By telling all he knows to Mueller. I also think the way the prosecutors are linking 45 to Cohen's crimes makes it difficult for 45 to pardon (not that he will now) Cohen. He would almost be pardoning himself, which we know there are mixed opinions about.

It will be interesting if they do the same thing when junior gets indicted.

You have to think that as these things start to pile up, 45 has to cut a deal to get out from under it.

Now the question is how far into this is Pence?

What if Pence is as guilty as Trump?

Can they both be impeached at the same time?

The GOP mob really went off the deep end with individual 1 and his crew.

Guilty by association? hmmmmmm.

the Pence-Manafort-Flynn connection is not by coincidence.

We will soon find out why manafort was so insistent that pence become VP; that information is likely to put pence behind the proverbial eight ball.

at the same time will that make 3rd in line Speaker of the House Pelosi the President ? Wouldn't that be a grand ending to this debacle.

Especially if she appoints another woman as her VP...

However, if everything becomes so clear impeachment of both is needed, they will probably follow the example of Nixon being impeached after Agnew was replaced or muddle through until the 2020 election determines the choice of the people.

If it is clear both are corrupt, the Republicans may even primary him to try to get past this earlier and potentially even win.

regardless of what the republicans think, there is a clear line of succession in the constitution. And as crazy as some of right wing nuts that are on the currently on the supreme court, I think roberts will step in and swear her in.

I think this would happen for two reasons, 1) avoiding the possibility of not having a president of the U.S for any length of time. 2) given putin's perchance for obstruction and obviously helping throwthe 2016 election, roberts would see putin as a grave and serious threat to us during the time of a presidential vacancy.

If that does not happen, which is the case if the Senate fails to vote for impeachment, there is no gap.

The ONLY way I can see the Republicans in the Senate voting for impeachment is if they see that they themselves will be harmed politically by voting against it. If they are, in reality, voting to put a Democrat in as President, THAT would be something that would lead to a primary challange for certain. How many profiles in courage have you seen on the Republican side of the Senate recently?

I do know that the Russian interference does make the comment that Republicans in charge was the will of the people - and the popular vote went the other way. However, with the Republican base, that will not resonate well.

Nixon craftily appointed Gerald Ford as the new VP, Agnew's replacement. His reasoning was that Congress wouldn't impeach him, knowing that Ford would then step up to be POTUS. (Who would ever want Ford as President? was his thought.) So of course it all backfired because the Senate considered Jerry Ford as one of their own, likable and trustworthy if not in intellect. The Senate were fine with it and had every intention of impeaching and convicting Nixon.

The Trump-Pence scenario has no precedent in American history. We're venturing into Banana Republic twilight zone.

In fact, thanks to listening to the excellent Rachel Maddow, "Bagman", the fact is the country faced a similar dilemma. While Nixon was being investigated very publicly, there was a far less public investigation of Agnew for corruption going back years and continuing into the WH. Eliott Richardson worked out the deal where Agnew avoided substantial charges (and likely years in jail) in return for his resignation. Everything was coreographed down to his resignation letter being accepted by the SoS simultaneously with his entrance into court. About a week later, Eliott Richardson was fired in Saturday Night Massacre.

As to Ford, he was a relatively bland, scandal free House minority leader. Rather than being picked because he might deter people from removing Nixon, it was more likely that he was relatively unobjectable. (It is more polarized today, but consider who could be confirmed if more than a simple majority is needed now.)

Obviously, the two times are not the same. The Agnew offenses were disjoint from the Nixon ones. However, consider that Mueller is very much moving up the chain in his investigation. The question will be if there enough that is found on Pence that he would have to similarly resign. (Just being the one recommended by Manaford is not enough, nor is lying to the media.)

to convict. But, oh, what magnificent karma that would be!

So Pence was in on everything that went on during the Transition. That means who talked with who, meetimgs, selecting people to staff the White House, recommendations for Cabinet positions, etc. He is lying if he says he did not know this or that.

It remains to be seen if that could be proved. I would venture that Pence probably was aware, but remained "uninformed" of the particulars as smart self preservation. Much like the Bridge Closing Governor.

Christie was involved in the details of the transition, he already had people he wanted, and was starting to muck up Trump's plans. All Pence had to do was stay out certain things or play dumb. If he did know, he probably knew it would be best for him if he pretended he didn't to preserve plausible deniability.

and that would be the things Mueller wants to keep secret until he’s ready to make it public.

No one will save him? How about Republican Senators? They might save him. And the House Republicans. And the Trumper base. The people are lined up, ready to save a treasonous President.

Will the Democrats in the House move to DO something about removing him from office? Already there are Democrats fearing making a move, since it may hurt the Democrats politically.

So..how do you see this playing out?

Last edited Sun Dec 9, 2018, 12:46 AM - Edit history (2)

over MSNBC and CNN, there was little speculation as to how this would play out. I'm old enough to remember Watergate, and it was pretty clear from the Congressional committee hearings that Nixon was in a shitload of hot water and would be out one way or another. Of course those were the days when there were still some Republicans who believed in the rule of law and applied the pressure to force his resignation.

If Pelosi signals that impeachment is off the table, what next? We simply put up with a recognized felon in the White House for two years? He'll never go voluntarily and the Republicans will stand behind hm no matter what, so, yeah, our options appear to be limited.

that means we let a Russian criminal stay in control of the country? Doesn't that make us complicit? Why bother doing an investigation, if no one does anything about the crimes it unearths?

The House has no choice but to do something. They have to try.

But let's see what the report says. And the House may do its own investigation. A real one this time.

When Trump said "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters," I thought to myself that he must have done something similar. Perhaps he had Cohen get a contract-for-murder, and he had someone shot under circumstances that people would say "Trump benefits from this, and I bet Trump had that done" but there would be no visible connections.

So, look it looks like this -- maybe Cohen should go away for a long time. I wish, however, that he would take Trump with him.

and only cooperated up to a point with the Southern District of New York. I heard on tv that the SDNY requires that a perp not just cooperate with the charges against him, but must volunteer information about all crimes he knows about, both his and others. That last part is maybe what he wouldn't do (the Mueller investigation had no such requirement; only the cooperation for its investigation).

For Cohen to risk a long prison sentence, he must have done some really bad things, enough to land in prison for a really long time, or things he doesn't want people to know he did (shameful or shocking), or the others he could report on are so dangerous that he'd be killed. Something that's worse than a long stretch in prison for not ratting further.

and a dozen people can do a lot of damage

plus maniforts boy Pence is just as bad. But at least it should keep him from another term, should, but nothing would surprise me.