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Scurrilous

(38,687 posts)
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 11:36 AM Oct 2018

Study suggests Russian trolls helped amplify the Last Jedi "backlash"

<snip>

"Nearly a year after its release, it’s accepted wisdom that Rian Johnson’s Star Wars movie, The Last Jedi, was a controversial entry in the franchise’s canon. But where does that “controversial” reputation come from? Mostly the online discourse—always an unruly hive of scum and villainy—which has seen the movie’s stars (specifically women and people of color) hounded off of social media, and Johnson’s own account frequently addressed by people supposedly pissed off by the movie’s politics.

But now, a new study out of USC suggests that some of that outrage may have been manufactured, at least in part by some of the same forces that sought to influence the 2016 elections, i.e., alleged bots and Russian internet trolls. Titled Weaponizing The Haters, and penned by researcher Morten Bay, the paper combs through tweets directed at Johnson in the wake of the movie’s release, in an effort to analyze the motivations and origins behind some of the online negativity around the film.

Bay’s study collected all of the tweets directed at Johnson between the film’s release in December 2017 and July 2018, and categorized the negative ones (themselves a meager 21 percent minority) into three groups: Politically-motivated tweeters pissed off the by film’s upholding of Star Wars’ left-leaning ideals, fans who legitimately hated it, and a more nebulous collection of bots, fake accounts, and alleged Russian trolls. Bay lays out a few generally accepted but loose criteria for identifying a Russia-based troll on Twitter—mostly involving choice of screen name, account habits, and a tendency toward posting at certain peek hours—but admitted that the study couldn’t definitively state which of the accounts were Russian in origin. (He’s more confident about the bots, which have more easily recognizable tells.)

Although Bay is careful not to draw any bold accusations or assumptions about the reasons the controversy around The Last Jedi was shaped, he does note that the tactics on display weren’t uncommon among Russian actors and extreme right-wing operatives during the 2016 electoral race. At the time, numerous pop culture and nerdy groups were infiltrated by politically motivated voices, who attempted to lure them in with shared connections and gripes (i.e., the “They ruined my childhood!” school of changing hearts and minds). Ultimately, his research found that “Overall, 50.9% of those tweeting negatively [about The Last Jedi] were likely politically motivated or not even human,” which hey, Morten, we could have told you that last part for free."

https://news.avclub.com/study-suggests-russian-trolls-helped-amplify-the-last-j-1829453731

44 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Study suggests Russian trolls helped amplify the Last Jedi "backlash" (Original Post) Scurrilous Oct 2018 OP
Not a surprise... Adrahil Oct 2018 #1
Yep, and they're trying to infiltrate and poison everything... Wounded Bear Oct 2018 #5
Last Jedi just sucked...really badly. Calculating Oct 2018 #2
No manor321 Oct 2018 #4
Explain? Calculating Oct 2018 #7
I doubt your personal issues with a film explain or expand upon the OP LanternWaste Oct 2018 #10
Don't forget all the ridiculous and pointless callbacks. Dave Starsky Oct 2018 #11
Great points exboyfil Oct 2018 #14
Yeah, it seems like everything has come too easily for Rey Calculating Oct 2018 #17
They could back story this stuff exboyfil Oct 2018 #21
bombs falling down in space d_r Oct 2018 #16
I forgot entirely about the Leia thing Calculating Oct 2018 #18
And they killed Admiral Ackbar exboyfil Oct 2018 #22
This. All of this. d_r Oct 2018 #36
Which of the movies can't be torn down that way? Amimnoch Oct 2018 #29
they all had silliness d_r Oct 2018 #37
You're entitled to your opinion Proud Liberal Dem Oct 2018 #35
I'm right there with you. Dave Starsky Oct 2018 #9
You are wrong, sir! Adrahil Oct 2018 #15
Wrong obamanut2012 Oct 2018 #19
The 45% audiance score on Rotten Tomatoes would imply differently. Calculating Oct 2018 #20
Agree, I thought it was stupid n/t hibbing Oct 2018 #26
Let's see what Mr. Plinkett has to say! Dr. Strange Oct 2018 #33
Behind the scenes documentary manor321 Oct 2018 #3
Thanks for that! Scurrilous Oct 2018 #6
The Russians know their target audience gratuitous Oct 2018 #8
I thought they ruined characters I kind of liked exboyfil Oct 2018 #24
Lucas based his original trilogy on "The Hero's Journey". Dave Starsky Oct 2018 #25
Even with its clunkiness the prequel trilogy exboyfil Oct 2018 #31
"Boba Fett on the other hand - I have never understood the fandom for him." BumRushDaShow Oct 2018 #38
Once the anonymous St Pertersburg brigade began using "SJW," LanternWaste Oct 2018 #12
This living breathing human being hated it Devil Child Oct 2018 #13
My nephew has been a Star Wars fanatic almost from birth. Dave Starsky Oct 2018 #27
That's too bad. Dr. Strange Oct 2018 #32
I liked the movie Gothmog Oct 2018 #23
It is, without a doubt, the worst SW movie ever made SomethingNew Oct 2018 #28
Solo is actually decent Calculating Oct 2018 #34
Solo was mostly an effort BumRushDaShow Oct 2018 #40
Confirms my suspicion, but epic kick... Blue_Tires Oct 2018 #30
most memorable scene of the movie... 0rganism Oct 2018 #39
Watch How it Should Have Ended exboyfil Oct 2018 #42
Damn. Those Russians have their fingers into everything. fescuerescue Oct 2018 #41
Life long (40 year) Star Wars fan. The movie is shit. Period. Stand and Fight Oct 2018 #43
I believe it... Docreed2003 Oct 2018 #44
 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
1. Not a surprise...
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 11:39 AM
Oct 2018

The Russians want to drive in wedges whereever they can.

FWIW, I am HUGE Star Wars nerd, and I loved The Last Jedi.

Wounded Bear

(58,698 posts)
5. Yep, and they're trying to infiltrate and poison everything...
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 11:41 AM
Oct 2018

There are no limits.

I haven't seen any movies for a few years, but I always figured the huge poutrage about Star Wars was manufactured bullshit.

Calculating

(2,957 posts)
2. Last Jedi just sucked...really badly.
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 11:40 AM
Oct 2018

It's not the women or people of color, the movie was just utter and absolute garbage. It literally took a giant dump all over existing Star Wars lore and precedent.

Calculating

(2,957 posts)
7. Explain?
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 11:47 AM
Oct 2018

Luke is portrayed as some bitter and broken down old man who contemplated killing his student at one point?
The largely meaningless casino planet seen which effectively added nothing to the movie.
The idiotic part where the leader of the rebel ship didn't tell anybody the plan and the crew staged a mutiny because they thought the leadership was ineffective.
Admiral Snoke (literally the supreme evil of the galaxy) dying to some silly trick?
Luke 'fading away' from expending too much force energy?
Ghost Yoda frying a tree with lightning like he's Thor or something.

Don't even get me started on the worst part of the movie, which was the hyper speed kamikaze attack against the imperial fleet. They just made EVERY SINGLE SPACE BATTLE in the series irrelevant with that bs. Why not just ram a space freighter into the death stars at light speed? Why not take out the star killer base doing that? Why sacrifice the main rebel ship when they could have had the medical ship ram Snoke's ship instead? Why, why why?

TLJ was a complete, and irredeemable disgrace to the franchise. It was so bad that it caused the next movie "Solo" which was actually decent to bomb.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
10. I doubt your personal issues with a film explain or expand upon the OP
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 11:54 AM
Oct 2018

Your opinion will undoubtedly be given all the relevancy that both the topic of the OP and the objectivity of your sentiment, warrants.

Dave Starsky

(5,914 posts)
11. Don't forget all the ridiculous and pointless callbacks.
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 11:57 AM
Oct 2018

Cantina scene? Check.

Race through the "tunnel of death"? Check.

How many goddamn times do we have to see those? I can almost guarantee they'll be in the next movie, too.

exboyfil

(17,865 posts)
14. Great points
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 12:00 PM
Oct 2018

I would add Rose's intervention on Finn's suicide run and the fact that they could get back to the fortress. That one move totally destroyed that character for me.

An otherwise good character in Rey totally spoiled by not actually having any sort of dramatic arc. Think about Luke after the confrontation with Vader on the Cloud City.

The comedic start with Finn after suffering a serious wounding in the first movie.

The fact that the acting Admiral waited until virtually the entire escape party had been turkey shot to finally do her kamikazee run.

I think with some tweaks you might be able to improve the movie.

1. I would move the Casino planet to the beginning of the movie, and I would not have them stupidly grabbing some stranger to perform whatever McGuffin (which I would have made making the Emperor's ship vulnerable to such a hyperspace attack).
2. They actually lured them into this hyperspace attack trap.

Calculating

(2,957 posts)
17. Yeah, it seems like everything has come too easily for Rey
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 12:23 PM
Oct 2018

Where's the real struggle for her? No real training to speak of and she can suddenly lift a pile of boulders with her mind and go toe to toe with trained warriors in combat?

exboyfil

(17,865 posts)
21. They could back story this stuff
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 01:20 PM
Oct 2018

on the combat portion at least. She is abandoned as a young child. Why couldn't she be in the fighting pits like Conan? Maybe they only competed with blunt swords and staffs. Then transferal to a light saber (and possibly a saberstaff ala Darth Maul).

Calculating

(2,957 posts)
18. I forgot entirely about the Leia thing
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 12:25 PM
Oct 2018

That was literally cringe worthy. It actually would have made perfect sense to kill her off because the actress died in real life. Instead they have her wake up out in the vacuum of space, and 'Mary Poppins' herself back to the ship?

exboyfil

(17,865 posts)
22. And they killed Admiral Ackbar
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 01:24 PM
Oct 2018

in a totally pointless way.

The acting admiral (Laura Dern) leads the escape to the planet.
The Imperial ship is led into the hyperspace trap.

Admiral Ackbar tells Kilo Ren, "This is a trap" before punching the hyperdrive.

Fans would have been a lot happier.

 

Amimnoch

(4,558 posts)
29. Which of the movies can't be torn down that way?
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 02:54 PM
Oct 2018

Episode 4: swords made of light?? being able to move things with the mind? making people respond the way you want with the wave of your hand? Ridiculous that Jawa sand-crawlers used tracks instead of repulsor tech to float across the desert fast. Why'd they fly down that ridiculously long trench with all the laser towers blasting away at them when they could have just flown directly to the exhaust port? Speaking of which, why does something so technologically advanced have such a stupid flaw?? (yes I know this last one was recently answered with Rogue 1, but 40 years later)…. Obi-Wan just disappears in a puff of smoke when Vader strikes him down, but others in other episodes get cut in half...

It's StarWars... suspension of belief is all part of it. ANY episode can be torn apart with logic.

d_r

(6,907 posts)
37. they all had silliness
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 07:57 PM
Oct 2018

and yes, none were accurate physics or anything, but this one was a qualitatively different.

Proud Liberal Dem

(24,436 posts)
35. You're entitled to your opinion
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 04:39 PM
Oct 2018

I really liked it and, in terms of some aspects of it seeming pretty wild or weird in terms of Star Wars lore, it's important to note that the original movies, as well as the Legends canon had some pretty wild & weird stuff in it too. If I had major criticisms of the movie, it's that they didn't explain very well what's going on in the wider galaxy with the destruction of the Senate (TFA) and why everybody is simply capitulating to the First Order instead of banding together against it, as well as pretty much nothing going right for the Resistance the entire movie (I expect that will be changed in Ep IX).

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
15. You are wrong, sir!
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 12:04 PM
Oct 2018

Opinions. We al have them. I loved it. Top 4 SW movie for me. Sorry you did not enjoy it.

Calculating

(2,957 posts)
20. The 45% audiance score on Rotten Tomatoes would imply differently.
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 12:52 PM
Oct 2018

Like really, 45% for a star wars movie?

 

manor321

(3,344 posts)
3. Behind the scenes documentary
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 11:41 AM
Oct 2018

Johnson actually mentions getting a lot of Tweets apparently from Russia while he was making the movie. We can see his comment in the behind the scenes video on the Blu-ray. This was even before the movie was released.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
8. The Russians know their target audience
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 11:50 AM
Oct 2018

Disaffected dudebros who haven't gotten everything out of life that they're entitled to, and that impotent sub rosa rage is just waiting for a chance to erupt. So naturally a movie franchise that moves women and people of color to the center of the action is going to offend their fragile sensibilities. 50.9% of the negative tweets come out of troll farms and bots, coloring the public perception and seeking to force creatives to cater to the aggrieved little boys who can't handle change that affects their privilege.

exboyfil

(17,865 posts)
24. I thought they ruined characters I kind of liked
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 01:27 PM
Oct 2018

through their stupid actions or lack of a decent character arc. It had nothing to do who the actual characters were.

Dave Starsky

(5,914 posts)
25. Lucas based his original trilogy on "The Hero's Journey".
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 02:24 PM
Oct 2018

He was a big Joseph Campbell buff.

And that is why, aside from a few missteps, the original trilogy is so satisfying.

The last five core Star Wars movies have been based on a different quest: "The Quest for More Money from Toy Sales, While Putting the Least Effort into an Intriguing Plot, Compelling Characters, or Anything Else that Makes a Movie Worth Spending $13 at the Theater to See".

exboyfil

(17,865 posts)
31. Even with its clunkiness the prequel trilogy
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 03:11 PM
Oct 2018

at least tried to make an attempt at what you say. After the last two I am starting to look back more fondly on that effort.

The shame is that Rogue One was a really good movie, and Solo was a passable, if unasked for effort. I was genuinely looking forward to the Obi Wan movie with Ewan Mcgregor. He was the best thing about the prequels. Boba Fett on the other hand - I have never understood the fandom for him. Him and Phasma are two cool looking characters that were really given nothing to do. Phasma and Hux were simply pathetic.

It is amazing how many franchises are in trouble. DCEU, Star Wars, and Star Trek.

BumRushDaShow

(129,376 posts)
38. "Boba Fett on the other hand - I have never understood the fandom for him."
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 08:09 PM
Oct 2018

OMG I thought I was the only one!

40 years later and I still don't get how a character that maybe had no more than about 5 minutes of screen time between 2 movies, could become so much of a cult figure that he got a whole movie just about dedicated to his backstory.

Thank you!

What comes to my mind is this -



 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
12. Once the anonymous St Pertersburg brigade began using "SJW,"
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 11:57 AM
Oct 2018

it became somewhat obvious that criticizing the film was simply a pretext, and became secondary to their absurd, self-oppressed "we white men are getting shafted!" routine.

Bless their idiot hearts.

 

Devil Child

(2,728 posts)
13. This living breathing human being hated it
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 11:59 AM
Oct 2018

There are many many sentient and living critics of The Last Jedi, not just russki-bots.

Dave Starsky

(5,914 posts)
27. My nephew has been a Star Wars fanatic almost from birth.
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 02:49 PM
Oct 2018

For him, Star Wars is like the Lord of the Rings was for me when I was his age. He knows every character and their backstory, and he can quote any line from any movie.

HE HATED The Last Jedi. So much so, that he completely passed on Solo.

He and I both liked Rogue One, but as a Guns-of-Navarone-type standalone adventure. Maybe Disney needs to focus on making that kind of movie.

Dr. Strange

(25,922 posts)
32. That's too bad.
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 03:24 PM
Oct 2018

Solo was a decent movie. Not as good as Rogue One, but better than The Force Awakens and way better than The Last Jedi.

He should give it a shot once it's on Netflix, etc.

SomethingNew

(279 posts)
28. It is, without a doubt, the worst SW movie ever made
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 02:54 PM
Oct 2018

Well, I guess I can't say for sure if it's worse than Solo because TLJ was so incredibly bad that I didn't bother watching Solo.

BumRushDaShow

(129,376 posts)
40. Solo was mostly an effort
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 08:39 PM
Oct 2018

to shoe-horn some of the cliche Han Solo backstories into the "canon" ST universe. I.e., "the Kessel Run", the card game that won Solo the Millennium Falcon, the Chewbacca hook-up. As a Star Trek fan who is also a Star Wars fan, I know the hardcore Star Wars fans crave more of the dark stories of the "underground" of that galaxy with the smugglers and other unsavory characters who exist by bending and/or breaking the rules and flouting the authority of the Empire. I also wasn't enamored by the actor who played Lando... No one can do Bill Dee like Billy Dee. I did see where Bill Dee Williams was signed to do the final film however.

If anything, the plot that essentially focused on the raw costs of literal and realistic "ground wars" within the Empire as system after system fell, was probably what made the film the most unique among any of the other 9 that have been released. I.e., except for the very end with the "Kessel Run", I don't believe there was one (dogfight-style) "space battle" in the entire film.

0rganism

(23,967 posts)
39. most memorable scene of the movie...
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 08:16 PM
Oct 2018

i really don't think we can blame this travesty solely, or even mostly, on Russian bots.

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
41. Damn. Those Russians have their fingers into everything.
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 09:14 PM
Oct 2018

Now they are messing with my Star Wars.

If they start messing with Star Trek. I'm really gonna be pissed.

Docreed2003

(16,869 posts)
44. I believe it...
Wed Oct 3, 2018, 09:25 AM
Oct 2018

There certainly was a subset of fans who strongly disliked the movie, but that was stoked significantly by online reviews on places like Rotten Tomatoes where users were posting nearly identical posts blasting the film. I'm not surprised that there were bots stoking the flames of controversy.

It's also humorous to read posts that say, "I'm a lifelong fan...I hated it"... lol, like that's supposed to carry more weight than saying "I'm a lifelong fan and I truly enjoyed it and felt the criticisms were largely overblown" (which is my personal opinion). It's all just "like your opinion man"

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