I'd rather win than take any chance of losing. What difference does his age make? If he can't finish his term for any reason, Kamala Harris is President.

The fact that Biden for Prez is even a serious possibility speaks to the hammerlock that many older Dems have kept on power. One can’t blame them because they are supported by the base, but something needs to give if we are to give younger talent the chance to grow.

Along those lines, it’s worth noting that the only reason Harris has a national profile is that Barbara Boxer did something exceedingly healthy and, for a Democrat of her station, unconventional: she RETIRED.

Exhibit A: Hillary Clinton

Exhibit B: Nancy Pelosi

Our big names tend to be older than the Republicans'. That's an interesting conversation too.

I know an old friend who is a strong Republican. A year ago, (or more) he said as strongly as one can say, that without doubt he would vote for Biden. no other Dem but Biden made the most sense to him..

BIDEN WILL WIN...NOTHING MORE IMPORTANT..

We actually have a plethora of good candidates, including younger people, POC, Women etc.

The point if this exercise is ONCE a decision has been made we all come together and support that person as if our very lives will be OVER if they dont win.

He is not too old. Look at Pelosi and Ginsburg. They are involved and their minds are still sharp. They haven’t retired

I'm 70 years old...I love Joe but it's time for a new generation of progressives...Harris, Kennedy, Lieu, Swalwell..and "baby boomer" Sherrod Brown if we want older more experience...

blue state California, or a Democratic cabinet post in D.C..No POTUS.

what about the rest?

Senator too would be wonderful

Those tickets solve a lot of problems.

Sherrod-Kamala..perfect

He showed tremendous leadership and charisma throughout his Senate campaign. He's leader substance and compassion and toughness.

The only reason to say he needs seasoning is because you're not familiar with him yet. This is the same thing people said about Clinton in 1992 and Obama in 2008.

Democrats always nominate young winners. It's when we nominate seasoned politicians that we don't win the White House.

he's wonderful...but he still needs seasoning...would love for him to beat Cornyn and then run for president...beto/gillium...or the reverse...he needs to come into the convention and blow everyone away...

Isn't that how Mike Pence became vice president?

blow everyone away!

about 2 years ago Beto's sister (I know the family) asked me if I would support him if he ran for Cruz's seat...absolutely..tell his people to call me and they did...donated a hefty sum...and continued to donate and encouraged friends and family to donate...and I heard him speak and I was swept away...no soundbites...complete sentences..and I told anyone and everyone this kid (to me he's a kid...he and my son were on the same Little League baseball team) is going to be president someday...so I recognize what he is and the direction he wants to take this country...but he has to run and beat Cornyn first...

I don't think there's some magical quality inside the United States Senate that someone has to come into the chamber before becoming eligible to run for president. That's not how historical tipping points work.

And seriously, 12 years ago everyone was saying Obama had to win a second term before running for president. That's how subservience to formal structures of power works inside our heads. Then Obama came along and changed the perceptions, and we can seriously talk about Kamala Harris for president. And that's a good thing.

I'm not sold on Beto O'Rourke for president. But the mentality that you have to win a senate election before running for president would have kept Abraham Lincoln out of the White House. It's not that good a rule.

What someone has to do to prove themselves is inspire millions with their story, their ideas, and their passion. Perhaps a few years in public service also helps. Beto can check off both those boxes. Plus he's hot right now. Democrats love young inspirational candidates, they always work out for us.

Democracy should be about up ending hierarchies every generation or so. Maybe this is what it looks like this time around

Or would you be ok with the combinations in any order?

Those talents would be wasted as a vice presidential candidate, regardless of who his running mate is.

You put SENATOR Harris as second fiddle to FORMER CONGRESSMAN O’Rourke?

but he'd be great.

He looked like he just rolled out of bed.

Bernie is one year older.

When it comes to running against the old Orange one.

Nonpolitical voters (40%+) will trust a moderate Democrat more.

governor, state legislature, local elected officials we can replace.

Trumps going down no matter what, and we have a very deep bench of talent for POTUS. Whoever we nominate will be good and fighting over it before we nail down Congress is a dangerous distraction.

If trump actually makes it to the next election (w/out being indicted) the dems should take no chances.

They will convince Trump not to run or nominate someone else.

to tell Trump not to run again.

tRump has among repugs.

And couldn't get the nomination. Likable and admirable in many ways but not as our nominee in 2020.

I like Joe but as a baby boomer, I think we need some new but competent faces.

I think Beto is too inexperienced. If a Democrat is elected, he would be a good cabinet member, maybe Housing and Urban Development. That department is going to need major repairs after Ben Carson finishes demolishing it.

I do not know Sherrod Brown but he is "only" 66, has two terms in the Senate, and has great experience at the state and federal levels (Representative, OH 13th District (1993–2007), Secretary of State of Ohio (1983–1991)).

I think Kamala Harris would be fantastic as VP. She would also be a terrific Attorney General.

I don't see what from a strategic point of view she would bring to a ticket, being from California, though I would like someone younger in one or both spots.

All the old assumptions are out the window.

He never lighted a fire before so why would being chosen for a position by the nominee rather than being chosen by the voters make a difference the third time around?

To become well known to people in a mostly positive light.

He was seen in a positive light when he ran before - and lost, twice.

both times he ran I was strongly in favor of him. He's really a tremendously talented politician. I don't know what that something is, but when he runs in a group , he doesn't rise out of the pack.

I think people who are now talking about Biden for 2020, are mostly speaking out of a lack of ability to spot new talent. That's a followership skill not a leadership skill

He would be 86 by end of 2nd term, and he is not going to energise the younger voters to nearly as high a level as others.

Only ones I have ruled out for sure (unless obviously, they somehow win the nomination) are Bernie, Biden, HRC, and Bloomberg. Also NO celebrity candidates, sorry Oprah, etc.


Kamala Harris is probably my first choice now, and would love to see Beto as VP on that ticket, or a liberal 4 star military ex-officer, to kneecap Trump and RW on national security issues. I really like Booker too (he certainly has the fire in his belly to go after Trump), and Amy Klobuchar, maybe Warren as well.

But I am still really open to other candidates not listed. Maybe a Governor who comes out of nowhere.

all that is important is the results of the election on the first Tuesday in November 2020.

After that, we can discuss anything you want.

He also has issues in the past that will hurt him with younger people from my age cohort ( and up) who are struggling with crushing student loan debts. He led the Democratic charge to make student loans non-dischargeable. Also, and this is before I was born, but people seem ti still care, there is the Anita Hill/Clarence Thomas issues.

It is time to move on to younger candidates. I will vote for Biden, obviously, if he wins the nomination, but I would never support nor vote for him, or Bernie, or HRC in the primaries.

I know many in the real world who still support the last 2 to run in 2020. I know nobody for whom Biden is their preferred candidate.

I guess the only discrimination that is accepted here is age discrimination.

If we don't beat Trump in 2020, we won't have a country for young, old or anything else.

Just win.

I don't support Biden because I do not think he is the most electable candidate. Age is but one reason why. Same for HRC and Bloomberg.

Atm, I am probably leaning Kamala Harris. I like Booker too. Amy Klobuchar probably 3rd. It is still very early.

As you can tell by my OP, I think the world of Kamala, as she is my choice for VP.

But we need to win over enough of the middle American voters to beat Trump. Trump is not a regular politician. He's Hitler to me. So, if we have to make some people in middle America feel comfortable with our choice, so be it.

The people who would vote for Kamala or Booker should be voting for anyone on the Democratic ticket. After all, you wouldn't have needed a Jewish candidate in 1936 Germany to have Jewish voters vote for Hitler's opponent. But we need a candidate that makes some (not all, mind you, but just enough to carry Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania) white, middle blue collar voters to defeat Trump.

Winning politics is not about philosophy. It's about math.

We shall see who is right. Good chance neither one is the nominee.

Last edited Mon Nov 19, 2018, 05:18 PM - Edit history (1)

We'll get a ton of blue collar votes in the mid-west with Kamala at the top of the ticket.

Patience. Kamala as VP will give her the gravitas necessary to walk-in in 2024 as the demographics change and the Trump effect disintegrates. I can just see the Trumpsters after a loss, "I'll never vote again". Good.

If we lose in 2020, we're fucked for another generation, even with a 2024 win. They'll be a 6-3 supreme court against us. Maybe even 7-2. We won't recover in the lifetime of a 30 year old.

getting the biggest blocs who undervoted (straight-up non-voters, including, more specifically the 18 to 40 demo and then PoC) in 2016 is much more fertile ground. Harris will supercharge the minority voters as well, in a way Biden never can. Booker too, and the ultimate wild card, Michelle Obama (who I would instantly put at the top of my list IF she decided to run,which I do not think is going to happen). If you want a compromise, put Biden in as VP again. I doubt he will go for that though.

I have watched Biden a lot lately. He looks tired. That is electoral poison right there.

they deserve the disaster they get for the rest of their lives.

On the other hand, we need an additional 5% of non-college educated white males to win those Midwestern states, and we if can't get a candidate to defeat Trump there, all the undependable "youth vote" won't amount to a hill of beans.

you see, I've done my part. I've worked the trenches. I go back to McGovern in 1972. I've only voted for and worked for Democrats.

If some "youth voters" want (as they did to Hillary in 2016) sit on their hands for spite, I'll remind them and you, I'm personally all set. I'm fighting for them. But I'll be damned if I'm going to fight harder for them than they do for themselves.

I'm 66 years old. Me and my wife have done everything necessary to live the rest of our lives comfortably. If young people want to try to pull this off without us, good fucking luck. If we don't play by their rules, they'll sit it out? Who really gives a fuck? They'll be the ones that suffer the most.

All I can say is that message would be an electoral disaster.

Vote for him, Kamala won't. Which bills has she succeeded in sponsoring and passing in Senate?

He also has baggage from the Anita Hill issue. His age is also a legit issue.

I wont support him at all in the primaries. He is not our best ticket for beating Trump.

...for their own good. If they sit out an election or vote against their own interest, they are very unreliable parts of our coalition. So. let me get this straight: If the minorities, who are getting screwed by Trump and young people, who have the most to lose, don't have a candidate that looks like them, they're not with us? My answer: Fuck them. They have the most to lose and I have nothing at stake, personally. We need some moderates to win and that group is NOT part of our coalition. We need to bring them on board to win. But if the people who have the most at stake want to hold themselves hostage, good luck.

I am both young and a minority. Dont need to be told to vote for a very old white male candidate who tells my gen that he has no empathy and his had it so much harder (bullshit) or who voted (beyond that, voted led the charge) against our interests (student loans).

Oh, and now told, in.so many words, to fuck off if we don't support Biden. Don't try and say 'OMG, you are supporting Trump or third party' as I have already said every time IF Biden is nominee, I vote for him. In the primary I am not going to vote for any candidate who is a centrist chasing older white moderate/centre right voters. Nope. We crashed and burned in 2016 doing that. Stacey Abrams and Beto showed you can massively expand our electorate in ruby red states from a LEFT leaning campaign. They am so so much closer to winning than a Biden centrist type had done in decades. That translates ro a nation POTUS win.

So I just say no to Joe. I am not changing my mind on him. Nope. Deffo could change mind on who I actually vote FOR.

Cheers

Sounds like a great campaign strategy.

Didn't work then, doubt it will work in 2020. I think the Democrats need to give up on the elusive moderate Republican. They are Republicans. You may peel off a few if DJT gets nominated come 2020; but isn't the better plan to go after the new first time voter? Be it the millennials, the disenfranchised or the growing non-white minorities that are increasing fast?

Surely we Democrats have the better vision for the future that addresses their hopes and dreams. We just need to focus on health care for all; higher education/job training that won't bankrupt you and a higher minimum wage. I know these issues poll well with the public.

The older moderate republicans who do not like Trump will show up at the ballot box.
Participation by new voters day in 2018 was not encouraging.

My favorite is Booker. So Biden/Booker or Biden/Harris (my second choice) looks good to me. For the reasons you enumerate.

Bill

There are too many battleground states where people are just too uncomfortable voting for a woman or for a person of color in this climate. This is the demographic that voted for trump in 2016. Biden would get those voters to vote D again. end of story. And Kamala Harris would be great as a VP

But what about the swing states? In the end, they decide. Rural people decide. Are they ready for the first female president? I know Hillary had a lot of baggage. But how much did that really matter?

and youth votes compared to Biden at top than it would lose in rural areas. Biden will be lukewarm at best with the younger voters. He already is taking potshots at us (see my post downthread), and his student loan machinations (leading the charge for the Democratic side to make them virtually non dischargeable in 2005) will not play well either.

Another poster, pnwmom, told me that many older women will not support him due to the Anita Hill stuff. That was before I was born but I am fairly aware of the issue.

I think he is actually a big risk v Trump, especially if its a brutal primary campaign. Bernie truly needs to stay out.

Like I keep saying, if Joe Biden gets the nomination, I vote for him in the general. I definitely will vote for someone else in the CA primary. Probably Kamala Harris atm, who will win my state in a landslide more than likely, if she runs.

Maybe she picks him as VP. Doubt he would accept. Who knows, anything can happen, look at the orange shitstain currently in the WH.

Atm, I just want Nancy Pelosi to be elected Speaker.

...we're sunk.

It's like Berlin in 1932. If I needed to talk a Jewish voter to vote against Hitler by having a different candidate than Otto Wels, that race was over.

Biden was too much baggage in regards to, and is too hostile to the younger generations, both in past legislative acts he helped get passed into law and current attitudes about, to gain mass traction support. Factor in his age and also that if he is pushed to be the top of the ticket, it will entail that a woman or a minority (or both) will be thus a priori reduced to playing second fiddle (as VP, if he even picks a woman or a minority as a running mate), and it is something <i cannot get behind.

Here is a detailed accounting from another thread.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=11449653

He was the Senator from Delaware, so he often came down on the side of big banks and big insurance.

This article is from 2015. Student loan total debt is now over 1.5 trillion USD. Far higher than total credit card debt.

Joe Biden Backed Bills To Make It Harder For Americans To Reduce Their Student Debt

https://www.ibtimes.com/joe-biden-backed-bills-make-it-harder-americans-reduce-their-student-debt-2094664

Jennifer Ryan did not love the idea of taking on debt, but she figured she was investing in her future. Eager to further her teaching career, she took out loans to gain certification and later pursued an advanced degree. But her studies came at a massive cost, leaving her confronting $192,000 in student loan debt. “It’s overwhelming,” Ryan told International Business Times of her debts. “I can’t pay it back on the schedule the lenders have demanded."

In the past, debtors in her position could have used bankruptcy court to shield them from some of their creditors. But a provision slipped into federal law in 2005 effectively bars most Americans from accessing bankruptcy protections for their private student loans.

In recent months, Democrats have touted legislation to roll back that law, as Americans now face more than $1.2 trillion in total outstanding debt from their government and private student loans. The bill is a crucial component of the party’s pro-middle-class economic message heading into 2016. Yet one of the lawmakers most responsible for limiting the legal options of Ryan and students like her is the man who some Democrats hope will be their party's standard-bearer in 2016: Vice President Joe Biden.

As a senator from Delaware -- a corporate tax haven where the financial industry is one of the state’s largest employers -- Biden was one of the key proponents of the 2005 legislation that is now bearing down on students like Ryan. That bill effectively prevents the $150 billion worth of private student debt from being discharged, rescheduled or renegotiated as other debt can be in bankruptcy court.

Biden's efforts in 2005 were no anomaly. Though the vice president has long portrayed himself as a champion of the struggling middle class -- a man who famously commutes on Amtrak and mixes enthusiastically with blue-collar workers -- the Delaware lawmaker has played a consistent and pivotal role in the financial industry's four-decade campaign to make it harder for students to shield themselves and their families from creditors, according to an IBT review of bankruptcy legislation going back to the 1970s.

snip


Joe Biden for President? Media Buzz Ignores How Veep Worsened Student Debt on Big Banks’ Behalf

VIDEO AT LINK

https://www.democracynow.org/2015/10/20/joe_biden_for_president_media_buzz



Washington is abuzz with rumors Vice President Joe Biden will soon enter the race for the Democratic presidential nomination. While a new campaign would seek to capitalize on Biden’s two terms as vice president, it would also invite scrutiny of his Senate record in a Democratic political climate notably more progressive today than it was when Biden last sought the nomination. Biden’s 1994 crime bill, while implementing sweeping gun control, also helped fuel mass incarceration with financial incentives to keep people behind bars. Biden is also known for close ties to the financial industry, notably helping push through a 2005 bill that made it harder for consumers to declare bankruptcy. According to The New York Times, the credit card issuer MBNA was Biden’s top donor from 1989 to 2010. Now, as speculation over Biden’s presidential aspirations reaches a fever pitch, the Obama administration is seeking to repeal one of his key legislative achievements. The White House wants to undo a provision in the 2005 bankruptcy law that made it harder to reduce student debt, preventing most Americans from claiming bankruptcy protections for private student loans. The administration’s effort follows the publication last month of an International Business Times exposé by David Sirota, “Joe Biden Backed Bills to Make It Harder for Americans to Reduce Their Student Debt.” Sirota discusses Biden’s role in passing the legislation.

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, Washington is abuzz with rumors that Vice President Joe Biden will soon enter the race for the Democratic presidential nomination. Biden has huddled with key advisers while putting out feelers to potential staffers and supporters. The speculation has increased since August, when New York Times columnist Maureen Dowd reported Biden’s son, Beau Biden, urged his father to run before dying of cancer earlier this year. This month, Politico reported Dowd’s source for the story was Joe Biden himself. A longtime Democratic senator from Delaware, Biden previously ran twice for the Democratic nod. The last time was in 2008, when he ultimately became then-Senator Barack Obama’s running mate.

snip



Joe Biden’s greatest betrayal: The one Senate vote that makes it hard to support a Biden run
As a Senator in Delaware, Biden shepherded to passage a law that decimated bankruptcy protection for milllions

https://www.salon.com/2015/10/21/joe_bidens_greatest_betrayal_the_one_senate_vote_that_makes_it_hard_to_support_a_biden_run/

Any day now, Vice President Joe Biden is set to announce whether he'll run for president, thus flummoxing the Democratic field and making life unnecessarily more difficult for the current pair of highly qualified frontrunners, Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders. There's much to be said about why Biden should gracefully decline to run and, frankly, the left would do well to assert itself against his would-be candidacy. Not only would Biden give the traditional press another reason to manufacture a false equivalence between, say, Donald Trump's buffoonery and Joe Biden's penchant for blurting awkward things, but just beneath Biden's likability lurks a darker side that ought to summarily repulse the left, and especially anyone who was screwed by the Great Recession.

On several occasions throughout the past 15 years, the colossally powerful banking lobby unsuccessfully pushed for new legislation to tighten the rules pertaining to who can file for bankruptcy protection, and how much protection they'll receive. The first time in recent memory occurred in 2000, when then-President Clinton pocket-vetoed bankruptcy reform legislation at the request of First Lady Hillary Clinton, who had been convinced to do so by a little known Harvard professor and vocal reformer named Elizabeth Warren. Joe Biden, on the other hand, voted for the bill. Another bill in 2001 failed to pass with Biden's vote. But the 2001 bill was resurrected after George W. Bush's second inauguration.

The Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act (BAPCPA) was passed in April, 2005 by the U.S. Senate in a 74-25 vote, including the "yea" vote of Joe Biden, and was quickly signed by President Bush. (Hillary Clinton skipped the vote. She did vote "yea" on the unsuccessful 2001 bill, although she later claimed to regret the vote, and explained that she had traded her support in order to make sure that alimony and child support payments weren't compromised by the new law. More on that later.)

In light of what occurred in its wake, this law is easily one of the most disgraceful aspects of the Bush and Biden legacies. The harm it did to middle-class Americans, especially during the crushing events of the recession four years later, is immeasurable. The bill made it nearly impossible for average families to file Chapter 7 bankruptcy protection, also known as "clean slate" bankruptcies intended to discharge nearly all debts, a matter of a few years before they'd need it the most. The bill instituted an all new means test to determine whether debtors with insurmountable financial hardships earned enough income to pay back all or part of their unsecured debts, specifically credit debt. If they earned too much, a clean slate bankruptcy became impossible, and they'd be forced to file Chapter 13, which would force debtors to pay back their debt over a five-year timeline, thus legalizing neo-indentured-servitude to creditors.


snip


here is a 2018 article that deal with current attitude (and its a disastrous stance to take in terms of gaining younger voter support)

BIDEN DOESN'T WANT TO HEAR MILLENNIALS COMPLAIN: 'GIVE ME A BREAK'

https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-says-millennials-dont-have-it-tough-780348

Millennials who think that times are tough in 2018 have no room to complain, according to former Vice President Joe Biden, who said that he had “no empathy” for young people who compared today to the struggles of the 1960s.

“The younger generation now tells me how tough things are—give me a break,” said Biden, while speaking to Patt Morrison of the Los Angeles Times to promote his new book. “No, no, I have no empathy for it, give me a break.”

Biden compared the complaints of millennials to what he experienced growing up in the 1960s and '70s, mentioning the civil rights and women’s liberation movements that were gaining traction simultaneously with the Vietnam War, making the United States a troubling place for young activists at the time.

“Here’s the deal, guys,” continued Biden. “We decided we were going to change the world, and we did.”

Whether Biden agrees or not, there is evidence to support the idea that millennials, the generation born between the early 1980s and mid-'90s, have inherited a slew of problems that have put them at an economic disadvantage compared to previous generations. Millennials are more likely to have advanced college degrees, but earn 20 percent less than baby boomers when they were the same age. Healthcare, housing and education are more than five times more expensive than they were just a few decades ago, writer Michael Hobbes tells NPR. Student debt has skyrocketed, making home ownership unrealistic for many, reports Bloomberg. And the struggle to advocate for civil rights continues today, as recent movements like #MeToo, #BlackLivesMatter and #TimesUpNow have demonstrated.

snip


I do not know why you keep trying to convince me that Biden is the way to go for the top of the ticket. I am not going to change my mind. I will vote for him, obviously, if he is somehow the nominee, obviously, but IMHO he is far from our best bet.

Glad to know that David Sirota is now a RWer.
And Democracy Now and Amy Goodman and Bob Cesca and Salon.

And it's now, in your book, a RW ploy to interview Biden and quote him verbatim.

Next it will be a RW talking point when older posters bring up the Anita Hill/Clarence Thomas issues, something that I see here a lot.

So, no, not 'RW talking points'. Sorry, that is a just a cop out and a diversionary tactic IMHO.

Again, go try and change other people minds. I am not on some anti-Biden crusade. I only am still talking about him as you keep interacting with me about him. I have said I would vote for him if he is our nominee, and beyond that you have known where I stand since this began.

May the best Democratic person win! Good luck!

Last edited Thu Nov 22, 2018, 10:11 AM - Edit history (1)

...does the work of the Trumpsters.

Biden may be the Democratic nominee, or it might be Sanders, or Harris, or Booker.

If you don't think that I can dig up links that disparage any of the people I have cited here, you are sadly mistaken. But, if I do that to try to advance my preferred candidate, and my candidate loses out to one of the others listed here, I have to eat those words or accept Adolf Trump for another 4 years.

Have you learned nothing from 2016? It's hard to convince others to support a candidate you disparaged. To win a General Election we need more than just your vote, or the vote of people like you, we need full throated support. I, for one, have never and will never post a negative link about any Democrat.

Stop doing Trump's work for him, 2 years in advance.

The only one that Laughs Out Loud when they read the crap you posted here are Repukes.

And his throwing shade on us millennials and Gen Z was his idea, not mine. You act like there can be zero debate or discussion. That is not how this works. You alone do not have the power to decide for other people who to support. You make your best case for Biden, others will do a SWOT analysis of him and of their own preferred candidates. You obviously can then agree or disagree. It is not ok, however to then try impugn other peoples' motives or imply nefariousness to what is just open democratic debate.

Which rule does this post break?

Political

Support Democrats

Don't bash Democratic public figures

Don't peddle right-wing talking points, smears, or sources

Don't keep fighting the last Democratic presidential primary

...and I've been here since 2004 and I don't need you to explain DU's core principals.

I notice you didn't highlight "...who understand the importance of working together to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans..;"

Your links are not helpful and there are plenty of links that are out there that can give political fodder to our opponents about other Democratic candidates. For 15 years I have not taken the bait on these types of discussions and I will not start today.

I will never post a negative thing about any Democrat on this site.

Ever.

given the electoral college system and the likelihood of running against Donald Trump.

Biden is the perfect foil to Trump in every respect. And, as you identified, I think he'd close the deal in the industrial states that we lost narrowly.

In my heart, I'd like Cory Booker to be the next president. But Biden/Booker seems like the winning ticket to me.

I also deeply respect Kamala Harris and would be highly supportive of Biden/Harris is she is the one to catch fire over Booker. She'd be my next choice at this moment.

We need to win. And should have a VP who is then well-positioned to lead the party.

Kamala Harris is certainly a rising star.

That is on the assumption that the campaigns and debates focus on policy and competence, not gotcha.

Let the nation see who the Dems have and pick the strongest ones as a unity ticket.

But, look at the math. We need Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan. Biden gives us the best chance because he can take 5% of the Trump vote from him. Biden's age does not hurt us in the 2 oldest states in America: Florida and Arizona.

I don't need a candidate who helps us win New York and California by 45 points instead of 35, but lose the mid-west states by 1%. This is not about what makes you feel good. It's about winning. I didn't invent the electoral college, but we Democrats better figure out to make it work in our favor.

We may not nominate the strongest candidate if we vote with our hearts. We better vote with our heads or we will lose.

Carter was in his early 50s. I'm not counting Johnson since he inherited the job. We win running younger.

Dukakis ran a bad campaign. Had Gary Hart not shot himself in the foot, he might have had a shot against Reagan. Mondale, not so much.

Maybe Harris - Biden. Sell the voters that Joe will be there to consult and offer his expertise and take over if (God forbid) needed.

I just want to win, that's all. I don't give a fuck who beats Trump. but, the way the demographics are going, we need to hold on to the you votes and the minorities and still make some inroads to our former white, male blue collar base. Hence the ticket: Biden-Harris.

He looked young compared to Reagan but old compared to Gary Hart

Bigger picture demographic - Baby Boomers are no longer the biggest voting bloc. We need younger candidates.

to me.

I don’t see anyone else that can balance the Orange Horror.

onerous student loans through bankruptcy. He represented the banks of Delaware well, but not millions of former students across the country who will find out that their student loans are non-dischargeable, even in bankruptcy.

He also let down millions of women by the way he handled the Anita Hill hearings. We will never be "comfortable" with that.

Surely we can find a candidate who is just as "comfortable" to the all-important white male as Biden is.

You make a very strong case for Kamala Harris. I'd be very happy to support her for president.

As wonderful as Biden is, the genius of the Democratic Party has always laid in the inspiration of its young leaders. People simply shouldn't hang around in positions in leadership in a democratic society.

How long is too long? I don't have an answer. There's not a hard number. But when we're out of power, the time is propitious for letting a new guard step forward. Democracy needs to see the renewal of leadership coming out of the people. At a time when we are drifting toward oligarchy and losing the fundamentals of our republican form of government, this is what will renew us: new voices, new ideas, new Trustees for the Republic.

The founding fathers spilled a lot of ink talking about the need for a rotation in office. It's high time we did that, and that our old lions be old lions. And I say this as someone who all but worships Joe Biden and just posted a defense of Nancy Pelosi for speaker. Kamala or Beto or Senator Tester or Senator Brown or whoever we nominate don't need to be anybody's understudy.

I'm 55 and I'm ready to have a president who's younger than me. You punks still need to get off my lawn, but I trust America enough to pass the torch

I'm sick and tired of fighting for the benefit of people that should vote for Democrats no matter what, like the young voters, only for them to hold the rest of us hostage if they don't get their way.

I will vote for and support whoever the Democrats nominate. Young voters should do the same thing. We lost 2 elections in which we won the popular vote. We don't need to win New York and California by 55 points. We need to take 5 percent of Trump's voters in the Mid-West and place them in our column. By the way, the 2 oldest states by demographics are Florida and Arizona. We will have no trouble carrying the traditional Democratic states no matter who we nominate. Who is the best candidate for Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Florida and Arizona? The answer is clear: Biden.

Last edited Tue Nov 20, 2018, 03:29 PM - Edit history (1)

The Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act (BAPCPA) was passed in April, 2005 by the U.S. Senate in a 74-25 vote, including the "yea" vote of Joe Biden, and was quickly signed by President Bush.
https://www.salon.com/2015/10/21/joe_bidens_greatest_betrayal_the_one_senate_vote_that_makes_it_hard_to_support_a_biden_run/

I live in Arizona. I don't want Biden.

and none of our candidates are without warts, believe me.

You keep tearing down our probable nominee, and others tear down the opponents and we can have 4 more years of Hitler. It's up to you.

Let me give you a little info about me. I'm 66 years old and married. I have no children. My wife and I own a house outside of Boston and another in a foreign country on 25 acres. I have a union pension (although I still work) Social Security and an annuity. So does my wife. I donate at least $10,000 to Democratic causes a year and a major part of my full-time union job is political activity.

I have cajoled, begged, argued, educated and attempted to convince people to vote for the Democrat in every race I've been involved in. But, here's the kicker. If people want to destroy this country (and re-electing Trump will accomplish that) I will be heart broken. But you will find few middle class Americans better prepared to escape this catastrophe than me and my wife.

After many years of political service, my best recommendation to win the election in 2020 is a Biden-Harris ticket. I'm looking at the electoral college. Here are the key states. I've already crossed off Ohio and Missouri. The younger and further left you go, the more apt we are to lose those two states. We will win all 6 New England states. Any Democrat will win MD., DC, Del, NY, all of New England, NY, NJ, Virginia, Wash, Oregon, Colorado, NM, Nev., Ill and Minnesota.

So, where's the election won or lost? Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, (all blue collar states where Biden is far more electable than anyone else) and the 2 states with the highest age demographic, Florida and Arizona.

I agree that Kamala Harris or Cory Booker would be great to pad our wins in states we are certain to win, like New York and California. But the Democrats have won the popular vote in 5 of the last 6 elections, and only won 2 electoral college victories.

I don't want to win the popular vote by 5% and lose the election. I want to win the election.

But, in the end, I'm on this earth for just another 10 or 15 years and my plans are to get the fuck out of this country if the morons get another 4 years.

I thought you wanted to win over blue collar voters or push the candidate more likely to win. Bernie Sanders did well in Wisconsin & Michigan primaries so we at least need a worker friendly candidate plus he polls at 54% with Independents. HRC lost independents.

I don't think Michigan will go for Trump again no matter who we nominate but don't go with someone with high unfavorability ratings.

Plus Biden is likely to say something stupid but I know it won't matter much compared to Trump.

Bernie had no negative press. Hillary didn't want to alienate his supporters and Trump was using him to divide the Democrats.

Biden is the easiest path to victory in 2020.

And, when we keep talking about Obama, who I worked my ass off in the General (mostly in NH), if the economy didn't collapse, I think we would have lost that. Go back and check the polls on Sept. 11, 2008 and then on Sept. 20 2008. The Market collapsed on Sept. 15.

McCain did have a lead around that time period but Obama was in the lead earlier than that point as well as after.

GWU/Battleground 9/7 - 9/11 44 48 McCain +4
Associated Press/GfK 9/5 - 9/10 44 48 McCain +4
FOX News 9/8 - 9/9 42 45 McCain +3
Gallup Tracking 9/7 - 9/9 43 48 McCain +5
Rasmussen Tracking 9/7 - 9/9 48 47 Obama +1
Hotline/FD Tracking 9/7 - 9/9 45 45 Tie
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl 9/6 - 9/8 46 45 Obama +1
ABC News/Wash Post 9/5 - 9/7 47 49 McCain +2
USA Today/Gallup 9/5 - 9/7 44 54 McCain +10
CBS News* 9/5 - 9/7 44 46 McCain +2
CNN/OpinionResearch 9/5 - 9/7 48 48 Tie
IBD/TIPP 9/2 - 9/7 45 40 Obama +5
CBS News 9/1 - 9/3 42 42 Tie
Gallup Tracking 8/30 - 9/1 50 42 Obama +8
Rasmussen Tracking 8/30 - 9/1 51 45 Obama +6
USAT/Gallup Tracking* 8/30 - 8/31 50 43 Obama +7
CNN 8/29 - 8/31 49 48 Obama +1
Hotline/FD 8/29 - 8/31 48 39 Obama +9
CBS News 8/29 - 8/31 48 40 Obama +8
Gallup Tracking 8/23 - 8/25 44 46 McCain +2
Rasmussen Tracking 8/23 - 8/25 46 46 Tie
CNN 8/23 - 8/24 47 47 Tie
Hotline/FD 8/18 - 8/24 44 40 Obama +4
USA Today/Gallup 8/21 - 8/23 48 45 Obama +3
ABC News/Wash Post 8/19 - 8/22 49 45 Obama +4
FOX News 8/19 - 8/20 42 39 Obama +3
CBS News/NY Times 8/15 - 8/19 45 42 Obama +3
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl 8/15 - 8/18 45 42 Obama +3
LA Times/Bloomberg 8/15 - 8/18 45 43 Obama +2
Gallup Tracking 8/15 - 8/17 46 43 Obama +3
Rasmussen Tracking 8/15 - 8/17 47 46 Obama +1
Reuters/Zogby 8/14 - 8/16 41 46 McCain +5
Quinnipiac 8/12 - 8/17 47 42 Obama +5
Battleground 8/10 - 8/14 46 47 McCain +1
IBD/TIPP 8/4 - 8/9 43 38 Obama +5
Pew Research 7/31 - 8/10 46 43 Obama +3
CBS News 7/31 - 8/5 45 39 Obama +6
Gallup Tracking 8/1 - 8/3 46 43 Obama +3
Rasmussen Tracking 8/1 - 8/3 46 47 McCain +1
Time 7/31 - 8/4 46 41 Obama +5
AP-Ipsos 7/31 - 8/4 48 42 Obama +6
CNN 7/27 - 7/29 51 44 Obama +7
USA Today/Gallup 7/25 - 7/27 45 49 McCain +4
Pew Research 7/23 - 7/27 47 42 Obama +5
Democracy Corps (D) 7/21 - 7/24 50 45 Obama +5
FOX News 7/22 - 7/23 41 40 Obama +1
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl 7/18 - 7/21 47 41 Obama +6
Gallup Tracking 7/13 - 7/15 47 44 Obama +3
Rasmussen Tracking 7/13 - 7/15 48 45 Obama +3
CBS News/NY Times 7/7 - 7/14 45 39 Obama +6
ABC News/Wash Post 7/10 - 7/13 49 46 Obama +3
Reuters/Zogby 7/9 - 7/13 47 40 Obama +7
Quinnipiac 7/8 - 7/13 50 41 Obama +9
IBD/TIPP 7/7 - 7/11 40 37 Obama +3
Newsweek 7/9 - 7/10 44 41 Obama +3
Gallup 6/30 - 7/2 47 43 Obama +4
Rasmussen 6/29 - 7/1 49 44 Obama +5
CNN 6/26 - 6/29 50 45 Obama +5
McLaughlin (R) 6/26 - 6/29 46 38 Obama +8
Pew Research 6/18 - 6/29 48 40 Obama +8
Democracy Corps (D) 6/22 - 6/25 49 45 Obama +4
Time 6/19 - 6/25 47 43 Obama +4
LA Times/Bloomberg 6/19 - 6/23 49 37 Obama +12
F&M/Hearst-Argyle 6/16 - 6/22 42 36 Obama +6
Newsweek 6/18 - 6/19 51 36 Obama +15
FOX News 6/17 - 6/18 45 41 Obama +4
USA Today/Gallup 6/15 - 6/19 50 44 Obama +6
ABC News/Wash Post 6/12 - 6/15 49 45 Obama +4
Cook/RT Strategies 6/12 - 6/15 44 40 Obama +4
Reuters/Zogby 6/12 - 6/14 47 42 Obama +5
Ipsos 6/5 - 6/11 50 43 Obama +7
Rasmussen 6/8 - 6/10 49 44 Obama +5
Gallup 6/7 - 6/9 48 41 Obama +7
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl 6/6 - 6/9 47 41 Obama +6
Hotline/FD 6/5 - 6/8 44 42 Obama +2
IBD/TIPP 6/2 - 6/8 43 40 Obama +3
CNN 6/4 - 6/5 49 46 Obama +3
CBS News 5/30 - 6/3 48 42 Obama +6
USA Today/Gallup 5/30 - 6/1 47 44 Obama +3
Cook/RT Strategies 5/29 - 5/31 44 43 Obama +1
Pew Research 5/21 - 5/25 47 44 Obama +3
Newsweek 5/21 - 5/22 46 46 Tie

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html#polls

Plus the Iraq war was a mess which was a big issue plus Bush was unpopular before the economy tanked and the tea party blamed Obama anyway for the economy when he took office in January.

Looks like McCain had a 3 to 5 point lead right up to Sept. 11 in the last 4 polls and a 10 point lead in a Gallup poll on Sept. 9.

GWU/Battleground 9/7 - 9/11 44 48 McCain +4
Associated Press/GfK 9/5 - 9/10 44 48 McCain +4
FOX News 9/8 - 9/9 42 45 McCain +3
Gallup Tracking 9/7 - 9/9 43 48 McCain +5
Rasmussen Tracking 9/7 - 9/9 48 47 Obama +1
Hotline/FD Tracking 9/7 - 9/9 45 45 Tie
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl 9/6 - 9/8 46 45 Obama +1
ABC News/Wash Post 9/5 - 9/7 47 49 McCain +2
USA Today/Gallup 9/5 - 9/7 44 54 McCain +10
CBS News* 9/5 - 9/7 44 46 McCain +2
CNN/OpinionResearch 9/5 - 9/7 48 48 Tie


The collapse came on Sept. 15.

Thanks for your confirmation.

You pick a small window where McCain had a lead and suggest he would have won the election when in fact he was trailing Obama as early as June most of the time.

It isn't like McCain was ahead the whole time til the economy collapsed. In fact Obama lead the vast majority of the time. In July 2008 even I knew a recession was coming.

Yes, I agree!


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Think it would energize and lock in the black vote because her dad was black. But I don't think that would be the case.

She is not in Obama's circumstance. Both her parents are immigrants not black people from the US and she is married to a white man. Yes I realize that Obama's dad was from africa but Michelle made him relatable to a lot of black people. Also the fact that as an adult he was part of a black church and community in Chicago.

Also some of the harshest criticism I've seen against Harris has been from black people who knew her years ago. Stuff I won't repeat but would come out during a presidential run. I think when some black people learn more of her background they would not support her or be that enthusiastic. It would not be a large percentage but enough to make a difference.

And I am a black woman for the record.

I first heard of Harris was from the AA forum

Kind of Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) | |
5. I think we can keep this going? Why not eventually...
President????
Keeping my fingers crossed though that Cooley is not going to pull any kind of hinkey, like the ass in Alaska. He surely looks like he's not even ready to concede to a woman, let alone a black woman. Bracing for the fight.

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=258x10763

and her policy positions would help African Americans. Why wouldn't black people support her? She can't help it that her parents are immigrants lol. I'm a black male and haven't heard any 'negative' stuff about her from years ago. She is smart as a whip, progressive, and I see no reason why I would NOT support her. Her being married to a white man is something I could careless about.

that can be a huge issue. Harris will get lots of coverage but I am not sure she can help with midwest votes. Biden is certainly the most qualified candidate by a mile but will he generate enough enthusiasm and excitement like Obama did in 2008? Another option is Biden/Tammy Baldwin. Tammy would help with midwest, wouldnt she?
It does seem like we must have a woman on the ticket to get media interested.

Another VP choice I like is Eric Swalwell. Adding youth and sensibility, with Harris gathering experience and national strength for the future. I would not be surprised if Joe indicates it is for one term. Would love to see Amy Klobuchar as a future President -- or on the Supreme Court, appointed by Joe.

Our depth is significant, but we really NEED that magic combo of persona and experience to repair the damage done by Trump and the GOP. Looks like Swalwell is going to run.

No longer a great fan of Booker. Showboat? Was a big fan of the show Brick City highlighting his actions as mayor, but less enamored now.

ANYONE except Gillibrand!!!!!! Either for first or second on any ticket. My Franken rage remains incandescent.