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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNo, the 'burden of proof' on Mitt's taxes does not rest on Democrats
No, the 'burden of proof' on Mitt's taxes does not rest on Democrats
by Hunter
All right, now this is just getting silly:
I'm not sure how Mitt Romney pulling a number out of his (censored) and saying that settles the argument counts as "calling the Democrat's bluff." I'm also intrigued by the notion that by claiming he paid, golly gee, at least the pitifully low figure of 13 percent as taxes somehow now makes Mitt Romney look like the good guy. Thirteen percent counting what? For how many years? On how many millions of dollars, and how can the rest of us get in on such a sweet, sweet tax rate?
Narrowly, however, I'm intrigued by this whole burden of proof argument. Mitt Romney has, I might gently point out, not "proved" a damn thing. He has asserted something, without evidence. He has asserted it without evidence because he is explicitly withholding the evidence, and the evidence being withheldtax returnsis something that other politicians are regularly expected to provide. Even Mitt's own father recognized the inherent dishonesty of not doing such a thing, so I really don't think the Democrats are in a real bind if they think that Mitt Romney asserting something without evidence is not, in fact, the automatic end of the story. I know of no literary mystery that ends with the suspect saying "I did not do that," upon which all the policemen and detectives go on their merry way, considering the case closed. I realize that this is an argument about a rich person's money, and as the MF Global Goldman Sachs and countless other cases have demonstrated in the last few years, the entire planet is supposed to bend down on one knee when a rich person makes an assertion about the provenance of their money or what might they might have accidentally done with yours, but still. Really?
Mitt Romney has so much money in his retirement account alone that outside observers struggle to come up with any way someone could even do such a thing without extraordinary luck or considerably more ordinary dishonesty. Here's a guy with bank accounts in all the usual places used by wealthy people to hide their money where Uncle Sam won't know about it or can't do anything about it. We've already caught him lying through his teeth, repeatedly, about when he supposedly even "left" the company that made him so very wealthy. Being so Broderesque as to say "well, but he says everything else is on the up and up, so I guess now his opponents are the bad guys if they question him" is too "balanced" by half.
For the record, yes, a great many people have been calling Mitt Romney a liar for some time now. I don't know whether he's lying about the 13 percent figure, but he's lied so brazenly about so many other thingseven the obsessively faux-neutral Politifact has documentation enough of thatthat I do not think Just Because Mitt Said So really ought to be used as the argument-ender that he wants it to be. I am sorry if that makes me a bad person, but I am very, very tired of taking the very rich man's word for it when he says he's not lying about his goddamn money. He wants to become the leader of the nation, and that, of necessity, requires a level of scrutiny that he needs to just suck up and deal with already.
Nobody but Harry Reid can vouch for things asserted by Harry Reid, but it is distinctly not the Democrats' fault if they hold him to the same level of accountability that has been considered standard fare for every other politician but Mitt Romney.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/16/1120914/-No-the-burden-of-proof-on-Mitt-s-taxes-does-not-rest-on-Democrats
by Hunter
All right, now this is just getting silly:
Romneys answer wont satisfy everyone. (More on that below.) But, in asserting that for the last decade he has never paid less than a 13 percent tax rate, Romney is calling Democrats bluff and forcing them now to call him a liar if they argue that he paid any less. In short: The burden of proof has now shifted from Romney to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and the Democratic party more broadly.
I'm not sure how Mitt Romney pulling a number out of his (censored) and saying that settles the argument counts as "calling the Democrat's bluff." I'm also intrigued by the notion that by claiming he paid, golly gee, at least the pitifully low figure of 13 percent as taxes somehow now makes Mitt Romney look like the good guy. Thirteen percent counting what? For how many years? On how many millions of dollars, and how can the rest of us get in on such a sweet, sweet tax rate?
Narrowly, however, I'm intrigued by this whole burden of proof argument. Mitt Romney has, I might gently point out, not "proved" a damn thing. He has asserted something, without evidence. He has asserted it without evidence because he is explicitly withholding the evidence, and the evidence being withheldtax returnsis something that other politicians are regularly expected to provide. Even Mitt's own father recognized the inherent dishonesty of not doing such a thing, so I really don't think the Democrats are in a real bind if they think that Mitt Romney asserting something without evidence is not, in fact, the automatic end of the story. I know of no literary mystery that ends with the suspect saying "I did not do that," upon which all the policemen and detectives go on their merry way, considering the case closed. I realize that this is an argument about a rich person's money, and as the MF Global Goldman Sachs and countless other cases have demonstrated in the last few years, the entire planet is supposed to bend down on one knee when a rich person makes an assertion about the provenance of their money or what might they might have accidentally done with yours, but still. Really?
Mitt Romney has so much money in his retirement account alone that outside observers struggle to come up with any way someone could even do such a thing without extraordinary luck or considerably more ordinary dishonesty. Here's a guy with bank accounts in all the usual places used by wealthy people to hide their money where Uncle Sam won't know about it or can't do anything about it. We've already caught him lying through his teeth, repeatedly, about when he supposedly even "left" the company that made him so very wealthy. Being so Broderesque as to say "well, but he says everything else is on the up and up, so I guess now his opponents are the bad guys if they question him" is too "balanced" by half.
For the record, yes, a great many people have been calling Mitt Romney a liar for some time now. I don't know whether he's lying about the 13 percent figure, but he's lied so brazenly about so many other thingseven the obsessively faux-neutral Politifact has documentation enough of thatthat I do not think Just Because Mitt Said So really ought to be used as the argument-ender that he wants it to be. I am sorry if that makes me a bad person, but I am very, very tired of taking the very rich man's word for it when he says he's not lying about his goddamn money. He wants to become the leader of the nation, and that, of necessity, requires a level of scrutiny that he needs to just suck up and deal with already.
Nobody but Harry Reid can vouch for things asserted by Harry Reid, but it is distinctly not the Democrats' fault if they hold him to the same level of accountability that has been considered standard fare for every other politician but Mitt Romney.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/16/1120914/-No-the-burden-of-proof-on-Mitt-s-taxes-does-not-rest-on-Democrats
Jon Huntsman Sr., longtime Romney backer, calls on him to release tax returns:
The internet is alive with speculation that the secret source Harry Reid claims to have on Mitt Romneys tax returns is Utah industrialist Jon Huntsman Sr. He is the founder of Hunstman Corporation and the father of the former GOP presidential candidate and the speculation is based on the fact that his profile fits with much of what we publicly know about Reids presumed confidante.
But I just got off the phone with Huntsman, and he confirmed to me that he is not Reids source.
However, in a move that could be significant, Huntsman forcefully called on Romney to release his tax returns. This matters, because Huntsman is a longtime backer of Romney he has long been close to Romney; he supported his early campaigns; he was the national finance chairman of Romneys 2008 presidential campaign; and he has raised a lot of money for him over the years. (He backed his own son in the latest GOP primary.)
I feel very badly that Mitt wont release his taxes and wont be fair with the American people, Huntsman told me. In a reference to Romneys father, who pioneered the release of returns as a presidential candidate, Huntsman said: I loved George. He always said, pay your taxes for at least 10 or 12 years.
- more -
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/jon-huntsman-sr-longtime-romney-backer-calls-on-him-to-release-tax-returns/2012/08/10/9f343a8c-e312-11e1-98e7-89d659f9c106_blog.html
But I just got off the phone with Huntsman, and he confirmed to me that he is not Reids source.
However, in a move that could be significant, Huntsman forcefully called on Romney to release his tax returns. This matters, because Huntsman is a longtime backer of Romney he has long been close to Romney; he supported his early campaigns; he was the national finance chairman of Romneys 2008 presidential campaign; and he has raised a lot of money for him over the years. (He backed his own son in the latest GOP primary.)
I feel very badly that Mitt wont release his taxes and wont be fair with the American people, Huntsman told me. In a reference to Romneys father, who pioneered the release of returns as a presidential candidate, Huntsman said: I loved George. He always said, pay your taxes for at least 10 or 12 years.
- more -
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/jon-huntsman-sr-longtime-romney-backer-calls-on-him-to-release-tax-returns/2012/08/10/9f343a8c-e312-11e1-98e7-89d659f9c106_blog.html
Like father like son: Both Huntsmans say Romney should release taxes:
Former Utah governor and presidential candidate Jon Huntsman joined his father in criticizing Mitt Romney for not releasing more tax returns, taking a direct shot at the man he professes to support.
"Anyone running for president should be willing to at least meet the standards required of those who will be appointed and confirmed by the Senate for senior executive branch positions. Something Im familiar with having been confirmed three times," Huntsman said. "This is called leadership by example."
<...>
The Romney campaign has released one partial year of the candidates 2010 tax returns and has said it will release the 2011 return when it is ready. But Romney has steadfastly refused to release any additional tax returns, breaking with a long-standing tradition among presidential candidates.
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/54678474-90/romney-huntsman-release-returns.html.csp
"Anyone running for president should be willing to at least meet the standards required of those who will be appointed and confirmed by the Senate for senior executive branch positions. Something Im familiar with having been confirmed three times," Huntsman said. "This is called leadership by example."
<...>
The Romney campaign has released one partial year of the candidates 2010 tax returns and has said it will release the 2011 return when it is ready. But Romney has steadfastly refused to release any additional tax returns, breaking with a long-standing tradition among presidential candidates.
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/54678474-90/romney-huntsman-release-returns.html.csp
Mitt Romney Taxes For 2010 Not Fully Disclosed:
WASHINGTON -- Mitt Romney has not released his full tax records from 2010, including key documentation connected to his Swiss bank account.
Although President Barack Obama and an increasing number of Republican politicians have called on Romney to release tax returns from years prior to 2010, the public criticism has so far failed to note that Romney has not disclosed all of his tax documents for 2010 itself -- the only year for which the GOP presidential nominee has presented any final tax forms.
Romney released his 2010 tax return in January of this year, a document that first informed voters about the existence of his Swiss bank account and financial activities in Bermuda and the Cayman Islands. But people who own foreign bank accounts are required to file a separate document with the IRS that provides additional details on such overseas bank holdings, and Romney has not released that form to the public.
The Romney campaign did not respond to HuffPost's request to view the document.
Tax experts say it is almost certain that Romney did file the form, known as a Report on Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts, or "FBAR" in accountant slang. The penalty for not filing an FBAR can be severe, and the IRS would have expected to receive the form since Romney listed the Swiss bank account on his tax return. Listing the account on his tax return and then failing to file the subsequent FBAR would have been asking for a hefty fine, and would probably have heightened IRS scrutiny of prior tax filings.
- more -
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/18/mitt-romney-taxes-2010_n_1683084.html
Although President Barack Obama and an increasing number of Republican politicians have called on Romney to release tax returns from years prior to 2010, the public criticism has so far failed to note that Romney has not disclosed all of his tax documents for 2010 itself -- the only year for which the GOP presidential nominee has presented any final tax forms.
Romney released his 2010 tax return in January of this year, a document that first informed voters about the existence of his Swiss bank account and financial activities in Bermuda and the Cayman Islands. But people who own foreign bank accounts are required to file a separate document with the IRS that provides additional details on such overseas bank holdings, and Romney has not released that form to the public.
The Romney campaign did not respond to HuffPost's request to view the document.
Tax experts say it is almost certain that Romney did file the form, known as a Report on Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts, or "FBAR" in accountant slang. The penalty for not filing an FBAR can be severe, and the IRS would have expected to receive the form since Romney listed the Swiss bank account on his tax return. Listing the account on his tax return and then failing to file the subsequent FBAR would have been asking for a hefty fine, and would probably have heightened IRS scrutiny of prior tax filings.
- more -
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/18/mitt-romney-taxes-2010_n_1683084.html
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No, the 'burden of proof' on Mitt's taxes does not rest on Democrats (Original Post)
ProSense
Aug 2012
OP
ananda
(28,876 posts)1. Hear hear!
nt
The Magistrate
(95,255 posts)2. Hell, Ma'am, We Already Know He Lies About What is In His Tax Returns
That he lied about this in running for governor of Massachusetts is a matter of public record.
There is no reason whatever to trust a word that comes out of this congenital liar's mouth!
If he wants to be believed, he has to produce the returns....
"Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus."
"Romney loves America like a tick loves a dog."
russspeakeasy
(6,539 posts)3. Does the 13% include property, sales tax, etc ??
Show us your fuckin taxes loser. Oh, and keep your wife on air; she scares the shit out of most people.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)5. No shit! n/t
phantom power
(25,966 posts)4. the only true proof is his returns - we can't release them, only he can