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orangecrush

(19,617 posts)
Sat Oct 13, 2018, 10:40 AM Oct 2018

If the incarcerated in this country were counted as unemployed

I wonder what those great job numbers would look like?


"In October 2013, the incarceration rate of the United States of America was the highest in the world, at 716 per 100,000 of the national population. While the United States represents about 4.4 percent of the world's population, it houses around 22 percent of the world's prisoners.
United States incarceration rate" - Wikipedia

The incarceration rate in the U.S. began to,skyrocket under Reagan, and hasn't stopped since.

"Land of the free" my ass.



?w=840


28 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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If the incarcerated in this country were counted as unemployed (Original Post) orangecrush Oct 2018 OP
Good question. What's the answer? Beakybird Oct 2018 #1
Add about 2.5 million to the unemployed orangecrush Oct 2018 #2
Reply #6 answers your question orangecrush Oct 2018 #17
many are employed beachbum bob Oct 2018 #3
True. Prisoners have jobs on the inside Mr. Big Oct 2018 #4
Jobs in prison include going to educational programs janterry Oct 2018 #28
Slave labor is not employment. WhiskeyGrinder Oct 2018 #9
they get paid 50 cents an hour, about what the wealthy would love to see the rest of us get paid beachbum bob Oct 2018 #10
Truth. orangecrush Oct 2018 #16
Calling it by its true name. orangecrush Oct 2018 #14
I love when rightwing talk about class warfare, we lost that war decades ago beachbum bob Oct 2018 #19
Great post! orangecrush Oct 2018 #20
I have had years of practice in debating the fallacies of republicans. beachbum bob Oct 2018 #21
... orangecrush Oct 2018 #22
Let's go ahead and add pintobean Oct 2018 #5
The unemployment rate is BY DEFINITION based on the working age population. nt JayhawkSD Oct 2018 #7
It's also based on those able and willing to work. pintobean Oct 2018 #8
Sure they could. Voltaire2 Oct 2018 #11
Oh, I think there are darn good reasons pintobean Oct 2018 #15
Actually there aren't. Voltaire2 Oct 2018 #18
Most people in prisons orangecrush Oct 2018 #23
My point is orangecrush Oct 2018 #12
Sort of, but not entirely Recursion Oct 2018 #26
It would raise the rate to 5.1% JayhawkSD Oct 2018 #6
Thank you orangecrush Oct 2018 #13
People who live in "institutions" are excluded. Mariana Oct 2018 #27
Well, I think that the incarceration rate is damning in and of itself. JayhawkSD Oct 2018 #24
Well said. orangecrush Oct 2018 #25

orangecrush

(19,617 posts)
2. Add about 2.5 million to the unemployed
Sat Oct 13, 2018, 10:47 AM
Oct 2018


possibly more, as these are 2013 figures, and you get an idea.



According to the US Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS), 2,220,300 adults were incarcerated in US federal and state prisons, and county jails in 2013 – about 0.91% of adults (1 in 110) in the U.S. resident population. Additionally, 4,751,400 adults in 2013 (1 in 51) were on probation or on parole.
Incarceration in the United States - ...

orangecrush

(19,617 posts)
17. Reply #6 answers your question
Sat Oct 13, 2018, 02:58 PM
Oct 2018

Jayhawk6 figured it out.

My point is that mass incarceration helps "hide" the disparity of wealth.
 

Mr. Big

(45 posts)
4. True. Prisoners have jobs on the inside
Sat Oct 13, 2018, 11:09 AM
Oct 2018

Its shit pay but it's still work. Experienced that for 90 days.

 

janterry

(4,429 posts)
28. Jobs in prison include going to educational programs
Sun Oct 14, 2018, 11:12 AM
Oct 2018

- such as working on your GED or attending substance abuse treatment. Every inmate is required to have some kind of 'job' (this can be understood as scheduled activity) during the day.

Some involve financial compensation - most jobs don't. And, as someone who has worked in the prisons - at least in FL - those physical jobs are often silly (50 men get called up to the front for a job called 'inside grounds' - 2 or 3 get picked. The rest spend ALL day in the dorm. The 2-3 walk around and weed some of the higher weeds - I mean pluck them, this is not traditional weeding - for 1 hour.)

I know folks are angry about the paid jobs in prison. There are some - albeit only a few - positions that require real labor that are, as you note, paid at pennies on the dollar.

But the reality of prison is that the bigger problem is that in prison most folks sit on their bunks, all day, every day.

Men and women who are incarcerated need programming throughout the day. That takes significant $.

 

beachbum bob

(10,437 posts)
19. I love when rightwing talk about class warfare, we lost that war decades ago
Sat Oct 13, 2018, 03:23 PM
Oct 2018

and now the 99% are scrambling for crumbs. The firewall protecting the rich white upper 1% is tenuous as we still have a vote and their tactic of breeding discord between blacks and whites, men vs women, between the middle class and underclass is teetering. The thought of a blue wave 2018, 2020, 2022 has them for the first time feeling fear. The only trick left to play, is manipulating elections and voting rights.... and that should be our concern. Why we need to take back state govt especially the Secretary of State office which have dominum over voting.

 

pintobean

(18,101 posts)
5. Let's go ahead and add
Sat Oct 13, 2018, 11:16 AM
Oct 2018

children and retired adults, while we're at it...
really get that percentage up.

 

pintobean

(18,101 posts)
8. It's also based on those able and willing to work.
Sat Oct 13, 2018, 11:28 AM
Oct 2018

One is unable to work at Home Depot, or the car wash from inside a prison.

I was intentionally using a ridiculous example.

Voltaire2

(13,154 posts)
18. Actually there aren't.
Sat Oct 13, 2018, 03:06 PM
Oct 2018

but I’m sure you are convinced that our vast prison population is filled with people, probably people you would describe as ‘animals’, who would rape and pillage given any chance to do so.

orangecrush

(19,617 posts)
23. Most people in prisons
Sat Oct 13, 2018, 09:02 PM
Oct 2018

are there via substance abuse and/or mental health problems that went unaddressed.

Not that poverty and alienation can make people crazy, of course.

orangecrush

(19,617 posts)
12. My point is
Sat Oct 13, 2018, 02:52 PM
Oct 2018

That we incarcerate more people than any country in earth because we can't provide jobs, health care and decent housing to a large part of the population as it is, because of the disparity of wealth is at a record high.

Which mirrors the incarceration statistics.

It is a way of "hiding" part of the population, who by some strange coincidence are mostly minorities. Not that there's any such thing as INSTITUTIONALIZED RACISM, of course.

(sarcasm added.)

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
26. Sort of, but not entirely
Sun Oct 14, 2018, 11:06 AM
Oct 2018

You have to be over 16, but there's not actually an upper age limit. If an 80-year-old answered the survey that he was out of work but looking for work and would accept a job offer, that would count as "unemployed".

 

JayhawkSD

(3,163 posts)
6. It would raise the rate to 5.1%
Sat Oct 13, 2018, 11:19 AM
Oct 2018

There are currently 161 million in the work force, of whom 5.9 million are unemployed, giving the current rate of 3.6% unemployment.

Adding 2.5 million to the ranks of unemployed would raise the work force to 163.5 million and unemployed to 8.4 million, creating an unemployment rate of 5.1%

I'm assuming that prisoners are not included as being in the work force. If they are then the numbers would be 161 million and 8.4 million respectfully, and there would be a 5.2% unemployment rate.

What's actually shocking is the 161 million in the work force. The BLS claims the total population of the US in 2018 as 258.3 million, and the work force as 162 million, for a percentage of merely 62% of the total population in the workforce. Since the total population of the US is over 310 million, I think their wording is a bit off, and they mean that the working age population is 258 million, but...

orangecrush

(19,617 posts)
13. Thank you
Sat Oct 13, 2018, 02:55 PM
Oct 2018


for doing the pencilwork!


My opinion is that mass incarceration helps "hide" the disparity of wealth in this country.

Out of sight, our of mind, and not counted in the statistics.

Mariana

(14,860 posts)
27. People who live in "institutions" are excluded.
Sun Oct 14, 2018, 11:11 AM
Oct 2018

"Institutions" would include prisons, hospitals, nursing homes, and so on.

 

JayhawkSD

(3,163 posts)
24. Well, I think that the incarceration rate is damning in and of itself.
Sun Oct 14, 2018, 01:06 AM
Oct 2018

We incarcerate a higher percentage of our population than do dictatorship nation, totalitarian nations, nations undergoing civil war...

We incarcerate a higher rate of our population than nations which make no pretense of democracy.

That is a horrible and utterly damning fact all by itself. It doesn't need any sophomoric issues like that it is "hiding inequality" or "artificially lowering unemployment rates." We are a democratic nation which imprisons its people at a rate which would embarrass Idi Amin, and we don't even bother to mention it, let alone apologize for it.

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