General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsStudy suggests Russian trolls helped amplify the Last Jedi "backlash"
<snip>
"Nearly a year after its release, its accepted wisdom that Rian Johnsons Star Wars movie, The Last Jedi, was a controversial entry in the franchises canon. But where does that controversial reputation come from? Mostly the online discoursealways an unruly hive of scum and villainywhich has seen the movies stars (specifically women and people of color) hounded off of social media, and Johnsons own account frequently addressed by people supposedly pissed off by the movies politics.
But now, a new study out of USC suggests that some of that outrage may have been manufactured, at least in part by some of the same forces that sought to influence the 2016 elections, i.e., alleged bots and Russian internet trolls. Titled Weaponizing The Haters, and penned by researcher Morten Bay, the paper combs through tweets directed at Johnson in the wake of the movies release, in an effort to analyze the motivations and origins behind some of the online negativity around the film.
Bays study collected all of the tweets directed at Johnson between the films release in December 2017 and July 2018, and categorized the negative ones (themselves a meager 21 percent minority) into three groups: Politically-motivated tweeters pissed off the by films upholding of Star Wars left-leaning ideals, fans who legitimately hated it, and a more nebulous collection of bots, fake accounts, and alleged Russian trolls. Bay lays out a few generally accepted but loose criteria for identifying a Russia-based troll on Twittermostly involving choice of screen name, account habits, and a tendency toward posting at certain peek hoursbut admitted that the study couldnt definitively state which of the accounts were Russian in origin. (Hes more confident about the bots, which have more easily recognizable tells.)
Although Bay is careful not to draw any bold accusations or assumptions about the reasons the controversy around The Last Jedi was shaped, he does note that the tactics on display werent uncommon among Russian actors and extreme right-wing operatives during the 2016 electoral race. At the time, numerous pop culture and nerdy groups were infiltrated by politically motivated voices, who attempted to lure them in with shared connections and gripes (i.e., the They ruined my childhood! school of changing hearts and minds). Ultimately, his research found that Overall, 50.9% of those tweeting negatively [about The Last Jedi] were likely politically motivated or not even human, which hey, Morten, we could have told you that last part for free."
https://news.avclub.com/study-suggests-russian-trolls-helped-amplify-the-last-j-1829453731
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)The Russians want to drive in wedges whereever they can.
FWIW, I am HUGE Star Wars nerd, and I loved The Last Jedi.
Wounded Bear
(58,698 posts)There are no limits.
I haven't seen any movies for a few years, but I always figured the huge poutrage about Star Wars was manufactured bullshit.
Calculating
(2,957 posts)It's not the women or people of color, the movie was just utter and absolute garbage. It literally took a giant dump all over existing Star Wars lore and precedent.
It was a good movie. And a good Star Wars movie.
Calculating
(2,957 posts)Luke is portrayed as some bitter and broken down old man who contemplated killing his student at one point?
The largely meaningless casino planet seen which effectively added nothing to the movie.
The idiotic part where the leader of the rebel ship didn't tell anybody the plan and the crew staged a mutiny because they thought the leadership was ineffective.
Admiral Snoke (literally the supreme evil of the galaxy) dying to some silly trick?
Luke 'fading away' from expending too much force energy?
Ghost Yoda frying a tree with lightning like he's Thor or something.
Don't even get me started on the worst part of the movie, which was the hyper speed kamikaze attack against the imperial fleet. They just made EVERY SINGLE SPACE BATTLE in the series irrelevant with that bs. Why not just ram a space freighter into the death stars at light speed? Why not take out the star killer base doing that? Why sacrifice the main rebel ship when they could have had the medical ship ram Snoke's ship instead? Why, why why?
TLJ was a complete, and irredeemable disgrace to the franchise. It was so bad that it caused the next movie "Solo" which was actually decent to bomb.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Your opinion will undoubtedly be given all the relevancy that both the topic of the OP and the objectivity of your sentiment, warrants.
Dave Starsky
(5,914 posts)Cantina scene? Check.
Race through the "tunnel of death"? Check.
How many goddamn times do we have to see those? I can almost guarantee they'll be in the next movie, too.
exboyfil
(17,865 posts)I would add Rose's intervention on Finn's suicide run and the fact that they could get back to the fortress. That one move totally destroyed that character for me.
An otherwise good character in Rey totally spoiled by not actually having any sort of dramatic arc. Think about Luke after the confrontation with Vader on the Cloud City.
The comedic start with Finn after suffering a serious wounding in the first movie.
The fact that the acting Admiral waited until virtually the entire escape party had been turkey shot to finally do her kamikazee run.
I think with some tweaks you might be able to improve the movie.
1. I would move the Casino planet to the beginning of the movie, and I would not have them stupidly grabbing some stranger to perform whatever McGuffin (which I would have made making the Emperor's ship vulnerable to such a hyperspace attack).
2. They actually lured them into this hyperspace attack trap.
Calculating
(2,957 posts)Where's the real struggle for her? No real training to speak of and she can suddenly lift a pile of boulders with her mind and go toe to toe with trained warriors in combat?
exboyfil
(17,865 posts)on the combat portion at least. She is abandoned as a young child. Why couldn't she be in the fighting pits like Conan? Maybe they only competed with blunt swords and staffs. Then transferal to a light saber (and possibly a saberstaff ala Darth Maul).
d_r
(6,907 posts)Leia living in space. You are right whole thing was stupid.
Calculating
(2,957 posts)That was literally cringe worthy. It actually would have made perfect sense to kill her off because the actress died in real life. Instead they have her wake up out in the vacuum of space, and 'Mary Poppins' herself back to the ship?
exboyfil
(17,865 posts)in a totally pointless way.
The acting admiral (Laura Dern) leads the escape to the planet.
The Imperial ship is led into the hyperspace trap.
Admiral Ackbar tells Kilo Ren, "This is a trap" before punching the hyperdrive.
Fans would have been a lot happier.
d_r
(6,907 posts)Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Episode 4: swords made of light?? being able to move things with the mind? making people respond the way you want with the wave of your hand? Ridiculous that Jawa sand-crawlers used tracks instead of repulsor tech to float across the desert fast. Why'd they fly down that ridiculously long trench with all the laser towers blasting away at them when they could have just flown directly to the exhaust port? Speaking of which, why does something so technologically advanced have such a stupid flaw?? (yes I know this last one was recently answered with Rogue 1, but 40 years later)
. Obi-Wan just disappears in a puff of smoke when Vader strikes him down, but others in other episodes get cut in half...
It's StarWars... suspension of belief is all part of it. ANY episode can be torn apart with logic.
d_r
(6,907 posts)and yes, none were accurate physics or anything, but this one was a qualitatively different.
Proud Liberal Dem
(24,436 posts)I really liked it and, in terms of some aspects of it seeming pretty wild or weird in terms of Star Wars lore, it's important to note that the original movies, as well as the Legends canon had some pretty wild & weird stuff in it too. If I had major criticisms of the movie, it's that they didn't explain very well what's going on in the wider galaxy with the destruction of the Senate (TFA) and why everybody is simply capitulating to the First Order instead of banding together against it, as well as pretty much nothing going right for the Resistance the entire movie (I expect that will be changed in Ep IX).
Dave Starsky
(5,914 posts)It was so awful on almost every level, it actually made me mad.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Opinions. We al have them. I loved it. Top 4 SW movie for me. Sorry you did not enjoy it.
obamanut2012
(26,111 posts)YOU didn't like it for concerned reasons, but it was a good movie, and a good SW movie.
Calculating
(2,957 posts)Like really, 45% for a star wars movie?
hibbing
(10,109 posts)Dr. Strange
(25,922 posts)manor321
(3,344 posts)Johnson actually mentions getting a lot of Tweets apparently from Russia while he was making the movie. We can see his comment in the behind the scenes video on the Blu-ray. This was even before the movie was released.
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)gratuitous
(82,849 posts)Disaffected dudebros who haven't gotten everything out of life that they're entitled to, and that impotent sub rosa rage is just waiting for a chance to erupt. So naturally a movie franchise that moves women and people of color to the center of the action is going to offend their fragile sensibilities. 50.9% of the negative tweets come out of troll farms and bots, coloring the public perception and seeking to force creatives to cater to the aggrieved little boys who can't handle change that affects their privilege.
exboyfil
(17,865 posts)through their stupid actions or lack of a decent character arc. It had nothing to do who the actual characters were.
Dave Starsky
(5,914 posts)He was a big Joseph Campbell buff.
And that is why, aside from a few missteps, the original trilogy is so satisfying.
The last five core Star Wars movies have been based on a different quest: "The Quest for More Money from Toy Sales, While Putting the Least Effort into an Intriguing Plot, Compelling Characters, or Anything Else that Makes a Movie Worth Spending $13 at the Theater to See".
exboyfil
(17,865 posts)at least tried to make an attempt at what you say. After the last two I am starting to look back more fondly on that effort.
The shame is that Rogue One was a really good movie, and Solo was a passable, if unasked for effort. I was genuinely looking forward to the Obi Wan movie with Ewan Mcgregor. He was the best thing about the prequels. Boba Fett on the other hand - I have never understood the fandom for him. Him and Phasma are two cool looking characters that were really given nothing to do. Phasma and Hux were simply pathetic.
It is amazing how many franchises are in trouble. DCEU, Star Wars, and Star Trek.
BumRushDaShow
(129,376 posts)OMG I thought I was the only one!
40 years later and I still don't get how a character that maybe had no more than about 5 minutes of screen time between 2 movies, could become so much of a cult figure that he got a whole movie just about dedicated to his backstory.
Thank you!
What comes to my mind is this -
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)it became somewhat obvious that criticizing the film was simply a pretext, and became secondary to their absurd, self-oppressed "we white men are getting shafted!" routine.
Bless their idiot hearts.
Devil Child
(2,728 posts)There are many many sentient and living critics of The Last Jedi, not just russki-bots.
Dave Starsky
(5,914 posts)For him, Star Wars is like the Lord of the Rings was for me when I was his age. He knows every character and their backstory, and he can quote any line from any movie.
HE HATED The Last Jedi. So much so, that he completely passed on Solo.
He and I both liked Rogue One, but as a Guns-of-Navarone-type standalone adventure. Maybe Disney needs to focus on making that kind of movie.
Dr. Strange
(25,922 posts)Solo was a decent movie. Not as good as Rogue One, but better than The Force Awakens and way better than The Last Jedi.
He should give it a shot once it's on Netflix, etc.
Gothmog
(145,496 posts)SomethingNew
(279 posts)Well, I guess I can't say for sure if it's worse than Solo because TLJ was so incredibly bad that I didn't bother watching Solo.
Calculating
(2,957 posts)It's a shame it bombed due to TLJ backlash.
BumRushDaShow
(129,376 posts)to shoe-horn some of the cliche Han Solo backstories into the "canon" ST universe. I.e., "the Kessel Run", the card game that won Solo the Millennium Falcon, the Chewbacca hook-up. As a Star Trek fan who is also a Star Wars fan, I know the hardcore Star Wars fans crave more of the dark stories of the "underground" of that galaxy with the smugglers and other unsavory characters who exist by bending and/or breaking the rules and flouting the authority of the Empire. I also wasn't enamored by the actor who played Lando... No one can do Bill Dee like Billy Dee. I did see where Bill Dee Williams was signed to do the final film however.
If anything, the plot that essentially focused on the raw costs of literal and realistic "ground wars" within the Empire as system after system fell, was probably what made the film the most unique among any of the other 9 that have been released. I.e., except for the very end with the "Kessel Run", I don't believe there was one (dogfight-style) "space battle" in the entire film.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)0rganism
(23,967 posts)i really don't think we can blame this travesty solely, or even mostly, on Russian bots.
exboyfil
(17,865 posts)They have a great take on that scene.
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)Now they are messing with my Star Wars.
If they start messing with Star Trek. I'm really gonna be pissed.
Stand and Fight
(7,480 posts)Docreed2003
(16,869 posts)There certainly was a subset of fans who strongly disliked the movie, but that was stoked significantly by online reviews on places like Rotten Tomatoes where users were posting nearly identical posts blasting the film. I'm not surprised that there were bots stoking the flames of controversy.
It's also humorous to read posts that say, "I'm a lifelong fan...I hated it"... lol, like that's supposed to carry more weight than saying "I'm a lifelong fan and I truly enjoyed it and felt the criticisms were largely overblown" (which is my personal opinion). It's all just "like your opinion man"