I feel guilty about all the times I rolled my eyes when women talked about the extreme precautions they felt forced to take. No one should have to live under siege 24/7, but that's the crappy state of the world.

Again, I'm sorry.

On edit:

Re: people giving advice. Imagine you're driving down a road and somebody slams into your car and pretty much totals it. There are always people who jump in with helpful advice:

Oh, that road's dangerous, you should never go there.

Always slow down at any intersection just be be sure.

If you hadn't left the house so early, you would have been more rested and more alert.

If you were driving a Beemer like mine instead of your econobox, you would have been able to maneuver away.

... that she wasn't uncomfortable until the guy started acting like a scumbag.

She did the cost-benefit analysis and decided it would probably be okay. The result will probably need no more iterations.

-- Mal

... that she wasn't looking for advice or a post-mortem on what she did wrong.

Shall we just say that, before this event, her trigger was lest quick than that of your S/O? People fall all over the bell-curve when it comes to behavior.

-- Mal

Good grief, talk about blaming the victim. Own this men, and fix it.

Perhaps JPR is a better place for you

I have had it being falsely accused of something.

My comments were applicable to anyone


It is generally NOT good advice to to have strangers come to your house.

I don't do it, but in your great wisdom you say that I am trashing the victim

Which is a falsehood

This did NOT happen to the OP.

and, no matter your intentions, giving that kind of unsolicited, and UNNEEDED, advice, comes off sounding condescending at the very least.

THANK YOU. Mind if I quote you? OWN THIS, men! And FIX it! DAMMIT!

She should stay inside all day and pretend she's not there. She should also not go outside for any reason. Groceries, who needs 'em?

She should...
She should...
She should...
She should...

Or maybe YOU should realize that women have a right to lead their lives how they see fit. Sometimes no matter how good the intentions and precautions, bad things slip through. But more often than not, things work out ok.

Any advice for women without husbands?

LIE, and was just giving precautions that I do myself


but I will make everyone happy here. As a long time member, lifetime Democrat, pro-choice, pro-labor, pro-gayrights, etc. etc. etc as though I have to justify myself
I am outta here.


Wish you all well, and yeah I hope the door hits my ass on the way out


Thanks again

You didn’t say anything wrong.

I never understand when people try to tell others how to post on a discussion board. Smh.

59.000 posts are an investment. We need all hands.

You’ve been here awhile, and your voice is valuable.

You’ve been here a long time, so surely you’ve been through the ups and downs of this place.

It’s perfectly OK to get pissed off at the people who are ready to stereotype and broadbrush everyone, but don’t let them drive you away. I hope you get this message and reconsider.

This is a really touchy subject and it’s really hard to know how to say things without sounding like you’re blaming the victim, but the fact is that what many men say is good advice. It’s certainly what women who have found themselves in these terrifying situations figure out to do or not do after the fact.

and pay the price. Don't listen to those scurrilous, condescending wiseacres, who would probably even advise their prepubertal kids not to hitch-hike or wear a tee-shirt with a lewd message on it. You have a perfect right to be safe no matter what the reality, and don't let anyone tell you different!

WHY THE FUCK BLAME THE VICTIM for not taking more precautions?





Your post makes me want to vomit.


Is that all you got out of the OP? That you should pop into this thread to finger wag?

No comment that it is insane that women should have to live this way. No comment that we need to track down, shame and incarcerate these pervs. No, not you. You had to pile on the WOMAN and suggest she isn't living in this insanity with enough GUSTO. You suggest she needs to be even MORE cowed and cautious, otherwise it's women's own damn fault when they get raped, amiright?

people are accusing me of "victimizing", which is not what I was doing

I well self-delete the post, and then I am out of here

Just a FYI, though, there are plenty of men who can't turn fear to strength. It doesn't make you a lesser person, it makes you human. For what it's worth.

As for the scumbag who came into your home to disgust and terrorize you, there is no fire hot enough for him.

-- Mal

almost got over taken by a predator in a situation that twenty years ago would not have been threatening.

Don't trust every man. We men are in a new normal too: I do not expect to be trusted at face value and I have absolutely no problem with that. We got here because of men.

I don't know how we get to reset it, but that lack of trust is here and its here for good reason.

Nothing about this situation is new. This has been the way women have always lived.

Inappropriate is one thing, assault, rape, murder are others things all together. I think the violence against women has been increasing, don't you?

It was not that long ago meter readers came into houses with only a knock to go into basements to read meters. They'd knock, yell, "Meter reader!" and go down stairs, doors were not locked back then.

There's a famous Reader's Digest joke about it:

A house wife washing clothes in her robe and curlers decided to put the robe in the wash, too, and stood there clinking her curlers on the heater duct - so she put her son's football helmit on and went on with the wash in underwear and helmet. From behind her came the voice of the meter reader: "I don't know what team you're on, lady, but I sure hope you win."

These are not those days. Maybe its good in some ways they're gone even if there had been no crime involved, too. But the biggest, most of the reason they're gone is men abused the times and situations to predate on women.

Its one thing to be catcalled on the streets (still an assaultive behavior) but being murdered in one's own home over misogynistic gender dynamics is quite another.

I think more women are talking about it now, that's all. I can see how it would seem that way to men who haven't heard these stories before, though.

Before the internet, how would you have heard this story? A letter to the editor with this content would never have been printed. Since no actual crime occured, it woudln't have made the headlines.

But that doesn't mean it didn't happen a million other times in a million other places.

When I grew up in the 70s, we never heard of anything outside of the local viewing area.

This has been going on since the begining of time. The only difference now is that women talk about it on the internet, something that couldn't have happened in previous eras.

there is nothing new about men treating women like sex objects. Similar scenarios as described have happened to me numerous times throughout my lifetime.

Thank you for sharing we can all, men and women, learn lessons from stories like this about guys that act like assholes and what to do in those situations. Please don't be ashamed for giving someone the benefit of the doubt or for feeling scared when they took advantage.

This is an outrage.

There are no words.

Gratitude to you for sharing it.

Old white guy here, raised to protect those smaller than me. The women in my life have been affected by the threats, words and actions of these scum. These scum that is, who have now been encouraged and enabled by the trash in the White House. The pendulum will swing the other way, soon I hope, but regardless, I and the men I associate will do whatever's necessary to protect those in our little corner of the world. And we have done so.

Thanks for posting; your courage, and that shown by Dr. Ford and so many others, provides hope and a wonderful example to others who may not have spoken out yet.

Stick with you own guidelines, no exceptions.

If you haven't read the gift of fear by Gavin DeBecker, you should. All women should.

I worked 911 for 8 years. I'm aware on how something so light in life, can turn on a dime.

Do you like doggies? Even those tiny yappa ones? Something to consider.

If you have any questions, on security issues that you would like addressed in private. I'm here.

Dogs are a wonderful deterrent.

Right?

At the top of the OP is the citation of where it came from. It is from a Twitter post by SaraSuze @tragedythyme

I tried pointing it out at about reply #7, but, by then it had already snowballed.

I missed it too until DUer cwydro pointed it out to me.

Meanwhile, another poster was attacked for simply commenting.

Then he deleted his comments, as he should have.

Then you go on a tear in the thread pointing out repeatedly how this never happened to the OP and ruminating about how "Funny" it was that she had not engaged in the discussion and how there was a "term" for that.

Turns out she spent the day doing something much more constructive than any of us. AND, what actually happened to her was much worse than described in the OP.

Are you going to apologize to jodymarie aimee?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=11261205

The point of this thread, which you obviously missed, is the ridiculous, humiliating, debilitating lengths women must go through on a daily basis to avoid being sexually assaulted.

Thanks for the info. Don't use Twitter much.

However, it's still a scary story and be careful out there DU'ers.

No matter how "careful" we are, it happens.

Here's the twitter link if you want to comment directly:

Link to tweet

... how do you know that the two accounts aren't the same person? I use different aliases on different boards.

-- Mal

After a particularly-disturbing event in my life, I read this book. It opened my eyes to take in things I have always dismissed as being borderline-paranoid. I instantly saw myself and my intuitions in a very different light. And I found strength in his book, not weakness in my thoughts.


One point that DeBecker makes is this - and I urge everyone to take it to heart - Fear gets a bad rap.

You did turn your fear to strength. You moved a dryer up the stairs BY YOURSELF to get to safety. You got past him and to the phone. You also proved to that asshole that you were pretty damn strong. So, while he was stupid enough to come back while he was drunk, I’m fairly certain he isn’t so stupid while sober.

I’m sorry you went through this, just please don’t let him change the way you feel about yourself.

She did a great job getting out of a bad situation.

her brain.

This just burns me like a redhot rage - as a male (#not-a-rapist) I cannot understand the profound rot and weakness in these guys.
They make me want to vomit.

to only allow someone in your home while your husband was there. Just stick with what is right for you. Another buyer will come along.

I am a man and I put music CDs on craigslist to sell. A guy called and wanted to come see them. We agreed on the time but he kept calling for directions on his way. After the 4th call for directions he said he was at a phone booth as he didn't have a cell phone.

After that little tidbit of info my first mind was the sale was off for me as if he couldn't afford a cell phone how the hell was he going to pay for my hundreds of CDs? My immediate thought was this guy, whoever he was, just wanted to get in my house for no good.

I had already given him my address but I decided no way was I going to let him in. I didn't. I did get a call from my neighbor saying there was a guy at my outer gate who asked her to call me. I explained to her what was up and that I did trust him. The guy eventually left.

When suspicions are up, follow your first mind.

Even hiring people you take a chance.
Scary times.

I know it well, unfortunately.

Hugs to you and stay strong - we all have to remember that movies aren't realistic and that behaving the way movie heroines do could very well escalate a dangerous situation and make the outcome much, much worse. Instead, we've developed survival skills that might not be exciting, but they are effective.

Stay safe, please.

This guy used the weight of the dryer to threaten you and then verbally abused you.
Don't be hard on yourself at all about not being the person you thought you would be during a threat to your physical safety. Even people who have a lot of training are surprised. We all have such a well of denial and superstition about what we will do/feel if we are raped/assaulted, etc.. People who tell you that should have done this or that are people who have never experienced a threat under your circumstances. It's like snapping your fingers to keep the tigers away. It's called denial, and we all have it until we don't, and then it is usually PTSD if the stress/trauma is severe enough. The human brain likes to believe it has a rational for not being at risk, which is a false narrative. As a rape survivor I felt culpable because I did not avoid being raped, and I had all these judgments, none of them positive. I realized that the lies we absorb and internalize are one of the biggest obstacles to overcome when we are coping with assault. One of the most radical is the difference from what we identified/believed about ourselves, our place in our community/family, and how we see ourselves after.We just don't realize how insidious and destructive internalized lies can be until the denial crumbles and we realize that safety is relative to the moment. Different reality. And it will take some time, and healing to get your feet under you in this new dimension. It is just like the old one, only without the denial.
It does not help that family members/loved ones still harbor denial that if you had just done XYZ, it would have been better. Forgive them. They just don't understand the denial mechanism and that such thinking is a false security against being at risk.
I sometimes get flack because of my insistence on safety precautions when we are at home and work areas. Too bad. My body, my risk. And if people can't understand that then they are in denial. Men get attacked too.
I hope the police take this seriously because this guy sounds like a real creepy abusive perp. And I will bet he has tried that before. Kudos to you for making it through such an awful experience. That took guts.

I want to contradict you there. You managed to get out of that dodgy situation intact. The emotions and fear you're feeling now are the result of a minor PTSD attack. This was traumatic for you psychologically. And it should have been. This man's intent was made clear more after the fact than while you found yourself immediately in the moment. His subsequent attempts to reenter your home have proved beyond any reasonable doubt that he had ill intent from the beginning.

And crossing your fingers.

It enrages me that scumbag men need to feel big and they use women to do it. I’m fantasizing how I’d have a big ol pipe wrench in my hand, asking that creep, “what was that again, sonny boy??” I think a lot of us women have these awesome power fantasies...But really I don’t know what I’d do. Especially on the wrong side of a washing machine.

Utter POS, and I’m sorry it happened to you. Glad he didn’t go any farther against you!

Millions of women live alone and often have to rely on men to do repairs or work during the day when they’re alone. While this situation can hapoen to anyone, you tried to have your husband be available at the time. Singles, widows, and divorced women do not have this option and their male friends may not often be available when needed. What I would like to see is a service paid for by local taxes that allows women to have an off-duty cop to be in their homes when they need to schedule this type of transaction. I’m not talking about regular business transactions where you have work done by a licensed business that screens its employees. But when you need to sell something on a site like Craigslist or Letgo or any other site like this, it would be comforting to be able to have potential buyers see a cop in your home. Many women donate items to charities when they actually could use the money from selling them because of safety concerns. If a local police force is too small to provide this service, then perhaps they could screen a few interested men who are safe and wouldn’t mind having a bit of extra money.

It's a terrible thing to be made to feel like that, and it is another pink tax upon us. Why? Because we take a risk for selling big items online. I had a washing machine to get rid of, and I didn't want it in a landfill. I wanted to sell it for $75, but didn't want strangers in my home. By calling an appliance repairman and offering it for free, I was able to get rid of it. I doubted he would pay me for it without checking it out completely in my home.

Like how women pay more for upper story apartments because they won't live on the ground floor. Or how many networking opportunities we don't engage in because they might not be safe. And on top of it, we still make less money. And some men STILL like to mansplain to us what we should have done differently when something bad happens.

of Ted Bundy to my daughters. How an attractive man would use crutches and slings to pray on womens better nature. How he would put his arm in a sling at the grocery store parking lot and fumble to get his groceries in the car asking unsuspecting and trusting young women for help. He would then kidnap and well we all know the horrible things he did to his victims. Women must assume the worst of all men when they are alone or are in vulnerable situations. Yes the vast majority of men are good and harmless, but there are male predators out there and unfortunately you must be on guard at all times. It is a sad but women are really never safe and your story is a great remainder to others of what not to do. I will share your story with my daughters and wife. Thank you for telling it, you may have saved lives.

I watched a very informative show. People that prey on kids/women are often referred to as monsters. When a well dressed male approaches them with whatever excuse they give to get the victim close enough to grab and abduct they don't run or walk away. That is what they rely on to victimize.


From that day forward I vowed I would teach my kids that "bad people" do not look like the villains they see on TV. They look like everyday normal people.

I hope the cops stay on his tail--this is NOT the first time he's done this. Your story needs to be heard more widely.

I'm trying to give away a table and chairs on Letgo right now, but I'm doing it out of the warehouse where I work and this is just because of what you just went through. I've sold things on Craig's list as well, but I only do that sort of thing from where I work. I don't want any of these creeps stopping by and messing with my wife. I do have a couple of big dogs at home, but I don't want any of them having to put up with this sort of crap either. I remember years ago right after my wife and I got married. We had two old clunkers that we were driving around. She called me at midnight one night and said the minivan had broken down on the side of the road. I started to go get my keys and head out to pick her up, when it hit me like a ton of bricks...OMG, my wife is broken down on the side of the road! I high tailed it over to where she was as fast as I could. As a young guy I had broken down all over the place and never really thought much about it. No one really ever messed with me. Anyway, the very next day I went out and bought a new car. We really couldn't afford it at the time, but I didn't care. I would pay all the money in the world to keep my wife out of harm's way! There are so many creepy guys out there. You just can't trust anyone anymore. Not even if they happen to be sitting on the Supreme Court.

Small female here and hubby gets home late from work.
Usually I give stuff away for free, but if I wanted payment I'd do it over the phone with a credit card.

That's a great idea though! I've had to learn a lot about what women go through over the years. I used to work in bars, playing in bands, or running sound for other bands. I never realized how women have to keep their eyes on their drinks until someone spiked my wife's drink. I was playing in the band and she only had one drink. She got so sick when I got her home. I thought maybe she had a few too many as I wasn't watching what she was drinking. I didn't even know until she told me the next day. Had I known I would have taken her straight to the hospital. Whatever they put in her drink she got over though. She just had a bad hangover.

Many times.
And, the strange thing is that I never thought that I should get mad about it and enraged, until recently. It was so baked into my life that I just accept it as the way things are.
Living with fear isn't easy, and I'm the "freeze in the face of terror" kind also (although I have those fantasies where I whoop ass).
I did arm myself with pepper spray recently, and I suggest you do that too. It's a small thing, but I definitely feel better carrying it.

While there are variations between the sexes in being victims in certain types of violent crime, such as women are far more likely to be a victim of sexually assault while men are far more likely to be a victim of murder, overall, the number of men who are victims of all types of violent crime in any given year is similar to the number of women who are victim of violent crime in those same years.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/423245/us-violent-crime-victims-by-gender/

While I'm a tall male, I have a gun and a CPL from the state. I'm taking steps to make the master bedroom and master bathroom into safe rooms. I'm not doing this for shits and giggles.

That seems a scary way to live.

I’m a small woman who lives alone on a pretty large piece of land.

No safe room lol.

When out at night, I park at well lit areas. No fear of someone hiding in nearby shadows. I lock the doors at night so no fear of someone just walking in without making considerable noise. At home, I park the car in a well lit area of the driveway, lock it and keep the keys in the office so there is little fear of someone stealing it. When the little grandkids stay over, we occasionally practice fire drills so there is little fear that they will know what to do if there ever is a real fire. I keep several days of food and water on hand so there is no fear of wondering what to drink or eat when a bad ass blizzard rolls in and shuts down the roads and knock out the electricity.

Being prepared is not living in fear. It lessens fear.

Seriously though, what does either have to do with the sex of the victims?

You claim the only difference is that women tend to be sexually assaulted while men tend to be murdered.

But there is simply not the same level of culpability. As the stats on crime show, men are the vast majority of the perpetrators of violent crime, and women (and other men) are their victims.

Can you provide a link to any site that states that the number of women who are victims of violent crime is much greater then the number of men who are victims of such or vice versa? I don't think you'll be able to.

And as men commit most of the crimes, don't you think that both men and women ought to take similar steps to avoid being victims of violent crime?

Some may get pepper spray or a tazer. Some folks take martial arts classes.

The ones that are reported are just the tip of the iceberg, and that has been shown. Has 1 in 3 or 4 men been sexually abused? Who gets sexually harassed at work? Who is the most dangerous to a pregnant woman? The idea that men and women are victimized equally is simply not true.

Please provide a link to any such post I made anywhere here in DU at any time.

How is that an appropriate response to the OP?

At no point in this thread did I lecture the OP on what she should have done or what she should do. Nor did i do such a thing to anyone else. I only stated what I did and am doing.

Having a gun in the house is dangerous for women and is not responsive to the OP, so why the fuck could you not restrain yourself from talking about your GOD DAMNED GUN?

I said it once but you keep on going on about it. Looking at this thread, I'm hard pressed to find a post of yours that's responsive to the OP.

Here is my reponse to the OP:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=11259250

The events described did not happen to the OP herself.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=11259363

The OP did not have that experience.

I think the OP could have been a wee bit more forthcoming.

The link was not obvious (imo, and obviously many missed it.)

The actual author could have been made more clear but I'm not going to use that as an excuse for not carefully reading it.

I WAS A RAPE VICTIM 4 SEPARATE TIMES BY 4 DIFFERENT MEN..my story....

I posted an OP early this morning. It was powerful to me and I wanted to share it. Clearly giving the author in the first line. Then I went to DEM HQ to work 2 shifts. I came home and checked in on DU and found that DU was receptive to this story. However, some mistakenly thought I was the lady with the dryer. I don't usually comment on comments. Nor do I live on blogs...I do have a life and that life now is canvassing and working at DEM HQ. I post the OP and that is that. However my pal alerted me to the fact that some posters were spitting and spatting that I was some kind of charlatan. I would like to share the letter I published in our local paper the day before the HEARINGS. MY story with MY name on it. I am no stranger to these issues...Jody Marie Aimee Hurrish. In solidarity with all the wonderful people on DU.



I WAS A RAPE VICTIM 4 SEPARATE TIMES BY 4 DIFFERENT MEN

Between 1969 and 1971, I was a rape victim four separate times by four different men. I knew only one of them tangentally as a roadie for a local band. I would have never told anyone, least of all my parents. They would have yelled at ME. I have a photographic memory, but I could not tell you today the address of the house, the color of the room, the name of the guy, what I may or may not have ingested, etc.

So none of this is off kilter, you tend to block bad events. Rico Suave Trump was nuts when he tweeted Professor Ford's "loving parents should have reported their daughter's assault to the FBI 35 years ago". Thereby, discounting it.

I want nobody's sympathy, trigger schmigger...It is almost 50 years ago. I am only telling you facts. You didn't tell the cops, your Mom and Dad, and since Patty Hearst didn't live in our house, we didn't have the FBI's phone number on our fridge.

I wrote a letter about it eight years ago for a local paper, the first time I told anyone. The editor said I was brave. No, I was honest. It was time, it was a letter regarding womens' rights, and I had something to contribute. Consider this contribution #2.

Last edited Tue Oct 9, 2018, 09:51 PM - Edit history (3)

The point I made applied REGARDLESS of whether the DUer was the author or not:

choices, which are entirely his business.

I think I am quite clear about why I disagree with him.

I’m not defending him; I don’t think he needs defending. Just curious at your reaction.

So what if the OP is not engaging with posters in this thread. Did it ever occur to you that this is a difficult subject for survivirs to engage with people about?

I don't see any reason for your laughter. I don't find humor in this discussion of attempted sexual assault. Nor am I impressed by people who do.

I would think if she posted something here, she intended discussion.

There used to be a term for OPs that were posted with no further input by the original poster.

The point of this thread is the ridiculous, humiliating, debilitating lengths women must go through on a daily basis to avoid being sexually assaulted. 

You were commiserating with the OP because you thought the event happened to her.

Your comment:
"Thank you for sharing your harrowing ecperience with that perv."

How do you thank someone who isn't here?

And OP has disappeared from the thread.