but thanks anyway

Didn’t mean to be rude, I was just having trouble unpacking your question.

We know that better than we know anything on earth.

Without answering the question, let me ASSURE you of that.

Here is one more thing I know, if for any reason the mainstream Democrats decide not to impeach, and people on our side make a big deal out of it we will likely NOT win the Senate in 2020 or the WH.

We either stay united or we dont.

We can win on the issues of healthcare, and taxes, and protecting Social Security, and insuring election integrity. Impeachment, as Nancy Pelosi pointed out, should be off the table.

She has left it open as she should.

I think it wont work, but if they decide to do it I am all for it.

But the blu-nami happened because of the issues.

POC and Women and non xtians who know the right are fascist nazis

It was a combination

Donald Trump is guilty of treason and many felonies.

have a final result of removing him.

Dont get me wrong, I want to see it happen, I want to watch him squirm, but I will not criticize my party if we dont do it.

but I would rather try to have him removed by going through the impeachment process rather than not trying at all. By trying, at least there's a chance. By not trying, there is zero chance.

And yes, I do know that you would love to see him removed just as much as I would.

who dont CARE if he is a traitor.

And with the GOP in control of the Senate, political reality suggests that impeachment is a slogan with no chance of becoming substance.

the vile freak traitor scumbag squirm and cry and scream and berate everyone around him

.. if we want to keep our democracy.

I'm not in a position to bring a bill of impeachment. If you think he should be impeached, you need to lobby your congressman -- next January. I'm willing to wait and see the results of Mueller's investigation and the various congressional investigations. The main thing about impeachment is, like any prosecution, there needs to be an air-tight case of evidence.

So let's all practice a little more patience and let the situation unfold.

First, the Mueller report. Second, Congressional hearings, which will investigate any and all Trumpista atrocities not brought forward by the Mueller report, but also, everything in that report. Third, Articles of Impeachment.

I think we're a long ways away from the third step. Next summer, maybe.

He deserves to be removed from office as well but we don't have the power to do that. So if we can't remove him from office, maybe we are better off not impeaching and weakening our political position.

but on the other hand you're saying that we shouldn't even TRY? I'm not trying to be snarky, just wondering.

I think we should do "oversight" as Pelosi says. This will bring information out into the public. If the political consensus, including voters and Republican Senators is that he is guilty and they therefore abandon him, then we should impeach. But if Republican Senators stick by him, as I suspect they will, then it will all just be for show with a foregone conclusion.

But if we just do oversight, at least the information is out and then his "trial" will be by the public in the next election.

and makes good sense. Thank you.

The list is loooooooooooooooooooooong.

obstruction of justice, conspiracy against the united states by getting aid from a foreign country...

usually the DA will demand that more evidence be found that would increase the chance of a conviction.

I'm very much in favor of impeachment IF there is a very good chance that the Senate will convict. Otherwise, not much of anything would be accomplished.

the people, in general, are heavily in favor of it. They are the real jury, imo. Also, under the present circumstances, the Senate is not going to cooperate. Now what I want to see is the the various investigations proceed.

In a relatively short time Trump will begin to stink in more and more nostrils....even possibly in the Senate. The dead "political" body of Mr. Trump should be propped up on his horse and his corpse should continue to absorb the fire of accusations from all sides. His horse will keep prancing at the forefront of the Republican Party until the public, and then the Senate Republicans, demand that impeachment proceedings begin. What fun it will be to watch. If any of us survive.

My opinion.

To Dems: Work for the people and solve the problems they voted on. Then investigate, investigate, and investigate while making Mueller and his team safe.

I think that's an excellent post.

it could be argued that it has cost them their soul as a party. They had to cheat to keep Al Gore from being president. That was even with all of Mr. Clinton's behavior. His popularity grew with the persecution they were giving out.

Fox News took great strength from the process and it has been eating away at America ever since. In many ways Fox and Limbaugh and his ilk have brought home this Death Bird to roost.

By dealing with the Bush devil and now the Trump Satan the Republican Party might have to pay the ultimate price .... dissolution. Time will tell. Maybe only in the next world will the full extent of Republican treachery be revealed. If not there maybe in the history books of the next decade.....I hope we survive to read them.

There are lots of people who deserve the Death Penalty but I still oppose it for factual and practical reasons.

I certainly think trump deserves to be impeached. But for factual and practical reasons I think it would be a mistake. Because I think it would help him in the long run unless there is a certainty of conviction in the Senate.

We are going to see lots of impeachment threads here in the next several months. Honorable people can disagree. I am concerned about the attempted I am already seeing on DU to equate opposition to impeachment with support with Trump. Which is how I read your OP.

Spending the next 2 years trying to impeach trump rather than passing bill after bill that the American People support only to have republicans kill them would be a huge error. We would give away a chance to regain both houses of Congress and the White House.

You may disagree. But please do not demonize those with a different opinion.

I detest the Mother Fucker with every fiber of my body. But impeachment with out universal support will, in my opinion, hurt the Democratic Party.

I can't think of anything I would recommend "regardless of outcome"

when the Pukes impeached Clinton? His popularity skyrocketed and they came out with egg on their faces.

The man got a blowjob and lied about it. His lie did not weaken the country before an adversary. He did not take illegal actions to enrich himself. There is a reason why the constitutional standard is "High crimes and misdemeanors". The Founders were looking at crimes like treason or aiding and abetting an adversary, grand thelf from the national purse, fermenting internal anarchy. Trump likely is guilty of several of the crimes that the Founders tried to guard against, but investigations need to be done and ironclad evidence presented that any reasonable person, even a staunch supporter of his would agree dictates his removal from office.

Why the fuck should our Reps put the nation through that to make us feel good? If evidence is presented that he certainly has done crimes (which I believe) and republican senators will look like fools defending him against removal from office, impeachment must stay off the table.

Do you want him impeached on evidence that WE believe just to make us feel good about what was done to Bill Clinton?

Impeachment should never be used as a political tool and because a party has the votes to do it, like republicans did to Clinton.

I said if he deserves to be impeached, and since we now have the power to do so, then he should be impeached.

And republican Senators would be traitors if they keep him in office, then articles of impeachment should be filed. Otherwise it will be a politics driven stunt that backfires in our face.

And it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with following our conscience. You've got some logical fallacies embedded in your reasoning.

What is right and deserved are not necessarily the best choices for moving a cause forward.

My daughter was an adult before she had a legal connection to both of her parents because demanding what was right and deserved would have made bad law applicable to every child of LGBT parents in the state. Tolerating personal injustice meant that local courts outside of our appellate district could continue to quietly approve second parent adoptions by same gender parents.

Kavanaugh is on the court because we demanded our senators waste the nuclear option on Gorsuch for political show. The results would have been different had the nuclear option fight preceded Kavanaugh's confirmation vote - because he was less politically popular.

We need to govern smart by making strategic choices.

Since Trump would never be convicted by the Senate it would just be a self indulgent political exercise when there is so much else to be done. Plus it could result in Democrats losing the House, again.

and unless you think you can remove you shouldn't impeach. It is pointless to impeach without removal.

We want him gone....Out of office...bye...

Until that can happen, congress won't impeach.

We won't get a second bite at the impeachment apple. By seeking to impeach prematurely, we risk permanently inoculating him against any further impeachment attempt.

are not the same people taking the poll.

That's why the two outcomes don't match.

The math is not there

and a huge Trump supporter to boot, so any quote from him goes in one ear and out the other.

But since the chances are exactly zero, it is not worth the effort to let Trump crow (again) that he was the target of a witch hunt that went nowhere, and look, see? He was exonerated.

Better to expose his crimes in the press and thr courts, and let him be convicted by public opinion in the 2020 election.

Political experts will need to weigh in on whether it would be:

a. successful
b. politically wise, if unsuccessful

It's time to start thinking about 2020 and the last thing we need is his whining his way into a win over how the Dems victimized him with a futile impeachment effort, and many etceteras.

Before you get to the "chances are slim that 2/3 of the Senate would vote to convict", they vote on should they even have a trial?". Most likely it will end there.

Yes, WE all think it should happen, but we're a little biased. It really is up to Congress.

And, if Congress does do it, they have to do it right. We only have one shot at this.

Be patient.

is just foolish. When Bill Clinton was acquitted by the Senate he became more popular than ever and the Republicans looked like idiots - it totally backfired. There's an old saying about how if you're going to attack the king you have to be sure you can kill him. Unless there is a good possibility of 67 votes for conviction in the Senate it would be a mistake to pass articles of impeachment that won't go anywhere. Nobody wants that asshole removed from office more than I do, but I don't want the Dems to light an exploding cigar.

If he's able to present enough evidence to build a strong case for impeachment, then I would say the House should begin an impeachment trial regardless of any expected outcome. History needs to see the details.

We need to remember a couple of things:
1) Most of the republicans were against impeaching Nixon until they saw the evidence. Once it was presented, they knew the right thing to do.
2) The Clinton impeachment backfired on the republicans because the underlying crime was trivial. Trump's crimes are potentially very significant (crimes against America, etc.) Also, Clinton was a popular president, Trump is not. Trying to impeach trump may not be as bad for the Democrats as it was when the republicans impeached Clinton.