General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsA taste of Flynn's roasting...
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
Seth chiming in too
Link to tweet
2/ Flynn was also heavily involved in some aspects of the "grand bargain" component of Trump-Russia collusionacting as a go-between between certain Middle Eastern nations and Trump on the possibility of Trump giving nuclear tech to those nations. That too may stay closely held.
3/ Mueller isn't *obligated* to reveal everything he and Flynn discussedonly what he chooses to reveal and feels is necessary to guide the court in sentencing. Iffor instancehe thinks Flynn has been highly cooperative and isn't seeking a hefty sentence, he can leave much out.
4/ Consider what happened with Papadopoulos. Mueller changed his mind on how well Papadopoulos cooperated, so he put *more* inculpatory facts into his sentencing memo. But if Papadopoulosor Flynnwere highly cooperative, he might choose not to lay out as many inculpatory facts
Cirque du So-What
(25,965 posts)Incineration is more like it.
vlyons
(10,252 posts)Benedict Arnold awaits his arrival in Hell
Baitball Blogger
(46,754 posts)Roland99
(53,342 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,754 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,397 posts)Article includes dossier.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/kenbensinger/these-reports-allege-trump-has-deep-ties-to-russia
Roland99
(53,342 posts)1/ As with George Papadopoulos, Mueller only charged Flynn with 1 count of Making False Statements before he secured his cooperation on a host of Trump-Russia collusion-related issues that he *hadn't* charged. That means the amount of time Flynn can get in prison is very limited.
2/ That fact raises a question about how much it benefits Mueller to reveal the full extent of the information he received from Flynn. If he wanted Flynn to do the maximum amount of time on the one charge brought against him, he *could* put in all the inculpatory evidence he has.
3/ On the other hand, revealing certain evidence today could be harmful to indictments Mueller wants to issue tomorrowperhaps against individuals "above" Flynn. So today presents Mueller with a complex balancing act of short- and long-term investigative and prosecutorial goals.
4/ The more Mueller reveals, the more the court learns that could lead it to harshly sentence Flynn on the one count against him. But the more Flynn cooperated, the more Mueller may be all right with some leniency, giving him the leeway to *not* reveal everything Flynn gave him.
5/ Mueller also could *redact* certain information, or otherwise get the court to place certain information under seal, allowing him to both present it to the court for consideration for a harsher sentencing while *also* keeping it from public view for the sake of future charges.
6/ So Mueller must balance all five of these considerations:
1. Flynn's level of cooperation.
2. His desired outcome in the Flynn sentencing.
3. The danger of current revelations to future cases.
4. The public's right/need to know.
5. His need to get info out before he's fired.
7/ Redactions can help Mueller craft the cost/benefit matrix this memo is. So too would alluding to certain conduct in terms that don't reveal all he has on that issue. So too would leaving out intel Flynn gave him that's not inculpatory as to Flynn but inculpatory as to others.
8/ In short, what we should look for, broadly, are signs of how cooperative and useful Mueller feels Flynn has been in the year since he entered a plea. Given that Flynn is at the heart of many of the allegations of collusion, if he's deemed *very* useful that tells us something.
9/ A danger for journalists and laypeople today is focusing on *just* the facts Mueller reveals and *not* the through-line of what kind of witness Flynn was broadly seen to be. If we focus just on thosepossibly deliberately limitedfacts, we could come to some wrong conclusions.
10/ In essence, today's memo can only *further* the case for collusion with any key facts it reveals. The chance that an *absence* of key facts (or simply fewer than we'd like to see) means conclusively that Flynn had little to offer the Mueller investigation is far smaller. /end
PS/ One thing I do want to emphasize, though, is that Flynn *is* one of the *key* witnesses in Mueller's collusion case. So its certainly true that if the case is what experts think it to be, Flynn's cooperation and testimony *is* crucial. Flynn's role in collusion was expansive.
erronis
(15,326 posts)here at DU and also working to uncover the treachery of the trump/putin/plutocrat mob.
FakeNoose
(32,711 posts)I believe Abramson is using this Trump-Russia material in his law school classes. (He's a professor) That would explain why he's up to date on all this stuff. Also I believe he has contacts that follow Russian social media and Russian news, or maybe he's fluent in Russian himself. He seems to have a lot of wide-ranging info available.
PatSeg
(47,560 posts)I would have thought that "intelligence" would have been a qualification.
The whole damn bunch is dumber than dirt!
lunatica
(53,410 posts)That warm feeling that were in good hands, protected, safe in the hands of the most patriotic and intelligent people.
How many more Mike Flynns are out there protecting us? At least Obama realized he was unsuitable and fired him.
Haggis for Breakfast
(6,831 posts)John Brennan, James Clapper, Mike Hayden if we allow traitors like Flynn to be the bar by which we measure national security officials.
dlk
(11,574 posts)When you look at it, the entire GOP exhibits many of the characteristics of Narcissistic Personality Disorder, from the exaggerated sense of self and feelings of entitlement, on down through lack of empathy and taking advantage of others to get what they want. It's not just Trump with NPD. There's an epidemic on the right and we are all paying the price.
PatSeg
(47,560 posts)"I've got mine" party who never has enough. Also, they are chronic victims.
LittleGirl
(8,287 posts)That is it exactly! Thanks for the light bulb moment reading that! Cheers.
bigbrother05
(5,995 posts)He had attained a level of leadership that indicated he could handle the job. When it became clear he was misusing the office to his own purposes he was removed.
PatSeg
(47,560 posts)Resentful enough to commit treason evidently.
Nitram
(22,845 posts)treason.
bigbrother05
(5,995 posts)The more things change, the more they stay the same. The world is full of self-absorbed people who don't think through the consequences of their actions.
djacq
(1,634 posts)dlk
(11,574 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,397 posts)It would be great to see Hillary cross off the chanters one by one as they are indicted. "There goes another one. Lock him up!"
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)....is going to be mostly forgiven and he won't pay the price that other treasonous people have.
BUT, on the other hand, hopefully much of what he's been telling Mueller and gang will bring down the top guy and end this "long national nightmare".
Roland99
(53,342 posts)There must a LOT waiting in the wings for those higher up the Treason Train!
dlk
(11,574 posts)And on down the line with the Republicans who were never punished for their serious crimes. It set a precedent, unfortunately.
roscoeroscoe
(1,370 posts)Like a certain Governor of Alaska...
ffr
(22,671 posts)Pence probably knew Flynn was a foreign agent and did nothing except lie to the press about it.
flamingdem
(39,316 posts)the possibility of Trump giving nuclear tech to those nations.
LittleGirl
(8,287 posts)Thanks for sharing!
Hekate
(90,769 posts)Someday I'd like to know (briefly) what was the arc of this man's thinking and behavior.
peggysue2
(10,836 posts)that Flynn could not and would not get a handle on his anger, all stemming from President Obama dismissing him as defense intelligence chief. Flynn claimed it was for holding opposing views on Islamic extremism but US officials said it was for insubordination, failing to follow orders.
A lot of ego involved in all this and like the Trumpster, General Flynn appears to have been vindictive enough to blow up his entire career and life to get even. As well as compromising his own country which he had sworn an oath to protect.
This entire Administration is comprised of broken, angry, greedy and delusional people.
Perfect marks for Putin and his gang. How easily they fell.