Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,835 posts)
Fri Oct 19, 2018, 11:18 PM Oct 2018

Here's an interesting body language analysis of Trump commenting on Khashoggi.

The analyst believes he's lying and that he knows about or has actually seen audio and/or video of the murder. I don't know whether this sort of thing is accurate or junk science, but it's certainly intriguing.

Summary: President Trump's nonverbal and paralanguage behavior displayed in this video indicates that, with extremely high probability, the United States has acquired (on or before 17 October 2018), at least in part, audio and/or video of Jamal Khashoggi's torture and murder. Moreover, Donald Trump has heard and/or seen it, and, contrary to his statement, the President is covering for the Saudis.
https://www.bodylanguagesuccess.com/search?q=Trump&max-results=20&by-date=true
32 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Here's an interesting body language analysis of Trump commenting on Khashoggi. (Original Post) The Velveteen Ocelot Oct 2018 OP
That's intriguing leftstreet Oct 2018 #1
It's NOT junk science. Haggis for Breakfast Oct 2018 #6
That's good to know. It seems pretty persuasive but I'm always a little cautious, The Velveteen Ocelot Oct 2018 #9
Keeping an open mind Haggis for Breakfast Oct 2018 #11
Remember graphology, hand writing analysis? confirmation bias kiri Oct 2018 #22
KR! Cha Oct 2018 #2
Trump, No Doubt, Enjoys Torture Porn dlk Oct 2018 #3
With the crossed arms,especially drawn tight like the one photo. Wellstone ruled Oct 2018 #4
With the very frequent crossed arms, it is as if he is trying to hold himself together. TryLogic Oct 2018 #17
Normally,persons with crossed arms are saying,do not bother me. Wellstone ruled Oct 2018 #20
There's also the sniffling... Wounded Bear Oct 2018 #5
Good call, Wounded Bear. Haggis for Breakfast Oct 2018 #7
I think his sniffles mercuryblues Oct 2018 #31
Also, his lips were moving... world wide wally Oct 2018 #8
Hahaha good one not fooled Oct 2018 #10
We don't need a body language expert, watoos Oct 2018 #12
You're appalled and outraged at the murder of a journalist, as you should be, The Velveteen Ocelot Oct 2018 #13
There are plenty of good people in the media but, watoos Oct 2018 #21
Nuance... Caliman73 Oct 2018 #24
I thought he hides his hands that way so that their small size BigmanPigman Oct 2018 #14
Most of the time he waves his tiny hands around, which is one of the many reasons The Velveteen Ocelot Oct 2018 #15
I read he is well aware of their small proportion BigmanPigman Oct 2018 #19
This type of observation is not junk science. But it is not hard science like a physical science. TryLogic Oct 2018 #16
What this group does is watch people closely over time so they can establish The Velveteen Ocelot Oct 2018 #18
great! but it take a reasoning human to realize he's a liar, cheat, and a worthless piece of shit Demonaut Oct 2018 #23
He not only folds his arms across his chest, he hunches... 3catwoman3 Oct 2018 #25
That's well and good but I want to know if he knew beforehand... brush Oct 2018 #26
Why MFM008 Oct 2018 #28
There's an easier and foolproof way of telling when Trump is lying -- LastLiberal in PalmSprings Oct 2018 #27
he always looks like that cause he knows nothing & is pulling everything from his ass. pansypoo53219 Oct 2018 #29
He is torturing, on a daily basis, mostly mental torture. SammyWinstonJack Oct 2018 #32
That's Dirty Donny*s classique LIE posture Achilleaze Oct 2018 #30

leftstreet

(36,112 posts)
1. That's intriguing
Fri Oct 19, 2018, 11:30 PM
Oct 2018

I'm like you, not sure if it's 'junk science,' but that was compelling

Thanks for posting this

Haggis for Breakfast

(6,831 posts)
6. It's NOT junk science.
Fri Oct 19, 2018, 11:59 PM
Oct 2018

It's the study of micro-expression, pioneered by Dr. Paul Ekman, a clinical psychologist, who spent his career defining body language and facial expressions. Ekman was an expert on lie detection.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,835 posts)
9. That's good to know. It seems pretty persuasive but I'm always a little cautious,
Sat Oct 20, 2018, 12:13 AM
Oct 2018

especially when something supports what I already believe - I try to be aware of my own confirmation bias and not be too gullible.

kiri

(796 posts)
22. Remember graphology, hand writing analysis? confirmation bias
Sat Oct 20, 2018, 01:08 AM
Oct 2018

Remember graphology, hand writing analysis?
Phrenology---skull shape analysis?
Homeopathy--like counters like, or like cures like, or something, even when it is pure water.

In controlled tests, "graphologists" could not even discern males from females--in all age groups!

"Body language" is an appealing idea that we like to think is valid so we can gain an insight/advantage over others. There may be 10% validity; but then the 90%.....

You are 100% right about confirmation bias. It is very insidious, and there are no vaccines against it.

dlk

(11,575 posts)
3. Trump, No Doubt, Enjoys Torture Porn
Fri Oct 19, 2018, 11:33 PM
Oct 2018

He has a definite sadistic streak, just like his little buddy Kim Jong Un.

 

Wellstone ruled

(34,661 posts)
4. With the crossed arms,especially drawn tight like the one photo.
Fri Oct 19, 2018, 11:54 PM
Oct 2018

tells one just how insecure and uncaring he is. He appears to be friggin afraid of not telling the same lie he said at one time before.

My guess is,Trump's lies are catching up will him,and he can not remember what he said five minutes ago.

TryLogic

(1,723 posts)
17. With the very frequent crossed arms, it is as if he is trying to hold himself together.
Sat Oct 20, 2018, 12:38 AM
Oct 2018

Trying to avoid a BS explosion, perhaps.

 

Wellstone ruled

(34,661 posts)
20. Normally,persons with crossed arms are saying,do not bother me.
Sat Oct 20, 2018, 12:48 AM
Oct 2018

Or go away,you are not wanted. But with this Sucker,it appears he is such a Bully and so insecure and his mental attitude so limited,that he is about to go full on nutso.

Wounded Bear

(58,704 posts)
5. There's also the sniffling...
Fri Oct 19, 2018, 11:56 PM
Oct 2018

I suspect it is more than just a coke habit. I think it is a tell for when he is lying.

Haggis for Breakfast

(6,831 posts)
7. Good call, Wounded Bear.
Sat Oct 20, 2018, 12:00 AM
Oct 2018

When people lie, their heart rate increases. When blood pressure elevates, all body functions follow suit, including breathing, thus the sniffing.

mercuryblues

(14,537 posts)
31. I think his sniffles
Sat Oct 20, 2018, 08:26 AM
Oct 2018

are a side effect of a medication he is on. As it comes and goes.

I'm not a Dr, but I believe he has some form of dementia. Shuffled walk, hunched over, confusion that comes and goes, sleep problems, losing concentration.

The medication to treat has a side effect of a runny nose.

The problem with the dementia diagnosis is that many of the symptoms are trump's normal behavior.

 

watoos

(7,142 posts)
12. We don't need a body language expert,
Sat Oct 20, 2018, 12:29 AM
Oct 2018

our intelligence agencies know damn well what happened and Trump has the report. Trump has refused to share our intelligence with the intelligence committees of Congress. Trump knew what happened within 48 hours at most.

If Congress covers for Trump on this murder we need to call them out, our Democrats in Congress need to call them out for what they are doing, aiding and abetting a murder.

God but I hate the corporate media.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,835 posts)
13. You're appalled and outraged at the murder of a journalist, as you should be,
Sat Oct 20, 2018, 12:31 AM
Oct 2018

but then you say you hate the media?

 

watoos

(7,142 posts)
21. There are plenty of good people in the media but,
Sat Oct 20, 2018, 12:51 AM
Oct 2018

the narrative, the talking points are controlled by corporate America. I watch Nicole Wallace, she strays from the narrative, as well as Rachel, but can't you see how the narrative is shifting from utter outrage at the murder of a journalist to, we need Saudi Arabia as a partner against terrorism, against Iran. No we don't.

Caliman73

(11,744 posts)
24. Nuance...
Sat Oct 20, 2018, 01:16 AM
Oct 2018

While the poster's statement is direct and not overly expressive, the word "corporate" is a relatively significant difference than just saying, "I hate the media".

The idea of "corporate" media is that while their are journalists that are interested and work toward uncovering facts and truth in order to hold to journalistic principles, the owners of the corporate media are not so much interested in that process, which is expensive, tends to be slow, and is fraught with difficulty. The "corporate" media is interested in profit which is made by ratings, which helps them to sell advertising, which is bought by other corporations, who have public image agendas, which interfere in the process of journalism at times.

Corporate media is about salacious detail that brings in eyeballs, but it is also about protecting the wealthy and powerful, especially if those wealthy and powerful people have stake in the corporation.

You can respect journalism, but dislike the "bottom line" mentality of corporate media which interferes with journalism.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,835 posts)
15. Most of the time he waves his tiny hands around, which is one of the many reasons
Sat Oct 20, 2018, 12:34 AM
Oct 2018

I hate watching him on TV. He's got a bunch of hand gestures he uses all the time - I don't think he thinks he has tiny hands. The folded arms is a classic sign of defensiveness, fear and anger.

BigmanPigman

(51,626 posts)
19. I read he is well aware of their small proportion
Sat Oct 20, 2018, 12:42 AM
Oct 2018

and hates them and that's why the hiding. He also hates his mouth...small. When Tiffany was born he said, "She doesn't have my mouth so that's a good thing". He spoke too soon, she ended up with the typical tRump DNA with a too small mouth and weak chin.

I have been aware of the folded arms/body language ever since I learned how to go on a job interview while in college and that always goes through my mind whenever I am at an important, professional type meeting.

TryLogic

(1,723 posts)
16. This type of observation is not junk science. But it is not hard science like a physical science.
Sat Oct 20, 2018, 12:35 AM
Oct 2018

A trained observer can read body language fairly well, but the results are "likely" rather than certain.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,835 posts)
18. What this group does is watch people closely over time so they can establish
Sat Oct 20, 2018, 12:40 AM
Oct 2018

some kind of a baseline for the reactions of each of the people they are observing. They are tracking not only typical behaviors of people in general but the repeated reactions of a particular person in similar circumstances. So even if it's not exact they seem to have established some criteria for a level of accuracy.

3catwoman3

(24,039 posts)
25. He not only folds his arms across his chest, he hunches...
Sat Oct 20, 2018, 01:22 AM
Oct 2018

..over, almost like he is going to collapse inwards on himself. He crosses those arms so tightly it looks like he is afraid he is going to burst open if he loosens his grip.

Some very tiny part of him must recognize himself for the lying POS that he is, even if he will never admit it.

brush

(53,841 posts)
26. That's well and good but I want to know if he knew beforehand...
Sat Oct 20, 2018, 01:29 AM
Oct 2018

and didn't warn Khashoggi?

I'm betting he did.

MFM008

(19,818 posts)
28. Why
Sat Oct 20, 2018, 03:39 AM
Oct 2018

The guy criticized him. He probably gave the Saudis a wink and a nod to do it.
I wouldnt be surprised of he listened to the tape like Hitler watched the executions of the bomb conspirators.

27. There's an easier and foolproof way of telling when Trump is lying --
Sat Oct 20, 2018, 01:39 AM
Oct 2018

his lips are moving.

I hope he's seen the video and that its images haunt him in his nightmares.

pansypoo53219

(20,993 posts)
29. he always looks like that cause he knows nothing & is pulling everything from his ass.
Sat Oct 20, 2018, 04:55 AM
Oct 2018

DEFENSIVE. pouty. he wishes he could torture too.

Achilleaze

(15,543 posts)
30. That's Dirty Donny*s classique LIE posture
Sat Oct 20, 2018, 05:28 AM
Oct 2018

And republicans trust this casino hustler? Sad.

* aka republican Draft-Dodger-in-Chief

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Here's an interesting bod...