General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsA good read from a friend in Germany.
I'll never quite understand how the right can be so ignorant to ignore history and how it can repeat itself, but this message from a good friend's friend nails it:
______________________________
This is from a lifelong friend. Heed the warnings:
I am currently in Germany, in Nürnberg. People here have been talking about the similarity even before this weeks horrific onslaught of bombings and this shooting. There are right wing groups here and elsewhere in Europe too. But in Germany it is not being openly led with glee and orchestrated by its leader as is ours. In fact, quite the opposite. As many of you know, my mother was born near here and her family lived in the area for several hundred years - until they were forced to flee in 1938. Only by the generosity of distant and wealthy New York relatives did they get to America. Other family members got to England - or perished. Because contrary to the myth of American greatness, the USA did not want nor take in refugees from Europe who fled Hitler. Most of those lost because they couldnt escape did not have the luck and connections that my grandparents did. But I digress...I am set to return to the US tomorrow. And I face that with trepidation and fear.
My privacy settings dont allow non friends to read my posts. That and I dont want to invite comments from people I dont know or from trump bots so thats why there isnt a share button. However please feel free to copy and paste...
This is a post my friend Nadiya Littlewarrior forwarded with permission from the author:
Do people really believe that fascism and the holocaust happened on day one of Hitler's tenure? In 1933 when he first came into power, the Nazis were in control of 3 per cent of the press. The press was very critical, very watchful. Their constant presence prevented the Nazis from operating openly as a fascist regime. Goebbels and Hitler set upon a plan to brainwash and turn the people against the press. The specifically called them, the enemy of the people. They did this, so that when they seized control of the press , the German people would see it as a patriotic duty of their leaders. It worked like a charm. By 1935 Hitler's base , who hated who he hated and others who would accept any conduct for a decent economy, were on board with the gradual takeover of the press. By 1939, those not sold on Hitler, turned their heads, looked away and were, what my father called, the good little, obedient Germans.
According to Republican author and columnist Jeff Nesbit.
"To put it very simply, there were five basic, highly effective moves that allowed Hitler's rise:
First, the Nazi party allowed a coarse, uneducated leader to rise to prominence on a white privilege, nationalist wave. Second, the conservative establishment party foolishly thought it could appease him by sharing power. Third, that same Nazi party destroyed media credibility to silence critics. Fourth, the Nazis literally burned the establishment congress to the ground. Fifth, it seized authoritarian power by using unchallenged propaganda to precipitate an existential threat allegedly emanating from those outside the white Aryan race and outside the nation's borders."
In three different studies of Trump supporters , love for authoritarian behaviors, is the top trait of his base. In order to win and advance their agenda, they have come to disavow Democracy.
Do people get that if the media is controlled by the state and people are loyal to one man and his regime, it's easier to take other freedoms? If the government violates religious freedom, freedom of speech, takes away voting rights for many or were to begin to subvert due process, who alerts the public to this ? The free and independent press. If we lose that freedom, it will merely be the first to go.
Don't think this can happen here ? In a recent poll, 43 per cent of Republicans believe a President should be able to shut down any press outlet he wants. A higher number of Republicans, about 48 per cent, no longer believe protest should be legal.
What can we do ? Get out and vote blue. Republican Congress will not stand up to him. If he increasingly fills these judgeships with people personally loyal or beholden to him, which Hitler did as well ,this may be a road that we go down, that we can not turn back from . He is already mulling over tighter control of the Internet and suggesting we limit search engines like Google. And don't let people tell you that it's uncivil to speak up or not go along with this . In many fascist nations, too many went along to get along. It is not your duty, as an American, to support a President who does not reflect American values .
Colin Powell put it best, this is increasingly morphing from 'We the People, to Me the President .' We can't stop our fellow citizens from behaving like good little, obedient Germans of the 1930's, but we can elect a Congress and Senate, that will do their Constitutional duty and check this President .
The Republican Party and his supporters are only loyal to their leader. It's incumbent on us to be loyal to the country, to the principles of our founders and to not let our freedoms slip into fascism, because of racial animus, greed, or apathy.
Don't be complicit. History shows us how fascism begins. It's up to citizens to stand up, fight back and make your voices heard on November 6 . And it's up to us to end it , here and now. #VOTEBLUE
crazylikafox
(2,762 posts)KT2000
(20,588 posts)Turin_C3PO
(14,063 posts)Sad that its come to this.
Jim_Pridx
(72 posts)Unfortunately, the signs of history repeating itself are becoming clearer and clearer.
Squinch
(51,014 posts)BigmanPigman
(51,630 posts)Americans in general have the political and historical memory of a gnat, and that is being kind.
* This explains why the GOP keeps getting reelected when they are the party that destroys the economy over and over yet when the Dems always fix it no one gives them the credit.
Jim_Pridx
(72 posts)Crazy times, but hopefully we'll prevail on Nov. 6th.
Roadside Attraction
(238 posts)Our experiment in representative, democratic government lasted about 250 years . . . looks as though it's time for us to join the rest of the list of failed democracies.
'Bye.
Jim_Pridx
(72 posts)......at least not until we've had the opportunity to turn things around.
rkleinberger
(155 posts)What is next? Trump the Hitler incarnate attacks the press, and it seems to be working slowly and surely. This is a slow process to move from democracy to fascism. But the signs are moving that way. Currently, the Democratic Party and its allies the progressive movement is weak to respond to right wing attacks. Unless Democrats and the Left Wing start utilizing the press better and go on the attack in the same ways as the fascists Republicans then Drumpf will not be stopped. Democrats keep appeasing assuming some sense of decorum will be maintained. That ship sailed long time ago. That is why we must elect a new crop of Democrats that can fight and fight hard with the same strength as the traitors in the White House and their allies in Congress. And what about the American military? What will be their response to this political climate? One does not know, but if Trump starts to remove his critics in the military and replace them with othre corrupt allies then we know we are finished. Trump gains allies around the world as other countries elect dictators such as in Brazil allowing Russian influence to spread across the world, and we know what that world will look like.
Jim_Pridx
(72 posts)My problem with the Democrats is that way too many of the 'old school' left politicians are still in bed with Wall Street and special interest groups, and they're literally afraid to stand up to these people. We really need some new, young progressive blood in the Democratic Party, IMHO.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I have seen this coming for a long time. Since at least the Bush years. I always knew that it would be a slow process, but that in the end it it would take us over and we wouldn't know what hit us.
How do we get people to understand what is happening when they refuse to see it? It is as plain as day to so many of us, but even many liberals are saying "Well, it can't happen here!".
Jim_Pridx
(72 posts)......I just didn't think it could become accelerated quite as quickly as it has with this administration in power.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Welcome to DU!
bdamomma
(63,922 posts)by this POS impersonating as a pResident and is pillaging our money to give to his friends.
This POS can be overthrown with our votes, fuck the fear tactics, he has detention camps in the US holding children and babies isn't that enough????
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)so slowly that it doesn't realize it is being boiled to death until it's too late. That is what is happening to most people in this country. We keep getting used to each escalating degree of insanity and that becomes the new normal. But then they keep pushing the envelope, over and over and over until we reach a place that is so far from where we have started from we can't believe how we arrived there. But we don't really notice until it's too late.
bdamomma
(63,922 posts)your last sentence is so correct, but things are getting bad, We can see it here. Voting is our BEST option now.
We cannot normalize this, and we are up against some ignorant emboldened hateful people.
saidsimplesimon
(7,888 posts)First, the Nazi party allowed a coarse, uneducated leader to rise to prominence on a white privilege, nationalist wave. Second, the conservative establishment party foolishly thought it could appease him by sharing power. Third, that same Nazi party destroyed media credibility to silence critics. Fourth, the Nazis literally burned the establishment congress to the ground. Fifth, it seized authoritarian power by using unchallenged propaganda to precipitate an existential threat allegedly emanating from those outside the white Aryan race and outside the nation's borders."
Jim_Pridx
(72 posts)1.) Check
2.) Check
3.) In progress
4.) Could likely occur
5.) Could likely occur
FakeNoose
(32,767 posts)However I do see a few differences between the Nazi regime in Germany and here in the US.
Hitler was appointed to his position as premier by Hindenburg, and he had free reign to do a lot of stuff without having to answer to anyone. Hindenburg died a year later and that's when Hitler seized power for good. Hitler never actually won an election, however he did try to run for a lower office in the 1920's, and he lost. Difference is that Trump did actually run for office and supposedly he "won."
There was maybe a closet anti-Semitism percolating in Germany but it was not articulated before Hitler came to power. Most of the Germans found his pronouncements of hatred for Jews to be really far-fetched and crazy. However Germans of the 1930s were extremely afraid of Communists and it was a definite, specific threat to German sovereignty. Germany was perhaps one election away from being taken over by the Communist Party, and Hitler was seen as the answer to that threat. For that reason they forgave a lot of Hitler's other sins. For Cheeto on the other hand, the only perceived "threat" was the strawmen that he saw at the Mexican border.
I believe that a lot of members of the Republican Party actually hate his guts. I believe when the chips are down, not many will stick up for him, and he's losing more every day with every evil thing he does and says. Hitler had 13 years to destroy his country, but I don't believe the US will even give Cheeto one full term.
Jim_Pridx
(72 posts)......of what's occurring in the USA, but the parallels do seem to be a bit uncanny.......too close for comfort as far as I'm concerned.
keithbvadu2
(36,917 posts)"The Republican Party and his supporters are only loyal to their leader."
Oath of Allegiance - Pre and post 1934
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-fuehrer-oath
(before August 2, 1934)
"I swear by almighty God this sacred oath:
I will at all times loyally and honestly
serve my people and country
and, as a brave soldier,
I will be ready at any time
to stake my life for this oath."
The Fuehrer Oath
(effective August 2, 1934)
"I swear by almighty God this sacred oath:
I will render unconditional obedience
to the Fuehrer of the German Reich and people, Adolf Hitler,
Supreme Commander of the Wehrmacht,
and, as a brave soldier,
I will be ready at any time
to stake my life for this oath."
renate
(13,776 posts)And it's scary that people didn't rise up and say OH HELL NO. That they would just say "okay, one dude is more important than my country, and I'll readily die for him."
DFW
(54,443 posts)After the end of World War I, Germany, fairly new as a united entity (1871), suffered a humiliating set of surrender terms that ended up causing near national bankruptcy and widespread mass unemployment and near-starvation (hence the "one election away from electing a communist government" ). The treaty ending WWI was so drastic, the national mood was, following the despair, one of resignation, and then revenge. Hitler promised them their revenge. For that matter, he pretty much laid out his whole plan in "Mein Kampf." It was out there for anyone who was curious as to what he had in mind. Germany HAD been great, and was now in dire straits.
The USA in 2018, on the other hand, has only suffered the humiliation of a fake president installed by foreign manipulation. This is far more easily remedied than mass starvation and unemployment. Just remove the infection by voting in mass numbers. The next Democratic President has, as a first task, the job of getting strict laws passed that make it difficult if not impossible for Republican voter fraud to occur. No electronic voting machines, no gerrymandering, and severe penalties for even trying to prohibit citizens from voting. Then, a law saying that if you are a citizen, you can vote. Period, no exceptions. No one can ever deny you that right again.
The cleverness of "Make America Great Again" is the word "again." You have to convince a lot of people that it was somehow awful before that. Was the USA really an awful place when Obama left office? Republicans needed to make them forget that it was a Republican administration that brought our economy to its knees in 2008. Make them forget that it was a Democratic administration that brought us back, and it was Republicans who tried to prevent it. You can't make that fit on a baseball cap, and you can't force people to think, so the uphill battle is ours. But we do not have an exploitable dire national emergency that the Trumpanzees can claim to save us from--except for the one of their making.
renate
(13,776 posts)And they were much closer in time to having had a Kaiser, so it might have been easier for them to get behind the idea of fealty to a single person.
Still, it's just so weird and scary that so many Americans who have never had a monarch, and whose suffering is caused in large part by the very people they support, are so readily behaving in the same way as Germans who had been through so much. It says a lot about human psychology.
I'm so interested in your perspective, because you have so much political knowledge and experience and because you travel so much and see so much more than those of us who consume mostly US media. Thanks very much!
DFW
(54,443 posts)When I'm home, TV and radio news do tend to give the impression there just isn't much of consequence happening anywhere else. When you live elsewhere, you understand just how much "rest of the world" is really out there, and how many people there are who know America is "out there," but just see it as one more place on the map--maybe with some great music every now and then, but that's about it.
Just as many Americans (I'm from the South, so I do meet them all the time) think France is just a place with wine and Germany is just a place with beer--so, too, are there hundreds of millions of people in Europe to whom the USA is a place with great music, fast food, phony religion, fixed elections, racists and trigger-happy cops. We do not have a monopoly on unfounded prejudice, but we sure seem a little too lax in trying to dispel the generalization. Considering the headlines coming out of the USA in the last two years, it's easy to understand why so many educated people who have never been to America often express no desire to come.
Jim_Pridx
(72 posts)I really appreciate hearing your perspectives.....
Grasswire2
(13,571 posts)I think that most Americans have had a reading list in high school that included Hoffer, Orwell, Sinclair Lewis, etc.
Did those who have fallen for Trump not do their reading assignments? Did the teachers not have discussions? Or am I living in a generational bias?
malaise
(269,174 posts)Rec
renate
(13,776 posts)Yes, Fox will always follow the money. But I've read that Murdoch's sons (one in particular, and his daughters-in-law) are less conservative. Will it make any difference if Fox ever tones down its rhetoric (assuming it ever does), or is this a runaway train? It's not the only conservative "news" outlet, but it's the biggest, and the one most accessible to its older viewership.
northoftheborder
(7,574 posts)LakeArenal
(28,845 posts)Lets hear from you often. 😉
Jim_Pridx
(72 posts)Good to see you! I was actually on DU many years ago, but for some reason I couldn't get back in with my old account. I guess I just decided to quit lurking and start bitching again......LOL.
bdamomma
(63,922 posts)and it can happen here, unless WE VOTE THEM OUT. This is 2018, not the 1930's let's kick their asses, and Putin's too.