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How close is Mueller? (Original Post) brettdale Nov 2018 OP
I hope he is close TEB Nov 2018 #1
Rumors are that he'll wrap things up by the end of year. nmgaucho Nov 2018 #2
I don't know at what point, but I have a hunch that 2019 Downtown Hound Nov 2018 #3
Ready to go but on hold at the instructions of Whitaker California_Republic Nov 2018 #4
Tribe says Mueller doesn't have to follow Whitakers orders since he is illegally installed. triron Nov 2018 #7
Mueller follows current boss so as not to be insubordinate California_Republic Nov 2018 #8
Mueller does have to report it to Congress DeminPennswoods Nov 2018 #28
Wow, excellent point! lagomorph777 Nov 2018 #29
My gut says post January 3 RainCaster Nov 2018 #5
Very good point! n/t RKP5637 Nov 2018 #6
+1 Quemado Nov 2018 #15
My gut and my brain, too. My heart would rather tomorrow, but that wouldn't make sense. n/t pnwmom Nov 2018 #19
It's not unlikely Mueller has had everything from the beginning, Qutzupalotl Nov 2018 #9
I'm not as sure that Mueller is hell bent on bringing trump down. Hoyt Nov 2018 #10
The fact that he outsourced some prosecutions to other jurisdictions like New York Squinch Nov 2018 #16
But it's not trump, his kids, or anyone like that. That's the problem. Hoyt Nov 2018 #17
You don't know that. No one does. But we DO know that the Trump org pnwmom Nov 2018 #23
If there is evidence on trump, and I suspect there is, it's time to start levying charges. Hoyt Nov 2018 #27
Not isn't time till they have ENOUGH evidence to guarantee a conviction -- as they almost always do pnwmom Nov 2018 #32
Fine, we'll be waiting in 2025 after all the damage is done. n/t Hoyt Nov 2018 #33
Indictments and guilty pleas aren't rumors. nt greyl Nov 2018 #20
Who has been indicted for collusion? Both Cohen and Manaforte were indicted for charges unrelated to Hoyt Nov 2018 #30
This is already NOTHING like Fitzmas. pnwmom Nov 2018 #21
except for all the indictments and guilty admissions and agreements to cooperate.. n/t wroberts189 Nov 2018 #26
Not close at all! nt USALiberal Nov 2018 #11
I'll bet anything he's got a bunch of sealed indictments that could drop in a nanosecond. Vinca Nov 2018 #12
I have no idea where the Mueller investigation stands. I think we sometimes lose sight of the dameatball Nov 2018 #13
2019 Spring Irishxs Nov 2018 #14
The new House is installed on January 3, 2019. We won't have to wait till spring just for that. n/t pnwmom Nov 2018 #22
Given the massive criminality that we all know Donald J Trump has been involved in... Small-Axe Nov 2018 #18
I'm sure that's true, but couldn't he get started on the most egregious crimes smirkymonkey Nov 2018 #24
My guess is the first day of the new Dem House in January............ sunonmars Nov 2018 #25
My gut knows that all it's going to get when it starts Hortensis Nov 2018 #31

nmgaucho

(527 posts)
2. Rumors are that he'll wrap things up by the end of year.
Sun Nov 11, 2018, 06:04 PM
Nov 2018

Expect some indictments to drop soon, possibly even next week.

Downtown Hound

(12,618 posts)
3. I don't know at what point, but I have a hunch that 2019
Sun Nov 11, 2018, 06:05 PM
Nov 2018

is going to be the year that the Trump empire is brought to its knees.

California_Republic

(1,826 posts)
8. Mueller follows current boss so as not to be insubordinate
Sun Nov 11, 2018, 06:15 PM
Nov 2018

My gut .. waits for calcification from the courts

DeminPennswoods

(15,289 posts)
28. Mueller does have to report it to Congress
Mon Nov 12, 2018, 10:34 AM
Nov 2018

if any of his requests are denied, as required by the special counsel law.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
29. Wow, excellent point!
Mon Nov 12, 2018, 10:37 AM
Nov 2018

I think Mueller's calculating the exact moments to make his indictments and reports for maximum impact.

RainCaster

(10,908 posts)
5. My gut says post January 3
Sun Nov 11, 2018, 06:07 PM
Nov 2018

Why release that report unless you have a Congress that will actually read it?

Qutzupalotl

(14,321 posts)
9. It's not unlikely Mueller has had everything from the beginning,
Sun Nov 11, 2018, 06:15 PM
Nov 2018

i.e., audio intercepts from our allies. But he also understands the necessity of not burning sources, especially allied intel. He would likely need a long time to find a way to build a case that does not involve the intercepts. My gut tells me this part is done. There is also the matter of countersuits questioning his legitimacy. While those legal arguments may be questionable, their use as propaganda could be formidable. Mueller will need to get favorable court rulings in both to solidify his legitimacy with the whole of the public — which he will need.

Mueller is demonstrably a patriot, and will try to avert a civil war; but he will not accommodate a traitor. He knows how to take down an organized criminal mob.

I do believe Mueller has thought this through and planned for the possibility the Democrats would win back the House, giving them their sole constitutional remedy for this situation. Before you say Republicans control the Senate and will never convict, I say: Never say never. We do not know the depth of depravity Mueller has uncovered. We do not know who in Congress has been indicted already. We do not know who will be left standing.

I urge patience and steady resolve.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
10. I'm not as sure that Mueller is hell bent on bringing trump down.
Sun Nov 11, 2018, 06:27 PM
Nov 2018

Hope I’m wrong, but Fitzmas is hard to forget.

Most of what we think we know about Mueller’s investigation is rumor.

Squinch

(50,989 posts)
16. The fact that he outsourced some prosecutions to other jurisdictions like New York
Sun Nov 11, 2018, 10:08 PM
Nov 2018

and NOVA makes me think he is. If he wanted to protect trump in any way, or if he wanted to go easy on him, he would not have turned things over. He would have kept them close so he could oversee them.

I'm hopeful.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
17. But it's not trump, his kids, or anyone like that. That's the problem.
Sun Nov 11, 2018, 10:14 PM
Nov 2018

Again, I hope I'm wrong.

pnwmom

(108,990 posts)
23. You don't know that. No one does. But we DO know that the Trump org
Mon Nov 12, 2018, 04:03 AM
Nov 2018

is being investigated by the Fed attorney in NY (most recently, per the WSJ story); and also the Trump Foundation -- for actions that took place while DT was in charge.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
27. If there is evidence on trump, and I suspect there is, it's time to start levying charges.
Mon Nov 12, 2018, 10:30 AM
Nov 2018

Everyday he remains in office gives him more time to harm our country. That's how Mueller ought to view his investigation. trump ought to be pursued as if he is an armed killer. If they have something on trump that will hold up, it's time to release it.

pnwmom

(108,990 posts)
32. Not isn't time till they have ENOUGH evidence to guarantee a conviction -- as they almost always do
Mon Nov 12, 2018, 11:24 AM
Nov 2018

when they file a Federal indictment.

The standard isn't enough to prove it to DUers -- it's enough to prove it to a nonbiased jury of 12. And Mueller and his people will know when they get to that point. We don't know it from the outside.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
30. Who has been indicted for collusion? Both Cohen and Manaforte were indicted for charges unrelated to
Mon Nov 12, 2018, 10:37 AM
Nov 2018

elections, obstruction, etc.

Heck, Manaforte was primarily indicted for tax evasion and laundering money years ago, that has little to do with trump. Cohen -- unlawful corporate campaign contribution, making an excessive campaign contribution, tax fraud, and making false statements to a financial institution.

I think trump ought to be removed from office for what he's done during elections and while in office. Heck remove him for being a general A-hole. But so far, the investigation hasn't touched him, except for rumors that come from unconfirmed sources.

pnwmom

(108,990 posts)
21. This is already NOTHING like Fitzmas.
Mon Nov 12, 2018, 04:00 AM
Nov 2018

Just on Manafort alone, Mueller has far surpassed anything Fitzgerald did:

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/mueller-s-paul-manafort-indictments-were-prosecutorial-masterpieces-trump-should-ncna911166

I’ve been a criminal lawyer, both as, a prosecutor and criminal defense lawyer, for over four decades. Manafort’s “Superseding Criminal Information” sets forth the longest recitation of facts I have ever seen admitted to in a guilty plea — dozens of pages plus attached exhibits. In that document, Manafort admitted to every fact the government has alleged in both the District of Columbia and Virginia prosecutions.

By requiring Manafort to admit to all of the facts in both cases, the conviction is essentially “pardon proof” in the sense that if Trump ever pardoned Manafort, a state attorney general could take Manafort’s admissions from the plea and his interviews with the prosecutors and use them to indict Manafort on state charges including tax violations and money laundering. In his cooperation agreement Manafort expressly agreed that “any other party” (potentially a state attorney general) can use Manafort’s statement “in any criminal or civil proceeding.”

When Manafort’s testimony is combined with the additional testimony of Flynn, Cohen and Gates, it appears that Mueller is quite likely on the verge of handing down new major indictments. These indictments could very well answer the ultimate question of what Trump knew and when he knew it.



dameatball

(7,399 posts)
13. I have no idea where the Mueller investigation stands. I think we sometimes lose sight of the
Sun Nov 11, 2018, 06:34 PM
Nov 2018

probability of other investigations bringing charges for perhaps years. We have state investigations, investigations of Giuliani currently going overseas, Crete, Flynn, decades of money laundering, implications with IRS.....this could take a while folks. Not to say that Mueller may well bring him down, but this is one extremely long ball of yarn that is unraveling.

pnwmom

(108,990 posts)
22. The new House is installed on January 3, 2019. We won't have to wait till spring just for that. n/t
Mon Nov 12, 2018, 04:01 AM
Nov 2018
 

Small-Axe

(359 posts)
18. Given the massive criminality that we all know Donald J Trump has been involved in...
Mon Nov 12, 2018, 12:20 AM
Nov 2018

I'm convinced Mueller could drop a hammer anytime. The only thing delaying him, I suppose, is the sheer volume of crimes. Just typing up a list of his crimes would be daunting, much less substantiating them with evidence and witnesses.

I'm sure there are literally too many crimes to prosecute them all.

When Mueller releases his report I suspect it will be an avalanche.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
24. I'm sure that's true, but couldn't he get started on the most egregious crimes
Mon Nov 12, 2018, 06:58 AM
Nov 2018

right away? If he waits to wrap up everything the process will be endless.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
31. My gut knows that all it's going to get when it starts
Mon Nov 12, 2018, 10:40 AM
Nov 2018

talking to me is food, if it's lucky.

Unfortunately, I also have no idea. Some experts say the investigation will have gathered the evidence it needs by now in order to act. Others say the investigation could continue for another year.

Sounds like Trump's already backing off Whitaker. If Whitaker knows what's good for him (far from clear), he'll be damned careful not to commit any felonies during his brief stint. But then we don't know what he may have been promised or the messages god may be sending him through his gut, Bush II-style.

The rules are clear: Whitaker can’t supervise Mueller’s investigation. I wrote the special counsel regulations. Neal Katyal
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