverTrumpDemocrat
(48 posts)There was so much he did lie about --
not drinking on weekends (the July 1st gathering), not drinking to excess (the 100 Keg Club), vomiting because he has a "weak stomach", claiming the "Devils Triangle" is a type of drinking game, claiming "boofing" meant farting, etc. etc.
He never said he got into Yale College out of high school without connections. He said he got into Yale Law School without connections. That was a self-serving, irrelevant self-glorification in the context of the hearing, but there's no reason to think it was a lie.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)His Grandfather, give him any advantage whatsoever for the law school. His grandfather was an attorney and an alumni. He was in no sense a legacy student?
crazytown
(7,277 posts)could Kavanaugh have had?
NeverTrumpDemocrat
(48 posts)Especially if the relative had been a generous donor to the Law School as an alumnus.
NeverTrumpDemocrat
(48 posts)For one thing, Yale Law has its own separate endowment from Yale College, and of course would fundraise from its own alumni, not from Yale alumni in general.
I really don't think having a grandfather who went to Yale College as an undergrad would help you when applying to Yale Law School, and I don't think that's unusual -- in many universities, undergraduate colleges and graduate schools have completely separate cultures and traditions.
The for once honestish point Kav was trying to make was that he really was "busting his butt" at Yale College to have the academic record required for admittance into Yale Law School.
One other point: not only is Yale Law generally much more difficult to get into than Harvard Law or Columbia Law, it also has much smaller class sizes -- it seems that currently, Harvard Law has a total enrollment of 2,000, Columbia's is over 1,200 while Yale Law's is merely 600 -- that's total enrollment.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Doesnt appear that the Law School is too thrilled to be associated with Kavanaugh these days. His undignified testimony was embarrassing to this journeyman lawyer.
NeverTrumpDemocrat
(48 posts)be associated with Kav these days.
And I'm sure that Chief Justice Roberts would be less than thrilled to be associated with Kavanaugh. I hope he's making some behind the scenes phone calls to his fellow Republicans!
Kavanaugh's testimony was horrible. His angry drunk partisan demeanor made me think of Judge Freisler, the Nazi, or Judge Jeffreys of the Bloody Assizes.
Runningdawg
(4,517 posts)IF or when the Dems take back all 3 branches we can try for impeachment - that's our only hope. One more SCOUTS replacement for this administration and our gooses are all cooked. If the GOP hold in Nov, Thomas might just gift wrap it for them. Personally - I would like to see RBG throat punch him the first day.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)If he doesnt, the game isnt over. My 2c
FakeNoose
(32,641 posts)... especially not after his performance at the hearing last week. Who wants to work with a whining, sniveling a-hole who never takes responsibility for his own actions?
On the other hand, I don't believe Chief Justice Roberts will have the final say in this. I believe it's Cheeto's, who will do anything if he thinks it will save his own ass.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)The approach would be that Trump was absolutely correct in choosing Kavanaugh, but then he let him down. One thing I do know, Trump despises the sort of heavy drinking that killed his elder brother. An advisor night say, you couldnt have known Donald - Alcoholics take great pains to hide it.
My idea was, if the Yale connection was perjury, Trump could dismiss it as a stupid mistake and let him go.
FakeNoose
(32,641 posts)Make Cheeto think it's the "right thing" to do. Now he's the hero.
Duppers
(28,125 posts)lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Kavanaugh's real whoppers have to do with his theft of Democratic emails and exploiting them to jam previous judicial nominees through, when he was a staffer under Junior Bush.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)No connections to Yale isnt. You can make an issue of it without enraging the base. Thats what I thought.
matt819
(10,749 posts)I wasn't smart enough to get into the Ivy League, so I didn't even apply (this was the 1970s).
However. . . my wife was smart enough, and she applied and got in. She knew full well that her stepfather was a graduate - 1931 - and that at least one uncle was a graduate of the class of 1908. Turning to the present, my daughter also got in, and graduated in 2012.
Trust me, Ivy League attendees and graduates know whether their ancestors attended the same Ivy League schools. Maybe they were admitted as legacies, maybe they got in on their own records. But, again, trust me, they know that their ancestors attended.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Thats more important than what school you got into
matt819
(10,749 posts)Garrett78
(10,721 posts)crazytown
(7,277 posts)But if they want to dump him, they can hang their hats on little things.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)the majority in House or Senate.
The will control the SC for decades - HUGE! trump will have an advocate in the Court. Roe vs Wade gone - so another campaign promise kept. Worker's rights will be trampled.
The GOP will have won a campaign battle, albeit a somewhat small one. They can claim objectivity as they "allowed" an FBI investigation.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Do you think if CJ Roberts had a choice, hed want him on his court. Mitch has got all the time in the world if Trump decides to dump him. Yes its unlikely but not impossible. Kavanaugh is severely compromised.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)hinder him.
No way will they let this guy get away. He is too important to trump considering his positions on presidential powers and protections.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)But I have to admit, when I think it cant get any worse, it usually does.
Confirming Kavanaugh would be a political catastrophe for the GOP - a game changer like 1964. The blue wave would rise up into a Tsunami.
I do not want to see that freak on the Supreme Court. We will know soon enough I guess.
Sancho
(9,070 posts)We have a few more days to turn a few Senators against Kavirginaugh. Who knows - in Florida it's real close for governor and Nelson's senate seat.
There are a lot of pissed off people here, and I really hope they vote.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)But this is Trumps GOP. Lies? Sexual Aassault? Follow the leader? W lobbied for Kav. What sort of country thinks rape is second order issue?