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fleur-de-lisa

(14,628 posts)
Wed Oct 3, 2018, 01:48 PM Oct 2018

Civil Tax Penalties Could Bankrupt Trump and His Family

https://www.politicususa.com/2018/10/03/civil-tax-penalties-could-bankrupt-trump-and-his-family.html

Even though the statutes of limitations may have expired for criminal tax fraud (because the events took place so long ago) that would not be the case for the imposition of civil tax penalties. Which would mean Trump and his family may be on the hook for hundreds of millions of dollars. It is not far-fetched to think that this could possibly wipe out his entire net worth and bankrupt him.

The Times documented many “instances of outright fraud” that could be subject to civil — if not criminal — penalties.

In the Trump family financial records there are such fraudulent transactions as inflated invoices where a contractor gives an invoice to a subcontractor that inflates the cost of the work so that they could get a kickback.

There is also evidence of another type of fraudulent transaction: bogus loans. This is where money is transferred to one person, and loan paperwork is completed, but the loan is never repaid. That money transfer should have been taxed as income, but it never was.

According to the Times report Trump’s father used fraudulent loans over many decades to illegally avoid paying taxes on money transfers to Donald and his siblings.

Another type of fraud is mis-representations of the value of real estate properties in official filings. According to the Times, the Trumps would undervalue real estate for tax purposes, and thus illegally avoided paying taxes that would have been due.

They also overvalued the same property in bank documents when applying for loans, which is another type of fraud.

Even if Trump can’t be charged with crimes might eventually be required to pay tens or hundreds of millions in back taxes under the civil penalty rules of the IRS.

It addition to the potential IRS problems, New York state tax officials are also investigating the fraud allegations detailed in the Times investigation.

According to CNBC they received an email from a spokesman from the New York State Department of Taxation and Finance who wrote:

“The New York Tax Department is reviewing the allegations in the New York Times article and is vigorously pursuing all appropriate avenues of investigation.”

The New York Times article was a disaster for Trump and his family, both politically and financially. The IRS is limited to how far back it can look when filing criminal charges, but there is no statute of limitations for civil tax fraud. For civil tax fraud the IRS can come after you any time.

Even though Donald Trump may never go to jail for his crimes, there is now a good chance that he may get wiped out financially for tax fraud. It appears that for Donald Trump and his family justice may not be denied.
54 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Civil Tax Penalties Could Bankrupt Trump and His Family (Original Post) fleur-de-lisa Oct 2018 OP
Good...The Trumps deserve all the bad Karma they have wrought..... ProudMNDemocrat Oct 2018 #1
they'd just hide the money for decades. unblock Oct 2018 #2
Good DeminPennswoods Oct 2018 #3
+10000000000000 iluvtennis Oct 2018 #43
Oh please, oh please, oh please. smirkymonkey Oct 2018 #4
Yes they do. LuvNewcastle Oct 2018 #36
They are still pulling the same tricks, so he could still go to jail marylandblue Oct 2018 #5
Yeah, what would ever motivate them to change such lucrative (if illegal) practices? deurbano Oct 2018 #40
I wish I could decide how much my house was worth to avoid property tax. (Not serious of course). BSdetect Oct 2018 #6
That was my thought too. Duppers Oct 2018 #12
I wish we could all stop paying taxes in protest until he is out.. HipChick Oct 2018 #13
I hope that happens .... CatMor Oct 2018 #7
may it be so!!! niyad Oct 2018 #8
Please, please Polly Hennessey Oct 2018 #9
Don't excite me malaise Oct 2018 #10
He'll seek refuge in Russia first sandensea Oct 2018 #11
If anyone has not read Timmygoat Oct 2018 #14
And he's proud of it! sandensea Oct 2018 #52
We need to freeze his assets here in the US FakeNoose Oct 2018 #16
+1 sandensea Oct 2018 #51
We can only hope. But I don't see him ever financially suffering LiberalLovinLug Oct 2018 #15
"That he could actually ruin someone's life." I'll extend that to "everyone's life." erronis Oct 2018 #32
I'll bet they are still doing it and are doing the exact same thing now, I'd guarantee you. sunonmars Oct 2018 #17
Could the Trumps be Barred from Doing Business in New York? dlk Oct 2018 #18
When? bucolic_frolic Oct 2018 #19
Yes, I would like to see him and ilk in jail but I'm sure to him, penniless would be very close Thekaspervote Oct 2018 #20
Who has the pool? The Conductor Oct 2018 #21
Wow, how did you remember all of those? BigmanPigman Oct 2018 #37
That deserves it's own OP! smirkymonkey Oct 2018 #38
I heard someone on the tube last night say these cases are very hard to prove/win. I sincerely FromTheAshes Oct 2018 #22
How do you volstork Oct 2018 #23
If I could see Melanie and Ivanka standing on a corner holding a sign I would toss them a quarter. Autumn Oct 2018 #24
go for it! then....lock them all up. NRaleighLiberal Oct 2018 #25
In New York (and I'm an ex-Manhattanite, so I can say this) it's merely a question of finding who BamaRefugee Oct 2018 #26
Given that Trump has a history of not paying his lawyers vlyons Oct 2018 #27
He just won't pay it - next lame54 Oct 2018 #28
I'm sure they could arrange more more Russian Oligarch loan money - n/t lapfog_1 Oct 2018 #29
I'm sure his money stashed offshore, just in case. Scruffy1 Oct 2018 #30
Holding my breathe until State indicts. OhNo-Really Oct 2018 #31
Hope they look into Ivanka and her 326 businesses, I bet there is some serious tax fraud Meadowoak Oct 2018 #33
Just repossess greymattermom Oct 2018 #34
Repossess it all jmowreader Oct 2018 #50
That would be wonderful Bettie Oct 2018 #35
I care less how this evil empire is destroyed, just that it is destroyed. olegramps Oct 2018 #39
Good! This is what I'd call justice meow2u3 Oct 2018 #41
Yeah! Do it! Squinch Oct 2018 #42
#1 Grifter in United States history. sarcasmo Oct 2018 #44
That is my dream outcome Hekate Oct 2018 #45
Don't forget Capone.. AZ8theist Oct 2018 #46
I'm not holding my breath pdsimdars Oct 2018 #47
Wonder where the sister who is a federal judge fits in here? libdem4life Oct 2018 #48
She's subject to penalties, as well. She's filed bogus returns. ancianita Oct 2018 #49
Boo Hoo Gothmog Oct 2018 #53
Works for me. lindysalsagal Oct 2018 #54

ProudMNDemocrat

(16,789 posts)
1. Good...The Trumps deserve all the bad Karma they have wrought.....
Wed Oct 3, 2018, 01:51 PM
Oct 2018

Corruption has a way of frothing to the surface,, and the Trumps are the prime example.
 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
4. Oh please, oh please, oh please.
Wed Oct 3, 2018, 01:57 PM
Oct 2018

There is so much crime and dirt in this family, something has to stick eventually. They can't stay lucky forever. Not when they are as stupid and as careless as they are. They practically advertise their crimes.

LuvNewcastle

(16,856 posts)
36. Yes they do.
Wed Oct 3, 2018, 03:50 PM
Oct 2018

It's like their flaunting it. I guess they're telling the whole world, 'look at us we can do anything we want.'

deurbano

(2,895 posts)
40. Yeah, what would ever motivate them to change such lucrative (if illegal) practices?
Wed Oct 3, 2018, 04:09 PM
Oct 2018

Last edited Tue Oct 9, 2018, 12:58 PM - Edit history (1)

It's not like they ever had to pay a price. (WE are the ones paying the price!)

BSdetect

(8,999 posts)
6. I wish I could decide how much my house was worth to avoid property tax. (Not serious of course).
Wed Oct 3, 2018, 01:59 PM
Oct 2018

How the fuck does that BS work?

Are state or federal authorities just letting companies declare such values? Seems really odd.



CatMor

(6,212 posts)
7. I hope that happens ....
Wed Oct 3, 2018, 02:00 PM
Oct 2018

it would be the ultimate punishment for that totally corrupt family. Leave them with nothing.

sandensea

(21,664 posts)
11. He'll seek refuge in Russia first
Wed Oct 3, 2018, 02:43 PM
Oct 2018

Question is: Will Uncle Vlad still take him in when he's no longer useful.

Timmygoat

(779 posts)
14. If anyone has not read
Wed Oct 3, 2018, 02:47 PM
Oct 2018

The background of Trump's family who came from Germany, where grandad was kicked out, they have all been con artists, from the Canadian brothels, to the slums of New York, where they preyed on the poor and rented slums to them, they have always cheated people and would not know how to live any differently.

sandensea

(21,664 posts)
52. And he's proud of it!
Wed Oct 3, 2018, 05:26 PM
Oct 2018

Of course, I doubt his Klansman, slum lord father was too proud of Don the Con, when he tried to swindle his own father.

Just like his old buddy Macri down in Argentina, by the way. And we all know he turned out.

FakeNoose

(32,748 posts)
16. We need to freeze his assets here in the US
Wed Oct 3, 2018, 02:54 PM
Oct 2018

Maybe we can't stop him from fleeing, but the money stays here.
His family owes Uncle Sam for about 50 years' worth of back taxes.



sandensea

(21,664 posts)
51. +1
Wed Oct 3, 2018, 05:23 PM
Oct 2018

And dammit, why hasn't the CIA leaked what they have on the Orange Mole yet.

On second thought: Perhaps they're biding their time, waiting for the right moment.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,176 posts)
15. We can only hope. But I don't see him ever financially suffering
Wed Oct 3, 2018, 02:51 PM
Oct 2018

He probably has a lot of cash stored away in off shore Cayman Islands accounts or other tax shelters. And can still wheel and deal in other countries like Russia. And I'm sure his present day position is affording him all kinds of openings for making a lot of money. In his life as a businessman, he reportedly was vindictive to the point of doing everything he could to ruin someone else that he had a tiff with, or bested him on some business deal etc..

What is scary now is that he is in a position, if abused "properly", that he could actually ruin someone's life.

erronis

(15,328 posts)
32. "That he could actually ruin someone's life." I'll extend that to "everyone's life."
Wed Oct 3, 2018, 03:44 PM
Oct 2018

For someone that has no empathy/compassion genes/neurons, dump is totally capable of plunging this country and even the world into darkness.

Much like Hitler, the world will end when he kills himself in his little bunker. And why should he care? He has no real family - just bought wives, children. When a person is so unloved (just feared) he is disconnected from humanity.

sunonmars

(8,656 posts)
17. I'll bet they are still doing it and are doing the exact same thing now, I'd guarantee you.
Wed Oct 3, 2018, 02:55 PM
Oct 2018

No statute of limitations on those.......

The Conductor

(180 posts)
21. Who has the pool?
Wed Oct 3, 2018, 03:23 PM
Oct 2018

Who has the pool going about which pile of Trump crap derails Orange Mussolooney first? The Stormy Daniels payoffs? Illegal campaign financing? The various piles of Russian scandals? The emoluments suit? The obstruction of justice cases? The Trump charity scandal? Other secret payoffs? The illegal deal with Justice Kennedy? Lying to the FBI? All those "GREAT PEOPLE" committing perjury by failing to mention foreign contacts? Treason? Trump’s firing of U.S. attorneys? Cabinet secretary travel, office expenses, and other misused perks? Family separation policy? Hurricane response in Puerto Rico? Election security and hacking attempts? White House staff’s personal email use? Discussion of classified information at Mar-a-Lago? Jared Kushner shaping policy on Qatar after they didn't loan his father $1B? Whitefish Energy? The defamation lawsuit bythe 15 women who have accused Trump of groping them? The inside coup by Trump's own staff? The scandal over Kavanaugh? Trump's head of the VA misuse of funds and apparently going completely off the rails mentally? The Steel Tariff and Icahn selling $30M in stock on possible insider trading? Refusal to enact Russian Sanctions that were passed near unanimously? Kellyanne Conway and the Hatch Act? Roger Stone and Wikileaks? That Trump Hotel in Panama money laundry? The NRA possibly funneling Russian Money to the Trump Campaign? Nunes/Gowdy Lying to the American People Memo? Security Clearance issues in the White House? The Mueller Investigation? Or this latest tax fraud? There are more, of course...

It's the death of a thousand cuts for Trumpism.

 

FromTheAshes

(128 posts)
22. I heard someone on the tube last night say these cases are very hard to prove/win. I sincerely
Wed Oct 3, 2018, 03:25 PM
Oct 2018

hope not in this instance.

Autumn

(45,120 posts)
24. If I could see Melanie and Ivanka standing on a corner holding a sign I would toss them a quarter.
Wed Oct 3, 2018, 03:31 PM
Oct 2018

Followed by an open Slurpee. Just in case it's a hot day.

BamaRefugee

(3,487 posts)
26. In New York (and I'm an ex-Manhattanite, so I can say this) it's merely a question of finding who
Wed Oct 3, 2018, 03:31 PM
Oct 2018

is the right person to pay off, and how much will it be.

vlyons

(10,252 posts)
27. Given that Trump has a history of not paying his lawyers
Wed Oct 3, 2018, 03:36 PM
Oct 2018

Who in their right mind would take him as a client without a hefty up-front retainer fee. Don't look too god for Donny.

Scruffy1

(3,256 posts)
30. I'm sure his money stashed offshore, just in case.
Wed Oct 3, 2018, 03:42 PM
Oct 2018

If he's politically fried then i don't the the Russian mob will help him, since he would then have no value to them. If the Democratic Party controls the house they have subpoena power and whole lot of the leadership in the House and Senate could be in deep shit.

jmowreader

(50,562 posts)
50. Repossess it all
Wed Oct 3, 2018, 04:56 PM
Oct 2018

Unlike some of you fine folks, I'm not completely heartless. I would be more than happy to use taxpayer funds to purchase a dilapidated warehouse at the corner of World Ave. and Shall Ave. in Little Rock, Arkansas, as the site for a modest home for the whole Trump clan. It'd be really nice...it'll have white walls and brushed-chrome faucets, and it'll have big picture windows facing the street...where they can look out of them every day and see the Clinton Presidential Center in all its glory.

And as Donald Trump drives his Mexican-made Volkswagen car to his $11-per-hour shelf-stocking job at Walmart, a journey which requires driving past the Clinton library, he will reflect on the fact his own "presidential center" is a men's room and a women's room at Penn Station, where one can pay the proper respect to Mr. Trump's legacy without being arrested for it. But as we all know, no one told Mr. Trump to lead a life that makes Willie Sutton look like an honest man.

Bettie

(16,124 posts)
35. That would be wonderful
Wed Oct 3, 2018, 03:47 PM
Oct 2018

to see them penniless is one of my dreams.

"Oh, but what about the innocent children?" ....Yeah, there are poor kids all over the world, some of them being Trump spawn doesn't make me lose sleep.

meow2u3

(24,772 posts)
41. Good! This is what I'd call justice
Wed Oct 3, 2018, 04:12 PM
Oct 2018

He might stay out of jail if KavaNOPE allows him to pardon himself and his fellow gangsters, but he'll be broke as hell--a punishment worse than prison for him!

AZ8theist

(5,492 posts)
46. Don't forget Capone..
Wed Oct 3, 2018, 04:34 PM
Oct 2018

Al Capone eventually went to prison after being convicted of tax evasion.

No one on the planet cares HOW Doturd goes down, only that he does...

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
47. I'm not holding my breath
Wed Oct 3, 2018, 04:36 PM
Oct 2018

Let's just see if the establishment will ACTUALLY punish one of their own. What usually happens is a lot of smoke and righteous indignation and then a relatively small fine compared to what they actually stole.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
48. Wonder where the sister who is a federal judge fits in here?
Wed Oct 3, 2018, 04:38 PM
Oct 2018

Seems like he did this with all the kids...just more so with dimwit. But they certainly all knew.

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