General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCould the Democratic Party be the new home for Evangelicals?
Hold on - hear me out!!!
I'm trying to picture a scenario where we break the Evangelicals away from the GOP - leaving the GOP stuck with the Nationalists.
Clearly - Abortion is the hitch.
But maybe with the new court picks from Trump - the abortion people might be placated? I know that seems doubtful.
The reason I was thinking about this - I see a lot of white Mennonite families that have adopted kids from other cultures. Not unusual to see Korean or black kids with white Mennonite families here in rural PA.
Maybe there is a way to appeal to this sense and open-ness seen in the Mennos?
Think about it.
50 Shades Of Blue
(9,993 posts)Roland99
(53,342 posts)CBS Airs Documentary Featuring the Stories of Ex-Evangelical Christians
https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2018/12/06/cbs-airs-documentary-featuring-the-stories-of-ex-evangelical-christians/
packman
(16,296 posts)As for the Mennos - cheap labor.
Sorry, I have a low opinion about religion.
JCMach1
(27,558 posts)Backed by a 'newly' political Evangelical block. People forget that... Talking about 1976, not 1980
But no, I don't see it happening...
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)I was too young to vote at the time, but the only time in his life that my father did not vote for a Democrat for president was 1980. He voted John Anderson because he thought Reagan only cared for the rich and he was very uncomfortable with Carter being so openly religious.
Zorro
(15,740 posts)for his strong religious beliefs. Now evangelicals are hardcore Republicans committed to Trump, their "Christian" exemplar.
Caliman73
(11,738 posts)Even though Carter was deeply religious, it was a personal faith and while it may have guided his policy decisions in general, he did not have an agenda of establishing the dominance of his particular views over those of other people. His philanthropy, his work with the disadvantaged, and his general world view is informed by his faith, but he is not trying to convert or dominate other through that faith.
The current strain of "religious" people in the conservative movement are not even Evangelicals really. They are Christian Dominionists. They want nothing less than a total domination of Christianity over this secular country. If they can achieve that at the expense of other faiths, they will then turn against each other for the dominance of their particular sects.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)but at the time in the late 70s, it was highly unusual for a politician to be openly religious like that.
Brawndo
(535 posts)ask yourself why would you want the Democratic Party to be burdened with such shameless anti-american hypocrites?
hexola
(4,835 posts)Regardless if we get the votes or not - I feel it's essential to drive a wedge between the Nationalists and Evangelicals.
Brawndo
(535 posts)Anyone who looked at tRump and saw leadership will not be missed.
Atticus
(15,124 posts)Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)hexola
(4,835 posts)...They vote GOP just like most everybody in Central PA.
I always thought Mennos were of the anabaptist tradition and were considered in the Evangelical flock.
Freddie
(9,265 posts)I think some of the stricter Mennonite orders are like Amish and dont have much to do with things like politics.
I live in an area with lots of Mennonites (PA) and each congregation is different in how modern they are. Unfortunately the more modern ones have bought into the pro-life bullshit.
hexola
(4,835 posts)And that's why Im lumping Mennos in with the Evangelicals - I think the "modern ones" are more Anabaptist evangelical types - who have fallen for the Nationalist crud.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)Methodists, Baptists, Pentecostals, some Lutherans; lots of Catholics vote Republican, but that doesn't make them Evangelicals.
Freddie
(9,265 posts)Spreading the word of God. Its only recently that the word has been corrupted to mean Christian RWNJs.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)that goes back to the "First Great Awakening" (and to John Wesley).
secondwind
(16,903 posts)we believe in LIVE AND LET LIVE. we embrace those beautiful n the LGBT 🏳️?🌈 community, and we respect other religions.
Evangelicals have a mandate. They are obliged to convert. I wouldnt want one 100 feet near me.
brush
(53,778 posts)Brainstormy
(2,380 posts)DinahMoeHum
(21,788 posts)n/t
Aristus
(66,369 posts)I don't want those feeble-minded fanatics anywhere near our party!
Wounded Bear
(58,656 posts)Their natural inclination is to take over everything and turn it into a church.
Ain't going there.
atreides1
(16,079 posts)So, you want to placate the abortion people? Did it ever occur to you that those very same "abortion people" are also anti-LGBT...do you want to placate them on that topic, too?
Evangelicals are not like the Mennonites in any way, shape, or form...Evangelicals that follow Trump don't have the values you'd find in street corner drug dealer...they're in it for power and control over people's lives, and nothing less then that will please them!!!
I'd rather see them become so irrelevant that they go and live in caves and do what the original Shakers did!!!
MineralMan
(146,308 posts)hatrack
(59,587 posts).
pwb
(11,265 posts)Fake Christians. It would be better for us if they break off from the pukes and start their own party.
lark
(23,099 posts)You can't throw women under the bus to win elections as a Democrat. That is why Evangelicals are Republican, they are ok with racist and misogynistic behavior. Now, some Evangelicals are breaking away from drumpf and talking bad about him from their pulpits, as they should, but unfortunately not enough truly care about Godly values and that drumpf violates every tenet in the Bible. They may not be Democrats, but I hope some of these will not support criminal assaulter and fraud drumpf, or people of his ilk, in the future.
spanone
(135,832 posts)hexola
(4,835 posts)But then, across the parking lot, deep in conservative, Bible-belt Texas, she spotted a sign of support: the same exact sticker endorsing Beto ORourke, the Democrat who is challenging Senator Ted Cruz.
I was like, who is it? she exclaimed. Who in this church is doing this?
Listening to Ms. Mooneys story, the four other evangelical moms standing around a kitchen island began to buzz with excitement. All of them go to similarly conservative churches in Dallas. All are longtime Republican voters, solely because they oppose abortion rights. Only one broke ranks to vote for Hillary Clinton in 2016. But this November, they have all decided to vote for Mr. ORourke, the Democratic upstart who is on the front line of trying to upend politics in deep-red Texas.
violetpastille
(1,483 posts)I don't get it, but the Evangelicals I know are extremely intolerant of swearing. They think it's about the worst thing you can do.
(shrug)
MrsCoffee
(5,801 posts)crazycatlady
(4,492 posts)A movement that is known for embracing the patriarchy and policing women's bodies has no place in the Democratic party.
LAS14
(13,783 posts)... oriented to social justice. After all, that's where Jesus takes you if you're a follower.
https://sojo.net/
I do get tired of the tendency to identify "evangelical" with "right wing." It's no more true than any stereotype.
hexola
(4,835 posts)Thank you for that link.
I think Nationalism has colored the Evangelical movement for decades...time to extricate them.
Mariana
(14,857 posts)More than 80% of white Evangelicals voters cast their ballots for Trump. Are we supposed to pretend that didn't happen? Most of them would enthusiastically vote for him again if given the chance. Are we supposed to pretend that isn't true? Why? How exactly does denial of reality accomplish anything?
CrispyQ
(36,464 posts)Let the right keep them & figure out how to get all of their deplorables to play nice. The dems need to make sure that everyone who voted in 2018 votes again in 2020 & we need to get more non-voters engaged in the process. Those are the voters we need to appeal to, not the religious nut whack jobs.
YessirAtsaFact
(2,064 posts)The only way we get their votes is to convince them that addressing issues like climate change is important enough to overlook differences in gay rights and abortion.
That sounds hopeless but there are anecdotes where evangelicals changed their minds based on the gravity of our environmental problems
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)The depth of shameful ignorance displayed here is shocking.
The Democratic Party has always been the political home for many LIBERAL evangelical Christians, along with liberals from every other religious group in America.
As for the OP, there is no chance of that happening for the foreseeable future, if ever. For good and bad, the political alignments of parties are no longer mostly geographic but based on the same personality factors seen in most spousal and friend choices: liberal or conservative, further differentiated along mild, firm, strong, hard-core, extremist lines. The Democratic Party is the liberal-dominated party.
Btw, roughly a quarter of all Democrats are anti-abortion. Something like 36% of Republicans are pro-abortion. Majorities rule in both parties on this big issue.
LAS14
(13,783 posts)... as a party that rejects bigotry, but the bigotry toward evangelical Christians, and, indeed toward all Christians, is appalling.
Here is a link to a website for evangelicals who are oriented toward social justice.
https://sojo.net/
hexola
(4,835 posts)but can still represent the evangelical flock.
As a liberal Christian Im sick of being told Im an idiot by my fellow liberals. Thats a topic for another day.
FSogol
(45,485 posts)hexola
(4,835 posts)FSogol
(45,485 posts)that they were some kind of a left-wing socialist group.
SDJay
(1,089 posts)You mention abortion, but what about the fact that many of them also hate, and I mean HATE:
Gay folks
Women
Brown people
Non-Americans
Poor people
Sick people
This is the most exclusionary, bigoted group in our culture IMO. How in the world does that fit into a party built on acceptance and inclusion? Tolerating intolerance is not tolerance - it's enabling.
lilactime
(657 posts)Horse with no Name
(33,956 posts)They worship mammon. They are not redeemable.
They should stay the fuck away.
Autumn
(45,084 posts)And I'm an active Christian.
Self-professed have been trained to equate Democrats w/the devil and Republicans w/God.
It's completely crazy and Bizarro World logic, but that's what these people believe.
No changing that.
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)cally
(21,593 posts)and supporting the patriarchy. Abortion is just the hook.
octoberlib
(14,971 posts)Last edited Fri Dec 7, 2018, 02:43 PM - Edit history (1)
are one reason they're so radical.
hexola
(4,835 posts)We need to split the Nationalists from the Evangelicals...without Nationalism coloring their beliefs - it might look a little different.
octoberlib
(14,971 posts)I highly recommend reading One Nation Under God by Kevin Kruse for more reasons why this can never be.
Me.
(35,454 posts)Not interested in them doing the same to ours...not to mention what a bunch of hypocrites they are.
Iggo
(47,552 posts)If they were our base, what do you think our Dems would fight for?
Yep. That's right.
No fucking thank you.
MineralMan
(146,308 posts)Aside from opposing reproductive choice, they are anti-LGBTQ, often are racists, misogynists and antisemites. That is absolutely the worst idea I've heard on DU for a very, very long time.
JenniferJuniper
(4,512 posts)LAS14
(13,783 posts)... take the trouble to post thoughtful ideas. Please read responses 29 and 32.
JenniferJuniper
(4,512 posts)Most are horrible people. Racist, sexist, homophobic, narcissistic.
Lie down with dogs - wake up with fleas.
dchill
(38,493 posts)dalton99a
(81,488 posts)Johnny2X2X
(19,066 posts)No place in the Democratic party for them. Now, the Christians who follow the teachings of Jesus are either already Democrats or would be at home in the Party. Dems need to reclaim Christianity, Jesus's teaching align with the Democratic Party far far more than the Republican Party.
bigbrother05
(5,995 posts)Most Protestant denominations are nominally Evangelical, but many aren't Fundamentalist in nature.
Methodists have tended to be socially liberal, but some elements have made attempts to swing them to the right in recent years. There is an ongoing tension between the two directions over gay rights and pro-choice.
Episcopalians have had similar turmoil and well as other mainstream Protestant groups.
octoberlib
(14,971 posts)of NC09 fraud fame. Harris is of the RW fundamentalist variety but there is a liberal Baptist seminary located at Wake Forest, NC. There's been a war between them and so far the fundamentalists are winning, possibly because they believe the ends justify the means and are willing to to anything to achieve their goals.
Thunderbeast
(3,411 posts)Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)Stop trying to win the enemy over. You're not going to. There's tens of millions of people in this country that don't vote. Win them over. It's not rocket science.
They are all-in with the Republicans. They love the punitive aspect of that party.
jrthin
(4,836 posts)Are_grits_groceries
(17,111 posts)I dont want them unless they are the few who have opposed Trump.
If another unethical loon comes along who they think will help them, they will be gone in a second.
THEY CAN ALL GO TO HELL!
Blaukraut
(5,693 posts)dalton99a
(81,488 posts)Different Drummer
(7,615 posts)stopbush
(24,396 posts)Why muck it up with a bunch of people whose main anchor in life is complete fantasy?
Mr. Quackers
(443 posts)let them sit at the left hoof of Satan, perishing in lamentation, suffering the same torment their belief system promised to supposed "sinners."
dalton99a
(81,488 posts)Caliman73
(11,738 posts)There is a place for religious people in the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party has no particular problem with the free expression of religious faith insomuch as the rights of non religious people and other faith traditions are respected. Democrats have never been against religion.
The problem with "Evangelicals" (I use quotes because the modern strain being called Evangelicals is more Christian Dominionist) is that they seek only to have their particular beliefs made dominant over anything else and that cannot happen within the framework of the Democratic Party. We are the party of inclusion and thus groups whose focus is on conversion or exclusion and domination cannot exist within out political framework.
Any person, even if deeply religious can come over to the Democratic Party freely, but when they start trying to change the way Democrats operate towards a less open and accepting standpoint, there are going to be problems.
33taw
(2,442 posts)I thought they abstained from taking political stances? I could be mistaken.
LeftInTX
(25,335 posts)Mennonites that I knew voted. But they were more "earth mother" types than religious.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,693 posts)because too many of them have been brainwashed over the last 30 years to believe the Democratic Party is the tool of Satan. It's not just abortion - it's feminism, LGBT issues, just about anything having to do with sex, guns, environmental issues (climate change isn't really a thing and if it is God will fix it anyhow), and an authoritarian-follower mindset that just isn't compatible with liberal values. Of course there are many liberal Christians but the fundamentalists (maybe a more accurate label than "evangelical," which can have a very broad meaning) won't want to be Democrats, and we probably don't want them anyhow.
spicysista
(1,663 posts)The term "Evangelical" is not synonymous with RWNJ. Most black evangelicals are already longtime party supporters. Hispanic evangelicals don't typically support republicans, either. Evangelicals, like most groups, are not a monolith.
From a previous post:
According to 538, 5 % of black evangelicals identify as republican. This stands in stark contrast with the fact that 49% of white evangelicals identify as republican. The Democratic Party continues to enjoy overwhelming support from the full diaspora of the black community. This includes 69% among black evangelicals. Interestingly, Hispanic evangelicals lean more independent.
dalton99a
(81,488 posts)spicysista
(1,663 posts)The white washing of certain groups...."working class", "evangelicals", "middle country", "Appalachia", well....the Appalachian region is pretty white.
It all sets the tone for how topics are discussed. The way this happens, here and on other platforms, matters. It effects everything from the sorts of guests that appear on shows to discuss topics, where/how money is allocated towards outreach efforts, and even where candidates visit. How we frame things matter.
Mariana
(14,857 posts)That's just a fact. There are various groups of Christians who mostly supported Clinton, but the right wing Republican Christian voters are still numerous enough to make up the majority of the whole. Pretending this isn't true doesn't accomplish anything.
spicysista
(1,663 posts)Most people running as democrats identify as such. Most black and brown evangelicals already support democrats. These are just facts. My point is that we need to be more specific about which groups we do or do not want on our tent.
Do you disagree with the facts presented in my posts?
Mariana
(14,857 posts)How do we use that information to get more Christians to vote for Democrats?
spicysista
(1,663 posts)Our party values speak loud enough to traditional Christian values (tending the sick, feeding the hungry, taking care of children and empathizing with those who are hurting, etc.). Those single issue voters that place the value of a fetus over those that breathe aren't coming to our side anyways. We should try to focus on reminding them of the universal good for which we stand. You can check out the work being done by Rev. Barber. It's a republican's worst nightmare..... people of all faiths, gays, atheists, working class, all races and ethnicities working together to expand healthcare, better wages, and education.
KPN
(15,645 posts)Democratic Party are already Democrats. The rest are evil or submissive to power.
Paladin
(28,257 posts)Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)They must be crushed. Such primitive brutes only understand such force.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,316 posts)It means they'll be extra-sure to support only politicians who will outlaw abortion, now that the Supreme Court may let them. And who will appoint anti-abortion judges, just in case.
But it won't stop there. They demand politicians are anti-LGBT as well. That's why Trump is so shitty for LGBT rights. He isn't personally homophobic, but he's happy to throw LGBT under the bus to get money and votes.
If you want to understand the politics of evangelicals, and how it shapes their rules on who gets to call themselves 'evangelical' (it's not about religious beliefs any more), I recommend reading Fred Clark's Slacktivist blog. He grew up as an evangelical, and he's still a faithful Christian, but he's a liberal. He's pointed out how, for instance, the evangelical political movement was started in the 70s to enable effective segregation in private schools, and only grabbed on to abortion as a convenient rallying point to make them look like they had a 'moral' purpose.
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/category/evangelicals/
eissa
(4,238 posts)and nothing -- NOTHING -- could make me walk away from the party faster than adopting the religious nutjobs. HELL NO. I value secular society, and am not willing to compromise women's rights for those hypocrites.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)There's no chance the Democratic Party is going to adopt religious views as a party, though, and neither of us are going to have to walk. The OP might have as well have asked if we shouldn't learn to fly so people will want to join us.
But fwiw, the Democratic Party has always had many at least somewhat to very religious members, but the views of most overlap strongly with those of most other Democrats. 55% recently told Pew they absolutely believed in god (62% of unaffiliated, 73% of pubs). I'm among the 13% of Dems who do not.
Btw, also according to Pew, 24% of Democrats are ANTI-abortion and 36% of Republicans are PRO-abortion. Members of both parties pay strong attention to this big issue, so the majorities define formal party positions.
Vinca
(50,271 posts)of Jesus, but they're more like a bunch of greedy, self serving, money-loving hogs and that's why they worship the Orange Atrocity. Oh . . . and they hate the gays, too.
Hekate
(90,686 posts)"The abortion people"? Really?
meadowlander
(4,395 posts)It's not just abortion. They don't even support legal birth control.
Evangelicals don't adopt kids from foreign countries out of a sense of openness. They do it so they can raise them as good Christian Americans, saving them from the ignorant swamp of their own culture and earn afterlife brownie points.
MineralMan
(146,308 posts)Instead, let's invite people into our party who believe in our political platform, regardless of their religious beliefs.
If you would restrict a woman's right to manage her own reproductive choices, you do not belong in the Democratic Party.
Neither do you if you discriminate against LGBTQ people.
Nor do you if you espouse any form of racism.
Nor are misogynists of any variety welcome into the Democratic Party.
Not antisemites, either.
If you oppose labor unions, you are also not welcome.
If you think that people who need society's assistant should just "get a job," then we're not interested.
If you believe that people of other religions than your or of no religion at all are second-class citizens, just go away.
It is not religion that matters. It is the platform of the party. If you do not agree with that, we are the wrong party for you.
spicysista
(1,663 posts)All the pluses and up-votes to you.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,693 posts)A Venn diagram of fundamentalist Christians and people who hold the opinions listed by MM would show a lot of overlap, but the issue isn't religious beliefs but political ones. Democrats can try to persuade people willing to accept its party platform regardless of what church they go to, but chances are there won't be a lot of takers among the fundies. Directing a lot of effort specifically at that group probably won't yield much bang for the buck.
Runningdawg
(4,516 posts)Time to pack it in, bug out to the shack in the woods and if necessary, make a final stand.
rampartc
(5,407 posts)no republican anywhere could win an election without them, but the price is far too high.
the culture war, from abortion to creationism and every wild idea in between are non negotiable with that bunch.
LeftInTX
(25,335 posts)This is South TX, so the relation to PA isn't there. They became Mennonites based on environmental/sustainable lifestyle.
Devil Child
(2,728 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
randr
(12,412 posts)If Democrats embrace Evangelicals I'm outta here.
By the way, I do not think Mennonites think of themselves as Evangelicals.
bluecollar2
(3,622 posts)GWC58
(2,678 posts)A). Abortion
B). LGBTQ
C). Cannabis legalization
Evangelicals are against all three, hard against all three. And I say Good, stay the HELL out of the Democratic Party.
0rganism
(23,954 posts)there will always be another "hitch" for them
by the time Democrats smooth out all those "hitches" there won't be room for progressives in the party.
sarcasmo
(23,968 posts)Quixote1818
(28,936 posts)In 10 or so years they may not even be a factor to worry about.