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MrScorpio

(73,631 posts)
Wed Oct 10, 2018, 05:19 PM Oct 2018

Should we fight dirty to win?

Why this political scientist thinks the Democrats have to fight dirty
“The Republicans are behaving like a party that believes it will never be held accountable.”
By Sean Illing@seanillingsean.illing@vox.com Updated Oct 7, 2018, 9:37am EDT

In September 2016, an anonymous conservative writer published an essay called “The Flight 93 Election.”

The title was a reference to the one hijacked flight on 9/11 that didn’t reach its destination because passengers overwhelmed the hijackers and brought the plane down.

The logic of the essay was simple enough: The prospect of a Hillary Clinton presidency was so positively ruinous that conservatives had no choice but to support Donald Trump — no matter how awful or incompetent he appeared to be. The stakes were simply too high.

Until now, there was no left-wing equivalent to the “Flight 93” essay, no rallying cry that urged Democrats and liberals to do whatever is necessary to win. But David Faris’s new book, It’s Time to Fight Dirty, is the closest anyone has come so far.

Faris, a political scientist at Roosevelt University, argues that the Democratic Party must recognize that Republicans aren’t engaged in a policy fight; instead, they’re waging a “procedural war.”

What he means is that Republicans have spent the past two decades exploiting the vagueness of the Constitution to create structural advantages for their side — passing discriminatory voter ID laws, using the census to gerrymander districts, blocking Democratic Supreme Court nominees, and so on.

Faris writes Democrats have to recognize this reality and act accordingly, especially now that the Republicans are poised to conquer the Supreme Court for a generation. I reached out to him to find out what, exactly, he has in mind.

A lightly edited transcript of our conversation follows.

Sean Illing
Your book feels like the left-wing equivalent of the “Flight 93” essay — an urgent Democratic call to arms. Is that how you see it?

David Faris
Yeah, I think so. We’re at a very dangerous moment in American history. There’s been a massive erosion of trust in public institutions and in the broader electoral process. The Trump administration has been disastrously disruptive to the norms of our political culture.

We’re also in a very dangerous moment for the planet, and I worry that we’re sleepwalking into a series of crises that we’ll have to deal with for a very long time, that our kids will have to deal with for a very long time. So yes, I am sort of sounding the alarm, and I think Democrats have to recognize the urgency of the moment and act accordingly.

Am I in “charge the cockpit or die” mode? I don’t know, but I do think our predicament justifies some serious procedural hardball from the Democrats.

Sean Illing
Well, let’s talk about the Democrats. There are roughly three competing visions within the party about how to move forward: 1) Go the way of Bernie Sanders and appeal to working-class voters with progressive policy ideas; 2) go the centrist route in a bid to grab moderate, suburban independents and Republicans who might have voted for Trump but can be persuaded to jump ship; or 3) double down on the 2008 and 2012 strategies and hope to recreate the Obama coalition of women, minorities, and young people.

You say all these are nonstarters — why?

David Faris
I think Democrats should have this debate, but my point is that no policy platform is going to win three or four consecutive national elections for Democrats because we know policy isn’t what decides elections; that’s not how most voters make decisions.


https://www.vox.com/2018/5/1/17258866/democratic-party-supreme-court-republicans-trump-election

8 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
We should fight dirty
8 (100%)
We should not fight dirty
0 (0%)
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12 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Should we fight dirty to win? (Original Post) MrScorpio Oct 2018 OP
Hell yes, cubed irisblue Oct 2018 #1
Yes...no nail clippers to the fight.. HipChick Oct 2018 #2
Didn't Flight 93 crash into the ground ZZenith Oct 2018 #3
NO, speak TRUTH (and let them think it's dirty.) elleng Oct 2018 #4
Yes. If you define the truth as dirty, then I'm all for it TexasBushwhacker Oct 2018 #9
When you are in the trenches you gotta expect to get dirty randr Oct 2018 #5
Stupid People Rizen Oct 2018 #6
We have tried the other way and it has never worked. smirkymonkey Oct 2018 #7
It took long enough for Dems to finally get the necessity of BigmanPigman Oct 2018 #8
If you want to win, you play to win.. beachbum bob Oct 2018 #10
I'm sorry but awesomerwb1 Oct 2018 #11
Fight dirty... ADX Oct 2018 #12

TexasBushwhacker

(20,196 posts)
9. Yes. If you define the truth as dirty, then I'm all for it
Wed Oct 10, 2018, 05:44 PM
Oct 2018

If it includes lying, cheating, voter suppression and colluding with foreign governments, no thanks.

randr

(12,412 posts)
5. When you are in the trenches you gotta expect to get dirty
Wed Oct 10, 2018, 05:30 PM
Oct 2018

For instance:
Maxine Walters response to Trump whining about "mobs" was just too polite
Correct response:
We will pit our mobs against your mobs any day you fucking weenie!
Mobs, you want mobs?, you ain't seen nothing yet.
Minority losers are afraid of American protestors, boo fuckin hoo.

Rizen

(708 posts)
6. Stupid People
Wed Oct 10, 2018, 05:35 PM
Oct 2018

The US is full of them. They don't understand facts or anything not presented like a Pro Wrestling soap opera. We need to fight dirty to reach them. Republicans can make up stupid scandals that end in no convictions but still hurt Democrats, why can't we? I'm not saying do anything illegal but call them out for their "war on women" and being traitors. We need strong talking points the average garden vegetable (prospective voter) can rally behind.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
7. We have tried the other way and it has never worked.
Wed Oct 10, 2018, 05:39 PM
Oct 2018

They just walk all over us. We need to beat them at their own game.

BigmanPigman

(51,608 posts)
8. It took long enough for Dems to finally get the necessity of
Wed Oct 10, 2018, 05:40 PM
Oct 2018

adopting this approach. I have seen the change in opinion slightly in the media from our Dem politicians but more so here on DU. I asked the same question many times and usually got the "No, we shouldn't stoop to their level" reply more than "Yes, fight fire with fire" approach to deal with the GOP.

awesomerwb1

(4,268 posts)
11. I'm sorry but
Wed Oct 10, 2018, 05:50 PM
Oct 2018

F*CK yes.

These f-ers are going to destroy the planet. The damage to the environment may be irreversible when these guys are done if we keep doing the "when they go low we go high" BS and keep losing elections.

What do you moral purity guys want? 7/8 ultra right wing supreme court "justices"? Children in cages, or snatched and stolen from their parents and put up for adoption? Less women rights? The destruction of the world's fauna and flora? More devastation from storms, fires, etc etc. F that. Enough is enough.

Russiapublicans don't give a crap. Cheating, lying, usurping rights...that's their badge of honor. And they'll keep doing as long as they can get away with it. Or we let them .

Enough

 

ADX

(1,622 posts)
12. Fight dirty...
Wed Oct 10, 2018, 06:00 PM
Oct 2018

...As we used to say in the Marine Corps,"The only unfair fight is the one you lose..."

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